my my, i must be getting old. it is so long ago that i cannot remember when i last heard the word 'objective correlative' but surely it doesnot have anything to do with sisters in law?
umashankar >From: ronnie banerjee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [ZESTPoets] poemette >Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:39:48 +0100 (BST) > > >I like the assault on the romantics. But no I shall not insult the >intelligence of most in this group. Eliot was a thorough Classicist with an >obsession for the "Objective co-relative". I think that is a known fact. > >And so I prefer not to presume the imagination of the reader. The Poem is >about the poet and of his/her ability to reduce imagery to words to the >extent possible. > >Jane - ur influence in our group is profound. But no Philip Larkin (I >really do love his heresies committed through poetry) can measure upto >Eliot. Vagueness cannot be justified under the guise of supporting the >imagination of that "unknown reader". > >And surprisingly it was u Jane who did not like the word - "crotch" in an >earlier poem posted in this mail group. I think u did betray romanticism >there - please do consider the following from Philip Larkin- > >"your mom and dad they fuck u up...." > >Now i like that but - do u like it Jane mon cher >Inspired by this I shall be posting one "pornographic" soon. > >regards to all > >Ronnie > > Imran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Wow! Great discussion! > >To be too explicit is to leave the reader with nothing to do but absorb >your image, which insults his intelligence. He should be able to add a >couple of layers of his own. > > > > >This is something i need to learn : )... > >I hated Shelley as a teenager, so embarassingly romantic. And those >picturesque cobblestones are extremely slippery and death on stiletto >heels. As a teenager I lived in a small town in the Lake District (beloved >by Shelley, Wordsworh, Keats, Coleridge, etc, etc) at the peak of the >Beatles and stiletto heels...I think boys still blushed, in those days. > >This is very funny... I have been trying to make myself like the Romantics >since I can remember; but I never could. I always found them a bit too >mushy... But everyone else was always in such raptures about Romantic >poets. So I convinced myself that I must be lacking the superior >sensibility to appreciate them. I guess now it is okay to admit that I >hardly ever understand most of them, and rarely like any of them... > > > > >jane bhandari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >No Ronnie dear, > > It's not a poemette, just the last stanza from an earlier one...I was >talking about the process of whittling down a poem to its bare bones. >Though actually it does work even when divorced from its partner. > >I had posted a poem earlier about yellowing leaves, but puhleeeze...you >should assume they have yellowed!!!! It's in the nature of dead leaves to >be sere and yellow, you just don't have to keep saying so. What's nice >about poetry is the amount of stuff you can leave unsaid...The best >pornography is the kind that leaves lots to the imagination - and that goes >for almost everything else. To be too explicit is to leave the reader with >nothing to do but absorb your image, which insults his intelligence. He >should be able to add a couple of layers of his own. > >I hated Shelley as a teenager, so embarassingly romantic. And those >picturesque cobblestones are extremely slippery and death on stiletto >heels. As a teenager I lived in a small town in the Lake District (beloved >by Shelley, Wordsworh, Keats, Coleridge, etc, etc) at the peak of the >Beatles and stiletto heels...I think boys still blushed, in those days. > >I prefer Eliot to shelley, but even his view is quite romantic, especially >the bit about the cab horse. Which period was he writing about? Perhaps a >childhood memory of a grimy London suburb. Try Philip Larkin's The Whitsun >Weddings, very sixties, and to me, more evocative of my romantic years. >I quote the second stanza: > >All afternoon, through the tall heat that slept >For miles inland, >A slow and stopping curve southwards we kept. >Wide farms went by, short-shadowed cattle, and >Canals with floatings of industrial froth; >A hothouse flashed uniquely: hedges dipped >And rose: and now and then a smell of grass >Displaced the reek of buttoned carriage-cloth >Until the next town, new and nondescript, >Approached with acres of dismantled cars. > >(Philip Larkin: The Whitsun Weddings) > >Um. Hope you liked it. >Jane > >ronnie banerjee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Jane - do i get a bit of Shelley in ur new(?) poemette- > >"O West wind >thou breath of Autumn's being >thou from whose unseen presence >the leaves dead are driven >like ghosts from an enchanter fleeing...." > >Great poem Jane! but i would rather have the leaves littered on a cobbled >windswept pavement. and the leaves have to be yellowing isn't it? and the >pavement slightly wet.. >remember Eliot? > >the winter evening settles down >with smells of steaks in passageways >Six o'clock >the burnt out ends of smoky days >and now a gusty shower wraps >the grimy scraps >of withered leaves about your feet >and newspaper from vacant lots >the showers beat >on broken blinds and chimney pots > and by the corner of the street > a lonely cab horse steams and stamps >and then the lighting of the lamps.. >regards >Ron > > >After the first gales, leaves lie across the grass >Like corpses, whispering death in ghostly voices, >And the wind keens through the empty branches, >Sharpening their edges against the bitter sky, >Cutting it into a grey shroud for dead summer. > > > > >--------------------------------- >How much free photo storage do you get? 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