yea edgar..agree..merle
Too good to pass up: there is a middle way of people who see their programming,
accept themselves as they are, and act in the moment of freedom to be the best
incarnation of that programming they can.
Change is inevitable and impossible. Just do what you can right now.
On Sep 5, 2012 3:54 AM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote:
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>Hi Merle,
>
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>Almost everyone has a closed mind, the result of their programming.
>
>
>There are two kinds of people. Those that realized they are programmed and
>seek to recognize and transcend their programming, and those that think they
>are their programming....
>
>
>Edgar
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>On Sep 4, 2012, at 10:05 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
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>> some folk have closed minds edgar...you need a sledge hammer to break
>>through..a stick would not do...merle
>>
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>>Kristopher,
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>>Well yes and no... Maybe... Everyone certainly models reality differently
>>each in their own internal simulations of it. But in a deeper sense there is
>>no reality except as it is experienced by some observer or other.... This is
>>a complex subject that requires a deep understanding and more time than I
>>have right now...
>>
>>
>>
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>>Kristopher is obviously someone who has endured much pain and suffering in
>>his life and made considerable strides in transcending that by approaching
>>Zen....
>>
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>>However, if I may respectfully say so, I detect a hint of a particular
>>attitude towards Zen characterized by a sort of Nihilism, hopelessness and a
>>feeling of meaninglessness in everything which really isn't Zen.
>>
>>
>>Please don't take this as a criticism, God knows none of us is perfect, but
>>my feeling is that since we are all on the path we do each other a favor by
>>pointing out how we might each do better and that we should all be free and
>>open in exchanging and receiving such insights.
>>
>>
>>Merle especially seems open to this. She's a great example for us all in that
>>respect and we should all take her lead on this..
>>
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>>Zen is not meaningless, hopeless, or Nihilistic. On the contrary by directly
>>realizing and experiencing the ultimate absolute reality of all things really
>>really here right now in the present moment it can be said to reveal the
>>ultimate MEANINGFULNESS of things, and thus of the seeker...
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>>Edgar
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>>On Sep 4, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
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>>>
>>>
>>>OK. Then there is no Bill! standing apart from Buddha nature. Not the Bill!
>>>who posts here, and not the Bill! who lives as a logical construct in your
>>>head. If you think these Bill!s are the same, you will logically think Bill!
>>>to be illogical. You will see what you think is Bill!'s error. If you think
>>>them apart, you make the same error for him.
>>>
>>>It's only easy to be right about the image you have of him, no
other can be known. There is no difference.
>>>
>>>Same goes for 'Zen'
>>>
>>>KG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 9/4/2012 8:56 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
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>>>
>>>>Bill!,
>>>>
>>>>Bill! claims logic is NOT Zen...
>>>>
>>>>Bill! says he uses logic in his daily life...
>>>>
>>>>Therefore Bill must believe he CANNOT have Zen in his
daily life...
>>>>
>>>>This is a serious error...
>>>>
>>>>Zen is 24/7 whether one is using logic or sitting
mindlessly.
>>>>
>>>>It is a fundamental error to believe only mindless sitting
is Zen. That's mistaking a particular meditative state for
Zen.
>>>>
>>>>There is no part of reality that is not Buddha Nature.
Illusion is part of reality and thus is a manifestation of
Buddha Nature.
>>>>
>>>>Realization is seeing the illusion that is part of reality
as illusion rather than the fake reality it pretends to
be....
>>>>
>>>>When Bill! understands that logic is part of reality and
thus like everything else is a form manifesting Buddha
Nature rather than something contrary to and apart from
Buddha Nature, then and only then will Bill! allow himself
to completely realize Zen in his daily life as well as
when he is sitting mindlessly...
>>>>
>>>>This is the crux of Bill!'s misunderstanding.... At the
most fundamental level he dualistically divides reality
into illusion and Buddha nature without realizing that
even illusion is a manifestation of Buddha Nature because
there is nothing that is not Buddha Nature... The world of
forms does NOT stand apart from Buddha Nature. The world
of forms is a direct manifestation OF Buddha Nature.
>>>>
>>>>Zen does not try to dismiss the world of forms; Zen is
seeing the Buddha Nature that is manifested in the world
of forms... It is seeing the world of forms AS Buddha
Nature...
>>>>
>>>>Only when this becomes clear can realization occur....
>>>>
>>>>Edgar
>>>>
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