Mike, Merle, Joe and Bill, Only for "ordinary minds" is intellect not Zen and something "to be dropped".
For the realized mind intellect is used to solve real problems in the world of forms in which we all exist like it or not... Bill and Joe's basic PROBLEM is that they HAVE A PROBLEM. They don't really seem to like the world they live in or feel at home in it. They want to escape the world of forms; but first of all that's totally impossible while they still live; and second of all to vainly attempt to escape the world of forms is to escape realization instead. Merle and myself on the other hand LOVE the world we live in. Merle and I LOVE reality because we see how it continually manifests Buddha Nature in its EVERY MINUTE DETAIL. Merle and I love and accept reality. Bill and Joe reject it... Edgar On Oct 25, 2012, at 8:14 PM, mike brown wrote: > > The intellect is part of ordinary mind, as is being attached to emotions and > believing in a self. This is the world of the conditioned and the relative. I > know because I live there. It's not for want, or "lack", of anything that > takes us beyond, but the dropping of these things. > > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 0:47 > Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen > > > > There's no need to speculate whether we are always aware, or not. We just > > are. Of course, some are not aware that we are always aware. Funny you > > should put me in that camp, but there you are... > > yes, a need to or not does not interfere with your speculation. ;-) > > "We just are" Can you feel it in your zen bones? > > it makes no difference to me, but when you use expressions like "going > beyond" there must be a lacking, a goal, call it what you like. > > hongyeongsoo > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 23:53 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen > > > > > > > >>>does a door-post lack anything? > >> > >> Well, you've just answered your own question by asking me and not the > >> door-post. > > > > i ask you because you seem to think so or not so. > > > >> > >> > >>>more than enough awakened persons have stated, "Awakening chooses > >> you"; not the other way around. > >> > >> > >> That's only one side of the dualistic coin (tariki = outside help; other > >> power). The other side is of the coin is Jiriki (Awakening brought about > >> by > >> one's own self power/effort). They're not mutually exclusive, btw. > > > > tariki/jiriki...huh? outside of scriptures and/or japanese language. > > show me please... > > also, "outside(tariki)/inside(jiriki)"? of what? WHO? > > > >> > >>> No conditions. > >> > >> You could say that Buddha Nature is the Unconditioned, but what prevents > >> a > >> person in a coma from becoming Awakened in this very moment? > > > > i don't know > > > >> > >>>"beyond intellect into intuition and awareness"? have you been there? > >> > >> Who hasn't been there? Who isn't there now? Even when you're in the > >> middle > >> of a grievous argument your awareness of being doesn't disappear. > > > > reminds me of Zuigan's morning question, "Master, Master, are you > > awake? are you Super Awake?" okay, so no problems? what are you > > aspiring towards? > > > >> > >> > >>>or are you just speculating? > >> > >> What do you think? > > > > yes. > > > > hongyeongsoo > > > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > >> To: [email protected] > >> Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 19:34 > >> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen > >> > >> > >> > >> does a door-post lack anything? > >> > >> more than enough awakened persons have stated, "Awakening chooses > >> you"; not the other way around. No conditions. > >> > >> "beyond intellect into intuition and awareness"? have you been there? > >> or are you just speculating? > >> > >> hongyeongsoo > >> > >> "zazen is good for nothing" > >> > >> On 10/24/12, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> In Edgar's defence, try telling a door-post, or a one day old baby, or a > >>> person in a coma - "Just This" - and see if they Awaken. So the > >>> intellect > >>> is > >>> needed to both live and set the conditions for awakening, but toreally > >>> live > >>> we have to go beyond the intellect into intuition and awareness. 2 plus > >>> 2 > >>> = > >>> 4. But what does 4 equal? > >>> > >>> Mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: Joe <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012, 23:26 > >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] original zen > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Group, & Edgar, > >>> > >>> I did my level best to draw Edgar out, but to Noah Veil. > >>> > >>> I inscribe my Gatha in sorrow, with regret and apology to all. > >>> > >>> To Edgar: > >>> -- ----- > >>> Stubbornness does not Compassion show; > >>> Nor Self-Protectiveness quicken the Slow. > >>> One-up-man-ship > >>> Did never steal THIS show. > >>> > >>> Generosity and consideration > >>> Are a far more wholesome ration. > >>> But Clarity, Honesty, and help, > >>> Come not from a whelp. > >>> > >>> To raise a point and then depart > >>> Is the misplaced throwing of a dart. > >>> To live to lie another day, > >>> is the cellulose Philosophy of a bale of Hay. > >>> > >>> --J. Guo-Xiang Tennen M. > >>> > >>>> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> REALITY, THE WORLD OF FORMS, as I just said! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
