Bill, I think it's a matter of definition. In general I think excessive concern with 'stages' of realization is a distraction from realization... And that goes for standard Buddhism's obsessive with counting all sorts of things as well. The 7 this, the 5 that, the 8 this etc. etc.
Edgar On Jun 29, 2013, at 2:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > As you know I don't like to rely too much on Buddhist or Hindu terms either. > > 'Samadhi' is a meditative state of non-duality or monism. It's what I also > call 'shikantazaza' if you're experiencing it during zazen. It can also be > called no-thought. I associate it strongly with Buddha Nature since there is > no dualism thus no delusion. I know you include delusions in Buddha Nature, > but I'm just explaining my terminology. > > Anyway, if 'samadhi' is a state of pure non-duality how do you think that > equates with 'nirvana'? I'm begining to think the only diffrence is 'samadhi' > is temporary where 'nirvana' is permanent. > > What do you (or anyone else) think? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > I don't use the term and don't really get into all the interminable > > Buddhist and HIndu levels and counts of everything anyone could think of... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > As a follow-on to this, what do you consider the difference/distinction > > > between samadhi and nirvana? ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > I liked your description of the difference between enlightenment and > > > > nirvana: "...enlightenment in which one does not leave the world of > > > > forms but just sees them for what they truly are..." and "In nirvana > > > > all forms cease permanently." > > > > > > > > I agree with that and use the term 'delusions' as a term for your > > > > "...see them for what they truly are...". > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > > > First, the law of karma is nonsense. I'm not defending it, just > > > > > explaining it. > > > > > > > > > > Also as you can see your reply as received was garbled so don't have > > > > > time to wade through it all.. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, karma plays itself out eventually. As to karma suddenly ceasing > > > > > that's only when all forms cease in what is called nirvana which > > > > > Buddhism in general (there are some variant beliefs) takes as > > > > > cessation of all form. Nirvana is a state far beyond enlightenment in > > > > > which one does not leave the world of forms but just sees them for > > > > > what they truly are, empty forms of Buddha Nature. In nirvana all > > > > > forms cease permanently. > > > > > > > > > > Standard Buddhist doctrine believes that one may eventually work > > > > > through all one's karma through successive reincarnations and > > > > > eventual escape form altogether. > > > > > > > > > > But since there is NO reincarnation the true understanding is that > > > > > dying is equivalent to nirvana, because it is only in death that all > > > > > forms cease (to the dead person) and only in death does one escape > > > > > the world of forms and reach nirvana. At death one's karma > > > > > automatically ceases whether one is good or bad, or enlightened or > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > > Sort of crazy that Buddhists take death as the ultimate salvation > > > > > when seen in the proper light..... > > > > > > > > > > That's the proper understanding of karma which properly understood is > > > > > just cause and effect in the world of forms that ceases when one > > > > > leaves the world of forms in death. And also believing that good > > > > > always beget good and evil evil is total nonsense. Maybe slightly > > > > > above 50% at best depending on who is doing the judging.... > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 3:07 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar,<br/><br/>There is no confusion in what I said at all and it > > > > > > also depends on from which tradition you're talking about karma. As > > > > > > I've been taught, karma will indeed play itself out, but only as > > > > > > long as a person still identifies themselves with a self. Upon > > > > > > awakening to our Original Nature (which can happen at any time) > > > > > > karma is extinguished because where is the self for karma to attach > > > > > > to? Unless of course you're getting karma confused with the crazy > > > > > > notion that karma is fatalistic and/or deterministic which would > > > > > > make emancipation from karma impossible.<br/><br/>Here are a few > > > > > > snippets on the subject. There are many, many more out there if you > > > > > > care to do the research..<br/><br/>>He who believes in Karma does > > > > > > not condemn even the most corrupt, for they, too, have their chance > > > > > > to reform themselves ***at any moment*** > > > > > > (buddhanet.net)<<br/><br/>>Since basic nature transcends all > > > > > > duality and is ultimate, there is no one to receive the effect, > > > > > > whether > > > > > > it is good or bad, and no one to whom any effect can apply. Cause > > > > > > and effect, just like birth and death, lose their significance at > > > > > > the Enlightened level because at the level of basic nature there is > > > > > > no one to receive the effect of the Karma, whether it is good or > > > > > > bad. Therefore, at the extreme, when one is Enlightened, the law of > > > > > > Karma is not applicable (angel-fire.com)<<br/><br/>>In the > > > > > > Vajrayana tradition, it is believed that the effects of negative > > > > > > past karma can be "purified" through such practices as meditation > > > > > > on Vajrasattva.[91] The performer of the action, after having > > > > > > purified the karma, does not experience the negative results he or > > > > > > she otherwise would have.[92]<br/>(Wiki)<br/><br/>>The Japanese > > > > > > Tendai/Pure Land teacher Genshin taught that Amida Buddha has the > > > > > > power to destroy the karma that would otherwise bind one in > > > > > > saṃsāra.[89][90]<br/><br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail > > > > > > for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
