Bill, Even cutting carrots is a complex action involving coordination of many muscles and movements. It is NOT a single action.. Without using your mind doing it your fingers will end up in the stew!
If you have half a mind you are able to think about what you will do after dinner WHILE you are cutting carrots. That is true Zen! Edgar On Apr 20, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > Every human action is not a combination of many actions. Fixing dinner may > be, but cutting carrots is not. Peeling potatoes is not. And even if the > complete act of fixing dinner does require a number of coordinated efforts it > does not require, and in fact is weakened by, thinking about what you want to > do after you eat. > > Zen is not "...using the rational mind to accomplish this by recognizing the > true nature of the world of forms one is working with.....". That is > problem-solving. That is rationality. That is not zen which is the experience > of Buddha Nature. > > I'm sorry you put so much emphasis on rationality. Although I am sure it must > be very comforting it is also very confining. But then that might be okay for > you living in a world which you fill completely up with illusory nails. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > The 'only one thing at a time delusion' is a common misunderstanding of Zen. > > > > In actuality EVERY human action is a combination of many actions. Fixing > > dinner is NOT just a single action called fixing dinner, it's a complex > > sequence of multiple actions that MUST be in the correct logical sequence > > to succeed. > > > > The correct understanding is not allowing mind to engage with unnecessary > > or irrelevant thoughts as they may arise but to concentrate on the logical > > multiplex of actions at hand to achieve the end... > > > > This all has to do with how Zen works in the world of forms. It REQUIRES > > INTELLECT to function effectively. > > > > Cooking dinner is NOT a single activity as comic book Zen supposes. It is a > > complex sequence of rationally oriented events including shopping for > > ingredients, planning what is to be cooked, cutting and chopping, mixing, > > cooking but only until done, serving the correct portions to the correct > > number of people etc. etc. etc. > > > > Zen is using the rational mind to accomplish this by recognizing the true > > nature of the world of forms one is working with..... > > > > If one does not use the rational mind during cooking one will fail. That is > > NOT Zen, that is incompetence! > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 20, 2013, at 5:45 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > This is a very common occurrence. Zen literature refers to this as the > > > 'monkey mind' because it seems to just go on and on without end and > > > out-of-control. > > > > > > Zazen (and other zen teaching techniques) specifically target 'monkey > > > mind' and try to calm it down until it eventually ceases all activity. > > > Then you can have a direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature). > > > > > > When you do things like weeding or probably painting you may focus your > > > whole being on just weeding or just painting. If you do this it is just > > > like zazen in which you may start by concentrating on your breath. This > > > single-mindedness concentration is what is meant by the zen saying, "When > > > sit, just sit. When walking, just walk. Above all don't wobble." That > > > means when your doing anything, just do that. Don't try to do many things > > > at once, and especially don't do something while thinking about something > > > else. Like painting while thinking about what you're going to fix for > > > dinner. Or when fixing dinner not thinking about what you're going to > > > paint after eating. When painting, just paint. When fixing dinner, just > > > fix dinner. > > > > > > And yes, it's much easier said than done... > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > >  bill..yes i understand..thank you..yes i agree with you..the > > > > intellect chatter..that is constant with me and i find it so tiring to > > > > the point where i get a headache..i go out and do weeding to freshen my > > > > brain.. i am constantly asking questions mostly ones one cannot answer > > > > anyway..round and round in circles i go... chewing it over and over... > > > > i am a bit of a problem solver..that's what happens at night and i > > > > cannot turn my mind off so i can't sleep..yes and then there is the > > > > emotions rocking me around like a boat...i need to go watch a show on > > > > telly now..back later..thank you bill!..i appreciate this post..merle > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > You are definitely on the right track. > > > > > > > > You can't just turn these things off. Daido talked about that. You just > > > > let them come and go. The zen story about that (there's a zen story > > > > about everything) is it is like when you are busy doing something and > > > > someone comes to your door. You can answer the door, tell them you'r > > > > busy right now and that they can come back later. What you don't do is > > > > invite them in for tea and a lengthy chat. > > > > > > > > You can begin to quiet your mind down by doing what Daido said (or by > > > > chanting or bowing or koan study, etc...), and when you do reach the > > > > point to where all these thoughts have been turned off (I use the word > > > > 'quiesce' or 'paused' or 'temporarily halted') THEN you will experience > > > > Buddha Nature - which is the direct experience of reality WITHOUT all > > > > the intellectual and emotional chatter going on. > > > > > > > > And basically that's it! Then it's just a matter of 'practicing' so you > > > > can keep all that chatter at an absolute minimum - not cease it > > > > permanently but only use it (your intellect/your rationality) when it's > > > > appropriate. Your intellect (logic/rationality) is just one of the many > > > > tools you have in your human tool bag and you shouldn't treat it like > > > > it is the only one. Like I've reminded people on this forum of the old > > > > saying which I apply to the intellect, "When all one has is a hammer, > > > > everything looks like a nail". > > > > > > > > I call all this intellectual chatter 'illusion' and I call only the > > > > direct experience of reality (Buddha Nature) 'real' - and that's where > > > > the major difference of opinion (or at least terminology) between Edgar > > > > and me - at least IMO. > > > > > > > > Enjoy...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  bill! yes i know the scoreboard..sometimes it's hard to turn off > > > > > the mind and experience non thought..and basically it's feelings that > > > > > get me into a knot...i get so many different feelings flooding > > > > > me..from joy to utter despair...all bubbling away like a volcano... > > > > > this is what i find difficult to turn that switch off..however i note > > > > > in my study..i just let them pass as they come and then they go like > > > > > a log floating down a stream..am i on the right track?..merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > I agree with what Mike says below and would reinforce that in the > > > > > statement you quoted, 'you are your best teacher'... > > > > > > > > > > If 'you' means your self, your ego, your intellect, your dualistic, > > > > > rational mind - then it is definitely not your best teacher (for zen). > > > > > > > > > > But if 'you' means experience, Buddha Nature, the absence of ego, > > > > > itellect, dualism, etc... - then it is definitely your best teacher > > > > > (for zen). > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle,<br/><br/>Depends what you mean by "you". If 'you' means your > > > > > > ego, then absolutely not because the mind will colour things to > > > > > > suit itself. If by 'you' you mean reality, then absolutely yes! And > > > > > > by reality I mean the immediacy of direct experience. Buddha said, > > > > > > "Be a lamp unto yourself". Only you will know if the tea is hot or > > > > > > cold (remember that topic!). A teacher is only a guide and friend. > > > > > > Ultimately only you can workout your own salvation. > > > > > > <br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
