i agree on the attachment and belief in self is ordinary mind, but how is intellect--when not attached to? "beyond" sounds relative to me. "but the dropping of these things." lol, I read "the droppingS of these things."
On 10/26/12, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > The intellect is part of ordinary mind, as is being attached to emotions and > believing in a self. This is the world of the conditioned and the relative. > I know because I live there. It's not for want, or "lack", of anything that > takes us beyond, but the dropping of these things. > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 0:47 > Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen > > > >> There's no need to speculate whether we are always aware, or not. We just >> are. Of course, some are not aware that we are always aware. Funny you >> should put me in that camp, but there you are... > > yes, a need to or not does not interfere with your speculation. ;-) > > "We just are" Can you feel it in your zen bones? > > it makes no difference to me, but when you use expressions like "going > beyond" there must be a lacking, a goal, call it what you like. > > hongyeongsoo > >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 23:53 >> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen >> >> >> >>>>does a door-post lack anything? >>> >>> Well, you've just answered your own question by asking me and not the >>> door-post. >> >> i ask you because you seem to think so or not so. >> >>> >>> >>>>more than enough awakened persons have stated, "Awakening chooses >>> you"; not the other way around. >>> >>> >>> That's only one side of the dualistic coin (tariki = outside help; other >>> power). The other side is of the coin is Jiriki (Awakening brought about >>> by >>> one's own self power/effort). They're not mutually exclusive, btw. >> >> tariki/jiriki...huh? outside of scriptures and/or japanese language. >> show me please... >> also, "outside(tariki)/inside(jiriki)"? of what? WHO? >> >>> >>>> No conditions. >>> >>> You could say that Buddha Nature is the Unconditioned, but what prevents >>> a >>> person in a coma from becoming Awakened in this very moment? >> >> i don't know >> >>> >>>>"beyond intellect into intuition and awareness"? have you been there? >>> >>> Who hasn't been there? Who isn't there now? Even when you're in the >>> middle >>> of a grievous argument your awareness of being doesn't disappear. >> >> reminds me of Zuigan's morning question, "Master, Master, are you >> awake? are you Super Awake?" okay, so no problems? what are you >> aspiring towards? >> >>> >>> >>>>or are you just speculating? >>> >>> What do you think? >> >> yes. >> >> hongyeongsoo >> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 19:34 >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen >>> >>> >>> >>> does a door-post lack anything? >>> >>> more than enough awakened persons have stated, "Awakening chooses >>> you"; not the other way around. No conditions. >>> >>> "beyond intellect into intuition and awareness"? have you been there? >>> or are you just speculating? >>> >>> hongyeongsoo >>> >>> "zazen is good for nothing" >>> >>> On 10/24/12, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> In Edgar's defence, try telling a door-post, or a one day old baby, or >>>> a >>>> person in a coma - "Just This" - and see if they Awaken. So the >>>> intellect >>>> is >>>> needed to both live and set the conditions for awakening, but toreally >>>> live >>>> we have to go beyond the intellect into intuition and awareness. 2 plus >>>> 2 >>>> = >>>> 4. But what does 4 equal? >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Joe <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012, 23:26 >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Group, & Edgar, >>>> >>>> I did my level best to draw Edgar out, but to Noah Veil. >>>> >>>> I inscribe my Gatha in sorrow, with regret and apology to all. >>>> >>>> To Edgar: >>>> -- ----- >>>> Stubbornness does not Compassion show; >>>> Nor Self-Protectiveness quicken the Slow. >>>> One-up-man-ship >>>> Did never steal THIS show. >>>> >>>> Generosity and consideration >>>> Are a far more wholesome ration. >>>> But Clarity, Honesty, and help, >>>> Come not from a whelp. >>>> >>>> To raise a point and then depart >>>> Is the misplaced throwing of a dart. >>>> To live to lie another day, >>>> is the cellulose Philosophy of a bale of Hay. >>>> >>>> --J. Guo-Xiang Tennen M. >>>> >>>>> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> REALITY, THE WORLD OF FORMS, as I just said! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
