We are in agreement.

One small point: The 'concept' of self makes the world go round - for
better and for worse - and calling  it 'illusory' does not detract from
its overwhelmingly stupendous power in the world.

My position on Zen is: It has been very precious to me. My belief is
that Zazen would benefit almost anyone, and so I recommend it highly to
anyone who has chosen to pursue this path.

Study of some of the Buddha's basic teachings (to be found in the
Theravadin texts) is highly recommended, as doing so can enhance the
quality of ones' Zazen and hasten its effectivenes.

The above is basic.

To fulfill the list below requires a lot more - and a lot more


--- In, <billsm...@...> wrote:
> ED,
> I started to respond to each of your points below one-by-one, but soon
> discovered all the responses were essentially the same: Zazen, the
> realization of Buddha Nature and zen practice are not done for the
> of doing any of the things you list below, all of which are qualities
of the
> illusory concept of self. Zazen, the realization of Buddha Nature and
> practice are done to rid yourself of illusions and most particularly
> illusion of self.
> So I guess I agree with you in a round-about, back-door way. If your
> is to work on or obtain any of the qualities you list below, then
zazen, the
> realization of Buddha Nature and zen practice are probably not the way
to go
> about that.
> ...Bill!

> Bill,

> Sitting can calm the mind and make it more receptive to the Teachings
> the Buddha); and living by these Teachings will drastically curtail
> creation of new turmoil in the mind.

> It is not at all clear whether realizing Buddha Nature can augment
> psychological/emotional/relational smarts significantly, unless
> with mental health counseling - and then only perhaps.

> Nor will it necessarily rectify personality disorders.

> Nor does it guarantee deeper psychological insight into human or group
> behaviors.

> Nor does it necessarily strip one of the religio-cultural fakery that
> always becomes part and parcel of one's stance in life.

> Nor does it necessarily enhance understanding of normal and natural
> human and human group behavior.

> Nor does it ever completely neutralize the pull of the triple cardinal
> attractors: Wealth, sex and power.

> Nor does it necessarily enhance one's ethical insights and behaviors.

> Nor those it ever squash the ego, but possibly only refines it.

> --ED

> PS1: Please do not view the above statement as 'ex cathedra'
utterances, but
> as statements to initiate the discussion of alternative perspectives
> undertandings on these matters.

> PS2: The ordinary human life is a non-attainment of the above goals.

> > Chris,
> > Keep sitting for all our sakes.
> > ...Bill!

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