Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[David Wright]

On Fri 07 Jun 2024 at 22:34:58 (+0300), Jan Krapivin wrote:
> пт, 7 июн. 2024 г. в 22:04, David Wright :
> > On Fri 07 Jun 2024 at 20:06:27 (+0300), Jan Krapivin wrote:
> > > Yes, you are right, maybe. Though Debian is probably a rare (if not the
> > > only) distro that still uses Gnome 43.9, which is, as i use Debian, my
> > > case. And (maybe) a problem?
> >
> > I searched for gnome in https://packages.debian.org/index
> > and got 65 package matches for bookworm. I repeated for
> > trixie and got 63 matches. Finally I tried sid and got
> > 94 matches. However, I failed to find the string 43.9
> > on any of these pages. How do you come by it? (I don't
> > run gnome myself.)
> >
> On gnome you can just run
> $ *gnome-shell --version*

OK. It seems the packages index is behaving in a very inconsistent
manner when given gnome as the search string. I think it's worth
a bug report, but I'm not sure how one directs it to the right place.
Sorry not to be able to help with your problem.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/06/2024 17:41, Jan Krapivin wrote:

Recently i have found out
that i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin "GNOME Shell
integration". I have tried different browsers: Firefox stable


If snap or flatpak sanboxing is involved then the following may be relevant:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/1661935
Summary: Snap: cannot install/manage extensions from 
extensions.gnome.org → Snap does not support NativeMessaging


P.S. Currently I do not have a VM with Gnome.

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[Jan Krapivin]

On gnome you can just run

$ *gnome-shell --version*

пт, 7 июн. 2024 г. в 22:04, David Wright :

> On Fri 07 Jun 2024 at 20:06:27 (+0300), Jan Krapivin wrote:
> > Yes, you are right, maybe. Though Debian is probably a rare (if not the
> > only) distro that still uses Gnome 43.9, which is, as i use Debian, my
> > case. And (maybe) a problem?
>
> I searched for gnome in https://packages.debian.org/index
> and got 65 package matches for bookworm. I repeated for
> trixie and got 63 matches. Finally I tried sid and got
> 94 matches. However, I failed to find the string 43.9
> on any of these pages. How do you come by it? (I don't
> run gnome myself.)
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[David Wright]

On Fri 07 Jun 2024 at 20:06:27 (+0300), Jan Krapivin wrote:
> Yes, you are right, maybe. Though Debian is probably a rare (if not the
> only) distro that still uses Gnome 43.9, which is, as i use Debian, my
> case. And (maybe) a problem?

I searched for gnome in https://packages.debian.org/index
and got 65 package matches for bookworm. I repeated for
trixie and got 63 matches. Finally I tried sid and got
94 matches. However, I failed to find the string 43.9
on any of these pages. How do you come by it? (I don't
run gnome myself.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[Jan Krapivin]

Yes, you are right, maybe. Though Debian is probably a rare (if not the
only) distro that still uses Gnome 43.9, which is, as i use Debian, my
case. And (maybe) a problem?

пт, 7 июн. 2024 г. в 20:01, :

> Jan Krapivin  wrote:
> > Thank you for your reply. This topic is not about Debian packages, but
> > about a performance of a plugin for browsers, it is not a Debian
> > package.
> >
> >
> https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/GnomeShellIntegration?action=show=Projects%2FGnomeShellIntegrationForChrome
> >
> > I am trying to install Gnome extensions with it. They are also not
> > Debian packages.
> >
> > https://extensions.gnome.org/about/
>
> So maybe a Gnome forum or list or one about the specific plugin or even
> one about the browser is a better place to look for help than a debian
> mailing list?
>
>

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[debian-user]

Jan Krapivin  wrote:
> Thank you for your reply. This topic is not about Debian packages, but
> about a performance of a plugin for browsers, it is not a Debian
> package.
> 
> https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/GnomeShellIntegration?action=show=Projects%2FGnomeShellIntegrationForChrome
> 
> I am trying to install Gnome extensions with it. They are also not
> Debian packages.
> 
> https://extensions.gnome.org/about/

So maybe a Gnome forum or list or one about the specific plugin or even
one about the browser is a better place to look for help than a debian
mailing list?

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[Jan Krapivin]

Thank you for your reply. This topic is not about Debian packages, but
about a performance of a plugin for browsers, it is not a Debian package.

https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/GnomeShellIntegration?action=show=Projects%2FGnomeShellIntegrationForChrome

I am trying to install Gnome extensions with it. They are also not Debian
packages.

https://extensions.gnome.org/about/

The problem can be reproduced only if you use Gnome.

For this you must install a special Gnome *BROWSER* plugin and try to
install any Gnome extension.

It is not a big deal, as I am still able to install Gnome extensions with
regular files.

But i wonder if it is a universal problem, and if it is not, what is wrong
with me, as i haven't done any major changes in OS.

пт, 7 июн. 2024 г. в 03:50, George at Clug :

> Hi Jan Krapivin,
>
> I am hoping someone can help you with your answer as I do not use Gnome or
> have much experience with Gnome.
>
> Which Debian package or packages are you installing?
>
> I found a list of Debian Gnome packages at
> https://packages.debian.org/stable/gnome/
>
> But I was not able to find a  "GNOME Shell integration" package ?
>
> You said, "i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin
> "GNOME Shell integration"".
>
> Could you please explain the steps to reproduce your problem, including
> installation of the browser plugin package, how in the web browser you add
> the extension, and an example extension you were not able to install?
>
> Thanks,
>
> George.
>
>
> On Friday, 07-06-2024 at 05:27 Jan Krapivin wrote:
>
> Guys, can you please spend 30 seconds and check if it is a universal
> problem..?
>
> чт, 6 июн. 2024 г. в 13:41, Jan Krapivin :
>
>> I have a problem with a Gnome browser plugin. I have even created an
>> issue report (see below).
>>
>> Unfortunately I don't know if I am the only one with this problem.
>>
>> If you use Debian 12 stable with Gnome, please let me know about your
>> experience.
>>
>> "Hello! I use Debian 12 stable with Gnome 43.9. Recently i have found out
>> that i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin "GNOME Shell
>> integration". I have tried different browsers: Firefox stable, Firefox-ESR,
>> Chrome. In all of them it is impossible to install a new extension.
>> Switching a tumbler from "OFF" to "ON" does nothing. Though it is possible
>> to view already installed extensions and switch them off and on. It is also
>> possible to install an extension from file.
>>
>> What i have tried: 1) Switching "Disable version validation" on and off.
>> 2) Gnome-shell reinstall. 3) gnome-browser-connector reinstall."
>>
>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-browser-extension/-/issues/62
>>
>

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[George at Clug]

Hi Jan Krapivin,


I am hoping someone can help you with your answer as I do not use
Gnome or have much experience with Gnome.


Which Debian package or packages are you installing?

I found a list of Debian Gnome packages at
https://packages.debian.org/stable/gnome/


But I was not able to find a  "GNOME Shell integration" package ?

You said, "i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin
"GNOME Shell integration"".

Could you please explain the steps to reproduce your problem,
including  installation of the browser plugin package, how in the web
browser you add the extension, and an example extension you were not
able to install?

Thanks,

George.



On Friday, 07-06-2024 at 05:27 Jan Krapivin wrote:


Guys, can you please spend 30 seconds and check if it is a universal
problem..?


чт, 6 июн. 2024 г. в 13:41, Jan Krapivin :



I have a problem with a Gnome browser plugin. I have even created an
issue report (see below). 


Unfortunately I don't know if I am the only one with this problem. 


If you use Debian 12 stable with Gnome, please let me know about your
experience.

"Hello! I use Debian 12 stable with Gnome 43.9. Recently i have found
out that i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin
"GNOME Shell integration". I have tried different browsers: Firefox
stable, Firefox-ESR, Chrome. In all of them it is impossible to
install a new extension. Switching a tumbler from "OFF" to "ON" does
nothing. Though it is possible to view already installed extensions
and switch them off and on. It is also possible to install an
extension from file. 

What i have tried: 1) Switching "Disable version validation" on and
off. 2) Gnome-shell reinstall. 3) gnome-browser-connector reinstall."

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-browser-extension/-/issues/62

Re: Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[Jan Krapivin]

Guys, can you please spend 30 seconds and check if it is a universal
problem..?

чт, 6 июн. 2024 г. в 13:41, Jan Krapivin :

> I have a problem with a Gnome browser plugin. I have even created an issue
> report (see below).
>
> Unfortunately I don't know if I am the only one with this problem.
>
> If you use Debian 12 stable with Gnome, please let me know about your
> experience.
>
> "Hello! I use Debian 12 stable with Gnome 43.9. Recently i have found out
> that i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin "GNOME Shell
> integration". I have tried different browsers: Firefox stable, Firefox-ESR,
> Chrome. In all of them it is impossible to install a new extension.
> Switching a tumbler from "OFF" to "ON" does nothing. Though it is possible
> to view already installed extensions and switch them off and on. It is also
> possible to install an extension from file.
>
> What i have tried: 1) Switching "Disable version validation" on and off.
> 2) Gnome-shell reinstall. 3) gnome-browser-connector reinstall."
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-browser-extension/-/issues/62
>

Impossible to install extensions with Gnome browser plugin

[Jan Krapivin]

I have a problem with a Gnome browser plugin. I have even created an issue
report (see below).

Unfortunately I don't know if I am the only one with this problem.

If you use Debian 12 stable with Gnome, please let me know about your
experience.

"Hello! I use Debian 12 stable with Gnome 43.9. Recently i have found out
that i am unable to install new extensions with browser plugin "GNOME Shell
integration". I have tried different browsers: Firefox stable, Firefox-ESR,
Chrome. In all of them it is impossible to install a new extension.
Switching a tumbler from "OFF" to "ON" does nothing. Though it is possible
to view already installed extensions and switch them off and on. It is also
possible to install an extension from file.

What i have tried: 1) Switching "Disable version validation" on and off. 2)
Gnome-shell reinstall. 3) gnome-browser-connector reinstall."

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-browser-extension/-/issues/62

Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[songbird]

DdB wrote:
...
> But i cannot endorse on bookworm without finding alternatives viable to
> my handicap. Does that mean, i am back to square one?
> Currently, i am 6 years behind (still on debian 10), because i was not
> willing to lose functionality i am used to. BTW: the GNOME team did that
> to me repeatedly, which makes me quite unhappy. But i am not familiar
> with the other desktops, cannot estimate the difficulties associated
> with their usage.

  many years ago running Debian testing i was happy with a
Gnome setup, menus and taskbars.  then they changed it too
much and it made too many assumptions about how i liked to
do things and i went through the effort of getting KDE 
setup how i liked it and then they too changed it too much
so i found MATE and have stuck with that since then.

  i've not had to try Cinnamon or other desktops, but i
also have not been needing more extreme things for a handicap
other than having fonts pretty large (which is a problem in
some websites or programs as some don't make it easy to
scroll a whole dialog until you find the key combination to
grab it and move it up or down).


  songbird

Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[Dan Ritter]

DdB wrote: 
> Am 01.06.2024 um 11:02 schrieb Andrew M.A. Cater:
> > You would need to go from buster - bullseye to bookworm anyway.
> > 
> > Read the Release Notes for Bullseye to pick up on any changes.
> > 
> > Do note also that Bookworm is currently supported: Bullseye security
> > support ends round July 31st this year as Bullseye will move to LTS.
> > 
> > You might want to repeat the upgrade process in a couple of months
> 
> Yes, Andy, you are correct. See:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases#Production_Releases
> 
> But i cannot endorse on bookworm without finding alternatives viable to
> my handicap. Does that mean, i am back to square one?
> Currently, i am 6 years behind (still on debian 10), because i was not
> willing to lose functionality i am used to. BTW: the GNOME team did that
> to me repeatedly, which makes me quite unhappy. But i am not familiar
> with the other desktops, cannot estimate the difficulties associated
> with their usage.

You've mentioned that you want programmable hot corners and a
pop-up menu, and in another thread, that you like to write your
own scripts.

Here is an X11-specific but not DE-specific tool to run hot
corners; it is written in bash and is eminently hackable:

https://github.com/okitavera/cornora/

The dependencies are packaged in Debian, so it's just one
script.

And here is an X11-specific but not DE-specific tool to run
menus (and several other similar things), which is easily
customizable through a config file:

apt install rofi

Finally, here is an X11-specific but not DE-specific tool to
grab a keyboard button or combination and do something else with
it, including running an application:

apt install xbindkeys

All of these work in Debian 10, 11 and 12, and I see no reason
that they should stop working in 13. If you accustom yourself to
using them now, you can change desktop environments and upgrade
to current stable without fear of losing your desired workflow.

Hope that helps.

-dsr-

Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[Brad Rogers]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 11:47:59 +0200
DdB  wrote:

Hello DdB,

>BTW: the GNOME team did that to me repeatedly

In fairness, it's not just Gnome that erodes features.  TBH, they *all*
do it.  I've seen features removed from Plasma, Claws Mail, Tellico,
loads of stuff.  Worst of all is when the removal goes without comment.
From anyone.

Often the reason given boils down to "too difficult to maintain".  Well
okay, but it's still difficult to stomach when you're reliant on said
feature.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
If we're working class, why ain't we got jobs?
Insane Society - Menace


pgpuuK72Cr_yx.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[DdB]

Am 01.06.2024 um 11:02 schrieb Andrew M.A. Cater:
> You would need to go from buster - bullseye to bookworm anyway.
> 
> Read the Release Notes for Bullseye to pick up on any changes.
> 
> Do note also that Bookworm is currently supported: Bullseye security
> support ends round July 31st this year as Bullseye will move to LTS.
> 
> You might want to repeat the upgrade process in a couple of months

Yes, Andy, you are correct. See:
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases#Production_Releases

But i cannot endorse on bookworm without finding alternatives viable to
my handicap. Does that mean, i am back to square one?
Currently, i am 6 years behind (still on debian 10), because i was not
willing to lose functionality i am used to. BTW: the GNOME team did that
to me repeatedly, which makes me quite unhappy. But i am not familiar
with the other desktops, cannot estimate the difficulties associated
with their usage.

DdB

Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jun 01, 2024 at 08:52:14AM +0200, DdB wrote:
> Am 31.05.2024 um 12:57 schrieb DdB:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > 
> > Now is the time to plan ahead for years to come and i don't know, what i
> > should do.
> > 
> > DdB
> 
> Thanks for all your input.
> In the meantime, i did check for the specific gnome-extensions and
> found, that both ere still working fine on bullseye. Thus i decided to
> just go the "little step" of moving from debian 10 to 11 for the time
> being. No need to mess with my habits in that case. :-)
> DdB
>

Hi DdB,

You would need to go from buster - bullseye to bookworm anyway.

Read the Release Notes for Bullseye to pick up on any changes.

Do note also that Bookworm is currently supported: Bullseye security
support ends round July 31st this year as Bullseye will move to LTS.

