Joe, I stated in recent previous post that faith does/may have a place in the beginning of zen practice before realization of Buddha Nature. It did in my practice. Before the realization of Buddha Nature I believed what my teachers were saying about Buddha Nature and my ability to realize it was true. That kept me going, among other things. This was a belief not founded on experience. It was faith. After realizing Buddha Nature that belief based on faith was replaced with experience.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > In fact, Asvaghosha's, THE AWAKENING OF FAITH IN THE MAHAYANA, is addressed > to people "Who have not yet joined the group of beings who are determined to > attain enlightenment" (from Part 4: On Faith and Practice). > > Now, what about after the practitioner himself/herself awakens? Does faith > disappear, as all other things do? Yes. But it's like when the skin of an > onion is removed, and there are thicker, less hardened, layers beneath. > > The One goes by many names. Emptiness is nameless; but the center of the > onion is everywhere throughout the onion, and so is its taste. > > Layers of the onion dry out and form a new skin. > > Every subsequent awakening can give credit to a faith, in order to get down > deeper. Does faith ever disappear, or disappear for long? I think "it's > faith, all the way down". To the center of the onion, anyway, ...which is > everywhere. > > One awakening does not kill-off or ever prevent the re-emergence of faith. > Just a point of information, from experience, for those interested! ;-) > > --Joe > > PS Cheese and Green-Onion omelet here this morning: no skin to have to peel. > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > > > You are certainly correct that the words/concepts of belief, faith and > > trust are generally co-mingled. I certainly sometimes use them > > interchangeably when really I shouldn't. The are related but are different > > words because they describe different things; or at least different nuances > > of very similar things. > > > > I have read parts of some of the writings you cited but these have to do > > with Buddhism which is a religion and therefore based on faith, or > > philosophy which is based on logic. > > > > Zen is not a religion and is based neither on faith or logic but on > > experience. > > > > Again, all this is IMO... > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
