Bill, The point is that Bill's "just this" is something produced by complex sensory and cognitive processes. It does NOT correspond to raw reality as he would have us believe. It's the RESULT of a very complex sequence of processes.
That's why Bill's just this is actually "just this ILLUSION mistaken for reality".... True you don't experience reality like this. Because you ARE NOT EXPERIENCING REALITY AT ALL! Edgar On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:14 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Edgar, > > But you don't experience reality like that. Do you have to understand the > endocrine system to take a pee? > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] "It's as plain as the nose on your face" ... but how plain > is that? > Sent: Sun, Jul 7, 2013 12:58:56 PM > > > Bill, > > > That's very bad biology. There are 3 general stages involved. Raw sensory > experience which occurs separately in each different sense organ. There is > considerable pre-processing there where eg. edges and motion are > preferentially detected. 2nd there is perception in the optic lobes, 3rd the > brain itself makes what is perceived into objects in the context of one's > internal model of reality. > > You can't just make things up that are contrary to the way biology actually > works... > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Bill! wrote: > >> >> Edgar, >> >> What's causing confusion is you continue to look at experience only from a >> pluralistic POV. From a pluralistic POV there is a distinction between >> sight, sound, taste, smell and touch. From a monistic POV there is no >> distinction. It's just experience. Experience is only separated into the >> different senses when pluralism arises along with perception. It's then that >> you see, hear, taste, smell and touch. Before pluralism there is just >> experience - Just THIS! >> >> It doesn't matter if my perception is different (worse or better - like >> eyesight or hearing) than yours. For example blurry vision doesn't produce a >> different experience than clear vision. The vision being blurry or clear is >> a perception, not an experience. The same goes for vision and touch. If a >> person is blind but can feel then they are sentient and do experience; BUT a >> blind person or deaf person does not have the same perception as a person >> who sees and hears well. >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >> > >> > So why is the experience of you different from someone who needs glasses, >> > or a blind person? >> > >> > Which has the 'true' experience of the 'true' reality? >> > >> > Which is the true 'just this' when you have 3 different just thises? >> > >> > Edgar >> > >> > >> > >> > On Jul 7, 2013, at 6:46 AM, Bill! wrote: >> > >> > > Edgar, >> > > >> > > Experience (awareness of the 'real world') is not dependent upon >> > > eyeglasses, corneas or eyes. It is however dependent upon what we call >> > > senses. If you were not sentient then you could not experience and would >> > > have no awareness. >> > > >> > > There would be nothing. >> > > >> > > ...Bill! >> > > >> > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Panda, >> > > > >> > > > Good point. Which is the REAL world Bill. With or without glasses? >> > > > With or without corneas? With or without eyes? >> > > > >> > > > After all reality does NOT consist of focused light images of >> > > > 'things'.... >> > > > >> > > > Edgar >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 1:43 AM, pandabananasock wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Are you wearing glasses right now? >> > > > > Can you see the frames in your periphery? >> > > > > Did you see them before I asked? >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >
