Don't forget the eightfold way. I have heard it speculated that numbered lists make it easier in an oral tradition to remember stuff, and that the proliferation of numbered items in ancient spiritual traditions, especial Buddhism, are a normal result of a few hundred years of oral transmission.
Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 29, 2013 7:26 AM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Bill, > > I think it's a matter of definition. In general I think excessive concern > with 'stages' of realization is a distraction from realization... And that > goes for standard Buddhism's obsessive with counting all sorts of things as > well. The 7 this, the 5 that, the 8 this etc. etc. > > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 29, 2013, at 2:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > Edgar, > > As you know I don't like to rely too much on Buddhist or Hindu terms > either. > > 'Samadhi' is a meditative state of non-duality or monism. It's what I also > call 'shikantazaza' if you're experiencing it during zazen. It can also be > called no-thought. I associate it strongly with Buddha Nature since there > is no dualism thus no delusion. I know you include delusions in Buddha > Nature, but I'm just explaining my terminology. > > Anyway, if 'samadhi' is a state of pure non-duality how do you think that > equates with 'nirvana'? I'm begining to think the only diffrence is > 'samadhi' is temporary where 'nirvana' is permanent. > > What do you (or anyone else) think? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > I don't use the term and don't really get into all the interminable > Buddhist and HIndu levels and counts of everything anyone could think of... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > As a follow-on to this, what do you consider the > difference/distinction between samadhi and nirvana? ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > I liked your description of the difference between enlightenment and > nirvana: "...enlightenment in which one does not leave the world of forms > but just sees them for what they truly are..." and "In nirvana all forms > cease permanently." > > > > > > > > I agree with that and use the term 'delusions' as a term for your > "...see them for what they truly are...". > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > > > First, the law of karma is nonsense. I'm not defending it, just > explaining it. > > > > > > > > > > Also as you can see your reply as received was garbled so don't > have time to wade through it all.. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, karma plays itself out eventually. As to karma suddenly > ceasing that's only when all forms cease in what is called nirvana which > Buddhism in general (there are some variant beliefs) takes as cessation of > all form. Nirvana is a state far beyond enlightenment in which one does not > leave the world of forms but just sees them for what they truly are, empty > forms of Buddha Nature. In nirvana all forms cease permanently. > > > > > > > > > > Standard Buddhist doctrine believes that one may eventually work > through all one's karma through successive reincarnations and eventual > escape form altogether. > > > > > > > > > > But since there is NO reincarnation the true understanding is that > dying is equivalent to nirvana, because it is only in death that all forms > cease (to the dead person) and only in death does one escape the world of > forms and reach nirvana. At death one's karma automatically ceases whether > one is good or bad, or enlightened or not. > > > > > > > > > > Sort of crazy that Buddhists take death as the ultimate salvation > when seen in the proper light..... > > > > > > > > > > That's the proper understanding of karma which properly understood > is just cause and effect in the world of forms that ceases when one leaves > the world of forms in death. And also believing that good always beget good > and evil evil is total nonsense. Maybe slightly above 50% at best depending > on who is doing the judging.... > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 3:07 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar,<br/><br/>There is no confusion in what I said at all and > it also depends on from which tradition you're talking about karma. As I've > been taught, karma will indeed play itself out, but only as long as a > person still identifies themselves with a self. Upon awakening to our > Original Nature (which can happen at any time) karma is extinguished > because where is the self for karma to attach to? Unless of course you're > getting karma confused with the crazy notion that karma is fatalistic > and/or deterministic which would make emancipation from karma > impossible.<br/><br/>Here are a few snippets on the subject. There are > many, many more out there if you care to do the research..<br/><br/>>He who > believes in Karma does not condemn even the most corrupt, for they, too, > have their chance to reform themselves ***at any moment*** > (buddhanet.net)<<br/><br/>>Since > basic nature transcends all duality and is ultimate, there is no one to > receive the effect, whether > > > > > > it is good or bad, and no one to whom any effect can apply. > Cause and effect, just like birth and death, lose their significance at the > Enlightened level because at the level of basic nature there is no one to > receive the effect of the Karma, whether it is good or bad. Therefore, at > the extreme, when one is Enlightened, the law of Karma is not applicable ( > angel-fire.com)<<br/><br/>>In the Vajrayana tradition, it is believed > that the effects of negative past karma can be "purified" through such > practices as meditation on Vajrasattva.[91] The performer of the action, > after having purified the karma, does not experience the negative results > he or she otherwise would have.[92]<br/>(Wiki)<br/><br/>>The Japanese > Tendai/Pure Land teacher Genshin taught that Amida Buddha has the power to > destroy the karma that would otherwise bind one in > saṃsāra.[89][90]<br/><br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
