Hash: SHA1

Warning: This is gonna be ranty and will almost certainly contain foul language. ;-)

I've never actually seen a deprecation warning emitted for zLOG. And I'm about as "in the loop" as anybody could expect someone to be, but I've not actually worked on the core for maybe six months. This is because I've been trying to ship a long-term customer project, which we've settled on 2.8 for, and I haven't been keeping a close eye on the checkins list. Yes, I know. I know. I'm bad. But all of you have been there before, I'm pretty sure, so I hope you can sympathize.

There was a message sent to the list about deprecating zLOG on January 8 of this year by Andreas, but it was supposed to have been deprecated in 2.10, not any 2.9 release, and was supposed to have gone away in 2.12, not in 2.11, as the currently 2.9 deprecation warnings for zLOG state. And why the should the core emit a deprecation warning? If the core uses it, it by definition shouldn't (*can't*) be deprecated. What's the goal here? Removing zLOG is (at least by any sane measure) totally gratuitous in the first place, we have conflicting reports about which version it's going to be deprecated in, and it's not even actually deprecated! This is the definition of a clusterfuck.

Yes, I know. I should have spoken up earlier about zLOG. But to be honest I'm just barely keeping my head above water as it is, so I'm hoping to be able to trust that people make wise decisions about this sort of thing, and my main defense mechanism at this point is limited to covering my eyes and hoping everything will turn out ok. I'm hoping that people won't removing some random API for the sake of a hard-on over a Platonic ideal. Is that unreasonable?

So, anyway, I have a really significant number of released products that make use of zLOG. I can't keep up with the release cycle, or the deprecations. These products will likely just be broken for new Zope releases and will emit warning messages for stable branches for some period of time. People are gonna be pissed. But there's not much I can do about it short of just giving up maintainership of those products to someone who is able and willing to keep up. There's only like, what, maybe 20 people who have demonstrated willingness to maintain the *core*, so it's a pretty fat chance of me finding one of those people to maintain my stuff.

The time-based release cycle just amplifies this across many branches and point releases, so nobody really knows which products work with what branch/release and under what configuration some feature is supposed to emit a deprecation warning without a good deal of testing. The *reason* I'm stuck back on 2.8 and haven't upgraded the products I maintain to behave nicely on 2.9+ is because I just can't keep the fuck up with these sorts of changes. It's a self- perpetuating cycle because the only sane defensive maneuver for me is to stick with 2.8 for existing customer projects. I say to myself that I'll move them to 2.9 or 2.10, or 2.11, or whatever happens to be the current release once I get a chance to breathe, but honestly, this is the *last* thing I'll do; I've got plenty of other coding to do.

There *have* to be other people in the same boat as I am. Speak up if so! Zope 2 is really just not the place to make sweeping innovations. We are losing working products as a result of these "innovations", and as a result, probably developers, and as a result of that, end users. In general we are being *way*, *way*, *way* too aggressive about deprecations and API changes in Zope 2. Sometimes you just need to live with your mistakes. I'd hope that people will try to be conservative in the future. For my part, I'll try to be more in the loop on that sort of stuff on the maillist and try to call bullshit more often and more on-time (mea culpa on that).

- - C

On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:39 AM, Andreas Jung wrote:

--On 14. Juni 2006 10:28:08 +0200 Jens Vagelpohl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

For me, the fact that Zope 2.9.3 still emits
deprecation warnings on a fresh install (zLOG...) is a pretty bad

I think this is a dead horse now. Some things were deprecated without
actually converting all instances where the deprecated code was in use.
It's in your power to do something about it, go ahead.

Right. As a rule we must fix any code in the Zope core that would possibly spit out a deprecation warning caused by a deprecation warning. At least for zLOG in Zope 2.9 we (possibly only me) were not totally consequent.

Zope-Dev maillist  -  Zope-Dev@zope.org
**  No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists -
 http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )

Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin)

Zope-Dev maillist  -  Zope-Dev@zope.org
**  No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )

Reply via email to