Bill, > I can understand intellectually what going beyond words but getting to that > place has proved most difficult.
If someone were to hold up an object and ask you what it was, in that moment/space just before you said the name, there you can find your answer. Joe's method of just saying the first letter of a statement is good training. M- ________________________________ From: William Rintala <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 16:38 Subject: [Zen] There's still a bowl? Mike's question brought up memories of my earlier readings on Zen. The idea of going beyond words and labeling things. The story that went something like "A teacher placed a bowl in the center of a groud of monks and asked them to tell him what it was. After several erudite philosophical responses one monk got up and kicked the bowl." I may be mis-remembering the specifics but it went something like that. I can understand intellectually what going beyond words but getting to that place has proved most difficult. Bill Find what makes your heart sing…and do it! ________________________________ From: mike brown <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 7:00:58 AM Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" There's still a bowl? ________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 12:51 Subject: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" A clean bowl is realization...Bill! --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Edgar, > > Exactly. > > Mike > > > > ________________________________ > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 12:35 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" > > > Â > Mike, > > Yes, the problem with these pithy 'in crowd' Zen sayings is that bowls can be > washed WITHOUT realization just as they can be WITH realization... > > Edgar > > > > > On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:19 AM, mike brown wrote: > > Â > > > > > >Bill!, > > > >A great instruction, and is certainly direct, but Joshu's instructions were > >given to a monk who had probably been practicing meditation for a long time > >and was already 'ripe' for awakening to happen. Imagine how useful that > >instruction would be to a neophyte coming off the street asking about the > >search for truth or something similar. Joshu's instruction is just that - an > >instruction. That's why i believe Buddha's skilful means (upaya) is so > >useful as a teaching method. On the one side we can have the direct pointing > >to the Dharma (Zen) and on the other we can have Therevada Buddhism with > >it's more step by step instructions, such as following the Noble eightfold > >Path. > > > >The Buddha was very wise to understand that there are many different kinds > >of people/cultures/personalities etc. out there and no one method will work > for all. I think it should be clear now that "wash you bowls" just isn't > going to work for someone like ED. If you agree, what else could you say that > might help him? > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > >To: [email protected] > >Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 9:48 > >Subject: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" > > > > > >Â > >ED, > > > >Mind if Joshu and I jump in? > > > >"WASH YOUR BOWLS!" That's how...Bill! (and Joshu) > > > >--- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Edgar, > >> > >> And how is this magic trick accomplished? > >> > >> --ED > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > >> > > >> > ED, > >> > > >> > Stop practicing and just BE your Buddha Nature! > >> > > >> > Edgar > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Edgar, > >> > > > >> > > Therefore, although each of us is complete, we need to practice > >> > > diligently at all times with no objective in mind? > >> > > > >> > > --ED > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > Joe and Merle, > >> > > > > >> > > > There is no 'goal' of enlightenment to be achieved without which > >> you > >> > > imagine you are incomplete.... > >> > > > > >> > > > There is no incompleteness. This understanding is an essential > >> aspect > >> > > of realization... > >> > > > > >> > > > Wham! > >> > > > > >> > > > Edgar > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