You might want to repeat the upgrade process in a couple of months :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

(amaca...@debian.org)

[Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[DdB]

Am 31.05.2024 um 12:57 schrieb DdB:
> Hello,
> 
> while being on old-old-stable still (buster) and preparing for an
> upgrade to bookworm, i noticed, that GNOME once again lost compatibility
> to my preferred extensions, giving me a hard choice to either go on with
> my outdated system as long as possible, or find a replacement and change
> my ways of working.
> 
> What i did like with GNOME was the ease of use for a handicapped person
> (like me). But i disliked the overwhelming intrusion into the os, that
> suppresses many choices and freedom.
> 
> But as i am still feeling like a noob, i would like to collect some
> suggestions and comments from you guys:
> Eventually there is an alternative to the so called
> "quick-toggler-extension", that i used/exploited to generate a kind of
> personal menu, easily configured in one go with a json config file, an
> alternative on another desktop?
> 
> And the other miss is the "Windows-corner-preview-extension", that is no
> longer maintained or functional, that i was using all over the place for
> many different use cases and purposes. That one also suffers from
> changes inside GNOME, that basically kill volunteers work (repeatedly!)
> 
> Now is the time to plan ahead for years to come and i don't know, what i
> should do.
> 
> DdB

Thanks for all your input.
In the meantime, i did check for the specific gnome-extensions and
found, that both ere still working fine on bullseye. Thus i decided to
just go the "little step" of moving from debian 10 to 11 for the time
being. No need to mess with my habits in that case. :-)
DdB

Re: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[Stefan Monnier]

> while being on old-old-stable still (buster) and preparing for an
> upgrade to bookworm, i noticed, that GNOME once again lost compatibility
> to my preferred extensions, giving me a hard choice to either go on with
> my outdated system as long as possible, or find a replacement and change
> my ways of working.

Not really an answer, just a side note: AFAIK, the concept of "DE"
doesn't exist at a technical level.  You *can* mix and match things from
various "DE"s.  There are occasional dependencies between components of
"DE"s, but each one of them is a PITA which I think should be treated as
a bug.


Stefan

Re: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 10:03 AM DdB
 wrote:
>
> while being on old-old-stable still (buster) and preparing for an
> upgrade to bookworm, i noticed, that GNOME once again lost compatibility
> to my preferred extensions, giving me a hard choice to either go on with
> my outdated system as long as possible, or find a replacement and change
> my ways of working.
>
> What i did like with GNOME was the ease of use for a handicapped person
> (like me). But i disliked the overwhelming intrusion into the os, that
> suppresses many choices and freedom.
>
> But as i am still feeling like a noob, i would like to collect some
> suggestions and comments from you guys:
> Eventually there is an alternative to the so called
> "quick-toggler-extension", that i used/exploited to generate a kind of
> personal menu, easily configured in one go with a json config file, an
> alternative on another desktop?
>
> And the other miss is the "Windows-corner-preview-extension", that is no
> longer maintained or functional, that i was using all over the place for
> many different use cases and purposes. That one also suffers from
> changes inside GNOME, that basically kill volunteers work (repeatedly!)
>
> Now is the time to plan ahead for years to come and i don't know, what i
> should do.

It looks like you have at least ten choices of desktop environments:
<https://wiki.debian.org/DesktopEnvironment>. I don't know if your
extensions are compatible with any of them.

MATE provides an experience similar to GNOME 2.

Jeff

Re: What DE to replace GNOME with?

[George at Clug]

DdB,


"What DE to replace GNOME with?" - 'which GUI is your personal
preference' is my favourite topic. 


Back in the 'old days, I used to study GUIs and write GUI applications
to help simplify user experiences.



If you like Gnome, would Cinnamon be a good GUI for you?


I grew up with text based menus from the DOS era. Hence I disliked the
Windows 3.x, Windows 8, Windows 11, and Gnome icon based menus. On
mobile phones and tablets icons makes sense to me, but not on laptops
and desktops where I use a mouse.


Because I like to use text based menus, I very much like XFCE ! 


Mate is also nice. 


I use XFCE as I can easily modify the layout and themes to my choices.
Not something I could do in Gnome.



Recently I also started using KDE. It looks very nice and modern
looking. It also has lots of options or other ways to do things which
may make it overly complex?. I would recommend KDE to anyone moving
from Windows to Linux.


Cinnamon I mentioned, looks very attractive, at least it does to me.
Like Gnome, it hides complexity, providing a more simpler experience
for users. Some will like this others may not.


The great thing about Linux is we have choice. If you like Gnome, you
use Gnome, if you don't like Gnome, you can use XFCE, if you do not
like XFCE, you could choose KDE or one of the other GUIs. I am very
thankful to all the people who work on Linux and provide us with
choices.



One suggestion, install Cinnamon, Mate, and XFCE (as they all use the
light display manager), then create three accounts, c_user, m_user,
and x_user, then at different times, log into an account after
selecting the GUI and try using each of these GUIs, see what you like
and what you do not like about each of these. I use different the
accounts so any settings I make do not affect the other GUIs, this may
not be necessary, but I liked the idea, particularly if you have a
file server of any kind (like a NAS) on which you can  store any
files you want to access from all three accounts. This is not for your
primary, long term computer, but just as a trial for two to several
months. Worked well for me.



I hope my review helps you, but ultimately the decision is yours and
what you like, do not be swayed by other people's opinions unless
their opinions turn out to be yours too. 


Most of my friends use Gnome or KDE and are happy with their choice,
but I like XFCE and will stay with it for now. XFCE is simple, fast,
effective, not resource hungry, and easy to change themes and layout.
I use MenuLibre to add or change menu items, though there may be a
better program to do this with?


When I install XFCE, I also like installing Cinnamon, so I don't have
to individually install other programs that I like to use which come
with Mate, Cinnamon and Gnome.


There is also the whole Xorg (X11), and Wayland thing to think
about. 


Wayland may be the future, but right now, I believe Xorg is the
present. The programs I use and like work well as X11 programs. While
others will disagree but my experience has been X11 programs (e.g.
Chromium screen sharing, and OBS studio) work better than Wayland
versions. Wayland has to sort out several shortcomings before I will
be happy to use it. Sadly I think all this gets a bit messy and
complex, and will turn off new Linux users.


George.









On Friday, 31-05-2024 at 20:57 DdB wrote:


Hello,

while being on old-old-stable still (buster) and preparing for an
upgrade to bookworm, i noticed, that GNOME once again lost
compatibility
to my preferred extensions, giving me a hard choice to either go on
with
my outdated system as long as possible, or find a replacement and
change
my ways of working.

What i did like with GNOME was the ease of use for a handicapped
person
(like me). But i disliked the overwhelming intrusion into the os, that
suppresses many choices and freedom.

But as i am still feeling like a noob, i would like to collect some
suggestions and comments from you guys:
Eventually there is an alternative to the so called
"quick-toggler-extension", that i used/exploited to generate a kind of
personal menu, easily configured in one go with a json config file, an
alternative on another desktop?

And the other miss is the "Windows-corner-preview-extension", that is
no
longer maintained or functional, that i was using all over the place
for
many different use cases and purposes. That one also suffers from
changes inside GNOME, that basically kill volunteers work
(repeatedly!)

Now is the time to plan ahead for years to come and i don't know, what
i
should do.

DdB

What DE to replace GNOME with?

[DdB]

Hello,

while being on old-old-stable still (buster) and preparing for an
upgrade to bookworm, i noticed, that GNOME once again lost compatibility
to my preferred extensions, giving me a hard choice to either go on with
my outdated system as long as possible, or find a replacement and change
my ways of working.

What i did like with GNOME was the ease of use for a handicapped person
(like me). But i disliked the overwhelming intrusion into the os, that
suppresses many choices and freedom.

But as i am still feeling like a noob, i would like to collect some
suggestions and comments from you guys:
Eventually there is an alternative to the so called
"quick-toggler-extension", that i used/exploited to generate a kind of
personal menu, easily configured in one go with a json config file, an
alternative on another desktop?

And the other miss is the "Windows-corner-preview-extension", that is no
longer maintained or functional, that i was using all over the place for
many different use cases and purposes. That one also suffers from
changes inside GNOME, that basically kill volunteers work (repeatedly!)

Now is the time to plan ahead for years to come and i don't know, what i
should do.

DdB

Gnome problem occured, system can't recover on testing

[Richard]

Hi,
after a reboot I'm now greeted by a white screen saying

Oh no! Something has gone wrong A problem has occurred and the system can't
recover. Please contact a system administrator.

I can still switch to a different tty, but I can't really tell what the
issue is. The output of journalctl -b --priority 3 is:

kernel: cros_ec_lpcs cros_ec_lpcs.0: EC ID not detected
bluetoothd[894]: profiles/sap/server.c:sap_server_register() Sap driver
initialization failed.
bluetoothd[894]: sap-server: Operation not permitted (1)
bluetoothd[894]: Failed to load LTKs for hci0: Invalid Parameters (0x0d)
systemd[1]: Failed to start firewalld.service - firewalld - dynamic
firewall daemon.
csc_vpnagent[961]: Function: startParser File:
../../vpn/Common/Xml/CVCSaxParser.cpp Line: 171 Invoked Function:
xmlCreateFileParserCtxt Return Code: -33554427 (0xFE05) Description:
GLOBAL_ERROR_NULL_POINTER
csc_vpnagent[961]: Function: LoadSettingsFromXmlFile File:
../../vpn/PhoneHome/PhoneHomeAgent.cpp Line: 626 Invoked Function:
XmlParser::parseFile Return Code: -33554423 (0xFE09) Description:
GLOBAL_ERROR_UNEXPECTED
gnome-session-binary[1447]: Unrecoverable failure in required component
org.gnome.Shell.desktop
kernel: ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: ucsi_handle_connector_change:
GET_CONNECTOR_STATUS failed (-5)
gnome-session-binary[1618]: Unrecoverable failure in required component
org.gnome.Shell.desktop
gnome-session-binary[1618]: Unrecoverable failure in required component
org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.UsbProtection.desktop
kernel: ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: ucsi_handle_connector_change:
GET_CONNECTOR_STATUS failed (-110)
login[2018]: PAM unable to dlopen(pam_lastlog.so):
/usr/lib/security/pam_lastlog.so: cannot open shared object file: No such
file or directory
PAM adding faulty module: pam_lastlog.so

Now, the first line can just be ignored, that's typical. The things that
concern me the most are the last two lines. It already has been reported as
a bug and seems to be in the works, but I haven't seen any inidcation that
this should cause a complete failure. The other reasons I've found for the
Gnome related error message was either trouble with Nvidia - but I don't
have any installed - or outdated firmware. So I've just made double shure
to really have the latest firmware by copying over the 04/2024 archive from
kernel.org with rsync -rc, yet no change (I'm running on a Ryzen 7040, so
the AMD firmware available in the Debian repos is way too old, no matter
which branch).

So what's going on?

Best
Richard

Re: magazine linux et obtention de debian stable 12 X86 gnome

[Belaïd]

Salut,

Je peux t'envoyer une copie si tu veux, gratuitement.

Le sam. 13 avr. 2024 à 09:04, jc gucci  a écrit :

> je suis en wifi, en bande passante limité , j'ai donc pensé qu'il
> etait possible d'obtenir le dvd via un magazine. dans quels magazines est
> ou sera inclus le prochain debian sinon comment l'obtenir (envoi par ups,
> poste , lug ?).
> merci.
>

Re: magazine linux et obtention de debian stable 12 X86 gnome

[William Bonnet]

Bonjour

On 13/04/2024 09:04, jc gucci wrote:
je suis en wifi, en bande passante limité , j'ai donc pensé qu'il 
etait possible d'obtenir le dvd via un magazine. dans quels magazines 
est ou sera inclus le prochain debian sinon comment l'obtenir (envoi par 
ups, poste , lug ?).
Pourrais tu stp nous dire vers quelle agglomération tu te trouves? tu as 
eu plusieurs offres de te faire le DL sue clé pour toi.


qu'appelle tu  bande passante limitée? tu as un chiffre :) ?

Je suis dans le même cas que toi (j’habite montlucon) et mon débit 
fluctue dans la journée et au mieux tourne dans les 200ko/s

j'ai tout de meme pu faire une debian net inst

telecharger l iso full aurait pris des jours mais le cd net inst se fait 
bienensuite j ai fait l install par le reseau, cela m a pris plusieurs 
heures mais se fait bien malgre tout car a part si tu as des besoinf 
tres particulier on utilise une faible partie du DVD d'install en realité
personellement le gros morceaux a digérer c etait xfce et des lib de 
developpement, mais ca se fait bien. une fois installé je ait un update 
upgrade de temps en temps la nuit.


Librament
W.


OpenPGP_0x8436246AE2D3D15F.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: magazine linux et obtention de debian stable 12 X86 gnome

[Frederic Zulian]

Sinon tu passes avec ton UC dans un LUG.

Si tu es dans l'agglomération Toulousaine.  Viens nous voir au CULTe
(Ramonville Saint Agne).

Il ne te restera plus qu'a faire les maj de temps à autre.

Frédéric zulian

Le sam. 13 avr. 2024, 13:06, Christian Gaudin  a
écrit :

> Le Sat, 13 Apr 2024 09:10:01 +0200, jc gucci a écrit :
>
> > je suis en wifi, en bande passante limité , j'ai donc pensé qu'il
> > etait possible d'obtenir le dvd via un magazine. dans quels magazines est
> > ou sera inclus le prochain debian sinon comment l'obtenir (envoi par ups,
> > poste , lug ?).
> > merci.
>
> il y a une page sur le site Debian:
>
> https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/
>
> 5.99€ le DVD che GetLinux
>
> --
> Christian
>
>

Re: magazine linux et obtention de debian stable 12 X86 gnome

[Christian Gaudin]

Le Sat, 13 Apr 2024 09:10:01 +0200, jc gucci a écrit :

> je suis en wifi, en bande passante limité , j'ai donc pensé qu'il
> etait possible d'obtenir le dvd via un magazine. dans quels magazines est
> ou sera inclus le prochain debian sinon comment l'obtenir (envoi par ups,
> poste , lug ?).
> merci.

il y a une page sur le site Debian:

https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/

5.99€ le DVD che GetLinux

-- 
Christian

Re: magazine linux et obtention de debian stable 12 X86 gnome

[Jean-Marc]

Le 13/04/24 à 09:04, jc gucci a écrit :
je suis en wifi, en bande passante limité , j'ai donc pensé qu'il 
etait possible d'obtenir le dvd via un magazine. dans quels magazines 
est ou sera inclus le prochain debian sinon comment l'obtenir (envoi par 
ups, poste , lug ?).


Plutôt que d'acheter un magazine, on peut acheter un support 
d'installation auprès de vendeurs :


https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/


merci.


--
Jean-Marc


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: magazine linux et obtention de debian stable 12 X86 gnome

[ajh-valmer]

On Saturday 13 April 2024 09:04:13 jc gucci wrote:
> je suis en wifi, en bande passante limité , j'ai donc pensé qu'il
> etait possible d'obtenir le dvd via un magazine. dans quels magazines est
> ou sera inclus le prochain debian sinon comment l'obtenir (envoi par ups,
> poste , lug ?).   merci.

Aller chez un(e) ami(e) avec une clé USB qui a la fibre, y enregistrer
une version Debian complète. 
Sauf si on est dans un lieu en réseau très limité.

magazine linux et obtention de debian stable 12 X86 gnome

[jc gucci]

je suis en wifi, en bande passante limité , j'ai donc pensé qu'il
etait possible d'obtenir le dvd via un magazine. dans quels magazines est
ou sera inclus le prochain debian sinon comment l'obtenir (envoi par ups,
poste , lug ?).
merci.

