I hear you, understand you and appreciate the clear way in which you
explain the matter.

I would not have made the statement had I not out of the blue, whilst
leading a normal and ordinary life, without any zazen or meditation or
spiritual practices or medications or thoughts of enlightenment,
experienced a non-ordinary state that lasted six days.

This experience, which I prefer not to discuss, was never repeated, and
is the basis of any 'faith' I may possess in the potential for
realization of Buddha nature.


--- In, <billsm...@...> wrote:
> I want to expand a little on one of my answers below to avoid
> misunderstandingÂ…

> The posting exchange was:

> [Anthony] But we can try to use our finger to point to the Moon.

> [Ed] In the final analysis one must just have faith in the reality of
'Buddha mind', yes?

> [Bill!] Yes!

> My answer Yes!, that you do have to have faith in Buddha Mind is meant
> the period BEFORE you experience Buddha Mind/Nature for yourself.
> that it is experience, not faith.
> I often use the word 'zen' as short for 'zen practice', and when I do
> don't distinguish between the phases of zen practice. There are 2
> phases: one before experiencing Buddha Nature and one after. There is
> an 'transition phase', especially in Rinzai (See, I spelled it right
> time!) Zen Buddhism koan study, where the experience of Buddha Nature
> often so sudden that it takes a period of follow-on training to
> reconcile and integrate that experience into your everyday life.
> It is not unheard of to divide zen practice into phases like this.
Take for
> example the 10 (or 8) Ox Herding phases. These are an excellent
> of the phases one may go through from first wanting a change in your
> and having FAITH that you can somehow do that (#1 Seeking the Ox), to
> enlightenment, complete integration (#10 Entering the Marketplace With
> Hanging Loose) - no faith involved here.
> You can find this set all over the web. One such place is at
> Â…Bill!

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