>> Not necessarily. Mediterranean basin had its own lutes >very early, way >> before there was any contact with the Far East. >> RT > I think we have to rethink this whole concept of one particular time and > place where East meets West. For instance. We are taught to believe that > during Christ's lifetime all these cultures had not mingled. Lutes appear in the eastern Mediterranean long before Christ, probably during the Hittite invasion.
> There where > well establish trade routes from India to the middle east. There is some > pretty convincing evidence that Christ traveled to India at that time, and That "Gospel Vindaloo theory" doesn't hold lassi, I'm afraid..... > brought back with him the Buddhist traditions of a monastatic order and > compassion, which took hold centuries later in Christendom. I do not recall the Redeemer advocating monasticism, but Mathias will surely clarify the issue. > I challenge > anyone to find a monastatic order, anywhere in the world other than in > Buddhist India 500 year before the appearance of Christ. Some argue that Essenes were kind of monastic.... > The west has taken > this for granted and not traced this tradition back any further than > Constantine. Sorry to go off here, but it is just another example of > suppression of any other foreign influence on Religion, music, and the arts, > to the point where we all believe like Baron that the lute came from the > Greeks. The point is that it probably was in Europe even before them Greeks..... Egypt and Asia Minor are have culturally more to do with Europe than India and beyond. RT > > >>> Indians, Persians (and Greeks) all belong to the Indo-European group >>> commonly known as Aryan. Their cradle is in southern >>> Siberia/Kazakhstan/eastern China. There are grounds for suspicion that > these >>> people might be responsible for spreading their proto-lutes in all > available >>> directions. >>> RT >>> Interesting , I've always wondered about who in fact the label Aryan >>> refers to. >>> As it is today, it had to be in the past, that these musical inventions, >>> art and high culture, need patrons, and a well developed culture in > order >>> for art or music to flourish. It still seems to me that the development > of >>> the lute, a paired shaped round body instrument took place in the East. >>> While the Greeks developed the lyre. >>> Michael Thames >> Not necessarily. Mediterranean basin had its own lutes very early, way >> before there was any contact with the Far East. >> RT >> >> >> >> >> >>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Marion Ceruti" >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LUTE-LIST" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Jon > Murphy" >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology >>> >>> >>>>> ++In Western music, the emphasis is on harmonic >development, but in >>>>>> Eastern music the emphasis is on melodic development >>>>> >>>>> Yes, but which came first? who influenced who? I'm not a musicologist >>> but >>>>> reason would suggest that early Indian ragas set the stage for the > oud, >>>>> which in turn set the stage for early lute music. >>>>> By the time Alexander invaded India, India had a very well established >>>>> musical culture and tradition. Perhaps it was Alexander's retreating >>> army >>>>> that brought back the Indian modes to the Greeks! >>>>> Michael Thames >>>> Indians, Persians (and Greeks) all belong to the Indo-European group >>>> commonly known as Aryan. Their cradle is in southern >>>> Siberia/Kazakhstan/eastern China. There are grounds for suspicion that >>> these >>>> people might be responsible for spreading their proto-lutes in all >>> available >>>> directions. >>>> RT >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > >