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:32:18 +0300
Jan Krapivin  wrote:

> Small problem is that LTS Kernel 6.1 doesn’t support this device, so
> I have used Liquorix kernel, which I have installed earlier. Though,
> I don’t need this kernel, as it haven’t helped me with sound
> interrupts, which was my hope at first.

I'm glad you reached a solution. You might also check the backports
kernel, which is currently linux-image-6.6.13+bpo-amd64
6.6.13-1~bpo12+1.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Jan Krapivin]

Good news. Looks like I have solved the problem. As a last resort I have
bought another one wi-fi receiver, third one. It has *Realtek RTL8763BW*
chip

and *two antennas*. And finally all works fine. I have spent some hours,
using Bluetooth headphones, waiting for problems, but they hadn’t occur.
Small problem is that LTS Kernel 6.1 doesn’t support this device, so I have
used Liquorix kernel, which I have installed earlier. Though, I don’t need
this kernel, as it haven’t helped me with sound interrupts, which was my
hope at first. So… I bought more old Wi-fi receiver with *Realtek
RTL8761BUV* chip with antenna and it also works fine, and also works with
stable 6.1 kernel.

I am glad that situation found its resolution, though it is strange for me
that USB-dongle Bluetooth receiver (I don’t know the exact model) and
receiver on an internal wi-fi adapter (AX 210) have worked so poorly both.
Though I was in the distance not more than 2 meters from receiver.

Thanks for help

пт, 15 мар. 2024 г. в 05:21, Max Nikulin :

> On 14/03/2024 19:06, Jan Krapivin wrote:
> >
> > What do you think about QUANT parameter in */pw-top/*? Can it influence
> > sound quality? I wasn't able to change it with
> >
> > pw-metadata -n settings 0 clock.force-quantum 2048
>
> Sorry, my experience with tuning PipeWire is limited to switching audio
> profiles (A2DP codecs, HSF) from UI.
>
> I think in you case it would be more productive to enable debug logs
> either in bluetoothd or PipeWire to find either the host or the device
> drops or lost connections causing pauses till reconnect.
>
>
>

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Max Nikulin]

On 14/03/2024 19:06, Jan Krapivin wrote:


What do you think about QUANT parameter in */pw-top/*? Can it influence 
sound quality? I wasn't able to change it with


pw-metadata -n settings 0 clock.force-quantum 2048


Sorry, my experience with tuning PipeWire is limited to switching audio 
profiles (A2DP codecs, HSF) from UI.


I think in you case it would be more productive to enable debug logs 
either in bluetoothd or PipeWire to find either the host or the device 
drops or lost connections causing pauses till reconnect.

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Jan Krapivin]

> You may try to discriminate hardware/software issues when you comparing
> different laptops by booting various live images (GNOME, xfce, etc.).
>

 I will try... Thank you.

What do you think about QUANT parameter in *pw-top*? Can it influence sound
quality? I wasn't able to change it with

*pw-metadata -n settings 0 clock.force-quantum 2048*

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Max Nikulin]

On 13/03/2024 17:43, Jan Krapivin wrote:
While watching */pactl subscribe /*command output, i have noticed that 
there was a change from sink 414 to sink 213 when sound interrupt occurred


"Event 'change' on sink-input #414

Can this information be of any help?


It is expected due to


Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) event25 - Haylou W1 
(AVRCP): device removed
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb pipewire-pulse[1359]: mod.protocol-pulse: client 
0x58b39dbbea40 [GNOME Settings]: ERROR command:-1 (invalid) tag:358 error:25 
(Input/output error)
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) config/udev: 
removing device Haylou W1 (AVRCP)


journalctl running with root privileges may provide more details.

You may try to discriminate hardware/software issues when you comparing 
different laptops by booting various live images (GNOME, xfce, etc.). I 
admit that it is inconvenient since it may require at least a half of an 
hour to test each variant and regular working environment is unavailable.

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Jan Krapivin]

> Run the command as root, but you already have enough keywords to search
> in bug reports and discussions related to PipeWire and pulseaudio. The
> latter may have some workarounds for specific models of headphones.


Thanks, i will try to research this topic.


> PipeWire mailing list or forum may be a better place to discuss the issue.
>

OK

While watching *pactl subscribe *command output, i have noticed that there
was a change from sink 414 to sink 213 when sound interrupt occurred

"Event 'change' on sink-input #414
Event 'change' on sink-input #414
Event 'change' on sink-input #414
Event 'change' on sink-input #213
Event 'change' on sink-input #213
Event 'change' on sink-input #213"

Can this information be of any help?

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Max Nikulin]

On 12/03/2024 03:48, Jan Krapivin wrote:


"Mar 11 22:20:13 deb wireplumber[1357]: RFCOMM receive command but modem 
not available: AT+XIAOMI=1,1,102,85,88,27,174"


Just a wild guess, unlikely it is true. Headphones might report battery 
charge level using a vendor protocol extension. 85 and 88 are decreasing 
in later messages.


Sound stream may be interrupted when headphones decide to balance 
battery discharge by switching device that communicates with laptop.


Perhaps messages related to input devices are different because it is 
Wayland session while I use KDE with X11 session, so in my case 
messages are "Watching system buttons" instead of "KEYBOARD...".


You may use --since and --until journalctl options to get system logs 
for the same time intervals you posted.

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Max Nikulin]

On 12/03/2024 03:48, Jan Krapivin wrote:


As for journald i have a lot of such errors, but they don't influence 
the audio quality:


"Mar 11 22:20:13 deb wireplumber[1357]: RFCOMM receive command but modem 
not available: AT+XIAOMI=1,1,102,85,88,27,174"


Headphones might expect some response to some of these command and might 
drop connection otherwise.



journalctl -f
Hint: You are currently not seeing messages from other users and the system.
  Users in groups 'adm', 'systemd-journal' can see all messages.


Run the command as root, but you already have enough keywords to search 
in bug reports and discussions related to PipeWire and pulseaudio. The 
latter may have some workarounds for specific models of headphones.



Mar 11 23:14:11 deb gsd-media-keys[1744]: Unable to get default sink
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) event25 - Haylou W1 
(AVRCP): device removed
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb gsd-media-keys[1744]: Unable to get default sink
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) event25 - Haylou W1 
(AVRCP): device removed
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (**) Option "fd" "78"
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) UnloadModule: 
"libinput"
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) systemd-logind: 
releasing fd for 13:89
Mar 11 23:14:11 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (EE) systemd-logind: 
failed to release device: Device not taken
Mar 11 23:14:12 deb wireplumber[1357]: set volume 74 failed for transport 
/org/bluez/hci0/dev_9C_19_C2_1B_A7_25/sep4/fd1 (No such property 'Volume')
Mar 11 23:14:14 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) config/udev: Adding 
input device Haylou W1 (AVRCP) (/dev/input/event25)
Mar 11 23:14:14 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (**) Haylou W1 (AVRCP): Applying 
InputClass "libinput keyboard catchall"
Mar 11 23:14:14 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) Using input driver 
'libinput' for 'Haylou W1 (AVRCP)'


So device disappears for some reason. Perhaps driver receives something 
unexpected, perhaps headphone do not receive something they expect.



Mar 11 23:24:28 deb /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[1449]: (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input 
device "Haylou W1 (AVRCP)" (type: KEYBOARD, id 20)


Check if similar lines are logged on Mint. KEYBOARD looks a bit strange, 
but perhaps it is normal for GNOME.


PipeWire mailing list or forum may be a better place to discuss the issue.

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Jan Krapivin]

It is strange. I can see in a Debian mailing list an answer

- *From*: Ottavio Caruso 
- *Date*: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 16:50:45 +

"Not sure if this is your case, I had the same problem but I upgraded from
11 to 12. The transition from pulse to pipewire was not smooth. So I nuked
anything *pulse* and *bluetooth* and reinstalled from scratch using the
Debian guide:

https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire

Is this a brand new installation or an upgrade?"

But i can't see it in my mailbox


*ANSWER*


No, this is a clean new installation. And it looks like i have the
same problem on another laptop with Debian 12 XFCE (Pulseaudio).

But the problem is with *TWO* headsets, so i am in question whats
happening with Debian, because Linux Mint and Android works fine...





пн, 11 мар. 2024 г. в 23:48, Jan Krapivin :

> Hello again. I have used *pactl subscribe *command and i think that in
> the moment of sound interrupt there are the corresponding lines:
>
> "Event 'remove' on sink-input #353
> Event 'new' on sink-input #358
> Event 'change' on sink-input #358"
>
> As for journald i have a lot of such errors, but they don't influence the
> audio quality:
>
> "Mar 11 22:20:13 deb wireplumber[1357]: RFCOMM receive command but modem
> not available: AT+XIAOMI=1,1,102,85,88,27,174"
>
> There are some other mentions of the bluetooth/headphones, but they don't
> meet the moment of sound issues. Full journald -f log is in an attachment.
>
> I must say that i had an opportunity today to test a laptop with Debian 12
> XFCE laptop with Pulseaudio and the problem is the same there. But, as i
> said, on a laptop with Linux Mint XFCE everything is fine. That's strange.
> What is the main difference between Linux Mint and Debian here..?
>
> I also tried Liquorix 6.7 kernel but it didn't help.
>
> Thanks.
>

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Jan Krapivin]

Hello again. I have used *pactl subscribe *command and i think that in the
moment of sound interrupt there are the corresponding lines:

"Event 'remove' on sink-input #353
Event 'new' on sink-input #358
Event 'change' on sink-input #358"

As for journald i have a lot of such errors, but they don't influence the
audio quality:

"Mar 11 22:20:13 deb wireplumber[1357]: RFCOMM receive command but modem
not available: AT+XIAOMI=1,1,102,85,88,27,174"

There are some other mentions of the bluetooth/headphones, but they don't
meet the moment of sound issues. Full journald -f log is in an attachment.

I must say that i had an opportunity today to test a laptop with Debian 12
XFCE laptop with Pulseaudio and the problem is the same there. But, as i
said, on a laptop with Linux Mint XFCE everything is fine. That's strange.
What is the main difference between Linux Mint and Debian here..?

I also tried Liquorix 6.7 kernel but it didn't help.

Thanks.
journalctl -f
Hint: You are currently not seeing messages from other users and the system.
  Users in groups 'adm', 'systemd-journal' can see all messages.
  Pass -q to turn off this notice.
Mar 11 21:28:16 deb wireplumber[1357]: RFCOMM receive command but modem not 
available: AT+BTRH?
Mar 11 21:28:16 deb wireplumber[1357]: RFCOMM receive command but modem not 
available: AT+XIAOMI=1,1,102,100,100,27,174
Mar 11 21:29:21 deb systemd[1331]: Started 
app-gnome-gnome\x2dterminal-6829.scope - Application launched by gsd-media-keys.
Mar 11 21:29:21 deb dbus-daemon[1367]: [session uid=1000 pid=1367] Activating 
via systemd: service name='org.gnome.Terminal' 
unit='gnome-terminal-server.service' requested by ':1.131' (uid=1000 pid=6829 
comm="gnome-terminal")
Mar 11 21:29:21 deb systemd[1331]: Starting gnome-terminal-server.service - 
GNOME Terminal Server...
Mar 11 21:29:22 deb dbus-daemon[1367]: [session uid=1000 pid=1367] Successfully 
activated service 'org.gnome.Terminal'
Mar 11 21:29:22 deb systemd[1331]: Started gnome-terminal-server.service - 
GNOME Terminal Server.
Mar 11 21:29:22 deb systemd[1331]: Started 
vte-spawn-82cf01f4-467e-44e1-b0e3-19af9cb02a2a.scope - VTE child process 6864 
launched by gnome-terminal-server process 6834.
Mar 11 21:30:27 deb systemd[1331]: Started 
app-gnome-gnome\x2dterminal-7042.scope - Application launched by gsd-media-keys.
Mar 11 21:30:27 deb systemd[1331]: Started 
vte-spawn-6e59a663-467e-40c5-9553-ad6b513aeecb.scope - VTE child process 7048 
launched by gnome-terminal-server process 6834.
Mar 11 21:33:03 deb gnome-shell[1624]: Wallpaper Slideshow: Changing 
wallpaper...
Mar 11 21:33:03 deb gnome-shell[1624]: Wallpaper Slideshow: Current wallpaper 
"a2.jpg"
Mar 11 21:33:03 deb gnome-shell[1624]: Wallpaper Slideshow: Wallpapers in 
queue: 8
Mar 11 21:33:03 deb gnome-shell[1624]: Wallpaper Slideshow: Next slide in 600 
seconds.
Mar 11 21:41:51 deb gnome-shell[1624]: JS ERROR: Gio.DBusError: 
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: No such property 
“IconAccessibleDesc”
   
_promisify/proto[asyncFunc]/

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Jan Krapivin]

пн, 11 мар. 2024 г. в 07:50, Max Nikulin :

>
> Are there anything in journalctl output (executed as root) around these
> events?
>

I guess that no, but i will recheck.


> Is XFCE configured to use pulseaudio or PipeWire as GNOME?
>

Pulseaudio


> Another option might be LC3 codec from Bluetooth LE (5.2 Basic Audio
> Profile) if it is supported by the headphones.
>

Unfortunately it's not supported.


> Either a software/hardware bug or some piece of software disables power
> saving for handsfree/headset profiles to achieve low latency, but for
> A2DP device tries to sleep after some period of time.
>

 Hm, i will try to research that, thank you.

Arch Linux wiki pages have long troubleshooting sections.
>

Yes, I saw but found nothing relatable to my view.

Last resort might be dumping bluetooth traffic, but perhaps it is better
> to ask in some mailing list or forum more close to Bluetooth stack
> developers.
>

I have installed Wireshark, but somehow i can't find bluetooth connection
to capture
(https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=795020#p795020)

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Max Nikulin]

Please, respond to the mailing list.

On 11/03/2024 11:50, Max Nikulin wrote:

https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser/a2dp

Last resort might be dumping bluetooth traffic


The link above has an example

dumpcap -i bluetooth0

Another tool is

hcidump -w /tmp/bt.pcap

However at first I would check logs using journalctl. Maybe debug should 
be enabled for bluez and PipeWire.

Re: Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Max Nikulin]

On 10/03/2024 21:07, Jan Krapivin wrote:
Hello! I have a problem with sound quality when using bluetooth 
headphones on Debian 12 GNOME.


Every ~20 minutes, sometimes less, sometimes more, sound interrupts for 
a 1-5 seconds with complete silence.


Are there anything in journalctl output (executed as root) around these 
events?


At first I thought that problem can be in the headphones, though it have 
worked fine with Android phone and Linux Mint XFCE on a other laptop.


Is XFCE configured to use pulseaudio or PipeWire as GNOME?

So I bought another headphones with support of different codecs: SBC, 
AAC, and AptX.


Another option might be LC3 codec from Bluetooth LE (5.2 Basic Audio 
Profile) if it is supported by the headphones.


Though in mSBC there are no interruptions. I wonder why mSBC works fine 
and SBC no..?


Either a software/hardware bug or some piece of software disables power 
saving for handsfree/headset profiles to achieve low latency, but for 
A2DP device tries to sleep after some period of time. At least SBC 
allows to decrease bitrate if connection is unreliable. I have read 
somewhere that current drivers can not increase bitrate without 
reconnection. It is just speculations, do not take it too serious.


Arch Linux wiki pages have long troubleshooting sections. Debian ones 
are partially outdated:

https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser
https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser/a2dp

Last resort might be dumping bluetooth traffic, but perhaps it is better 
to ask in some mailing list or forum more close to Bluetooth stack 
developers.

