RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Adobe Donating Flash Scripting Engine to Mozilla

[Sterling Ledet]

I wasn't in the least upset, Adam. I just thought the posting merited a rather strong response since I so vociferously disagree.   In the panel discussion you mentioned, I tried to clearly explain that my read was that Adobe would continue to push ColdFusion technology as a major part of what at that time was called their "network publishing" initiative and integrate it fully with LiveCycle since it was such a natural fit. The mobile pieces in ColdFusion had already begun prior to the merger, and while Adobe continues to be a driving force in that area and is clearly not abandoning it, that industry is filled with it's own ecosystem challenges. History has made it clear that the conjectures I made at that panel have proven largely accurate.   LiveCycle is about as stagnant as IRS tax forms and FDA drug submittals. If the IRS never changes another tax form, the FDA never changes a drug submittal procedure, ACORD insurance forms never change again, and the hundreds of major enterprises that have adopted LiveCycle technology decide to rip and replace their solutions with purely Microsoft code, then perhaps it's fair to call LiveCycle stagnant. In my opinion, that's just another trolling attempt.   I know LiveCycle has never been more exciting. I'm glad I spent as much time with it as I did, and even well-respected ColdFusion tech shops like FigLeaf are clearly committing serious resources to it. LiveCycle is far from stagnant. LiveCycle 8 new features were shown at Max, and stagnant products don't receive millions in R&D investment from publicly traded companies. Have you even purchased Acrobat 8 yet?   What's more, it's clear to me that the release of the XPAAJ.jar file (which previously was only available with a $50K and up LiveCycle server licensing fee, prior to the merger) and the ease of integration with ColdFusion, as well as the free license to deploy apps based on it on the Internet (if you own ColdFusion) make ColdFusion based PDF forms processing and workflow applications one of the best areas for ColdFusion developers to focus on. Whether you want to call it LiveCycle or just the evolution of PDF-based workflow applications makes no difference, but it's totally inaccurate to call LiveCycle stagnant. Livecycle and ColdFusion are both vibrant, highly relevant technologies and it's never, ever, been a better time to be a developer for either one of these two closely related technologies.   I wonder just how many actual users of InfoPath Microsoft has. I'd be willing to bet it's not even 1% of the users of Adobe Reader. I wouldn't venture to call InfoPath stagnant or irrelevant, it's just clear to me that Adobe PDF remains the de facto standard for unified document distribution and publishing both in professional prepress (the world where I come from) and on the web. LiveCycle server side technology, as well as ColdFusion, are clearly a very strong part of that business solution platform..   While you are right that occasionally publicly traded companies get some pressure from stockholders to show quarterly results, Adobe has never been a company to be overly concerned about such short term metrics, and it's stock is dong quite well. Bruce has more than enough control within that organization to see his strategic initiatives through to completion without having to worry about some sort of imaginary shareholder revolt. As an Adobe shareholder myself, I'm delighted with the company's performance and I would venture to guess that most other shareholders are quite satisfied with it's approximately 400% increase in value since the dot come meltdown.   It's also worth mentioning that for some reason, my MSFT shares haven't gained much value at all over that same time period. Some might even use the word "stagnant" to describe the long term performance of MSFT graphically displayed using Flex technology by some little company, I forgot, (oh yeah, I think they are called Yahoo!, but we all know a company like that would never adopt some clearly inferior technology like Flex, so I must be wrong on that one as well), at   http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:symbol=adbe;range=5y;compare=msft;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=   - Sterling   P.S. I still love octopus! When well done it's one of my favorite types of sushi. We shouldn't wait 3 years for another dinner! But I like all kinds of food, so I'm cool with wherever you pick if you want to get together again before another 3 years pass. In any case, I'll be looking forward to January 2010.     From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Churvis Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:51 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Adobe Donating Flash Scripting Engine to Mozilla Wow, Sterling -- I didn't mean to piss you off like that!   Do you remember that ACFUG meeting after the merger was announced, where you were on the panel and everyone was trying to figure out "what next" with ColdFusion?  I thought the arguments you were making about the importance of fringe things like CF's gateways and how the growth in cellular technology was going to make ColdFusion yada yada yada was, let's say, "not on point."  It simply doesn't matter.   It's like a bunch of little ants scurrying around in a lab beaker discussing the reasons why that big man in the lab coat is going to feed them soon, because it's only logical and yada yada yada.  But they have no clue that the guy is there to test the effects of heat on ants.  They can see him through the glass and they think they know what's important to him and how it will affect his actions, but they just don't realize that nothing they're thinking or doing or saying has any relevance to what that guy is going to have to do in order to get graded on his science project, which is the only thing of any real relevance because that guy is the one with the power to bring things into alignment with what the real Powers That Be demand of him.   And past actions have little to do with future actions.  Do you really think that stubborness to continue supporting stagnant products like LiveCycle will stand in the face of shareholder demands for profitability?   Decisions to "continue or can" products and even entire product lines are often made with what some might take as offhandedness by the leaders of publicly traded companies, but it's really just a realization of what finally needs to be done.  You say that "Adobe does not kill products," and that may be true right now, but shareholder pressure has a way of changing such decisions.   And actually, most of our peers agree with us about Microsoft technologies beating Adobe technologies hands down.  I usually don't make absolute statements, but if I were to make one it would probably be that Flex will never ever ever in any way shape or form ever have a significant share of the web.  And I'd even say that the current trend of companies migrating from ColdFusion to .NET will continue, which is another reason for my guess that Adobe will take the open source route with ColdFusion.   These are just guesses, but I believe that my reasoning is more rooted in reality than yours.   And I'll be happy to take you up on your bet.  If by Christmas 2009 Adobe hasn't open sourced, outsourced, or sold ColdFusion (all of these courses are "washing their hands"), then I buy.    ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -------------------------------------------------------------