Merle, I also understand why you want to cause friction on this forum. You want to be entertained. I have enough entertainment in my life outside of this forum. That's not what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for substantive discussions on zen.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  > bill!..are you saying your zen practise is superior to edgar's zen practise, > eh?.. > tut tut..  one man up manship games... > shame on you Bill!..you the enlightened one! >  merle > > >  > Merle, > > Edgar could be a genius, but that won't help his zen practice...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > àbill!..i can see where you are coming from and also where edgar is > > coming from..so where am i coming from? > > i can understand and relate to what you both are saying > > > > àgod father BILL!.. aldous huxley is a genius... > > ànext you'll be telling me your bored with leonardo da vinci > > àthe genius àare then not your cup of tea? > > > > àmaybe edgar is a genius? > > àmerle > > > > > > à> > Merle, > > > > Edgar and I disagree on fundamental issues. In his post below I agree only > > with the first paragraph. The rest of it, which basically says some > > attachments are benign (actually, even necessary) and some aren't, I > > disagree with. And his last sentence "Zen is not as simple as many > > imagine!" is outright egregious. Zen is the most simple thing you can > > imagine. IMO Edgar makes is complicated by trying to UNDERSTAND and > > EXPLAIN it all the time. There is no need for, in fact IMO there is a need > > NOT TO, try to understand zen. > > > > You don't understand zen, you practice zen. > > > > My reading of the ISLAND has bogged down midway in Chapter 4. It seems > > very tedious and somewhat juvenile to me, but I'll keep going for at least > > another couple chapters to see what might come next. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill!..what is it that you and edgar disagree on?... is this just > > > childish one up manship? > > > Ãâàas we are all ONE > > > Ãâàthen stands to reason..edgar and you are still on the same coin > > > so to speak > > > Ãâàhow is your island reading going ? > > > Ãâàmerle > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Merle, > > > > > > I am 'listening' (reading actually), but there's nothing in this post for > > > me to learn, nothing new anyway. I already am aware of how much Edgar > > > and I disagree on zen - and I knew that already. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàyes bill!..edgar is back.. > > > > edgar is on the cutting edge..are you listening?... and need i say > > > > learning?..merle > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Suresh, > > > > > > > > Attachment is a very valuable evolutionary survival mechanism. It's a > > > > fundamental part of human nature similar to what we share with other > > > > species. With no attachments individual humans would have no motivation > > > > or direction and would not survive. > > > > > > > > The problem is not attachments per se. We all use attachments every day > > > > to go about our lives successfully. That's what enables people to > > > > sustain material success in life. The problem is excessive attachment, > > > > or attachment to your attachments. The problem is excessive attachments > > > > THAT DO NOT MESH WITH WHAT IS REAL or attainable.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > For example a man's attachment to THE IDEA OF an unattainable woman, or > > > > an unattainable position in society. Attachment to the unattainable > > > > causes suffering.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > However attachment to the ATTAINABLE maintains physical and social > > > > life.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > However things can change. When one loses something one was attached to > > > > realization demands changing one's attachment to it to mirror the new > > > > state of reality. > > > > > > > > Zen is not as simple as many imagine! > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2012, at 1:38 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bill > > > > >Why do human liked to get attached? > > > > >What is the root cause for attachment? > > > > >Suresh > > > > >On Oct 20, 2012 8:38 AM, "Merle Lester" <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (merlewiitpom@) Add > > > > > cleanup rule | More info > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàso how does one NOT be attached to these emotions > > > > >>eh?..merle > > > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > >>Merle, > > > > >> > > > > >>No, these in-and-of themselves are not attachments. They are > > > > >>concepts (mental models), and in some case emotions - and it is not > > > > >>these that cause suffering. It is ATTACHMENTS to these that cause > > > > >>suffering. > > > > >> > > > > >>...Bill! > > > > >> > > > > >>--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàthanks..are they > > > > >>> attachments?... merle > > > > >>> Merle, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Love is not exactly the OPPOSITE of hate, but love/hate is a > > > > >>> dualistic pair - like good/bad, tall/short, hot/cold, yin/yang, > > > > >>> etc... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ...Bill! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàtell > > > > >>> > me more BILLLL....... Love is it the opposite of hate????? merle > > > > >>> > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > I agree with James. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > As with all emotions like fear, anger, love, hate it is not the > > > > >>> > emotion that is the real problem, it is the ATTACHMENT to the > > > > >>> > emotion. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > ...Bill! > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > --- In [email protected], "James W. Meritt" <JWMeritt@> > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > Not so sure getting rid of fear is a good thing. I see having > > > > >>> > > fear, but modifying how you use and react to it as a good thing. > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > James W. Meritt > > > > >>> > > CISSP, CISA, NSA IAM, PMP > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
