I did say and still do say the rational mind is not necessary to experiencing Buddha Nature.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Joe, > > Funny! > > Practice involves use of the rational mind to achieve the mindless. > > Thus the rational mind is necessary to realize Zen... > > Which is what I'VE been saying all along and Joe and Bill denying! > > Edgar > > > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > joe... i am with you!.. a great message....merle > > > > > > William, > > > > Bill! may answer just as he will. > > > > I'd say that the people you work with, William, may never have realized > > their Buddha nature if they have not ever practiced. > > > > It takes practice of a suitable sort to awaken. Not *just* a lack of > > intellectual functioning in the moment. > > > > Nor do people awaken to Buddha Nature when they are anesthetized, while the > > intellect sleeps. > > > > I doubt that Bill! is saying that people with little going on upstairs or > > who have become progressively demented have an easier time in awakening. > > > > I would say that such a person would still need to practice. And it might > > be difficult for them to encounter practice if they need to be cared for by > > others, in a milieu where Zen practice would not be an entry high up on the > > list of medical or other services that these people require. No, it would > > never ever appear on the list. > > > > I'll put it bluntly in this way: No practice, No awakening. > > > > If none of the one, then none of the other. > > > > So, what's the hindrance from the intellect? Simply, when, and while the > > intellect is functioning actively, one does not awaken. When one is > > thinking, one is in, or on, or of, the relative plane. But when the > > intellect does not interject and interfere by its movements and its taking > > center-stage, only the original mind is left. > > > > In a demented person, even if the intellect is largely lost, I think the > > connection to the original mind is blocked by some short-circuited element, > > or orphan process, or thread of the intellect. > > > > In the demented person, perhaps some intellectual process refuses to cease, > > or cannot cease, like the HAL-9000 in the movie 2001. It had to be removed, > > by "Dave". > > > > In the case of the demented person, the person is stuck. And can not only > > not express himself/herself, but cannot wake up, either, because some > > remnant of the intellect has its foot in the door and will not allow that > > door to close naturally. > > > > That door can close naturally in a healthy person, who practices in proper > > ways and has cooperating circumstances. > > > > The demented person may thus not be ABLE to practice, and practice in any > > case is probably not offered to the person, so practice is or becomes moot. > > > > BTW, in a healthy-brained person, even once the door closes, the intellect > > may still enter in again. Sometimes all too soon. Other times, one goes for > > very lengthy periods, awake, and also enjoys completely dreamless sleep, > > for weeks or months. > > > > Through continued practice, one can use everything freely, and never stick > > anywhere. The intellect can be raised and used and lowered, like a > > shop-window cover, opened and allowed to rest again; it need not always be > > spinning its wheels uselessly, generating phantoms, and wasting gas. It can > > be our TOOL: It is NOT "us". > > > > And, so we practice! > > > > By Intellect, I mean the active reasoning faculty. I do not mean Memory! > > > > Bill! may have his own ideas. He usually does, I'm glad to see. > > > > Best, > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