Bluetooth sound problems Debian 12 GNOME

[Jan Krapivin]

Hello! I have a problem with sound quality when using bluetooth headphones
on Debian 12 GNOME.

Every ~20 minutes, sometimes less, sometimes more, sound interrupts for a
1-5 seconds with complete silence.

At first I thought that problem can be in the headphones, though it have
worked fine with Android phone and Linux Mint XFCE on a other laptop.

So I bought another headphones with support of different codecs: SBC, AAC,
and AptX.

And I have the same problem, but now I hear not only silence but also a
crackling, when sound interrupts.

I tried different codecs, including AAC (
https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=777598#p777598). But the problem
prevails.

Yes, I must of course mention that there is absolutely no problems, when
using non-bluetooth devices like speakers, headphones etc.

The only workaround is to use HSP mSBC codec in Heandsfree mode, but the
sound is awful.

Though in mSBC there are no interruptions. I wonder why mSBC works fine and
SBC no..?


My system is (inxi)

Bluetooth:

Device-1: Intel AX210 Bluetooth type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8

bus-ID: 1-10:3 chip-ID: 8087:0032 class-ID: e001

Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: 

Info: acl-mtu: 1021:4 sco-mtu: 96:6 link-policy: rswitch sniff

link-mode: peripheral accept service-classes: rendering, capturing, object

transfer, audio, telephony


Audio:

Device-1: Intel Cannon Lake PCH cAVS driver: snd_hda_intel

Device-2: NVIDIA GP107GL High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel

Device-3: Creative Sound Blaster Play! 3 type: USB

driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid

API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-18-amd64 status: kernel-api

Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: active


What have i tried?

Creating choppy-under-load.conf file in
/home/ja/.config/pipewire/pipewire-pulse.conf.d/ with


“context.properties = {

default.clock.quantum = 8192

default.clock.min-quantum = 8192

}”


Creating switch-on-connect.conf file with


pulse.cmd = [

{ cmd = "load-module" args = "module-always-sink" flags = [ ] }

{ cmd = "load-module" args = "module-switch-on-connect" }

]


Unfortunately I have no ideas what to try further as I am not a
power-user/techy.

I have tried to use PulseAudio, pipe-wire media session and not
Wireplumber, backported version of PipeWire, but all these attempts left me
with GDM/Gnome removed from the system! As Gnome now have
Pipewire/Wireplumber as dependency.

I want to try all options possible (if any) before I ditch Gnome in favour
of DE, that supports Pulseaudio.

P.S. I have tried two different bluetooth hardware modules, one on a Wi-fi
chip and one USB-stick, with no difference.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[Byunghee HWANG]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 05/02/2024 12:08, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
>> On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
>>> So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
>>> you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
>>> in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark.
>> Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug.
>
> I have no idea concerning GNOME in sid, but a KDE applet from
> nm-plasma in bookworm is able to react to commands
>
> ip link set enp0s2 down
> ip link set enp0s2 up
>
> in a VM when the only interface (besides lo) is managed by
> ifupdown. When the interface is down, the icon changed to a dimmed one
> with a red "x".
>
> I have not figured out how to determine state using nmcli or through
> various objects reported by
>
> busctl tree org.freedesktop.NetworkManager
>
> E.g. nm-online always reports success. It might be some fallback in
> the KDE applet. Depending on that it is either a bug or not in the
> GNOME applet.
>
> P.S.
>
> nmcli dev
> DEVICE  TYPE  STATE   CONNECTION
> lo  loopback  connected (externally)  lo
> enp0s2  ethernet  unmanaged   --
>
> nmcli con
> NAME  UUID  TYPE  DEVICE
> lo18c86315-d7f9-417e-ab2c-c131803b4c0b  loopback  lo
>
> nm-online ; echo $?
> Connecting...   30s [online]
> 0
>

Hellow Max!

Actuallu i have a weak technical background. So i don't know well your
professional analyze. Just i use default values by automatic.

Anyway i attach some screenshot more. As you see to me:


soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ ls -l /etc/network/
total 24
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:29 if-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:29 if-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid
Release:n/a
Codename:   trixie
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ nmcli dev
DEVICE  TYPE  STATE   CONNECTION 
wlp4s0  wifi  connected   V30_3982   
lo  loopback  connected (externally)  lo 
enp2s0  ethernet  unavailable -- 
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ nmcli con
NAMEUUID  TYPE  DEVICE 
V30_3982d5a7a052-5756-4ab9-85b5-a4576b5d4e4d  wifi  wlp4s0 
lo  6b998a36-ea29-4d65-baab-d6d3a8ef  loopback  lo 
Wired connection 1  77a0f34e-c572-38c7-b28d-4f08a33be077  ethernet  -- 
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ ping -c 3 google.com.
PING google.com. (2404:6800:400a:804::200e) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=1 
ttl=51 time=211 ms
64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=2 
ttl=51 time=121 ms
64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=3 
ttl=51 time=255 ms

--- google.com. ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2004ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 121.185/195.563/254.546/55.522 ms
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ echo "I am using GNOME Debian (sid) Thank you Max ^^^"
I am using GNOME Debian (sid) Thank you Max ^^^
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ date
Sun Feb 25 01:47:11 PM KST 2024


V30_3982 is LG Smartphone (WiFi HotSpot), for the record.


Sincerely, Byunghee from South Korea

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


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Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/02/2024 12:08, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:

So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark.


Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug.


I have no idea concerning GNOME in sid, but a KDE applet from nm-plasma 
in bookworm is able to react to commands


ip link set enp0s2 down
ip link set enp0s2 up

in a VM when the only interface (besides lo) is managed by ifupdown. 
When the interface is down, the icon changed to a dimmed one with a red "x".


I have not figured out how to determine state using nmcli or through 
various objects reported by


busctl tree org.freedesktop.NetworkManager

E.g. nm-online always reports success. It might be some fallback in the 
KDE applet. Depending on that it is either a bug or not in the GNOME applet.


P.S.

nmcli dev
DEVICE  TYPE  STATE   CONNECTION
lo  loopback  connected (externally)  lo
enp0s2  ethernet  unmanaged   --

nmcli con
NAME  UUID  TYPE  DEVICE
lo18c86315-d7f9-417e-ab2c-c131803b4c0b  loopback  lo

nm-online ; echo $?
Connecting...   30s [online]
0

tree view gone in nautilus (gnome files) for debian ?

[Wim Bertels]

Hello,

since d12 (at least?) i can no longer view files and directory in a
tree view? is this intentional?

tnx

Re: rec recording, Re: Upgrade to Bookworm, now GNOME keyring dies …

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2024 21 Feb 12:42 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 19 Feb 2024 at 13:26:17 (-0600), Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > 
> > After seeing this twice this morning I recalled that I have a cron entry
> > to kill the 'rec' program.  This was to break up audio files into hourly
> > segments when recording an amateur radio event.  This was the cron
> > command:
> > 
> > # Rotate sound recorder files
> > 00 * * * * /usr/bin/pkill -f rec > /dev/null 2> /dev/null
> > 
> > On a hunch I commented that line and Voila! the daemon ran through the
> > next hour change and is still running as expected.  The man page states
> > that the '-f' option matches against the full command line, not just the
> > process name.  So, looking at the gnome-keyring-daemon command line:
> > 
> >1857 ?SLsl   0:00 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon --foreground 
> > --components=pkcs11,secrets --control-directory=/run/user/1000/keyring
> > 
> > I see that the 'rec' in 'directory' provided the match!  Confirmed with
> > pgrep:
> > 
> > $ pgrep -f rec
> > 1857
> > 
> > It looks like the solution for the future will be to change the cron
> > line to:
> > 
> > 00 * * * * /usr/bin/pkill -f /usr/bin/rec > /dev/null 2> /dev/null
> 
> I can't get that to work here. When I kill rec, it just dies. Is pkill
> sending SIGTERM, which appears to be the default? Nor can I find this
> documented—though the sox docs are lengthy, so I might have missed it.
> 
> I can use SIGUSR1 with arecord, and that works perfectly.

It gets restarted by a script called by the 'tlf' amateur radio logging
program.  The script is:

https://github.com/Tlf/tlf/blob/master/scripts/soundlog

It's a hack!

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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rec recording, Re: Upgrade to Bookworm, now GNOME keyring dies …

[David Wright]

On Mon 19 Feb 2024 at 13:26:17 (-0600), Nate Bargmann wrote:
> 
> After seeing this twice this morning I recalled that I have a cron entry
> to kill the 'rec' program.  This was to break up audio files into hourly
> segments when recording an amateur radio event.  This was the cron
> command:
> 
> # Rotate sound recorder files
> 00 * * * * /usr/bin/pkill -f rec > /dev/null 2> /dev/null
> 
> On a hunch I commented that line and Voila! the daemon ran through the
> next hour change and is still running as expected.  The man page states
> that the '-f' option matches against the full command line, not just the
> process name.  So, looking at the gnome-keyring-daemon command line:
> 
>1857 ?SLsl   0:00 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon --foreground 
> --components=pkcs11,secrets --control-directory=/run/user/1000/keyring
> 
> I see that the 'rec' in 'directory' provided the match!  Confirmed with
> pgrep:
> 
> $ pgrep -f rec
> 1857
> 
> It looks like the solution for the future will be to change the cron
> line to:
> 
> 00 * * * * /usr/bin/pkill -f /usr/bin/rec > /dev/null 2> /dev/null

I can't get that to work here. When I kill rec, it just dies. Is pkill
sending SIGTERM, which appears to be the default? Nor can I find this
documented—though the sox docs are lengthy, so I might have missed it.

I can use SIGUSR1 with arecord, and that works perfectly.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Upgrade to Bookworm, now GNOME keyring dies--no access to stored SSH key passwords

[Nate Bargmann]

Well, it appears like most things in life this one was self inflicted.
郎

Yesterday I was working on another project and to verify something was
occurring the 'strace' utility was recommended.  It dawned on me that
this could help me get a clue as to what was happening to the
gnome-keyring-daemon.  Using strace attached to the PID of the daemon
after a reboot showed it was getting the SIGTERM signal at exactly the
top of the hour.  What?!!

After seeing this twice this morning I recalled that I have a cron entry
to kill the 'rec' program.  This was to break up audio files into hourly
segments when recording an amateur radio event.  This was the cron
command:

# Rotate sound recorder files
00 * * * * /usr/bin/pkill -f rec > /dev/null 2> /dev/null

On a hunch I commented that line and Voila! the daemon ran through the
next hour change and is still running as expected.  The man page states
that the '-f' option matches against the full command line, not just the
process name.  So, looking at the gnome-keyring-daemon command line:

   1857 ?SLsl   0:00 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon --foreground 
--components=pkcs11,secrets --control-directory=/run/user/1000/keyring

I see that the 'rec' in 'directory' provided the match!  Confirmed with
pgrep:

$ pgrep -f rec
1857

It looks like the solution for the future will be to change the cron
line to:

00 * * * * /usr/bin/pkill -f /usr/bin/rec > /dev/null 2> /dev/null

When I want to use it next in order to protect other processes.

I certainly hope this is resolved.  OTOH, it forced me to recall a
number of passwords!  藍

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: Emoji broken in gnome-terminal

[Byunghee HWANG]

Hellow Ash!

On Mon, 2024-02-19 at 11:14 +1300, Ash Joubert wrote:
> On 2024-02-19 08:57, Ash Joubert wrote:
> > I removed /etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf (as root) and ran 
> > "fc-cache -f" (as user). I still have a few missing emojis in 
> > xfce4-terminal (flags and combined emojis) but geany is fixed.
> Working test-emoji screenshot attached (xfce4-terminal on sid). 
> 

Now solved problem, it works, thanks ^^^ (⚡️⚡⚡)
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/commit/56d70211802fc69938411ab4c06747c7dc102d90


Sincerely, Byunghee from South Korea


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Re: Emoji broken in gnome-terminal

[Ash Joubert]

On 2024-02-19 08:57, Ash Joubert wrote:
I removed /etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf (as root) and ran 
"fc-cache -f" (as user). I still have a few missing emojis in 
xfce4-terminal (flags and combined emojis) but geany is fixed.

Working test-emoji screenshot attached (xfce4-terminal on sid). 

--
Ash Joubert (they/them) 
Director / Game Developer
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: Emoji broken in gnome-terminal

[Ash Joubert]

On 2024-02-19 07:08, Ash Joubert wrote:

On 2024-02-18 23:33, Byunghee HWANG wrote:

On Sun, 2024-02-18 at 16:23 +0900, Byunghee HWANG wrote:

I am using Gnome desktop in Debian Sid. Today, after upgrade package
via apt update/upgrade, i can not see emoji in gnome-terminal.


I am also on sid and see similar (loss of colour emojis) in 
xfce4-terminal and geany under X. There was fontconfig update on sid.


Partial solution:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=2141395#p2141395

I had the same issue and deleting the /etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf 
symlink fixed it for me. I guess fontconfig 2.15 considers Noto Color Emoji a 
bitmap font.


I removed /etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf (as root) and ran 
"fc-cache -f" (as user). I still have a few missing emojis in 
xfce4-terminal (flags and combined emojis) but geany is fixed.



Cheers,

--
Ash Joubert (they/them) 
Director / Game Developer
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

Re: Emoji broken in gnome-terminal

[Ash Joubert]

On 2024-02-18 23:33, Byunghee HWANG wrote:

On Sun, 2024-02-18 at 16:23 +0900, Byunghee HWANG wrote:

Hellow,
I am using Gnome desktop in Debian Sid. Today, after upgrade package
via apt update/upgrade, i can not see emoji in gnome-terminal.
(...)

Just now, i did clean-up with screenshots [1],[2],[3].
[1] test screenshot in bullseye
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/raw/ab63bd169a9c3deb60063398518c5a055d0ee9b8/gnome-terminal/test-emoji-bullseye.png
[2] test screenshot in sid
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/raw/1a95638c7722b52a1a2aae0111b29a630ae013f9/gnome-terminal/test-emoji-sid.png
[3] test source code (text UTF-8 emoji)
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/raw/ab63bd169a9c3deb60063398518c5a055d0ee9b8/gnome-terminal/test-emoji.txt
Both bullseye and sid are under Wayland.
Consider this one please... if it is not a bug.
Thanks, Byunghee from South Korea


I am also on sid and see similar (loss of colour emojis) in 
xfce4-terminal and geany under X. There was fontconfig update on sid.


Cheers,

--
Ash Joubert (they/them) 
Director / Game Developer
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

Re: Emoji broken in gnome-terminal

[Byunghee HWANG]

On Sun, 2024-02-18 at 16:23 +0900, Byunghee HWANG wrote:
> Hellow,
> 
> I am using Gnome desktop in Debian Sid. Today, after upgrade package
> via apt update/upgrade, i can not see emoji in gnome-terminal.
> 
> (...)

Just now, i did clean-up with screenshots [1],[2],[3].

[1] test screenshot in bullseye
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/raw/ab63bd169a9c3deb60063398518c5a055d0ee9b8/gnome-terminal/test-emoji-bullseye.png

[2] test screenshot in sid
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/raw/1a95638c7722b52a1a2aae0111b29a630ae013f9/gnome-terminal/test-emoji-sid.png

[3] test source code (text UTF-8 emoji)
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/raw/ab63bd169a9c3deb60063398518c5a055d0ee9b8/gnome-terminal/test-emoji.txt


Both bullseye and sid are under Wayland.
Consider this one please... if it is not a bug.


