ED, One small point: The concept of self makes the ILLUSORY world go round, and in going round brings rise to all of the items you listed below.
The real world goes around just fine, in fact I think a lot better, without the concept of self. Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 6:20 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] New Member Bill, We are in agreement. One small point: The 'concept' of self makes the world go round - for better and for worse - and calling it 'illusory' does not detract from its overwhelmingly stupendous power in the world. My position on Zen is: It has been very precious to me. My belief is that Zazen would benefit almost anyone, and so I recommend it highly to anyone who has chosen to pursue this path. Study of some of the Buddha's basic teachings (to be found in the Theravadin texts) is highly recommended, as doing so can enhance the quality of ones' Zazen and hasten its effectivenes. The above is basic. To fulfill the list below requires a lot more - and a lot more discussion. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote: > > ED, > > I started to respond to each of your points below one-by-one, but soon > discovered all the responses were essentially the same: Zazen, the > realization of Buddha Nature and zen practice are not done for the purpose > of doing any of the things you list below, all of which are qualities of the > illusory concept of self. Zazen, the realization of Buddha Nature and zen > practice are done to rid yourself of illusions and most particularly the > illusion of self. > > So I guess I agree with you in a round-about, back-door way. If your goal > is to work on or obtain any of the qualities you list below, then zazen, the > realization of Buddha Nature and zen practice are probably not the way to go > about that. > > ...Bill! > Bill, > Sitting can calm the mind and make it more receptive to the Teachings (of > the Buddha); and living by these Teachings will drastically curtail the > creation of new turmoil in the mind. > It is not at all clear whether realizing Buddha Nature can augment one's > psychological/emotional/relational smarts significantly, unless supplemented > with mental health counseling - and then only perhaps. > Nor will it necessarily rectify personality disorders. > Nor does it guarantee deeper psychological insight into human or group > behaviors. > Nor does it necessarily strip one of the religio-cultural fakery that almost > always becomes part and parcel of one's stance in life. > Nor does it necessarily enhance understanding of normal and natural > human and human group behavior. > Nor does it ever completely neutralize the pull of the triple cardinal > attractors: Wealth, sex and power. > Nor does it necessarily enhance one's ethical insights and behaviors. > Nor those it ever squash the ego, but possibly only refines it. > --ED > PS1: Please do not view the above statement as 'ex cathedra' utterances, but > as statements to initiate the discussion of alternative perspectives and > undertandings on these matters. > PS2: The ordinary human life is a non-attainment of the above goals. > > Chris, > > Keep sitting for all our sakes. > > ...Bill! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5662 (20101130) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5662 (20101130) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/