Fair enough about me blaming Zope when Plone is the likely issue (I
actually meant the system as a whole,  but that's my bad for not
thinking and writing clearly). As for the effort required to get to
the bottom of these issues, then we are in agreement; I won't take the
time to do so either (at least not right now -- too many other
prorities). I was hoping that someone had made that effort already and
had reached some general conclusions they would share (other than the
ones already offered).

Thanks again,

Jean

On 2/25/07, Jens Vagelpohl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
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On 25 Feb 2007, at 20:07, Jean Lagarde wrote:

> 3) As for all the baggage that might be tied to an object in the ZODB,
> I will admit a lot of naivete there, but Zope's behavior should not be
> black magic. In the end, behavior has to be deterministic.

This is a wrong conclusion. This is not Zope behavior. The
inefficiencies are in the applications/frameworks on top of Zope.


> So to say
> that one can have *no* idea of all that needs to be touched internally
> is a bit cynical; if I had sufficient time on my hands I could find
> out *exactly* what is being touched and where that memory is going. To
> throw ones hands in the air and say it's unknowable means that there's
> no way to know if something is broken. I will agree though that it may
> be very difficult to find out.

I don't think it's cynical, I think it's the only sane thing to do
for me. I cannot afford to spend days digging into Plone to find all
the problems, I just live with a fact that Plone-based applications
tend to be memory hogs, that's all. If you on the other hand have
days to spend, good for you.


> 4) If by "You have *no* idea" you mean I, specifically, have no idea,
> but you do, then I partly agree (I know I don't, but I can't tell if
> you do from your answers so far). That's why I asked the questions.

I don't have any specific idea where the memory goes, either. I
choose the slimmest framework possible to base my sites on, so I
hardly ever have to worry about this type of problem.

jens



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