Thanks, Byunghee from South Korea




signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Emoji broken in gnome-terminal

[Byunghee HWANG]

Hellow,

I am using Gnome desktop in Debian Sid. Today, after upgrade package
via apt update/upgrade, i can not see emoji in gnome-terminal.

Here related screenshot[1]:

https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/raw/8bec2cc5d8b9d74438c17b8c202d753b15c09ab6/test-emoji.png


Really i would like to solve this problem. 


Thanks, Byunghee from South Korea


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Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

Hellow David,

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Sun 04 Feb 2024 at 13:57:13 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> > On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 10:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 07:37:34 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 07:05:55 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > > > > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance
> > > > > > NetworkManager would
> > > > > > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would
> > > > > > take over.
> > > > > > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown
> > > > > > config?)
> > > > > 
> > > > > That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown
> > > > > plugin
> > > > > that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm
> > > > > assuming the
> > > > > OP has not installed that in their sleep.
> > > > 
> > > > They wouldn't need to because it looks like it's shipped with
> > > > the main
> > > > network-manage package which contains various files with
> > > > 'plugin' in
> > > > their name, including libnm-settings-plugin-ifupdown.so.
> > > 
> > > What I said was unlikely is that an option in ifupdown's
> > > configuration,
> > > /e/n/i, would control NM's behaviour. It's the mere mention of
> > > the
> > > interface there, as in   iface enp5s0 inet dhcp   that makes
> > > ifupdown
> > > control it, and makes NM back off, AIUI.
> > > 
> > > > As we've seen from the OPs latest reply, the plugin is
> > > > configured to
> > > > not manage interfaces.
> > > 
> > > Right, and so the default NM configuration (ifupdown plugin
> > > present,
> > > news to me) and   [ifupdown] // managed=false   in the .conf
> > > file,
> > > means that NM should not, by default, configure any interface
> > > mentioned in /e/n/i. In the OP's case, the original /e/n/i:
> > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> > > is big enough to hold a typical lo+eth+wlan configuration, which
> > > we haven't seen yet.
> > 
> > Sorry for late, David! 
> 
> That's the beauty of mailing lists: it just doesn't matter.
> 
> > root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# cat interfaces.orig
> > # This file describes the network interfaces available on your
> > system
> > # and how to activate them. For more information, see
> > interfaces(5).
> > 
> > source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
> > 
> > # The loopback network interface
> > auto lo
> > iface lo inet loopback
> > 
> > # The primary network interface
> > allow-hotplug wlp4s0
> > iface wlp4s0 inet dhcp
> > # wireless-* options are implemented by the wireless-tools
> > package
> > wireless-mode managed
> > wireless-essid V30_3982
> > root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# date
> 
> So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
> you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
> in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark. Now you've
> removed it, NM has taken over. That's just as in the first answer
> (Stephen Kitt Jul 23, 2018 7:00), except for the minor detail that
> Kitt mentions one should down the interface before moving /e/n/i
> if one wants to make the change cleanly, without rebooting.
> 
> (Frequently, people forget that /e/n/i is reread by ifupdown
> whenever you run its binaries; that's different from how many
> other programs treat their configuration files.)
> 
> > 1. I have never touched the inside of that file.
> > 2. I guess the real original file was from Debian 12. 
> 
> Not knowing the history of your installation, I wouldn't like
> to guess exactly how NM and ifupdown arrived at your earlier
> situation. But to answer the question posed in your OP,
> there's no bug here—just two wifi configuration methods
> being prioritised in accordance with their design.
> 
> Cheers,
> David.

Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug. And thank you to Max
and Tixy for participating in this discussion.

I'm happy now. Also Debian Sid are good for desktop, i think.


Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[David Wright]

On Sun 04 Feb 2024 at 13:57:13 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 10:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 07:37:34 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 07:05:55 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > > > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> > > > > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager would
> > > > > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take over.
> > > > > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)
> > > > 
> > > > That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown plugin
> > > > that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming the
> > > > OP has not installed that in their sleep.
> > > 
> > > They wouldn't need to because it looks like it's shipped with the main
> > > network-manage package which contains various files with 'plugin' in
> > > their name, including libnm-settings-plugin-ifupdown.so.
> > 
> > What I said was unlikely is that an option in ifupdown's configuration,
> > /e/n/i, would control NM's behaviour. It's the mere mention of the
> > interface there, as in   iface enp5s0 inet dhcp   that makes ifupdown
> > control it, and makes NM back off, AIUI.
> > 
> > > As we've seen from the OPs latest reply, the plugin is configured to
> > > not manage interfaces.
> > 
> > Right, and so the default NM configuration (ifupdown plugin present,
> > news to me) and   [ifupdown] // managed=false   in the .conf file,
> > means that NM should not, by default, configure any interface
> > mentioned in /e/n/i. In the OP's case, the original /e/n/i:
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> > is big enough to hold a typical lo+eth+wlan configuration, which
> > we haven't seen yet.
> 
> Sorry for late, David! 

That's the beauty of mailing lists: it just doesn't matter.

> root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# cat interfaces.orig
> # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
> 
> source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
> 
> # The loopback network interface
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
> 
> # The primary network interface
> allow-hotplug wlp4s0
> iface wlp4s0 inet dhcp
>   # wireless-* options are implemented by the wireless-tools
> package
>   wireless-mode managed
>   wireless-essid V30_3982
> root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# date

So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark. Now you've
removed it, NM has taken over. That's just as in the first answer
(Stephen Kitt Jul 23, 2018 7:00), except for the minor detail that
Kitt mentions one should down the interface before moving /e/n/i
if one wants to make the change cleanly, without rebooting.

(Frequently, people forget that /e/n/i is reread by ifupdown
whenever you run its binaries; that's different from how many
other programs treat their configuration files.)

> 1. I have never touched the inside of that file.
> 2. I guess the real original file was from Debian 12. 

Not knowing the history of your installation, I wouldn't like
to guess exactly how NM and ifupdown arrived at your earlier
situation. But to answer the question posed in your OP,
there's no bug here—just two wifi configuration methods
being prioritised in accordance with their design.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 10:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 07:37:34 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> > > > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance
> > > > NetworkManager
> > > > would
> > > > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take
> > > > over.
> > > > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown
> > > > config?)
> > > 
> > > That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown
> > > plugin
> > > that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming
> > > the
> > > OP has not installed that in their sleep.
> > 
> > They wouldn't need to because it looks like it's shipped with the
> > main
> > network-manage package which contains various files with 'plugin'
> > in
> > their name, including libnm-settings-plugin-ifupdown.so.
> 
> What I said was unlikely is that an option in ifupdown's
> configuration,
> /e/n/i, would control NM's behaviour. It's the mere mention of the
> interface there, as in   iface enp5s0 inet dhcp   that makes ifupdown
> control it, and makes NM back off, AIUI.
> 
> > As we've seen from the OPs latest reply, the plugin is configured
> > to
> > not manage interfaces.
> 
> Right, and so the default NM configuration (ifupdown plugin present,
> news to me) and   [ifupdown] // managed=false   in the .conf file,
> means that NM should not, by default, configure any interface
> mentioned in /e/n/i. In the OP's case, the original /e/n/i:
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> is big enough to hold a typical lo+eth+wlan configuration, which
> we haven't seen yet.

Sorry for late, David! 

Still i am on Debian Sid. And all Gnome network works very well. And
here is the detail contents of /e/n/i file:


root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# ls -l
total 24
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# cat interfaces.orig
# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
allow-hotplug wlp4s0
iface wlp4s0 inet dhcp
# wireless-* options are implemented by the wireless-tools
package
wireless-mode managed
wireless-essid V30_3982
root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# date
Sun Feb  4 13:48:14 KST 2024
root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# 



NOTE: 
1. I have never touched the inside of that file.
2. I guess the real original file was from Debian 12. 

Thanks!!!


Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[David Wright]

On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 07:37:34 (+), Tixy wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> > > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager
> > > would
> > > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take
> > > over.
> > > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)
> > 
> > That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown plugin
> > that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming the
> > OP has not installed that in their sleep.
> 
> They wouldn't need to because it looks like it's shipped with the main
> network-manage package which contains various files with 'plugin' in
> their name, including libnm-settings-plugin-ifupdown.so.

What I said was unlikely is that an option in ifupdown's configuration,
/e/n/i, would control NM's behaviour. It's the mere mention of the
interface there, as in   iface enp5s0 inet dhcp   that makes ifupdown
control it, and makes NM back off, AIUI.

> As we've seen from the OPs latest reply, the plugin is configured to
> not manage interfaces.

Right, and so the default NM configuration (ifupdown plugin present,
news to me) and   [ifupdown] // managed=false   in the .conf file,
means that NM should not, by default, configure any interface
mentioned in /e/n/i. In the OP's case, the original /e/n/i:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
is big enough to hold a typical lo+eth+wlan configuration, which
we haven't seen yet.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[Tixy]

On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager
> > would
> > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take
> > over.
> > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)
> 
> That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown plugin
> that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming the
> OP has not installed that in their sleep.

They wouldn't need to because it looks like it's shipped with the main
network-manage package which contains various files with 'plugin' in
their name, including libnm-settings-plugin-ifupdown.so.

As we've seen from the OPs latest reply, the plugin is configured to
not manage interfaces.

-- 
Tixy

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[David Wright]

On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 01:18:51 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 07:05:55 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 23:49 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > > I would tend to think that:
> > > > 
> > > > . The debian-installer installs ifupdown by default when you don't
> > > >   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> > > > 
> > > > . The debian-installer installs NetworkManager by default if you do
> > > >   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> > > > 
> > > > . It shouldn't do both.
> > > 
> > > My experience, admittedly from a few releases ago, is that ifupdown is
> > > always installed but that the installer doesn't populate it's config
> > > files with the found network interfaces, only the loopback interface.
> > 
> > AIUI that would be normal behaviour when the DE installs its own
> > choice of package to handle the network.
> > 
> > But it's also what happens when you install over wifi and don't
> > select a DE: the wifi configuration is removed as the last step
> > in the installation process. It's a (mis)feature/bug that's been
> > discussed for years.
> > 
> > > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> > > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager would
> > > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take over.
> > > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)
> > 
> > That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown plugin
> > that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming the
> > OP has not installed that in their sleep. Max's request for printing
> > the configuration could confirm that.
> 
> For now it works all. And still i'm on Debian Sid. Just i attach some
> results from Max's request:

[ … ]

> soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ apt list '~i~nnetwork-manager'
> Listing... Done

That doesn't reveal whether ifupdown is installed.

[ … ]

> soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --print-config
> # NetworkManager configuration: /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
[ … ]
> plugins=ifupdown,keyfile
[ … ]
> [ifupdown]
> managed=false

so this applies:

 "managed

 "If set to false, then any interface listed in
  /etc/network/interfaces will be ignored by NetworkManager.
  Remember that NetworkManager controls the default route,
  so because the interface is ignored, NetworkManager may
  assign the default route to some other interface."

[ … ]

> soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ ls -l
> [ … ]
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig

We need to see the contents of that file (with any passwords
redacted). Its size looks large enough to contain loopback,
ethernet and wireless interface configurations. This could
mean that ifupdown was giving you your connectivity when NM
was displaying a question mark.

Cheers,
David.

GTK4 with Gnome Builder

[Serkan Kurt]

Hello.
I'm trying to learn GTK4 programming with Gnome Builder. However, although
I can make the applications at "
https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/getting_started.html; as described, I cannot
succeed with gnome-builder. When I replace the "#include "
header with the "#include " header, there is progress,
but I still get messages stating that it cannot find some library headers.
I'm trying to do this in an empty meson project.

How can I run the applications at the address given above with an empty
meson project instead of the terminal?

Best regards.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

Hellow David,

On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 07:05:55 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 23:49 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > I would tend to think that:
> > > 
> > > . The debian-installer installs ifupdown by default when you
> > > don't
> > >   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> > > 
> > > . The debian-installer installs NetworkManager by default if you
> > > do
> > >   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> > > 
> > > . It shouldn't do both.
> > > 
> > 
> > My experience, admittedly from a few releases ago, is that ifupdown
> > is
> > always installed but that the installer doesn't populate it's
> > config
> > files with the found network interfaces, only the loopback
> > interface.
> 
> AIUI that would be normal behaviour when the DE installs its own
> choice of package to handle the network.
> 
> But it's also what happens when you install over wifi and don't
> select a DE: the wifi configuration is removed as the last step
> in the installation process. It's a (mis)feature/bug that's been
> discussed for years.
> 
> > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager
> > would
> > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take
> > over.
> > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)
> 
> That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown plugin
> that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming the
> OP has not installed that in their sleep. Max's request for printing
> the configuration could confirm that.
> 

For now it works all. And still i'm on Debian Sid. Just i attach some
results from Max's request:


soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ LANG=C.UTF-8
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ date
Fri Feb  2 01:04:53 KST 2024
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ ls -l
total 24
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ apt list '~i~nnetwork-manager'
Listing... Done
network-manager-config-connectivity-debian/unstable,now 1.44.2-7 all
[installed]
network-manager-dev/unstable,now 1.44.2-7 all [installed]
network-manager-fortisslvpn-gnome/unstable,now 1.4.0-1 amd64
[installed]
network-manager-fortisslvpn/unstable,now 1.4.0-1 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-gnome/unstable,now 1.34.0-2 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-iodine-gnome/unstable,now 1.2.0-3.3 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-iodine/unstable,now 1.2.0-3.3 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-l2tp-gnome/unstable,now 1.20.10-1 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-l2tp/unstable,now 1.20.10-1 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-openconnect-gnome/unstable,now 1.2.10-3 amd64
[installed]
network-manager-openconnect/unstable,now 1.2.10-3 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-openvpn-gnome/unstable,now 1.10.2-4 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-openvpn/unstable,now 1.10.2-4 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-pptp-gnome/unstable,now 1.2.12-3 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-pptp/unstable,now 1.2.12-3 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-ssh-gnome/unstable,now 1.2.11-1.1 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-ssh/unstable,now 1.2.11-1.1 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-sstp-gnome/unstable,now 1.3.2-1 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-sstp/unstable,now 1.3.2-1 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-strongswan/unstable,now 1.6.0-3 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-vpnc-gnome/unstable,now 1.2.8-7 amd64 [installed]
network-manager-vpnc/unstable,now 1.2.8-7 amd64 [installed]
network-manager/unstable,now 1.44.2-7 amd64 [installed]
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --print-
config
# NetworkManager configuration: /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
(lib: 20-connectivity-debian.conf, no-mac-addr-change.conf)

[main]
# rc-manager=
# migrate-ifcfg-rh=false
# auth-polkit=true
# dhcp=internal
# iwd-config-path=
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile
configure-and-quit=no

[connectivity]
uri=http://network-test.debian.org/nm

[ifupdown]
managed=false

[logging]
# backend=journal
# audit=true

[device]
# wifi.backend=wpa_supplicant

[device-31-mac-addr-change]
match-device=driver:eagle_sdio,driver:wl
wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no

# no-auto-default file "/var/lib/NetworkManager/no-auto-default.state"
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$


Plus, my INTERNET Router is LG Smartphone (LGM-V300K). By Mobile
Hotspot (SK Telecom), thanks!

