Bill,

Ye, I noticed. (When the student is ready, the teachings which were
always around him become visible.) Thank you for your patient guidance.

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>
Ed,

Yes, the attempt at communication using words and sentence fragments
that do
not themselves reflect dualisms (subject/object) is customary in zen.
It's
closer to poetry than prose. I picked it up when going through koan
study.
If you response to your teacher is verbal, it is usually rejected if it
is
too dualistic in form. Many times responses are non-verbal, like
[bow]-[turn around]-[walk away].

I sometimes refer to two different kinds of communication: 'zen talk'
and
'talk about zen'. Most of my posts are 'talk about zen', and not a
direct
expression of zen. This post is 'talk about zen'. The second half of my
response below is an attempt at 'zen talk'.

...Bill!



Bill,
Nice succinct answer.
And, question:  Your zen-like statement in ungrammatical, without
subject or
object. Is this a zen tradition of speaking, with a view to training the
mind out of its customary dualistic mode of experiencing reality?
Thank you, ED




Mayka and Ed,

Or perhaps Bill! would say: 'No effort, no judgment, no grasping, no
pushing-away, no concepts - Just THIS!

...Bill!


Mayka,
Or perhaps as Bill might say:  Whatever is happening, the practicing
zenist's mind's effort is always directed toward remaining calm, alert
and
aware in the here and now, in the state of 'just THIS', and as much as
possible without judgment, grasping, pushing away, conception-formation
or
comment.
--ED



> ED:
>
> In real life and face to face with people in the arena of zen there
are no
women or men but just practicioners who sit down together and practice
together.  There is not as much chatting but all activities are made in
minfulness.
>
> Mayka


> Mayka,
> You describe situations, preferences, choices and challenges thatÂ
every
human encounters in interactions with other humans in the normal course
of
life.
> The crucial question is: With what sort of mind does a zenist greet
them
all?
> --ED


> Chris, ED and all:
>
> To me is not a question about men or women but human beings.  There
are
times I don't get on with certain type of men and there are times I find
difficult to get on with certain type of women.  There are very
competitive
men and there are very competitive women but there are also all those to
whom value the most the quality contact they have with other human
beings
regardless they are men or women.  In real life I also have some male
friend to whom first encounter was a disaster and then after some
disagrements and fights become very close friends. There is no
difference
here for as long as the person in front of us is of the same wave of
thinking.
>
> Mayka



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