Merle, >From time to time I aim for some 'friendly friction'. However, it is far from >rapping on the knuckles. If you feel that way, I appologize. Anthony
________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 22 October 2012, 13:23 Subject: [Zen] original zen anthony ... my life is not dull... i do not wish to call friction BILL!.. why are you singling me out..? you in my books are the one who always begins the friction... you will not accept... you just put your 2 bits in and me and all must say yea bill! or we are rapped over the knuckles with your so called stick.. more like an iron rod... think deeply and long... what do you want experience of the understanding of someone or text book analyses of zen... i can do quotations too..regurgitate me thinks you are not zen enough you do not seem to be able to stand on your own 2 feet.. always harping back to some text book idea... what if there were no textbooks no masters of zen.. then you'd have to start from scratch eh?.. fresh original zen..eh? what then Bill! merle Everybody needs entertainment to escape from dull life. Anthony From: Bill! <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 22 October 2012, 7:48 Subject: [Zen] Re: genius Merle,I also understand why you want to cause friction on this forum. You want to be entertained. I have enough entertainment in my life outside of this forum. That's not what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for substantive discussions on zen....Bill!--- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:>> > >  > bill!..are you saying your zen practise is superior to edgar's zen practise, eh?..> tut tut..  one man up manship games...> shame on you Bill!..you the enlightened one!>  merle> > >  > Merle,> > Edgar could be a genius, but that won't help his zen practice...Bill!> > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:> >> > > > > >  bill!..i can see where you are coming from and also where edgar is coming from..so where am i coming from?> > i can understand and relate to what you both are saying> > > >  god father BILL!.. aldous huxley is a genius...> >  next you'll be telling me your bored with leonardo da vinci> >  the genius  are then not your cup of tea?> > > >  maybe edgar is a genius?> >  merle> > > > > >  > > Merle,> > > > Edgar and I disagree on fundamental issues. In his post below I agree only with the first paragraph. The rest of it, which basically says some attachments are benign (actually, even necessary) and some aren't, I disagree with. And his last sentence "Zen is not as simple as many imagine!" is outright egregious. Zen is the most simple thing you can imagine. IMO Edgar makes is complicated by trying to UNDERSTAND and EXPLAIN it all the time. There is no need for, in fact IMO there is a need NOT TO, try to understand zen.> > > > You don't understand zen, you practice zen.> > > > My reading of the ISLAND has bogged down midway in Chapter 4. It seems very tedious and somewhat juvenile to me, but I'll keep going for at least another couple chapters to see what might come next.> > > > ...Bill!> > > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > Bill!..what is it that you and edgar disagree on?... is this just childish one up manship?> > >  as we are all ONE> > >  then stands to reason..edgar and you are still on the same coin so to speak> > >  how is your island reading going ?> > >  merle> > > > > > > > >  > > > Merle,> > > > > > I am 'listening' (reading actually), but there's nothing in this post for me to learn, nothing new anyway. I already am aware of how much Edgar and I disagree on zen - and I knew that already.> > > > > > ...Bill!> > > > > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ yes bill!..edgar is back..> > > > edgar is on the cutting edge..are you listening?... and need i say learning?..merle> > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > Suresh,> > > > > > > > Attachment is a very valuable evolutionary survival mechanism. It's a fundamental part of human nature similar to what we share with other species. With no attachments individual humans would have no motivation or direction and would not survive.> > > > > > > > The problem is not attachments per se. We all use attachments every day to go about our lives successfully. That's what enables people to sustain material success in life. The problem is excessive attachment, or attachment to your attachments. The problem is excessive attachments THAT DO NOT MESH WITH WHAT IS REAL or attainable.ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > For example a man's attachment to THE IDEA OF an unattainable woman, or an unattainable position in society. Attachment to the unattainable causes suffering.ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > However attachment to the ATTAINABLE maintains physical and social life.ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > However things can change. When one loses something one was attached to realization demands changing one's attachment to it to mirror the new state of reality.> > > > > > > > Zen is not as simple as many imagine!> > > > > > > > Edgar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2012, at 1:38 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >Bill> > > > >Why do human liked to get attached?> > > > >What is the root cause for attachment?> > > > >Suresh> > > > >On Oct 20, 2012 8:38 AM, "Merle Lester" <merlewiitpom@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (merlewiitpom@) Add cleanup rule | More info > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > >>ÃÆ'‚ > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>ÃÆ'‚ > > > > >>ÃÆ'‚ so how does one NOT be >>attached to these emotions eh?..merle> > > > >>ÃÆ'‚ > > > > >>>>Merle,> > > > >>> > > > >>No, these in-and-of themselves are not >>attachments. They are concepts (mental models), and in some case emotions - >>and it is not these that cause suffering. It is ATTACHMENTS to these that >>cause suffering.> > > > >>> > > > >>...Bill!> > > > >>> > > > >>--- In >>mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:> > > >>> >>>> > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> >>ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ thanks..are they attachments?... >>merle> > > > >>> Merle,> > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Love is not >>exactly the OPPOSITE of hate, but love/hate is a dualistic pair - like good/bad, tall/short, hot/cold, yin/yang, etc...> > > > >>> > > > > >>> ...Bill!> > > > >>> > > > > >>> --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ tell me more BILLLL....... Love is it the opposite of hate????? merle> > > > >>> > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > >>> > I agree with James.> > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > As with all emotions like fear, anger, love, hate it is not the emotion that is the real problem, it is the ATTACHMENT to the emotion.> > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > ...Bill!> > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, "James W. Meritt" <JWMeritt@> wrote:> > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > Not so sure getting rid of fear is a good thing. I see having fear, but modifying how you use and react to it as a good thing.> > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > James W. Meritt > > > > >>> > > CISSP, CISA, NSA IAM, PMP> > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>