 
Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[David Wright]

On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 07:05:55 (+), Tixy wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 23:49 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > I would tend to think that:
> > 
> > . The debian-installer installs ifupdown by default when you don't
> >   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> > 
> > . The debian-installer installs NetworkManager by default if you do
> >   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> > 
> > . It shouldn't do both.
> > 
> 
> My experience, admittedly from a few releases ago, is that ifupdown is
> always installed but that the installer doesn't populate it's config
> files with the found network interfaces, only the loopback interface.

AIUI that would be normal behaviour when the DE installs its own
choice of package to handle the network.

But it's also what happens when you install over wifi and don't
select a DE: the wifi configuration is removed as the last step
in the installation process. It's a (mis)feature/bug that's been
discussed for years.

> I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager would
> not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take over.
> (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)

That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown plugin
that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming the
OP has not installed that in their sleep. Max's request for printing
the configuration could confirm that.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

Hellow David,

On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 23:49 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 10:13:34 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> > On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 09:35 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Mon 29 Jan 2024 at 21:36:39 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희)
> > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > For months ago, i did upgrade Debian 12 to Debian Sid. At that
> > > > time,
> > > > Gnome network icon was odd. That appered as like question mark.
> > > > So
> > > > after i googling, i removed some file in /etc. Then OK! The
> > > > Internet is
> > > > started. (i did googling with smartphone).
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ LANG=C.UTF-8 ls -l
> > > > total 24
> > > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-down.d
> > > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
> > > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
> > > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-up.d
> > > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
> > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> > > > soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > As you see above, i removed /etc/network/interfaces file.
> > > > Anyway
> > > > now it
> > > > works everything! No problem!
> > > > 
> > > > Is this a bug? Or am i wrong?
> > > > 
> > > > Ref: 
> > > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/457856/how-to-fix-debians-networkmanager-with-question-mark-even-though-network-is-wor
> > > 
> > > AIUI there are several network configuration tools that defer to
> > > configurations that are set up in /e/n/i, which would be handled
> > > by ifupdown preferentially. Generally, removing /e/n/i
> > > completely,
> > > as you have, is fine. One side effect is that any entries in
> > > /e/n/interfaces.d/ will also be disabled.
> > > 
> > > The only machine on which I keep /e/n/i and ifupdown is my
> > > travelling
> > > laptop, for tethering with my phone:
> > > 
> > >   allow-hotplug usb0
> > > 
> > >   iface usb0 inet dhcp
> > > 
> > > BTW I don't know why you're running sid, but it's generally
> > > expected
> > > that sid users would be familiar with stuff like this,
> > > particularly
> > > as your question is already answered in the reference.
> > 
> > In frankly, i don't know interface things and network tools.
> > Whenever I
> > use the default value, just as it is. So still i don't understand
> > your
> > reply message in technically.
> 
> You have Gnome installed, which implies you configure the network
> with
> something like NetworkManager.
> 
> You /had/ a file called /etc/network/interfaces, which implied you
> were
> configuring the network with ifupdown.
> 
> If you try to configure the same /interface/ (which could be called
> something like eth0) with both NetworkManager and ifupdown, then
> NetworkManager should back off and let ifupdown do the configuring.
> 
> I can't tell you whether that makes Gnome display a question mark,
> but
> others might know. (I don't use Gnome, NetworkManager, or ifupdown.)

You see here:
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/stuff/-/commit/6796b4fcd3fb3b0e5228b20ecd3209d7d1de0af4
I reproduced the odd screenshot -- question mark. I restored the file
/e/n/i as you know.


> 
> When you renamed the file to /etc/network/interfaces.orig, then
> ifupdown can no longer read it, nor take priority over
> NetworkManager,
> and NetworkManager should be happy to configure the interface itself.
> The question mark should go away. (Do you get a happy face displayed
> instead, or is NetworkManager more boring than that?)
> 
> I would tend to think that:
> 
> . The debian-installer installs ifupdown by default when you don't
>   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> 
> . The debian-installer installs NetworkManager by default if you do
>   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> 
> . It shouldn't do both.
> 
> But, if you upgrade an ifupdown-system and add NetworkManager in
> whatever way, then it's up to you to remove/hide any ifupdown
> configuration that you want NetworkManager to perform. That's
> probably what you did by renaming the file.
> 

Thank you for your kind and detailed analysis, David! I will refer to
your analysis the next time i encounter a similar difficulty.


Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[Tixy]

On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 23:49 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> I would tend to think that:
> 
> . The debian-installer installs ifupdown by default when you don't
>   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> 
> . The debian-installer installs NetworkManager by default if you do
>   install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,
> 
> . It shouldn't do both.
> 

My experience, admittedly from a few releases ago, is that ifupdown is
always installed but that the installer doesn't populate it's config
files with the found network interfaces, only the loopback interface.

I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
/etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager would
not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take over.
(Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)

-- 
Tixy

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[David Wright]

On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 10:13:34 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 09:35 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > On Mon 29 Jan 2024 at 21:36:39 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> > > 
> > > For months ago, i did upgrade Debian 12 to Debian Sid. At that
> > > time,
> > > Gnome network icon was odd. That appered as like question mark. So
> > > after i googling, i removed some file in /etc. Then OK! The
> > > Internet is
> > > started. (i did googling with smartphone).
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ LANG=C.UTF-8 ls -l
> > > total 24
> > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-down.d
> > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
> > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
> > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-up.d
> > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
> > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> > > soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > As you see above, i removed /etc/network/interfaces file. Anyway
> > > now it
> > > works everything! No problem!
> > > 
> > > Is this a bug? Or am i wrong?
> > > 
> > > Ref: 
> > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/457856/how-to-fix-debians-networkmanager-with-question-mark-even-though-network-is-wor
> > 
> > AIUI there are several network configuration tools that defer to
> > configurations that are set up in /e/n/i, which would be handled
> > by ifupdown preferentially. Generally, removing /e/n/i completely,
> > as you have, is fine. One side effect is that any entries in
> > /e/n/interfaces.d/ will also be disabled.
> > 
> > The only machine on which I keep /e/n/i and ifupdown is my travelling
> > laptop, for tethering with my phone:
> > 
> >   allow-hotplug usb0
> > 
> >   iface usb0 inet dhcp
> > 
> > BTW I don't know why you're running sid, but it's generally expected
> > that sid users would be familiar with stuff like this, particularly
> > as your question is already answered in the reference.
> 
> In frankly, i don't know interface things and network tools. Whenever I
> use the default value, just as it is. So still i don't understand your
> reply message in technically.

You have Gnome installed, which implies you configure the network with
something like NetworkManager.

You /had/ a file called /etc/network/interfaces, which implied you were
configuring the network with ifupdown.

If you try to configure the same /interface/ (which could be called
something like eth0) with both NetworkManager and ifupdown, then
NetworkManager should back off and let ifupdown do the configuring.

I can't tell you whether that makes Gnome display a question mark, but
others might know. (I don't use Gnome, NetworkManager, or ifupdown.)

When you renamed the file to /etc/network/interfaces.orig, then
ifupdown can no longer read it, nor take priority over NetworkManager,
and NetworkManager should be happy to configure the interface itself.
The question mark should go away. (Do you get a happy face displayed
instead, or is NetworkManager more boring than that?)

I would tend to think that:

. The debian-installer installs ifupdown by default when you don't
  install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,

. The debian-installer installs NetworkManager by default if you do
  install a Desktop Manager like Gnome,

. It shouldn't do both.

But, if you upgrade an ifupdown-system and add NetworkManager in
whatever way, then it's up to you to remove/hide any ifupdown
configuration that you want NetworkManager to perform. That's
probably what you did by renaming the file.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

On Tue, 2024-01-30 at 10:40 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 30/01/2024 08:21, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> > > nm-online
> > > nmcli
> > > nmcli connection
> > > nmcli device
> > > /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --print-config
> > > apt list '~i~nnetwork-manager'
> > > 
> > > E.g. the network-manager-config-connectivity-debian package sets
> > > connectivity test URI tohttp://network-test.debian.org/nm  see
> > > NetworkManager.conf(5). Is it available in your case?
> > 
> > The url, i did click. Then firefox said:
> > 
> > *NetworkManager is online*
> > 
> > And i don't know much about other items, thanks!
> 
> It is up to you if you wish to debug your issue and you are ready to 
> invest enough time into it. Just keep in mind that sid is unstable by
> its definition, so your system may be broken after upgrades and may 
> require time to repair, to recover from backups, or to reinstall 
> depending on your experience and preferences. What you have faced may
> be 
> an upstream bug or a consequence of inconsistent set of versions of 
> packages in the repository.
> 

Yes. Next time the problem arises again, i will analyze it with
patience, thank you Max!


Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[Max Nikulin]

On 30/01/2024 08:21, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:

nm-online
nmcli
nmcli connection
nmcli device
/usr/sbin/NetworkManager --print-config
apt list '~i~nnetwork-manager'

E.g. the network-manager-config-connectivity-debian package sets
connectivity test URI tohttp://network-test.debian.org/nm  see
NetworkManager.conf(5). Is it available in your case?


The url, i did click. Then firefox said:

*NetworkManager is online*

And i don't know much about other items, thanks!


It is up to you if you wish to debug your issue and you are ready to 
invest enough time into it. Just keep in mind that sid is unstable by 
its definition, so your system may be broken after upgrades and may 
require time to repair, to recover from backups, or to reinstall 
depending on your experience and preferences. What you have faced may be 
an upstream bug or a consequence of inconsistent set of versions of 
packages in the repository.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 22:17 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 29/01/2024 19:36, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> > 
> > For months ago, i did upgrade Debian 12 to Debian Sid. At that
> > time,
> > Gnome network icon was odd. That appered as like question mark.
> [...]
> > As you see above, i removed /etc/network/interfaces file. Anyway
> > now it
> > works everything! No problem!
> 
> What various tools report when you have the problem?
> 
> nm-online
> nmcli
> nmcli connection
> nmcli device
> /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --print-config
> apt list '~i~nnetwork-manager'
> 
> E.g. the network-manager-config-connectivity-debian package sets 
> connectivity test URI to http://network-test.debian.org/nm see 
> NetworkManager.conf(5). Is it available in your case?

Hellow Max!

The url, i did click. Then firefox said:

*NetworkManager is online*


And i don't know much about other items, thanks!


Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

On Mon, 2024-01-29 at 09:35 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 29 Jan 2024 at 21:36:39 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> > 
> > For months ago, i did upgrade Debian 12 to Debian Sid. At that
> > time,
> > Gnome network icon was odd. That appered as like question mark. So
> > after i googling, i removed some file in /etc. Then OK! The
> > Internet is
> > started. (i did googling with smartphone).
> > 
> > 
> >  soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ LANG=C.UTF-8 ls -l
> > total 24
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-down.d
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-up.d
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> > soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ 
> > 
> > 
> > As you see above, i removed /etc/network/interfaces file. Anyway
> > now it
> > works everything! No problem!
> > 
> > Is this a bug? Or am i wrong?
> > 
> > Ref: 
> > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/457856/how-to-fix-debians-networkmanager-with-question-mark-even-though-network-is-wor
> 
> AIUI there are several network configuration tools that defer to
> configurations that are set up in /e/n/i, which would be handled
> by ifupdown preferentially. Generally, removing /e/n/i completely,
> as you have, is fine. One side effect is that any entries in
> /e/n/interfaces.d/ will also be disabled.
> 
> The only machine on which I keep /e/n/i and ifupdown is my travelling
> laptop, for tethering with my phone:
> 
>   allow-hotplug usb0
> 
>   iface usb0 inet dhcp
> 
> BTW I don't know why you're running sid, but it's generally expected
> that sid users would be familiar with stuff like this, particularly
> as your question is already answered in the reference.
> 

Hellow David!

In frankly, i don't know interface things and network tools. Whenever I
use the default value, just as it is. So still i don't understand your
reply message in technically.

And sid. At that time, i wanted to install a new emacs (29.1). Sid was
only the way.


Anyway thanks for kind advice and reply!



Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[David Wright]

On Mon 29 Jan 2024 at 21:36:39 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> 
> For months ago, i did upgrade Debian 12 to Debian Sid. At that time,
> Gnome network icon was odd. That appered as like question mark. So
> after i googling, i removed some file in /etc. Then OK! The Internet is
> started. (i did googling with smartphone).
> 
> 
>  soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ LANG=C.UTF-8 ls -l
> total 24
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-down.d
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-up.d
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ 
> 
> 
> As you see above, i removed /etc/network/interfaces file. Anyway now it
> works everything! No problem!
> 
> Is this a bug? Or am i wrong?
> 
> Ref: 
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/457856/how-to-fix-debians-networkmanager-with-question-mark-even-though-network-is-wor

AIUI there are several network configuration tools that defer to
configurations that are set up in /e/n/i, which would be handled
by ifupdown preferentially. Generally, removing /e/n/i completely,
as you have, is fine. One side effect is that any entries in
/e/n/interfaces.d/ will also be disabled.

The only machine on which I keep /e/n/i and ifupdown is my travelling
laptop, for tethering with my phone:

  allow-hotplug usb0

  iface usb0 inet dhcp

BTW I don't know why you're running sid, but it's generally expected
that sid users would be familiar with stuff like this, particularly
as your question is already answered in the reference.

Cheers,
David.

Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

Hellow Debian hackers,

For months ago, i did upgrade Debian 12 to Debian Sid. At that time,
Gnome network icon was odd. That appered as like question mark. So
after i googling, i removed some file in /etc. Then OK! The Internet is
started. (i did googling with smartphone).


 soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ LANG=C.UTF-8 ls -l
total 24
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  7 18:51 if-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network$ 


As you see above, i removed /etc/network/interfaces file. Anyway now it
works everything! No problem!

Is this a bug? Or am i wrong?

Ref: 
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/457856/how-to-fix-debians-networkmanager-with-question-mark-even-though-network-is-wor


Sincerely, Byunghee


-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: (SOLVED) disable trackpad when mouse is connected (GNOME bug?)

[Keith Bainbridgge]

Good afternoon

Another option is to use a keyboard shortcut. My last laptop came with 
this set up using a Fn key combo (eg fn-f5)


So I'm using a key that was set to answer MSteams calls - what?

Check keyboard - shortcuts - touchpad. cinnamon gives options of 
toggle/switch on/ switch-off. I guess gnome will be similar as it was 
the basis of cinnamon


All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC + 10:00

On 26/1/24 13:53, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 25/01/2024 21:42, Max Nikulin wrote:

Try

 lsusb --verbose --tree


I have received a private reply. Please, send messages to the mailing 
list in such cases.


I intentionally combined -vt options and I find output more convenient 
than for just "lsusb -t". The "-t" option changes behavior of "-v". If 
you do not like how it is documented, please, discuss it with usbutils 
developers.

Re: (SOLVED) disable trackpad when mouse is connected (GNOME bug?)

[Max Nikulin]

On 25/01/2024 21:42, Max Nikulin wrote:

Try

     lsusb --verbose --tree


I have received a private reply. Please, send messages to the mailing 
list in such cases.


I intentionally combined -vt options and I find output more convenient 
than for just "lsusb -t". The "-t" option changes behavior of "-v". If 
you do not like how it is documented, please, discuss it with usbutils 
developers.

Re: (SOLVED) disable trackpad when mouse is connected (GNOME bug?)

