you could try that, but it'd just be more of the same. 10,000 things and counting...
Hong On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > > > Mike, > > OK, I finally managed to pick myself up off the floor! > > What difference does it make?????? > > OK, I hope I really have managed to stop laughing now..... > > Try stepping on a piece of rope and then a rattlesnake and maybe, just > maybe, you might understand the difference! > > Jeeeez.... > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:44 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Edgar, > > Sorry, I'm not following. What difference does it make whether it's a > snake or a piece of rope if thats what I sincerely perceive at the time? > It's my reaction that is important. > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > * To: * <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] "It's as plain as the nose on your face" ... but > how plain is that? > * Sent: * Sun, Jul 7, 2013 2:25:37 PM > > > > Mike, > > Funny! Because Bill's (and now apparently your) "just this" at night would > have been the snake that was really a piece of rope! > > That's why "just this" JUST doesn't cut it. I can imagine Bill at the > magic show yelling "just this" as every illusion is performed believing > they are all real because they are his direct experience! > > By claiming the immediate experience of "just this" is reality you mistake > illusion for reality..... In the cases above it's obvious, but if you > understand the biology of perception you understand it happens EVERY > TIME.... > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:50 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Edgar, > > There many gold standards for what reality is, but surely what we > experience as humans is all we have to go on? If I see a snake at night, > how I react at that time is far more important than in the morning > realising it was just a piece of old rope. > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > * To: * <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] "It's as plain as the nose on your face" ... but > how plain is that? > * Sent: * Sun, Jul 7, 2013 1:29:39 PM > > > > Bill, > > The point is that Bill's "just this" is something produced by complex > sensory and cognitive processes. It does NOT correspond to raw reality as > he would have us believe. It's the RESULT of a very complex sequence of > processes. > > That's why Bill's just this is actually "just this ILLUSION mistaken for > reality".... > > True you don't experience reality like this. Because you ARE NOT > EXPERIENCING REALITY AT ALL! > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:14 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Edgar, > > But you don't experience reality like that. Do you have to understand the > endocrine system to take a pee? > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > * To: * <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] "It's as plain as the nose on your face" ... but > how plain is that? > * Sent: * Sun, Jul 7, 2013 12:58:56 PM > > > > Bill, > > That's very bad biology. There are 3 general stages involved. Raw sensory > experience which occurs separately in each different sense organ. There is > considerable pre-processing there where eg. edges and motion are > preferentially detected. 2nd there is perception in the optic lobes, 3rd > the brain itself makes what is perceived into objects in the context of > one's internal model of reality. > > You can't just make things up that are contrary to the way biology > actually works... > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > Edgar, > > What's causing confusion is you continue to look at experience only from a > pluralistic POV. From a pluralistic POV there is a distinction between > sight, sound, taste, smell and touch. From a monistic POV there is no > distinction. It's just experience. Experience is only separated into the > different senses when pluralism arises along with perception. It's then > that you see, hear, taste, smell and touch. Before pluralism there is just > experience - Just THIS! > > It doesn't matter if my perception is different (worse or better - like > eyesight or hearing) than yours. For example blurry vision doesn't produce > a different experience than clear vision. The vision being blurry or clear > is a perception, not an experience. The same goes for vision and touch. If > a person is blind but can feel then they are sentient and do experience; > BUT a blind person or deaf person does not have the same perception as a > person who sees and hears well. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > So why is the experience of you different from someone who needs > glasses, or a blind person? > > > > Which has the 'true' experience of the 'true' reality? > > > > Which is the true 'just this' when you have 3 different just thises? > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 6:46 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > Experience (awareness of the 'real world') is not dependent upon > eyeglasses, corneas or eyes. It is however dependent upon what we call > senses. If you were not sentient then you could not experience and would > have no awareness. > > > > > > There would be nothing. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Panda, > > > > > > > > Good point. Which is the REAL world Bill. With or without glasses? > With or without corneas? With or without eyes? > > > > > > > > After all reality does NOT consist of focused light images of > 'things'.... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 1:43 AM, pandabananasock wrote: > > > > > > > > > Are you wearing glasses right now? > > > > > Can you see the frames in your periphery? > > > > > Did you see them before I asked? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
