How would you write a limerick in Chinese?
--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Mike and Joe,
>
> I agree with Joe that Haikus written in English should comply with the
> historical 5-7-5 format. If they don't, then why call them Haikus? Of
> course the one other 'requirement' or characteristic is that the haiku is
> written to communicate sensual impressions only without subject/object or
> valuations. This is meant to emulate or communicate the non-dualistic state
> of Buddha Mind.
>
> I also agree with Mike that translations shouldn't have to force the poem
> into a 5-7-5. The example given of Bassho's Frog/Pond haiku is a good
> example. The last line is translated as 'Plop'. Bassho's haiku had to have
> used 5 syllables for that and not just 'plop'. In fact Bassho's actual
> poem's last line is more literally translated as 'makes loud water sound' or
> something like that. That's more literal but less poetic in English and I
> approve of Ginsburg's translation.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy, Mike,
> >
> > Well, the art-form has a "form" to it, and I suppose if we write from
> > scratch in English -- our own poem -- it can be good to honor the form and
> > be guided as well as constrained by it.
> >
> > But for translations, some translators stick to the form, while others
> > don't feel compelled to do so. I think there's a bit of vanity shown by a
> > translator who casts someone else's poem in that form, when I think the
> > form does not help a translation much. I think it's enough for a reader to
> > read the translation to understand the words, and then to read the Japanese
> > again and again, for the sound and the music.
> >
> > By the way, Aitken Roshi's first published book (essentially his Master's
> > thesis done at University of Hawai'i in 1950), is great on this score. The
> > original is given; his translations are literal and word-for-word; and his
> > own more idiomatic English translations follow. I don't believe he adheres
> > to the numerical syllable count form. The books is BASHO'S HAIKU AND ZEN.
> > A great book, for the poetry, for insight on Bassho's life and practice,
> > and for practical insights on zen practice, by a master (recently deceased).
> >
> > I think the American lyric poet Allen Ginsburg translated Bassho's most
> > famous poem without regard to syllable-count in the translation, "Old Pond":
> >
> > Old pond;
> > frog jumps in.
> > Plop!
> >
> > (I count just six syllables in all).
> >
> > But don't miss the original! Maybe see Robert Aitken's book for that, if
> > you have it.
> >
> > --Joe
> >
> > > mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, you're quite correct - Haiku doesn't have to strictly follow the
> > > 5-7-5 rule to be regarded as haiku anymore.
> >
>
------------------------------------
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
[email protected]
[email protected]
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