[Max Nikulin]

On 25/01/2024 20:42, Henning Follmann wrote:

The issue is a usb hub. Somehow GNOME thinks this hub is a mouse.


Try

lsusb --verbose --tree

perhaps somebody plugged in a tiny receiver for a wireless mouse and 
forgot about it.

(SOLVED) disable trackpad when mouse is connected (GNOME bug?)

[Henning Follmann]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 03:30:23PM -0500, Henning Follmann wrote:
> Hello,
> for a while I am using
> 
> gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.touchpad send-events 
> 'disabled-on-external-mouse'
> 
> which really worked fine.
> 
> But since last week this does not work anymore; in the way that the
> trackpad is always disabled, even when the mouse is not connected.
> 
> I have to issue a 
> gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.touchpad send-events 'enabled'
> to get it back. That kind of defeats it's purpose though.
> 
> Any hints what could be causing this?
> 
> 

Hello,
replying to my own post.
The issue is a usb hub. Somehow GNOME thinks this hub is a mouse.

-H



-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

disable trackpad when mouse is connected (GNOME bug?)

[Henning Follmann]

Hello,
for a while I am using

gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.touchpad send-events 
'disabled-on-external-mouse'

which really worked fine.

But since last week this does not work anymore; in the way that the
trackpad is always disabled, even when the mouse is not connected.

I have to issue a 
gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.touchpad send-events 'enabled'
to get it back. That kind of defeats it's purpose though.

Any hints what could be causing this?


-H


-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: Gnome shell freezes randomly

[Franco Martelli]

On 28/11/23 at 13:24, Marlin wrote:
If anyone has any suggestions, I will be glad for them. I know this kind 
of an issue is hard to debug because I do not know how to cause it to 
freeze.


I was suffering of exactly the same system freeze, I'm on KDE desktop it 
happened after a awakening from suspend I think is related to nouveau 
driver, I fixed it restarting the window compositor (I'm using Picom) 
every time I awake the system from suspend with a shell script. Of 
course I've disabled the KDE Kwin_x11 system compositor, sorry but I 
don't know nothing about Gnome, HTH


cheers

--
Franco Martelli

Re: Gnome shell freezes randomly

[Zenaan Harkness]

I get the same thing, every now and then default gnome desktop
freezes. For me the mouse also freezes. About 20 minutes ago I
discovered when I physically disconnected my tethered mobile phone,
the desktop unfroze.

I've also achieved the unfreeze with disconnecting my laptop from the
thunderbolt docking station, then reconnecting it. This requires much
more substantial delays than just disconnecting/reconnecting the
mobile phone. The dock is obviously more complex and attaches to 2
external monitors.

I've also experienced the freeze at the login screen.

I do not know how we can further test this.

(I also get the whole desktop session die often when a video (using
mpv) ends - see other thread. For me at the moment it appears that
gnome/wayland is not yet sufficiently stable for my hardware
configuration (no gpu, just an Intel cpu, and the dock).)

On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 6:31 AM Marlin  wrote:
>
> I have been experiencing random lockups of gnome-shell ever since I did
> a new install of bookworm sometime in July. When I say lockup/freeze, I
> mean that the mouse cursor still moves on the display, but I can not
> click anything. The rest of the system is not frozen. I can ssh into it.
> Yesterday morning I found gnome frozen with the clock showing 4:21 AM. I
> could not find anything in the logs that correlated to that time, but it
> may be that I am not searching at the right spot. I was using journalctl.
>
>
>
> Below are some commands I ran while gnome was frozen.
>
> ps shows normal system usage while top shows the cpu load at 100%. Maybe
> that is just one core?
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ ps -aux | grep gnome-shell
> marlin  3289  4.8  2.9 4977044 971368 ?  Ssl  Nov24 207:00
> /usr/bin/gnome-shell
> marlin  3330  0.0  0.0 581188 17496 ?Sl   Nov24   0:00
> /usr/libexec/gnome-shell-calendar-server
> marlin  3404  0.0  0.0 2850056 28740 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00
> /usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.Shell.Notifications
> marlin  3587  0.0  0.0 2661648 27468 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00
> /usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.ScreenSaver
> marlin434729  0.0  0.0   6332  2116 pts/0S+   06:58   0:00 grep
> gnome-shell
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ top
> top - 07:01:32 up 2 days, 22:45,  2 users,  load average: 1.19, 1.24, 1.25
> Tasks: 413 total,   1 running, 412 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> %Cpu(s):  6.3 us,  1.8 sy,  0.2 ni, 91.5 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.2 si,
> 0.0 st
> MiB Mem :  31903.9 total,365.4 free,  19651.1 used,  12489.9 buff/cache
> MiB Swap:  38264.0 total,  37913.7 free,350.2 used.  12252.8 avail Mem
>
>PID USER  PR  NIVIRTRES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM
> TIME+ COMMAND
>   3289 marlin20   0 4977044 971536 107480 S 100.0   3.0
> 209:54.08 gnome-shell
>
>
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ free
>   totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache
> available
> Mem:3266958820130636  366032  14293212789816
> 12538952
> Swap:   39182332  35865638823676
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ inxi -Gaz
> Graphics:
>  Device-1: NVIDIA GK208B [GeForce GT 710] vendor: Gigabyte driver:
> nvidia v: 470.199.02 non-free:
>series: 470.xx+ status: legacy-active (EOL~2023/24) arch: Fermi 2
> code: GF119/GK208
>process: TSMC 28nm built: 2010-16 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s
> lanes: 8 link-max: gen: 2
>speed: 5 GT/s bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:128b class-ID: 0300
>  Display: x11 server: X.org v: 1.21.1.7 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.9
> compositor: gnome-shell
>v: 43.6 driver: X: loaded: nvidia unloaded:
> fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa alternate: nv
>gpu: nvidia tty: 120x30
>  API: OpenGL Message: GL data unavailable in console and glxinfo
> missing.
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ uname -a
> Linux RRE 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.55-1
> (2023-09-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
> If anyone has any suggestions, I will be glad for them. I know this kind
> of an issue is hard to debug because I do not know how to cause it to
> freeze.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Marlin
> Pennsylvania, United States

Gnome shell freezes randomly

[Marlin]

I have been experiencing random lockups of gnome-shell ever since I did 
a new install of bookworm sometime in July. When I say lockup/freeze, I 
mean that the mouse cursor still moves on the display, but I can not 
click anything. The rest of the system is not frozen. I can ssh into it.
Yesterday morning I found gnome frozen with the clock showing 4:21 AM. I 
could not find anything in the logs that correlated to that time, but it 
may be that I am not searching at the right spot. I was using journalctl.




Below are some commands I ran while gnome was frozen.

ps shows normal system usage while top shows the cpu load at 100%. Maybe 
that is just one core?


marlin@RRE:~$ ps -aux | grep gnome-shell
marlin  3289  4.8  2.9 4977044 971368 ?  Ssl  Nov24 207:00 
/usr/bin/gnome-shell
marlin  3330  0.0  0.0 581188 17496 ?Sl   Nov24   0:00 
/usr/libexec/gnome-shell-calendar-server
marlin  3404  0.0  0.0 2850056 28740 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00 
/usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.Shell.Notifications
marlin  3587  0.0  0.0 2661648 27468 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00 
/usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.ScreenSaver
marlin434729  0.0  0.0   6332  2116 pts/0S+   06:58   0:00 grep 
gnome-shell

marlin@RRE:~$

marlin@RRE:~$ top
top - 07:01:32 up 2 days, 22:45,  2 users,  load average: 1.19, 1.24, 1.25
Tasks: 413 total,   1 running, 412 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu(s):  6.3 us,  1.8 sy,  0.2 ni, 91.5 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.2 si, 
0.0 st

MiB Mem :  31903.9 total,365.4 free,  19651.1 used,  12489.9 buff/cache
MiB Swap:  38264.0 total,  37913.7 free,350.2 used.  12252.8 avail Mem

   PID USER  PR  NIVIRTRESSHR S  %CPU  %MEM TIME+ 
COMMAND
  3289 marlin20   0 4977044 971536 107480 S 100.0   3.0 
209:54.08 gnome-shell




marlin@RRE:~$ free
  totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache 
available
Mem:3266958820130636  366032  14293212789816 
12538952

Swap:   39182332  35865638823676
marlin@RRE:~$


marlin@RRE:~$ inxi -Gaz
Graphics:
 Device-1: NVIDIA GK208B [GeForce GT 710] vendor: Gigabyte driver: 
nvidia v: 470.199.02 non-free:
   series: 470.xx+ status: legacy-active (EOL~2023/24) arch: Fermi 
2 code: GF119/GK208
   process: TSMC 28nm built: 2010-16 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s 
lanes: 8 link-max: gen: 2

   speed: 5 GT/s bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:128b class-ID: 0300
 Display: x11 server: X.org v: 1.21.1.7 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.9 
compositor: gnome-shell
   v: 43.6 driver: X: loaded: nvidia unloaded: 
fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa alternate: nv

   gpu: nvidia tty: 120x30
 API: OpenGL Message: GL data unavailable in console and glxinfo 
missing.

marlin@RRE:~$

marlin@RRE:~$ uname -a
Linux RRE 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.55-1 
(2023-09-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux

marlin@RRE:~$

If anyone has any suggestions, I will be glad for them. I know this kind 
of an issue is hard to debug because I do not know how to cause it to 
freeze.


--
Regards,
Marlin
Pennsylvania, United States


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Gnome shell freezes randomly

[Marlin]

I have been experiencing random lockups of gnome-shell ever since I did 
a new install of bookworm sometime in July. When I say lockup/freeze, I 
mean that the mouse cursor still moves on the display, but I can not 
click anything. The rest of the system is not frozen. I can ssh into it.
Yesterday morning I found gnome frozen with the clock showing 4:21 AM. I 
could not find anything in the logs that correlated to that time, but it 
may be that I am not searching at the right spot. I was using journalctl.




Below are some commands I ran while gnome was frozen.

ps shows normal system usage while top shows the cpu load at 100%. Maybe 
that is just one core?


marlin@RRE:~$ ps -aux | grep gnome-shell
marlin  3289  4.8  2.9 4977044 971368 ?  Ssl  Nov24 207:00 
/usr/bin/gnome-shell
marlin  3330  0.0  0.0 581188 17496 ?Sl   Nov24   0:00 
/usr/libexec/gnome-shell-calendar-server
marlin  3404  0.0  0.0 2850056 28740 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00 
/usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.Shell.Notifications
marlin  3587  0.0  0.0 2661648 27468 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00 
/usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.ScreenSaver
marlin434729  0.0  0.0   6332  2116 pts/0S+   06:58   0:00 grep 
gnome-shell

marlin@RRE:~$

marlin@RRE:~$ top
top - 07:01:32 up 2 days, 22:45,  2 users,  load average: 1.19, 1.24, 1.25
Tasks: 413 total,   1 running, 412 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu(s):  6.3 us,  1.8 sy,  0.2 ni, 91.5 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.2 si, 
0.0 st

MiB Mem :  31903.9 total,365.4 free,  19651.1 used,  12489.9 buff/cache
MiB Swap:  38264.0 total,  37913.7 free,350.2 used.  12252.8 avail Mem

  PID USER  PR  NIVIRTRESSHR S  %CPU  %MEM 
TIME+ COMMAND
 3289 marlin20   0 4977044 971536 107480 S 100.0   3.0 
209:54.08 gnome-shell




marlin@RRE:~$ free
 totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache 
available
Mem:3266958820130636  366032  14293212789816 
12538952

Swap:   39182332  35865638823676
marlin@RRE:~$


marlin@RRE:~$ inxi -Gaz
Graphics:
Device-1: NVIDIA GK208B [GeForce GT 710] vendor: Gigabyte driver: 
nvidia v: 470.199.02 non-free:
  series: 470.xx+ status: legacy-active (EOL~2023/24) arch: Fermi 2 
code: GF119/GK208
  process: TSMC 28nm built: 2010-16 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s 
lanes: 8 link-max: gen: 2

  speed: 5 GT/s bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:128b class-ID: 0300
Display: x11 server: X.org v: 1.21.1.7 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.9 
compositor: gnome-shell
  v: 43.6 driver: X: loaded: nvidia unloaded: 
fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa alternate: nv

  gpu: nvidia tty: 120x30
API: OpenGL Message: GL data unavailable in console and glxinfo 
missing.

marlin@RRE:~$

marlin@RRE:~$ uname -a
Linux RRE 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.55-1 
(2023-09-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux

marlin@RRE:~$

If anyone has any suggestions, I will be glad for them. I know this kind 
of an issue is hard to debug because I do not know how to cause it to 
freeze.


--
Regards,
Marlin
Pennsylvania, United States


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Max Nikulin]

On 25/11/2023 10:50, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 10:28:13AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:

SDDM does read /etc/profile and ~/.profile when starting a user session:
https://sources.debian.org/src/sddm/0.20.0-1/data/scripts/Xsession/


Interesting.  I wondered whether that might be a Debian patch, since I
couldn't see mention of it in the upstream SDDM changelog.


You are right. I posted a link to a wrong file. It should be
https://sources.debian.org/src/sddm/0.20.0-1/debian/Xsession/
Perhaps added in

sddm (0.11.0-4) unstable; urgency=medium
[...]
  * Add the Xsession script. (Closes: #794419)
[...]
 -- Maximiliano Curia   Thu, 03 Sep 2015 17:23:08 +0200


I expect that GDM contains similar code reading /etc/profile and ~/.profile.
LightDM Ubuntu package (but not Debian one) has it.


Ubuntu makes a change of that nature?  That surprises me.  It seems
uncharacteristically nerdy for their mission goal of dumbing everything
down to a common denominator.  Could it be an upstream change instead,
with Ubuntu simply using a newer upstream version than Debian?


I think that patch was added when Unity was the default session and 
LightDM was the default display manager. Nowadays it is Gnome and GDM.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 10:28:13AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> SDDM does read /etc/profile and ~/.profile when starting a user session:
> https://sources.debian.org/src/sddm/0.20.0-1/data/scripts/Xsession/

Interesting.  I wondered whether that might be a Debian patch, since I
couldn't see mention of it in the upstream SDDM changelog.  But it's
in the upstream repository as well, and it seems it's been there for a
rather long time:

https://github.com/sddm/sddm/blob/develop/data/scripts/Xsession

The cute little unquoted $0 is practically mandatory -- you can't release
a shell script without massively stupid quoting bugs, right?  Ah well,
I'm sure no operating system vendor would **EVER** make a directory
with a space in its name, so it should be **just fine**, right?? :-(

> (wayland-session is a sibling file). I do not like that a part of code is
> similar, but not identical to /etc/X11/Xsession from x11-common. Ideally
> there should be no code duplication.

Well, if the ultimate goal is to have everything work consistently, then
there's gonna be code duplication.  Of course, we're nowhere near that
goal.

> I expect that GDM contains similar code reading /etc/profile and ~/.profile.
> LightDM Ubuntu package (but not Debian one) has it.

Ubuntu makes a change of that nature?  That surprises me.  It seems
uncharacteristically nerdy for their mission goal of dumbing everything
down to a common denominator.  Could it be an upstream change instead,
with Ubuntu simply using a newer upstream version than Debian?

