Merle, That's my experience...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  bill.... rubbish..that's your take!..merle >  > Merle, > > I'm saying understanding has nothing at all to do with experiencing Buddha > Nature...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > à> > bill!..are you saying your zen practise is superior to edgar's zen > > practise, eh?.. > > tut tut.. àone man up manship games... > > shame on you Bill!..you the enlightened one! > > àmerle > > > > > > à> > Merle, > > > > Edgar could be a genius, but that won't help his zen practice...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàbill!..i can see where you are coming from and also where edgar > > > is coming from..so where am i coming from? > > > i can understand and relate to what you both are saying > > > > > > Ãâàgod father BILL!.. aldous huxley is a genius... > > > Ãâànext you'll be telling me your bored with leonardo da vinci > > > Ãâàthe genius Ãâàare then not your cup of tea? > > > > > > Ãâàmaybe edgar is a genius? > > > Ãâàmerle > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Merle, > > > > > > Edgar and I disagree on fundamental issues. In his post below I agree > > > only with the first paragraph. The rest of it, which basically says some > > > attachments are benign (actually, even necessary) and some aren't, I > > > disagree with. And his last sentence "Zen is not as simple as many > > > imagine!" is outright egregious. Zen is the most simple thing you can > > > imagine. IMO Edgar makes is complicated by trying to UNDERSTAND and > > > EXPLAIN it all the time. There is no need for, in fact IMO there is a > > > need NOT TO, try to understand zen. > > > > > > You don't understand zen, you practice zen. > > > > > > My reading of the ISLAND has bogged down midway in Chapter 4. It seems > > > very tedious and somewhat juvenile to me, but I'll keep going for at > > > least another couple chapters to see what might come next. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill!..what is it that you and edgar disagree on?... is this just > > > > childish one up manship? > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàas we are all ONE > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàthen stands to reason..edgar and you are still on > > > > the same coin so to speak > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàhow is your island reading going ? > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàmerle > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > I am 'listening' (reading actually), but there's nothing in this post > > > > for me to learn, nothing new anyway. I already am aware of how much > > > > Edgar and I disagree on zen - and I knew that already. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàyes bill!..edgar is back.. > > > > > edgar is on the cutting edge..are you listening?... and need i say > > > > > learning?..merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Suresh, > > > > > > > > > > Attachment is a very valuable evolutionary survival mechanism. It's a > > > > > fundamental part of human nature similar to what we share with other > > > > > species. With no attachments individual humans would have no > > > > > motivation or direction and would not survive. > > > > > > > > > > The problem is not attachments per se. We all use attachments every > > > > > day to go about our lives successfully. That's what enables people to > > > > > sustain material success in life. The problem is excessive > > > > > attachment, or attachment to your attachments. The problem is > > > > > excessive attachments THAT DO NOT MESH WITH WHAT IS REAL or > > > > > attainable.ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > For example a man's attachment to THE IDEA OF an unattainable woman, > > > > > or an unattainable position in society. Attachment to the > > > > > unattainable causes > > > > > suffering.ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > However attachment to the ATTAINABLE maintains physical and social > > > > > life.ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > However things can change. When one loses something one was attached > > > > > to realization demands changing one's attachment to it to mirror the > > > > > new state of reality. > > > > > > > > > > Zen is not as simple as many imagine! > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2012, at 1:38 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bill > > > > > >Why do human liked to get attached? > > > > > >What is the root cause for attachment? > > > > > >Suresh > > > > > >On Oct 20, 2012 8:38 AM, "Merle Lester" <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (merlewiitpom@) > > > > > > Add cleanup rule | More info > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >>ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàso how does one NOT be > > > > > >>attached to these emotions eh?..merle > > > > > >>ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >>Merle, > > > > > >> > > > > > >>No, these in-and-of themselves are not attachments. They are > > > > > >>concepts (mental models), and in some case emotions - and it is not > > > > > >>these that cause suffering. It is ATTACHMENTS to these that cause > > > > > >>suffering. > > > > > >> > > > > > >>...Bill! > > > > > >> > > > > > >>--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > >>wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàthanks..are > > > > > >>> they attachments?... merle > > > > > >>> Merle, > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Love is not exactly the OPPOSITE of hate, but love/hate is a > > > > > >>> dualistic pair - like good/bad, tall/short, hot/cold, yin/yang, > > > > > >>> etc... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ...Bill! > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàtell > > > > > >>> > me more BILLLL....... Love is it the opposite of hate????? > > > > > >>> > merle > > > > > >>> > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > I agree with James. > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > As with all emotions like fear, anger, love, hate it is not the > > > > > >>> > emotion that is the real problem, it is the ATTACHMENT to the > > > > > >>> > emotion. > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > ...Bill! > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > --- In [email protected], "James W. Meritt" <JWMeritt@> > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > Not so sure getting rid of fear is a good thing. I see > > > > > >>> > > having fear, but modifying how you use and react to it as a > > > > > >>> > > good thing. > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > James W. Meritt > > > > > >>> > > CISSP, CISA, NSA IAM, PMP > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
