Bill,
 
They are my words. It is now clear that you are part of the sect that follows 
Asanga that insists everything is illusion. If that is the case, the 'THIS' of 
'just this' is also an illusion. What else remains?
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 7/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Reality in Buddhism not necessarily illusory
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 11:30 AM


  



Ed,

To answer your question below: " Bill's position on illusory objects of mind is 
known. I don't know his on mind itself. I think he thinks mind exists. 
Otherwise, with what does he experience things?

If by 'mind' you mean the mind that thinks, discriminates, creates dualisms, 
etc..., then I believe that it is illusory. It 'exists' as an illusion only. It 
can fade-in and fade-out. It's not real.

'You' do not experience 'things'. This is classic dualism. This is a 
discriminating mind illusion. As soon as you create a 'you', you create an 
'other' or 'things'. This dualistic split allows you to create a subject/object 
relationship. 'You' are the subject and 'things' are the objects, and 
'experience' is the relationship between subject and object. And after that you 
can do all kinds of discriminations like declare the 'thing' good or bad, near 
or far, give it a name, a color, a value, etc...

Zen encourages you to STOP all of this. Just experience. Only experience. No 
'you', no 'things' - Just THIS!.

Kabeesh?

...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Anthony Wu
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 5:37 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Reality in Buddhism not necessarily illusory

ED,

When Asanga founded the philosophy of Mind Only, he said the objects of mind 
(which you perceive) exist (i.e. not illusory). Then his followers developed 
into different sects. Some say both mind and its objects exist. Others insist 
that the objects are illusions. Even the mind itself is illusory. Bill's 
position on illusory objects of mind is known. I don't know his on mind itself. 
I think he thinks mind exists. Otherwise, with what does he experience things?

Anthony

--- On Sat, 6/11/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Reality in Buddhism not necessarily illusory
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 6 November, 2010, 9:32 PM


Bill,
That's your position, and I honor and respect it.
"You must understand that a perspective on life that is derived from an inner 
experience is different from one that is arrived at intellectually." 
--Kobori-Roshi (1918-1992)
"Taste as much of this as you can. Swallow what you need and spit out the 
rest." -- Taizan Maezumi-Roshi (1931-1995) (To his disciples with regard to 
importing Japanese Zen Teachings into the West.)
I say "Yes" to both Teachers.
--ED

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>
> Ed,
> 
> Everything you think about is illusory. Illusions are illusory.
> Interpretations are illusory. Doctrines are illusory. Philosophical
> traditions are illusory.
> 
> Everything you experience is reality. Reality is not illusory.
> 
> …Bill!


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