billlll..
.let's put it this way...someone had to actually discover calculus.... the original mind.. .i do not believe there is a teacher/ guru worth their weight in gold who would not encourage and praise folk who realise their buddha nature.." themselves". ..after all the "master" is just another human being...no more or less than any other human being..setting teachers/ gurus on pedestals..... .i do not believe this is the zen way.. .we free ourselves from attachments ( your favourite saying bill....) no teacher/ guru wants a lap dog as a student. .merle Bill, I broke out laughing at your equating Zen and calculus! Even I don't go to that extreme! Edgar On Nov 22, 2012, at 8:12 AM, Bill! wrote: >Edgar, > >You continue to beat a dead horse. > >No one on this forum, including Joe, has every said that a >teacher/guru/roshi/etc... is absolutely necessary to realize Buddha Nature - >just as having a math teacher is not absolutely necessary to learn how to do >calculus. But...I'll bet you that there are a lot more people that can do >calculus who learned it through the guidance of a teacher then those that >developed that ability entirely on their own. > >...Bill! > >--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >> >> Joe, >> >> The problem with this analysis is that is assumes that realization is >> something that a teacher transmits to a disciple. >> >> There is NO transmission. >> >> Zen is not something a teacher has and then gives a student. >> >> Zen is an inherent characteristic of all reality. No teacher has any >> monopoly on it. It's found in the most seemingly insignificant speck of dirt >> just as much as in the greatest teacher. >> >> Realization is simply opening oneself to reality. While teachers can help >> focus the way, they are not essential, and as we have seen can sometimes be >> a distraction as when they start talking about yam leaves. >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 22, 2012, at 1:33 AM, Merle Lester wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > beautiful joe...merle >> > >> > >> > Dear Suresh, >> > >> > The human teacher is the one who has Compassion, and hence WILL teach you; >> > >> > The human teacher is the one who has developed skilful means due to his >> > compassion, and hence is ABLE to teach you; >> > >> > The human teacher's life is lived as the life of Nature (which you call >> > the 'whole universe'), and hence the human teacher IS the universe >> > teaching you. >> > >> > Why not see a teacher who speaks your language and can shake your hand? >> > That is the human teacher. >> > >> > Awaken with the human teacher, and then go and sit among the bushes and >> > grasses, and enlighten THEM. And all beings. And me. >> > >> > --Joe >> > >> > > SURESH JAGADEESAN <varamtha@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Who is teacher? If the whole universe is not your teacher, how >> > > can some human form be teacher? [snip] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >
