If you spent more time just *learning* Zope and HTML, etc and less time rationalizing your lack of progress everyone would be happy.


John Poltorak wrote:
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 03:15:33PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:29:20PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote:

It probably is very useful, but I know I'd get hopelessly lost because 
there is just so much stuff on it.
So you prefer to ignore it?

Just how much time should you spend on something when you are deriving no 
benefit just increasing frustration?

Granted, has flaws. It's harder to find stuff than it
should be.  Nevertheless, browsing that site, along with reading the
Zope book (the old print version), was instrumental in getting me from
knowing nothing, to the point where I became a full-time zope developer.
We didn't even have the great resource of back then.
Use that too, zopewiki is your friend.
There are tons of good links from

Thanks. I'll check that.
In general, I don't know how you expect to make any progress when your
typical response to the (many) suggestions you receive on this list is
"I can't read that, it's too much work".

If I spend a couple of days on something and make no progress, I'd say 
it's 'too much work'. Wouldn't you.

I was on a course over the weekend where ordinary people in their 70's 
with no technical ability were knocking together websites in just a few 
hours with no prior training and no understanding of the 
underlying concepts involved. Why should Zope be just as easy?

Most of the newbie stuff about macros 
is probably quite old by now so I doubt whether I'd find it with a 
sequential browse through the Cookbook. 
"probably"? "doubt"? 

It's disappointing to find that the link from Newbies under the ZOPE 
section does not function.
True that. I don't know what happened to
What I really need is something like a ZPT macro which defines a header 
and footer and leaves a slot in the middle for my own content. I don't  
expect to be able to write my own macro for quite a while - too many 
pitfalls... I'm not even sure is that is how I should be approaching 
writing a home page.
Have you tried the tutorial that comes with Zope?
It includes at least one simple example of macros - see lesson 4.

Not sure how to run the tutorial?  The default index_html for a new Zope 
server tells you:

"""There is a built-in interactive Zope Tutorial which gets you started
with some simple tasks using the Zope managment interface. To use the
tutorial, go to any Folder and select Zope Tutorial from the add list
and click the Add button. Provide a name for the tutorial and click Add
to begin working with the tutorial.

There is a quantum leap between the tutorial and being able to do anything 
useful with a website. What the tutorial needs to to handhold you through 
putting together something like the homepage of

Paul Winkler


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