Replying to your post (in which you wrote: "Insight meaning, "clearly seeing that all five aggregates are empty", as the Heart Sutra begins."), I've asked you what are the aggregates empty of. You've replied that they are empty of, and I quote:
"Empty of self, empty of permanence, empty of ultimate satisfaction.(anatta, anicca, dukkha, respectively)." >From the above I gather that you meant that the aggregates are empty of, among other things, dukkha. With that I wholeheartedly agree, not only in the sense that I wholeheartedly agree with Heart Sutra, but also that I agree with your interpretation of that sutra. The point of contention here is only your translation of the word dukkha. You chose to translate it as 'ultimate satisfaction'. That caught me by surprise, because I've never heard anyone use that translation. All the sources I'm aware of insist that dukkha means the exact opposite -- ultimate dissatisfaction. So I was just curious about your line of reasoning. Thanks for ellucidating on it. On 4/26/05, Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yeah. :) That's my little contribution to Buddhist terminology. Maybe > it's not a good idea. It's usually translated as "suffering" of > course. However, this automatically raises the question - how are really > pleasant experiences suffering? Because the Buddha did say that *all* > conditioned things are dukkha. Which just leaves nirvana as the > exception. But being in a really blissful state, say... this is suffering? > Sure doesn't seem like it. And in fact there are high meditative > absorptive states which are free of any trace of what we normally call > "suffering." They are, nevertheless, dukkha. > > This is because "dukkha" apparently has a wider meaning than just the > English word "suffering." Walpola Rahula in "What the Buddha Taught" does > a great job of explaining all this. I'm really just repeating his > observations on this. So here's what he says: > > "The conception of dukkha may be viewed from three aspects: 1) dukkha as > ordinary suffering (dukkha-dukkha) 2) dukkha as produced by change > (viparinama-dukkha) and 3) dukkha as conditioned states (samkhara-dukkha)." > > So I came up with "not ultimately satisfactory" as a compromise attempting > to cover all aspects. > > I *knew* this was a test. :) > > Ian > > >On 4/26/05, Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Empty of self, empty of permanence, empty of ultimate satisfaction. > > > (anatta, anicca, dukkha, respectively). > > > >Since when is dukkha 'ultimate satisfaction'? > > > Current Book Discussion: Appreciate Your Life by Taizan Maezumi Roshi. New or > used at: > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570622280/ref=ase_actionheroesc-20/002-4507763-9442460?v=glance&s=books> > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/hjtSRD/3MnJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Current Book Discussion: Appreciate Your Life by Taizan Maezumi Roshi. New or used at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570622280/ref=ase_actionheroesc-20/002-4507763-9442460?v=glance&s=books> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
