Bill, Disappointment is an attachment....
Edgar On Oct 26, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > I'm disappointed in your characterization of Joe and me. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >> >> Mike, Merle, Joe and Bill, >> >> Only for "ordinary minds" is intellect not Zen and something "to be dropped". >> >> For the realized mind intellect is used to solve real problems in the world >> of forms in which we all exist like it or not... >> >> Bill and Joe's basic PROBLEM is that they HAVE A PROBLEM. They don't really >> seem to like the world they live in or feel at home in it. They want to >> escape the world of forms; but first of all that's totally impossible while >> they still live; and second of all to vainly attempt to escape the world of >> forms is to escape realization instead. >> >> Merle and myself on the other hand LOVE the world we live in. Merle and I >> LOVE reality because we see how it continually manifests Buddha Nature in >> its EVERY MINUTE DETAIL. >> >> Merle and I love and accept reality. Bill and Joe reject it... >> >> >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Oct 25, 2012, at 8:14 PM, mike brown wrote: >> >>> >>> The intellect is part of ordinary mind, as is being attached to emotions >>> and believing in a self. This is the world of the conditioned and the >>> relative. I know because I live there. It's not for want, or "lack", of >>> anything that takes us beyond, but the dropping of these things. >>> >>> From: "yonyonson@..." <yonyonson@...> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 0:47 >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen >>> >>> >>>> There's no need to speculate whether we are always aware, or not. We just >>>> are. Of course, some are not aware that we are always aware. Funny you >>>> should put me in that camp, but there you are... >>> >>> yes, a need to or not does not interfere with your speculation. ;-) >>> >>> "We just are" Can you feel it in your zen bones? >>> >>> it makes no difference to me, but when you use expressions like "going >>> beyond" there must be a lacking, a goal, call it what you like. >>> >>> hongyeongsoo >>> >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: "yonyonson@..." <yonyonson@...> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 23:53 >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> does a door-post lack anything? >>>>> >>>>> Well, you've just answered your own question by asking me and not the >>>>> door-post. >>>> >>>> i ask you because you seem to think so or not so. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> more than enough awakened persons have stated, "Awakening chooses >>>>> you"; not the other way around. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That's only one side of the dualistic coin (tariki = outside help; other >>>>> power). The other side is of the coin is Jiriki (Awakening brought about >>>>> by >>>>> one's own self power/effort). They're not mutually exclusive, btw. >>>> >>>> tariki/jiriki...huh? outside of scriptures and/or japanese language. >>>> show me please... >>>> also, "outside(tariki)/inside(jiriki)"? of what? WHO? >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> No conditions. >>>>> >>>>> You could say that Buddha Nature is the Unconditioned, but what prevents >>>>> a >>>>> person in a coma from becoming Awakened in this very moment? >>>> >>>> i don't know >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "beyond intellect into intuition and awareness"? have you been there? >>>>> >>>>> Who hasn't been there? Who isn't there now? Even when you're in the >>>>> middle >>>>> of a grievous argument your awareness of being doesn't disappear. >>>> >>>> reminds me of Zuigan's morning question, "Master, Master, are you >>>> awake? are you Super Awake?" okay, so no problems? what are you >>>> aspiring towards? >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> or are you just speculating? >>>>> >>>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> yes. >>>> >>>> hongyeongsoo >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: "yonyonson@..." <yonyonson@...> >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 19:34 >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> does a door-post lack anything? >>>>> >>>>> more than enough awakened persons have stated, "Awakening chooses >>>>> you"; not the other way around. No conditions. >>>>> >>>>> "beyond intellect into intuition and awareness"? have you been there? >>>>> or are you just speculating? >>>>> >>>>> hongyeongsoo >>>>> >>>>> "zazen is good for nothing" >>>>> >>>>> On 10/24/12, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: >>>>>> In Edgar's defence, try telling a door-post, or a one day old baby, or a >>>>>> person in a coma - "Just This" - and see if they Awaken. So the >>>>>> intellect >>>>>> is >>>>>> needed to both live and set the conditions for awakening, but toreally >>>>>> live >>>>>> we have to go beyond the intellect into intuition and awareness. 2 plus >>>>>> 2 >>>>>> = >>>>>> 4. But what does 4 equal? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: Joe <desert_woodworker@...> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012, 23:26 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Group, & Edgar, >>>>>> >>>>>> I did my level best to draw Edgar out, but to Noah Veil. >>>>>> >>>>>> I inscribe my Gatha in sorrow, with regret and apology to all. >>>>>> >>>>>> To Edgar: >>>>>> -- ----- >>>>>> Stubbornness does not Compassion show; >>>>>> Nor Self-Protectiveness quicken the Slow. >>>>>> One-up-man-ship >>>>>> Did never steal THIS show. >>>>>> >>>>>> Generosity and consideration >>>>>> Are a far more wholesome ration. >>>>>> But Clarity, Honesty, and help, >>>>>> Come not from a whelp. >>>>>> >>>>>> To raise a point and then depart >>>>>> Is the misplaced throwing of a dart. >>>>>> To live to lie another day, >>>>>> is the cellulose Philosophy of a bale of Hay. >>>>>> >>>>>> --J. Guo-Xiang Tennen M. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> REALITY, THE WORLD OF FORMS, as I just said! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
