Chris, Yes, that could well be...
Edgar On Jun 29, 2013, at 7:31 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > Don't forget the eightfold way. > > I have heard it speculated that numbered lists make it easier in an oral > tradition to remember stuff, and that the proliferation of numbered items in > ancient spiritual traditions, especial Buddhism, are a normal result of a > few hundred years of oral transmission. > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On Jun 29, 2013 7:26 AM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Bill, > > I think it's a matter of definition. In general I think excessive concern > with 'stages' of realization is a distraction from realization... And that > goes for standard Buddhism's obsessive with counting all sorts of things as > well. The 7 this, the 5 that, the 8 this etc. etc. > > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 29, 2013, at 2:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > >> >> Edgar, >> >> As you know I don't like to rely too much on Buddhist or Hindu terms either. >> >> 'Samadhi' is a meditative state of non-duality or monism. It's what I also >> call 'shikantazaza' if you're experiencing it during zazen. It can also be >> called no-thought. I associate it strongly with Buddha Nature since there is >> no dualism thus no delusion. I know you include delusions in Buddha Nature, >> but I'm just explaining my terminology. >> >> Anyway, if 'samadhi' is a state of pure non-duality how do you think that >> equates with 'nirvana'? I'm begining to think the only diffrence is >> 'samadhi' is temporary where 'nirvana' is permanent. >> >> What do you (or anyone else) think? >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >> > >> > Bill, >> > >> > I don't use the term and don't really get into all the interminable >> > Buddhist and HIndu levels and counts of everything anyone could think of... >> > >> > Edgar >> > >> > >> > >> > On Jun 28, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Bill! wrote: >> > >> > > Edgar, >> > > >> > > As a follow-on to this, what do you consider the difference/distinction >> > > between samadhi and nirvana? ...Bill! >> > > >> > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Edgar, >> > > > >> > > > I liked your description of the difference between enlightenment and >> > > > nirvana: "...enlightenment in which one does not leave the world of >> > > > forms but just sees them for what they truly are..." and "In nirvana >> > > > all forms cease permanently." >> > > > >> > > > I agree with that and use the term 'delusions' as a term for your >> > > > "...see them for what they truly are...". >> > > > >> > > > ...Bill! >> > > > >> > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Mike, >> > > > > >> > > > > First, the law of karma is nonsense. I'm not defending it, just >> > > > > explaining it. >> > > > > >> > > > > Also as you can see your reply as received was garbled so don't have >> > > > > time to wade through it all.. >> > > > > >> > > > > Yes, karma plays itself out eventually. As to karma suddenly ceasing >> > > > > that's only when all forms cease in what is called nirvana which >> > > > > Buddhism in general (there are some variant beliefs) takes as >> > > > > cessation of all form. Nirvana is a state far beyond enlightenment >> > > > > in which one does not leave the world of forms but just sees them >> > > > > for what they truly are, empty forms of Buddha Nature. In nirvana >> > > > > all forms cease permanently. >> > > > > >> > > > > Standard Buddhist doctrine believes that one may eventually work >> > > > > through all one's karma through successive reincarnations and >> > > > > eventual escape form altogether. >> > > > > >> > > > > But since there is NO reincarnation the true understanding is that >> > > > > dying is equivalent to nirvana, because it is only in death that all >> > > > > forms cease (to the dead person) and only in death does one escape >> > > > > the world of forms and reach nirvana. At death one's karma >> > > > > automatically ceases whether one is good or bad, or enlightened or >> > > > > not. >> > > > > >> > > > > Sort of crazy that Buddhists take death as the ultimate salvation >> > > > > when seen in the proper light..... >> > > > > >> > > > > That's the proper understanding of karma which properly understood >> > > > > is just cause and effect in the world of forms that ceases when one >> > > > > leaves the world of forms in death. And also believing that good >> > > > > always beget good and evil evil is total nonsense. Maybe slightly >> > > > > above 50% at best depending on who is doing the judging.... >> > > > > >> > > > > Edgar >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 3:07 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > Edgar,<br/><br/>There is no confusion in what I said at all and it >> > > > > > also depends on from which tradition you're talking about karma. >> > > > > > As I've been taught, karma will indeed play itself out, but only >> > > > > > as long as a person still identifies themselves with a self. Upon >> > > > > > awakening to our Original Nature (which can happen at any time) >> > > > > > karma is extinguished because where is the self for karma to >> > > > > > attach to? Unless of course you're getting karma confused with the >> > > > > > crazy notion that karma is fatalistic and/or deterministic which >> > > > > > would make emancipation from karma impossible.<br/><br/>Here are a >> > > > > > few snippets on the subject. There are many, many more out there >> > > > > > if you care to do the research..<br/><br/>>He who believes in >> > > > > > Karma does not condemn even the most corrupt, for they, too, have >> > > > > > their chance to reform themselves ***at any moment*** >> > > > > > (buddhanet.net)<<br/><br/>>Since basic nature transcends all >> > > > > > duality and is ultimate, there is no one to receive the effect, >> > > > > > whether >> > > > > > it is good or bad, and no one to whom any effect can apply. Cause >> > > > > > and effect, just like birth and death, lose their significance at >> > > > > > the Enlightened level because at the level of basic nature there >> > > > > > is no one to receive the effect of the Karma, whether it is good >> > > > > > or bad. Therefore, at the extreme, when one is Enlightened, the >> > > > > > law of Karma is not applicable (angel-fire.com)<<br/><br/>>In the >> > > > > > Vajrayana tradition, it is believed that the effects of negative >> > > > > > past karma can be "purified" through such practices as meditation >> > > > > > on Vajrasattva.[91] The performer of the action, after having >> > > > > > purified the karma, does not experience the negative results he or >> > > > > > she otherwise would have.[92]<br/>(Wiki)<br/><br/>>The Japanese >> > > > > > Tendai/Pure Land teacher Genshin taught that Amida Buddha has the >> > > > > > power to destroy the karma that would otherwise bind one in >> > > > > > saṃsāra.[89][90]<br/><br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail >> > > > > > for iPad >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >
