A very good classical description, Bill. I have no issues with definitions of Japanese terms - they're as good as any. If I had a path more similar to yours I might say many of those things.

On 2/1/2012 9:57 PM, Bill! wrote:

Kristopher,

I'll only address the part of your post that you pose a question, even if it might have been only rhetorical:

On zazen:
For me the only zazen is shikantaza ('just sit' in Japanese or is sometimes called 'clear mind' or 'empty mind'). All other forms of meditation involving koans, visualizations, reflection, watcher watching, silent mantras, etc..., are either tools to bring you to shikantaza, or some other form of mediation - but not zazen.


Yet, you describe taking action to halt/stop/clear/empty/still the mind, which would not be "just sitting".

I only note an apparent and amusing (to me anyway) aspect.

To prefer a practice to another is not a hindrance. To attach to one is. If the practice is of any use it should reveal at least this this rather quickly. Such practices also have many practical benefits, which is likely the main reason they are recommended (as awaken or not, at least you get some focus, or relaxation, or sense of community, or....).

This 'halting' is IMO the purpose of all Zen Buddhist teaching techniques including koan study, kinhin, chanting, bowing, samu (chores)and following-the-breath. The 'halting' allows you to glimpse Buddha Nature which has been present but in the background all along, and is temporary and of short duration.


Yet it cannot be, it can only appear so. I simply point out the obvious. An interruption, is not really stopping or changing anything. You trip over your false-self, and find it's not there.

The first instance it called 'kensho' in Japanese and can be translated as 'initial ireakthrough. From that point on the practice is to extend and deepen the periods of awareness of Buddha Nature then does not require the 'halting' of all thought, but only the non-attachment to thought.


Along with this (going along with this progressive story) it should become increasingly clear that no doing is required. The doing was generating the illusion that is now unable to maintain itself. You don't end it, it ends this aspect of you that perceives lack.

Again, I am not offering a contrary view, I only point to a complimentary/interdependent aspect. Buddha Mind moving in all 10 directions.

The way I usually describe it is before the initial breakthrough the self's attachment to thoughts make them completely opaque concealing or at least obscuring Buddha Nature. After the initial breakthrough the practice is to continue to dilute attachments making thoughts more and more transparent and no longer completely obscuring Buddha Nature.


This takes me back to what you said above, that it's "in the background". I am noting this is the illusion, that it can only appear so (apart/hidden). What obscures Buddha Nature, is also Buddha Nature, thus "hidden in plain sight". "Revealed" to be as it has always been. When this is obvious, "just sitting" is Buddha Nature (something many argue against - still clinging to separation of ordinary from Buddha - not realizing dog shit and all else arising in mind is also Buddha Nature).

I suppose all I'm saying is these are stories told in hindsight. Their use thus limited. If someone takes another's path, they lengthen their own. If we are trained in a certain tradition/practice, we are very likely to use that systems words. This is not right/wrong, it's just human. If one sits staring at a wall for 30 years and suddenly has an experience of Satori, it would be very odd for him to say the practice had no effect, yet if the realization is there it's equally odd to say it did. Surely the wall that became more than a wall is seen again to be the wall. It takes no effort for a wall to become a wall. This should bring great laughter and tears.


Japanese Zen Buddhist do use several terms to describe varying degrees of awakening: 'kensho', 'satori' and 'great satori' but I don't find them very helpful. There more of the 'Buddhist' overlay of zen that I do talk about once in a while. They are not important distinctions to me.


Well, unimportant yes. Still, as limiting as words are - I like the the word Kensho for "glimpses" and so called peak experiences, and Satori for a realization that "sticks" because it's clear that it's all glimpses.

The whole gradual/sudden thing is empty to me. Both, descriptions of apparent aspects. Someone awakening suddenly without any practice, will in hindsight see a path was indeed there (or create the story of one in this of "past" lifetimes depending on culture and such). Someone who perceives a gradual path, will have a sudden shift even if it is not dramatic, and see their path differently. Each will tell very different stories.

Each a unique expression - but such tales can be captivating for seekers - attaching to others words and actions. This I suspect, is why it can take decades. To busy doing things to realize being to realize that doing is an aspect of being.

It's getting late, I should stick to one liners. The more I say, the more to muddle.

K

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