Hi wai, --- wai_dk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Haha... funny indeed. And do you happen to know that > part of Zen is > also to just reflect like a mirror, which you just > did. You plunged > into Zen while trying to avoid it. Funny how these > things work, eh?
A very keen observation. But you know, I�m not trying to avoid Zen. Zen is in my bones. Without Zen, I would never be able to function from my satori. I�m only questioning some practices that many Zen people I know suggest. Like, mostly to take something for granted. Whatever it is, you must destroy it and rebuild it anew in this very moment. Not a trace of anything should be carried over as a residual habit or wisdom. That, to me, is what Zen is all about. Also, Zen is not about whether I should save myself first and then take care of others, or whether I should wait until everyone is saved. That�s just a pile of superstitious bullcrap. Zen transcends that entire charade. Anyone who has any genuine experience in Zen practice knows that it�s not about saving anyone or anything. > I would think that after we have crossed the river, > we are still on > the river but at the shoreline. > To get up to the shore, we must *first* abandon the > raft. If we > continue to keep the raft, then we can't move up the > shore (because > the raft is too heavy and shores don't like rafts), > so we will still > be stuck in the river. Ha, what do you know? Touche! > Actually, the raft-less raft is the Zen way: > When you drop the raft > You will at once realize that, > You have *always* been on the other shore, > Where is the river, much less the crossing? Still, you must fabricate the beings, the river, the two shores, the raft. Seeing how there is nothing, you create everything from scratch. Then destroy it. Then create again. Breathe in, breathe out. Isn�t that Zen? > But if we are attached to "no raft, no shore, no > river, no crossing", > then we'll have a problem too. So how? See above. Also, see the tenth picture in �Taming the Bull� (or, �Herding the Ox�). Reflect on upaya. > Not disqualifying the finger, never did. > But when looking at the finger, we should look at > WHERE IT IS > POINTING, instead of analyzing how long or how short > the finger is, > how fat or how thin, what colour and what shape. You got it, brother. To the victor go the spoils. > The above is just metaphorical. Talking is of course > part of living, > so is everything else. > But can we satisfy our hunger by just talking about > food? Oddly enough, yes. This is what Nagarjuna taught. If you don�t believe me (and why should you?), study his gospel of love. > Enjoy reading your posts too. Thanks. I�m glad you didn�t let the superficial buzz distract you. I can only hope that we�ll be given a chance to educate and inform each other. > Not in an organised fashion? I suppose this is not > something that > anyone can truly verify with any certainty at all. > Perhaps you mean > not widely practised, which I might agree. I think that in the Buddha�s time, things weren�t as ripe for a fully blown Zen practice. People were still living lives that were too sensual, bodily-pleasure oriented (what I like to call the �free-range mind� lifestyle). With the subsequent progress, humanity gotten to be more cultivated (in the sense that more people got trained to read, write, to use their cerebral capacity), so Zen became a possibility. Today, most of us are perfectly fit for undergoing the most strenuous Zen training. I doubt that was the case with general population 2,500 years ago. Otherwise, the Buddha would�ve taught systematized Zen at that time, I�m convinced of it. > When Buddha transmitted the Zen lineage to > Mahakasyapa, He said, "I > have a special transmission outside the doctrinal > teachings, not > dependent on words, this I give to Mahakasyapa." I > also understand > that Nagarjuna is the 14th Zen Patriach in the > Indian Zen Lineage. > So why be so anti-Zen? I�m absolutely no anti-Zen (as I�ve already explained at the beginning of this post). I�m just saying that a handful of brilliant individuals paved the way for us, average guys, to enjoy this practice. Zen is OK only if it is practiced with abandon. Zen is not your spiritual insurance policy. It is not merely another �just in case� spirtual insurance policy. It demands your whole life. Once you give your very life away, �just in case� instantly becomes meaningless. Just in case what? You�re already dead, so what�s there to worry about? > The Chinese Zen Sixth Patriach Hui Neng said (in the > Platform > Sutra), "To those who belong to other schools, and > whose views and > objects are different from ours (the Sudden school), > the dharma > should not be transmitted, since it will be anything > but good for > them. This step is taken lest ignorant persons who > cannot understand > our system should make slanderous remarks about it > and thereby > annihilate their seed of Buddha-nature for hundreds > of kalpas and > thousands of incarnations." > So if you can't accept Zen, then just leave it > alone. I think it's > better that you do not be critical of Zen (or even > Varajyana, > Pureland, Vipassana, etc.) lest you accumulate > negative karma and > annihilate your seed of Buddha-nature for a very > long time. The seed of Buddha-nature is just another superstitious concept. There is no such thing. The first thing you learn when you break through the koans is that your master is selling water by the river. What Buddha-nature? Are you standing aside from anything? If you are, then you can see the Buddha-nature. In which case, you�re hopeless (because you're damaged). If you�re not standing aside from anything, you naturally cannot see Buddha-nature. So, what is wrong? > Thanks for your reply, and your insights. Same here. > Much negative karma is produced from blasphemous > posts I know. But you�re not going to reap it. Alex ===== No karma was produced during the composition of this letter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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