Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"

Sun, 02 Sep 2012 11:17:58 -0700 

Bowling in darkness
No one sees the pins set up
No one sees them fall

KG


On 9/2/2012 8:07 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:


Bill!
Completely wrong! That's the view that was rejected by the master who chose Hui Neng over the monk who claimed Zen was keeping the mirror free of dust.... 

Read Hui Neng's poem again.

There is NO mirror that needs dusting to keep it clean.
There is NO bowl that needs to be washed!


Edgar



On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:51 AM, Bill! wrote:


A clean bowl is realization...Bill!
--- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: 
>
> Edgar,
>
> Exactly.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...>
> To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 12:35
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>
>
> Â
> Mike,
>
> Yes, the problem with these pithy 'in crowd' Zen sayings is that bowls can be washed WITHOUT realization just as they can be WITH realization... 
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:19 AM, mike brown wrote:
>
> Â
> >
> >
> >Bill!,
> >
> >A great instruction, and is certainly direct, but Joshu's instructions were given to a monk who had probably been practicing meditation for a long time and was already 'ripe' for awakening to happen. Imagine how useful that instruction would be to a neophyte coming off the street asking about the search for truth or something similar. Joshu's instruction is just that - an instruction. That's why i believe Buddha's skilful means (upaya) is so useful as a teaching method. On the one side we can have the direct pointing to the Dharma (Zen) and on the other we can have Therevada Buddhism with it's more step by step instructions, such as following the Noble eightfold Path. 
> >
> >The Buddha was very wise to understand that there are many different kinds of people/cultures/personalities etc. out there and no one method will work > for all. I think it should be clear now that "wash you bowls" just isn't going to work for someone like ED. If you agree, what else could you say that might help him? 
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...>
> >To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 9:48
> >Subject: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
> >
> >
> >Â
> >ED,
> >
> >Mind if Joshu and I jump in?
> >
> >"WASH YOUR BOWLS!" That's how...Bill! (and Joshu)
> >
> >--- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Edgar,
> >>
> >> And how is this magic trick accomplished?
> >>
> >> --ED
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: 
> >> >
> >> > ED,
> >> >
> >> > Stop practicing and just BE your Buddha Nature!
> >> >
> >> > Edgar
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > > Edgar,
> >> > >
> >> > > Therefore, although each of us is complete, we need to practice
> >> > > diligently at all times with no objective in mind?
> >> > >
> >> > > --ED
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > > > Joe and Merle,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > There is no 'goal' of enlightenment to be achieved without which 
> >> you
> >> > > imagine you are incomplete....
> >> > > >
> >> > > > There is no incompleteness. This understanding is an essential
> >> aspect
> >> > > of realization...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Wham!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Edgar
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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