Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Adobe Donating Flash Scripting Engine to Mozilla

[Adam Churvis]

Wow, Sterling -- I didn't mean to piss you off like that!   Do you remember that ACFUG meeting after the merger was announced, where you were on the panel and everyone was trying to figure out "what next" with ColdFusion?  I thought the arguments you were making about the importance of fringe things like CF's gateways and how the growth in cellular technology was going to make ColdFusion yada yada yada was, let's say, "not on point."  It simply doesn't matter.   It's like a bunch of little ants scurrying around in a lab beaker discussing the reasons why that big man in the lab coat is going to feed them soon, because it's only logical and yada yada yada.  But they have no clue that the guy is there to test the effects of heat on ants.  They can see him through the glass and they think they know what's important to him and how it will affect his actions, but they just don't realize that nothing they're thinking or doing or saying has any relevance to what that guy is going to have to do in order to get graded on his science project, which is the only thing of any real relevance because that guy is the one with the power to bring things into alignment with what the real Powers That Be demand of him.   And past actions have little to do with future actions.  Do you really think that stubborness to continue supporting stagnant products like LiveCycle will stand in the face of shareholder demands for profitability?   Decisions to "continue or can" products and even entire product lines are often made with what some might take as offhandedness by the leaders of publicly traded companies, but it's really just a realization of what finally needs to be done.  You say that "Adobe does not kill products," and that may be true right now, but shareholder pressure has a way of changing such decisions.   And actually, most of our peers agree with us about Microsoft technologies beating Adobe technologies hands down.  I usually don't make absolute statements, but if I were to make one it would probably be that Flex will never ever ever in any way shape or form ever have a significant share of the web.  And I'd even say that the current trend of companies migrating from ColdFusion to .NET will continue, which is another reason for my guess that Adobe will take the open source route with ColdFusion.   These are just guesses, but I believe that my reasoning is more rooted in reality than yours.   And I'll be happy to take you up on your bet.  If by Christmas 2009 Adobe hasn't open sourced, outsourced, or sold ColdFusion (all of these courses are "washing their hands"), then I buy.    The last time we had dinner together was 14 years ago at Nakato, and Lisa still hasn't gotten over the octopus tentacles draped over the side of her bowl, so this time I pick, regardless! :)   Respectfully, Adam Phillip Churvis Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer BlueDragon Alliance Founding Committee Get advanced intensive Master-level training in C# & ASP.NET 2.0 for ColdFusion Developers at ProductivityEnhancement.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sterling Ledet To: discussion@acfug.org Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:20 AM Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Adobe Donating Flash Scripting Engine to Mozilla With all due respect, Adam, I think that is the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard you make in public. Have you been drinking?   If Adobe ever washes its hands of ColdFusion, I hereby publicly pledge to buy you and your family dinner at the most expensive restaurant you can find in Atlanta. You mention relatively soon, how about we bet dinner that it doesn't happen within 3 years. If by Christmas, 2009 ColdFusion Enterprise is not released as open source and Adobe has clearly not washed their hands of it, then you owe me and my family dinner? My offer stands, whether or not you accept the bet.   Here's three points I'd like to make.   1) Adobe is not going to wash their hands of ColdFusion. Do you think they are going to wash their hands of Acrobat as well? Do you know how much money they've been losing on the high-end, Java base LiveCycle product lines for years, yet Bruce Chizen just moved that group to brand new, state of the art digs reinvesting even more into that effort. Acrobat itself was a money loser for half a decade before it became the most lucrative product line in Adobe's portfolio, surpassing PostScript and Photoshop. Adobe is used to making long-term investments, and the purchase of Macromedia/Allaire/eHelp by them is one of the best things that could have happened for tech junkies like me. Even eHelp products are seeing renewed investment, which even surprised me a bit. ColdFusion is so core to what Adobe is doing that any doubt about it's future is so clearly misdirected as to be humorous.   2) Adobe does not kill products, especially not core technology like ColdFusion. I even heard rumors that there is relevant code from LiveMotion (an early Flash competitor that Adobe extensible killed long ago, for those of you who haven't heard of it) that they can now roll into Flash. Adobe plays long-term chess games strategically. This was a strategic move. Not one made out of desperation. I have no idea why you would position it as such, but it is a most absurd deduction.   3) While you are certainly entitled to your opinion that Microsoft's XAML-based offerings are somehow competitive with Flex (and I doubt most of your peers would agree that Eclipse is a unwieldy cobbled together tinkertoy), the facts remain that Microsoft's approach remains one of adopting standards in a way that consistently (and many believe, intentionally) breaks competing technology platforms. They've repeatedly done so with Flash, you can't easily connect to Microsoft WSDL's using standard web service technologies (ever try to hook up ColdFusion of FRS to MS-CRM?), and the open sourcedeveloper community is a key target audience for Flex.   In summary, by integrating the core Actionscript classes into the core _javascript_ standard, Adobe is making a major play on continuing to be the driving force behind standards. It's going to make development for Flex easier over the long haul. It was a brilliant move, not a desperate one.   Seriously, with no disrespect intended,   Sterling Ledet   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Churvis Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:38 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Adobe Donating Flash Scripting Engine to Mozilla Among other things, it means that when the time comes (relatively soon), Adobe will most likely wash their hands clean of ColdFusion via the open source route as well, rather than by trying to dump it on another company.   But it most likely also signifies that Adobe realizes its Flash-centric development model and tools cannot keep pace with Microsoft's XAML-based offerings.  When you compare the two, Flash-based development looks like an unwieldy cobbled together tinkertoy.  And there just isn't enough Adobe funding available to change that in any significant way, so they "give it up to the people" and let them join in for free.   Respectfully, Adam Phillip Churvis Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer BlueDragon Alliance Founding Committee ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -------------------------------------------------------------