Edgar, As a follow-on to this, what do you consider the difference/distinction between samadhi and nirvana? ...Bill!
--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Edgar, > > I liked your description of the difference between enlightenment and nirvana: > "...enlightenment in which one does not leave the world of forms but just > sees them for what they truly are..." and "In nirvana all forms cease > permanently." > > I agree with that and use the term 'delusions' as a term for your "...see > them for what they truly are...". > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > Mike, > > > > First, the law of karma is nonsense. I'm not defending it, just explaining > > it. > > > > Also as you can see your reply as received was garbled so don't have time > > to wade through it all.. > > > > Yes, karma plays itself out eventually. As to karma suddenly ceasing that's > > only when all forms cease in what is called nirvana which Buddhism in > > general (there are some variant beliefs) takes as cessation of all form. > > Nirvana is a state far beyond enlightenment in which one does not leave the > > world of forms but just sees them for what they truly are, empty forms of > > Buddha Nature. In nirvana all forms cease permanently. > > > > Standard Buddhist doctrine believes that one may eventually work through > > all one's karma through successive reincarnations and eventual escape form > > altogether. > > > > But since there is NO reincarnation the true understanding is that dying is > > equivalent to nirvana, because it is only in death that all forms cease (to > > the dead person) and only in death does one escape the world of forms and > > reach nirvana. At death one's karma automatically ceases whether one is > > good or bad, or enlightened or not. > > > > Sort of crazy that Buddhists take death as the ultimate salvation when seen > > in the proper light..... > > > > That's the proper understanding of karma which properly understood is just > > cause and effect in the world of forms that ceases when one leaves the > > world of forms in death. And also believing that good always beget good and > > evil evil is total nonsense. Maybe slightly above 50% at best depending on > > who is doing the judging.... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 3:07 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > Edgar,<br/><br/>There is no confusion in what I said at all and it also > > > depends on from which tradition you're talking about karma. As I've been > > > taught, karma will indeed play itself out, but only as long as a person > > > still identifies themselves with a self. Upon awakening to our Original > > > Nature (which can happen at any time) karma is extinguished because where > > > is the self for karma to attach to? Unless of course you're getting karma > > > confused with the crazy notion that karma is fatalistic and/or > > > deterministic which would make emancipation from karma > > > impossible.<br/><br/>Here are a few snippets on the subject. There are > > > many, many more out there if you care to do the research..<br/><br/>>He > > > who believes in Karma does not condemn even the most corrupt, for they, > > > too, have their chance to reform themselves ***at any moment*** > > > (buddhanet.net)<<br/><br/>>Since basic nature transcends all duality and > > > is ultimate, there is no one to receive the effect, whether > > > it is good or bad, and no one to whom any effect can apply. Cause and > > > effect, just like birth and death, lose their significance at the > > > Enlightened level because at the level of basic nature there is no one to > > > receive the effect of the Karma, whether it is good or bad. Therefore, at > > > the extreme, when one is Enlightened, the law of Karma is not applicable > > > (angel-fire.com)<<br/><br/>>In the Vajrayana tradition, it is believed > > > that the effects of negative past karma can be "purified" through such > > > practices as meditation on Vajrasattva.[91] The performer of the action, > > > after having purified the karma, does not experience the negative results > > > he or she otherwise would have.[92]<br/>(Wiki)<br/><br/>>The Japanese > > > Tendai/Pure Land teacher Genshin taught that Amida Buddha has the power > > > to destroy the karma that would otherwise bind one in > > > saá¹sÄra.[89][90]<br/><br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for > > > iPad > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
