Hi, Anthony

We are not here for judging, at least myself.
Eons are not that long when you have ethernity, besides.

If my memory serves me well, the next expected Tirtankara for jainists, to be 
expected after a loooooooooooonnnggg time, is now in the worst hell.

For your last question, as I said, I could parrot what I read. But I do not 
know. Just wait till we get this state.
We can not talk about a thing that by definition is not expresable in words 
because it trascendts duality.
I beg your pardon to not be of help

With best wishes


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anthony Wu 
  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Zen] New Member


        It will take eons and a lot of punishments, either by law or by karma, 
for a Taleban to get enlightened.

        ED's original question is: what happens after realizing Buddha nature? 
Will there be profound, fundamental changes, or just business as usual?


        --- On Tue, 30/11/10, Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es> wrote:

          From: Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es>
          Subject: Re: [Zen] New Member
          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010, 6:29 AM

          Hi, Anthony

          It will be very well Mahayana, but I have always read that we will be 
not complete till the last sentient being would not be enlightened.

          Any change is a change,
          If for good, each time, a little better.
          Maybe too naïf.

          Just listening to Metta Chant (along with some Shiv mantra)
          And remembering what I read in a Jain book: even non believers, not 
specially easy to get enlightnement, even the less likely to get enlightement, 
they get. 

          With best whises

            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Anthony Wu 
            To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
            Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 11:22 PM
            Subject: Re: [Zen] New Member

                  Nor does it change human nature on greed, aversion and 
delusion that lead to killing, lying, robbing and raping?


                  --- On Mon, 29/11/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote:

                    From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Zen] New Member
                    To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, 29 November, 2010, 10:12 PM


                    Sitting can calm the mind and make it more receptive to the 
Teachings (of the Buddha); and living by these Teachings will drastically 
curtail the creation of new turmoil in the mind.
                    It is not at all clear whether realizing Buddha Nature can 
augment one's psychological/emotional/relational smarts significantly, unless 
supplemented with mental health counseling - and then only perhaps.
                    Nor will it necessarily rectify personality disorders.
                    Nor does it guarantee deeper psychological insight into 
human or group behaviors.
                    Nor does it necessarily strip one of the religio-cultural 
fakery that almost always becomes part and parcel of one's stance in life.
                    Nor does it necessarily enhance understanding of normal and 
natural human and human group behavior.
                    Nor does it ever completely neutralize the pull of the 
triple cardinal attractors: Wealth, sex and power.
                    Nor does it necessarily enhance one's ethical insights and 
                    Nor those it ever squash the ego, but possibly only refines 
                    PS1: Please do not view the above statement as 'ex 
cathedra' utterances, but as statements to initiate the discussion of 
alternative perspectives and undertandings on these matters. 
                    PS2: The ordinary human life is a non-attainment of the 
above goals.

                    --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
                    > Chris,
                    > Keep sitting for all our sakes. 
                    > ...Bill!



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