--- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > So, ED, it sounds like for you a path of social service or of engaged
> > compassion would be more appealing than a path of meditation. That
> seems
> > fine.
>
> I said was unimpresed by a person's enlightenment, if it does not push
> him toward devoting his energies to the benefit of humanity and Gaia.
>
> One of the Zen teachers in my locality together with a group of
> practitioners visits prisons and establishes meditation groups.
>
>
>
> > Zen advertises itself as being of no merit, no goal, and it does
> indeed seem
> > to meet that promise. If zen underwhelms you, do not pursue it.
>
> I am not at all underwhelmed by Zen; I am delighted with it.
>
> I am underwhelmed by those who become enlightened and whose enormous
> expenditures of time and energy have little to show in terms of benefit
> to humankind and Gaia.
>
> Zen was my first love and is still one of my great loves. I pursue it
> because for me it assisted/assists the process of cutting through
> confusion, and in centering the mind.
>
>
> > If the mere idea of the zennists doing this practise and finding
> something
> > to enjoy offends you, ...
>
> Au contraire, if a person does Shikantaza because he enjoys doing
> Shikantaza, I would call him a natural and normal human being seeking
> joy, pleasure and satisfaction.
>
Hey ED. I find it amusing that you should endlessly bandy back and forth this
question of why one should or should not practice Zen. It
makes me think of a fruit ripening on a branch discussing endlessly
with other fruit about whether or not fruit should ripen. You really
believe that you as a separate, independant agent just decided one
fine day to take up Zen. You really believe that you are doing it,
don't you? You imagine that you are The First Cause of all of your
actions. The philosopher Schopenhauer noted that we can certainly
do what we want, but what we want is already there before we choose.
I assume that you have actually practiced zazen. You must have noticed that
there is no "you" choosing for thoughts to arise. They just do. You may have
also noticed that there is no "you" choosing
intentional impulses to arise. They just do. You did not choose Zen,
Zen chose you, imo. The fruit ripens and falls off the branch and
then says, "I meant to do that, and I could have chosen not to!"
Now, you may say that, although you don't choose thoughts and intentional
impulses to arise, you do choose which one's to endorse.
But this endorsement, itself, is an impulse that arises in reaction
to the other impulse. It is an infinite regress! A devout Buddhist
might say that it is the chain of Dependant Origination. But, as
Nisargadhatta pointed out, the universal web of cause and effect is
so vast and intricately interwoven that one may as well just say that
everything causes everything. Ultimately, in my opinion, "It" is doing it, in
the sense that, through all this "It" becomes aware
of "Itself". This is what the Mahaparanirvana Sutra calls the Great
Self. (Yes, I KNOW that Buddhists hate that word, Self.) You know,
Buddhists don't generally give any explanation for all this. IMO,
through us and all other sentient beings What Is becomes aware of
What Is. But this is not as some separate being Out There, but rather
as us, you and me and all sentient beings, awakening to who they really are.
Through you and me and All This, "IT" dances, and inside
and outside are united in that Dance. Choose as you like, ED, but there is only
the Dance! You will dance in spite of yourself! IMO.
Steve
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