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Max Nikulin]

On 25/11/2023 00:15, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 11:51:53PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:


On the other hand I can not say that I understand what happens with PATH.
Likely modifications made through environment.d are overwritten by
/etc/profile. The latter is called by /etc/sddm/Xsession (or
wayland-session).

/etc/profile is only read by login shells of the Bourne family, unless
something goes out of its way to read that file explicitly.  Does KDE
spawn login shells instead of regular ones?


I see no evidences that launching konsole or xterm using menu or krunner 
causes starting bash as a login shell. I added a "logger" call to 
~/.bash_profile and log entries appear during login only.


SDDM does read /etc/profile and ~/.profile when starting a user session:
https://sources.debian.org/src/sddm/0.20.0-1/data/scripts/Xsession/
(wayland-session is a sibling file). I do not like that a part of code 
is similar, but not identical to /etc/X11/Xsession from x11-common. 
Ideally there should be no code duplication.


I expect that GDM contains similar code reading /etc/profile and 
~/.profile. LightDM Ubuntu package (but not Debian one) has it.


I suspect that startplasma does a bit more and transfers environment 
variables to systemd user session. The reason is the following.


plasma X11:

echo $PATH
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/added-by-etc-profile-d
systemctl --user show-environment | grep '^PATH'
PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/added-by-etc-profile-d

fluxbox

echo $PATH
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/added-by-etc-profile-d
systemctl --user show-environment | grep '^PATH'
PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/added-by-user-config-environment-d

Notice that a component from ~/.config/evironment.d appears only in 
systemd and only in the case of fluxbox.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 11:51:53PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> I guess you are not running Gnome.

I'm using fvwm.

> A window manager still might do some magic by calling "systemctl
> set-environment". My impression is that nowadays an application spawned by
> systemd is not something unusual.

The world is definitely changing, and user sessions are becoming more
diverse and more complex.  I certainly don't understand all of the
cases in use today.

> I experimented a bit with KDE and SDDM (I do not have a Gnome VM ready for
> tests). Terminal applications (konsole, xterm) are started as children of
> systemd user session, not startplasma that is spawned by the display
> manager. So /etc/environment.d and ~/.config/environment.d *affect*
> environment of shell in terminal applications.

Well, that's new to me, and very interesting.  I can't say whether it's
a good or bad change, but it's good to know about it.

> On the other hand I can not say that I understand what happens with PATH.
> Likely modifications made through environment.d are overwritten by
> /etc/profile. The latter is called by /etc/sddm/Xsession (or
> wayland-session).

/etc/profile is only read by login shells of the Bourne family, unless
something goes out of its way to read that file explicitly.  Does KDE
spawn login shells instead of regular ones?

> I am puzzled why neither environment.d nor /etc/profile works in the case of
> the topic starter. I suspect a typo somewhere. I am unsure if various bugs
> like https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6414 are relevant.

My reading was that /etc/profile *would* work for them, if they
reconfigured their desktop environment to launch login shells instead
of regular shells, but that isn't what they want to do.

They also pointed out that /etc/bash.bashrc or ~/.bashrc would work,
but only for bash, whereas they were looking for something independent of
the user's shell.

> Just a reminder: BASH does not read ~/.profile if ~/.bash_login or
> ~/.bash_profile exists.

And none of them are read by regular shells.  Those read ~/.bashrc instead.

> You post is great in respect to details concerning current state of affairs.
> I tried to ask if you see a way to make configuration easier for users. E.g.
> /etc/profile is suitable when a shell is involved. It was fine decades ago,
> but display managers may start sessions bypassing shells. Perhaps
> environment.d may be sourced by shells in the case of console login and
> xinit. I still hope that it is possible to create a single point for
> environment configuration and to provide helper tools for various ways to
> login.

The way everything is diversifying right now, it appears that the
situation is going to become more complicated, not simpler, in the next
few years/decades.

If *simple* and *consistent* user configuration across session types
and shells is a goal that any of the desktop environment authors care
about, they need to talk to each other and come up with *one* scheme
that they can all agree on, and implement that.

I've yet to see any evidence that this is a priority for them.

Even if they do come up with one scheme and implement it, we'll still
have legacy environments (like fvwm and fluxbox, presumably) that won't
use it.  And of course direct login shells (console, ssh) will remain
separate entities.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Max Nikulin]

On 24/11/2023 00:20, Greg Wooledge wrote:

For me, all of the environment.d(5) stuff goes into the systemd --user
service manager which spawns... nothing that's visible to me.  Nothing
at all.

All of my visible applications (terminals, web browsers, etc.) are
spawned by my window manager, which is spawned by my X session, which
is spawned by startx, which is spawned by my console login shell, when
I type the "startx" command.


I guess you are not running Gnome. I am not surprised that environment.d 
and /etc/profile and other shell settings are almost not connected in 
your case. A window manager still might do some magic by calling 
"systemctl set-environment". My impression is that nowadays an 
application spawned by systemd is not something unusual.

- emacs.service (optional)
- Gtk and Qt application may activate various D-Bus services ("busctl 
--user" to get list of ones ready to start)
- MIME type or URI scheme handlers advertised through .desktop files may 
be invoked by GUI applications through D-Bus: "grep DBusActivatable 
/usr/share/applications/*.desktop" see

https://specifications.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s06.html#key-dbusactivatable

Certainly for particular set of application there may be almost no 
systemd services. Alternatives may be available, e.g. XDG autostart is 
implemented in KDE and Gnome using systemd user session, but other 
window managers may invoke them directly.


Due to these reasons I would not neglect environment.d completely.

I experimented a bit with KDE and SDDM (I do not have a Gnome VM ready 
for tests). Terminal applications (konsole, xterm) are started as 
children of systemd user session, not startplasma that is spawned by the 
display manager. So /etc/environment.d and ~/.config/environment.d 
*affect* environment of shell in terminal applications.


On the other hand I can not say that I understand what happens with 
PATH. Likely modifications made through environment.d are overwritten by 
/etc/profile. The latter is called by /etc/sddm/Xsession (or 
wayland-session).


Another observation is that /etc/profile settings (besides PATH!) do not 
affect "systemctl --user show-environment", but the same settings are 
present in children processes of systemd obtained using


tr '\0' '\n' Fluxbox session has both trees: systemd and window manager. 
environment.d does not affect terminals launched by fluxbox. 
(fbautostart was not installed.)


I am puzzled why neither environment.d nor /etc/profile works in the 
case of the topic starter. I suspect a typo somewhere. I am unsure if 
various bugs like https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6414 are 
relevant.


Just a reminder: BASH does not read ~/.profile if ~/.bash_login or 
~/.bash_profile exists.



Greg, do you have ideas how to relieve pain with environment configuration?
E.g. to not override pam_environment by PATH hardcoded in /etc/profile, to
negotiate what files display managers should read, etc.


Didn't I just post a long message about this?


You post is great in respect to details concerning current state of 
affairs. I tried to ask if you see a way to make configuration easier 
for users. E.g. /etc/profile is suitable when a shell is involved. It 
was fine decades ago, but display managers may start sessions bypassing 
shells. Perhaps environment.d may be sourced by shells in the case of 
console login and xinit. I still hope that it is possible to create a 
single point for environment configuration and to provide helper tools 
for various ways to login.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[gene heskett]

On 11/23/23 09:18, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 05:43:18AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

I'm user 1000 and have had the expected results by putting a modified path
in my .profile but it is not automatic, I have to . .profile for every
terminal I start. I have 2 non-stock dirs in my /home/me path, bin and
AppImages, and I put them ahead of the rest of the default path. Now if
someone would tell me how to make that automatic I'd be delighted.


There's nothing that will work in *all* setups.  You have to do what
works for *your* setup.

Last I heard, you use a third-party desktop environment (Trinity or
something like that), and from your context above it looks like you use a
GUI Display Manager to login.  I also believe you're using an X session
(not Wayland) and I'm guessing that your DE is normal, not GNOME-like,
in its terminal spawning.

For this setup, I'd go with the ~/.xsessionrc file.  Create the
file /home/gene/.xsessionrc and put this in it:

 PATH=$HOME/bin:$HOME/AppImages:$PATH
 GENETEST=hello
 export PATH GENETEST

Then on your next login, see whether you have the correct PATH, and
whether you have the GENETEST variable in your environment (this is just a
debugging aid, to be sure the file was used).  If all works as expected,
you can get rid of the GENETEST variable later.  It shouldn't hurt
anything, just uses a few extra bytes of memory, so it's a low priority.

If you don't get the GENETEST variable in any program's environment,
then your OS isn't Debian enough (or your DE clears it out, or your
terminals are spawned in a GNOME-like manner...), and you'll have to
find a different solution.


Got it, thanks Greg


.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 10:52:25PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 23/11/2023 21:02, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > Usually, creating ~/.xsessionrc (on Debian only, as it's specific to
> > Debian) will suffice for this, as it gets read in by the X session
> > before it spawns your window manager, and then the WM spawns everything
> > else, all with your desired environment.  (Again, assuming X, not Wayland.)
> 
> I would verify that changes are reflected in
> 
> systemctl --user show-environment
> 
> output. XDG autostart instances, applications activated through D-Bus may be
> spawned by systemd user session, not X session & window manager.

Well, the important thing here is knowing what's spawned by whom, in
your particular setup.

In a traditional window manager setup like I use, *nothing* is spawned
by dbus or by the systemd --user manager.  (Well, maybe not nothing.
Maybe pulseaudio or whatever does audio now?  I have no idea how that
stuff works.  I just login, check whether audio works, and if it does,
I *do not touch it*.)

If you've got things that are actually spawned by systemd --user, then
this may be relevant for you.  For me, it's not.  Nothing that I put
in any of the files mentioned in environment.d(5) has EVER become
part of my environment upon login.  I've been down all of these roads
before, you see.

For me, all of the environment.d(5) stuff goes into the systemd --user
service manager which spawns... nothing that's visible to me.  Nothing
at all.

All of my visible applications (terminals, web browsers, etc.) are
spawned by my window manager, which is spawned by my X session, which
is spawned by startx, which is spawned by my console login shell, when
I type the "startx" command.

So, for *me*, configuring the environment in my login shell's dot files
works.

> Greg, do you have ideas how to relieve pain with environment configuration?
> E.g. to not override pam_environment by PATH hardcoded in /etc/profile, to
> negotiate what files display managers should read, etc.

Didn't I just post a long message about this?

People have been searching for this holy grail for DECADES.  It does not
exist.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Max Nikulin]

On 23/11/2023 21:02, Greg Wooledge wrote:

Usually, creating ~/.xsessionrc (on Debian only, as it's specific to
Debian) will suffice for this, as it gets read in by the X session
before it spawns your window manager, and then the WM spawns everything
else, all with your desired environment.  (Again, assuming X, not Wayland.)


I would verify that changes are reflected in

systemctl --user show-environment

output. XDG autostart instances, applications activated through D-Bus 
may be spawned by systemd user session, not X session & window manager.


Greg, do you have ideas how to relieve pain with environment 
configuration? E.g. to not override pam_environment by PATH hardcoded in 
/etc/profile, to negotiate what files display managers should read, etc.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Max Nikulin]

On 23/11/2023 21:16, Greg Wooledge wrote:

For this setup, I'd go with the ~/.xsessionrc file.  Create the
file/home/gene/.xsessionrc and put this in it:

 PATH=$HOME/bin:$HOME/AppImages:$PATH


SDDM (default for KDE and I assume it is Gene's case) reads ~/.profile 
that contains the following


 >8 
# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d "$HOME/bin" ] ; then
PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH"
fi

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d "$HOME/.local/bin" ] ; then
PATH="$HOME/.local/bin:$PATH"
fi
 8< 

so perhaps it is enough to add similar blocks for other custom 
directories. In Ubuntu LightDM reads this file as well, but in Debian it 
is not so by default.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 05:43:18AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> I'm user 1000 and have had the expected results by putting a modified path
> in my .profile but it is not automatic, I have to . .profile for every
> terminal I start. I have 2 non-stock dirs in my /home/me path, bin and
> AppImages, and I put them ahead of the rest of the default path. Now if
> someone would tell me how to make that automatic I'd be delighted.

There's nothing that will work in *all* setups.  You have to do what
works for *your* setup.

Last I heard, you use a third-party desktop environment (Trinity or
something like that), and from your context above it looks like you use a
GUI Display Manager to login.  I also believe you're using an X session
(not Wayland) and I'm guessing that your DE is normal, not GNOME-like,
in its terminal spawning.

For this setup, I'd go with the ~/.xsessionrc file.  Create the
file /home/gene/.xsessionrc and put this in it:

PATH=$HOME/bin:$HOME/AppImages:$PATH
GENETEST=hello
export PATH GENETEST

Then on your next login, see whether you have the correct PATH, and
whether you have the GENETEST variable in your environment (this is just a
debugging aid, to be sure the file was used).  If all works as expected,
you can get rid of the GENETEST variable later.  It shouldn't hurt
anything, just uses a few extra bytes of memory, so it's a low priority.

If you don't get the GENETEST variable in any program's environment,
then your OS isn't Debian enough (or your DE clears it out, or your
terminals are spawned in a GNOME-like manner...), and you'll have to
find a different solution.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Greg Wooledge]

NOTE: the original Subject: header of this thread includes the keyword
"GNOME" which does not appear in the body of the original message, but
which is *terribly* important here.  See below.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 09:49:13AM +, Bernhard Walle wrote:
> I want to add some directory to $PATH for each user. In the past, I added a
> file /etc/profile.d/path.sh, but that doesn't work any more, only when I
> manually start bash as login shell (or modify the setting of
> gnome-terminal).

OK, good.  You already understand the basics, so we don't need to explain
those in detail.

> My next attempt was to use systemd's /etc/environment.d/path.conf
> 
> PATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin
> XPATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin
> 
> but that doesn't work either. While XPATH appears, PATH is still the
> default.
> 
> systemctl show-environment --user

"systemctl --user" does not show you the environment that a login
session uses.  It only shows you the environment that the "per-user
service manager" uses when it starts --user units.

Systemd actually has nothing to do with login session configuration
at all.  It's a gigantic dead end.

> To be honest, I'm quite confused where that default path is defined. Even
> when I modify /etc/login.defs (ENV_PATH) or /etc/profile, I still get the
> default value.

/etc/login.defs only works with the login(1) program, which is for the
console.  Even then, the value of PATH set by login(1) can and will be
overridden by other programs before you finally get a shell prompt.
Among those overrides are PAM (see pam_env(7)) and your shell (as you
already knew, since you mentioned /etc/profile).

As such, ENV_PATH in /etc/login.defs is pretty much useless.  It's never
going to survive to see the light of day, even on a console login.  And
it's not used at all by Display Manager (GUI) logins.

Even pam_env ends up being useless for PATH, as the shell overrides it.
It might be useful to set *other* variables, but it's extremely limited.
You can set MYVAR=/some/absolute/path but you *cannot* for example set
MAIL=$HOME/Maildir/ because it will not expand $HOME for you.  It's
just so frustatingly inept that you ultimately end up forgetting about
it (but not until you've wasted hours trying to get it to work).

> Of course I can edit my own ~/.bashrc or /etc/bashrc, but that's not what I
> want since then only bash gets the PATH environment, not other shells or
> other programs.

The sad news is that there IS no holy grail here.  I've searched for it
myself, as have many other people.  It just *does not* exist.

There is no single point of configuration that can customize all user
login sessions, across all login methods, all shells, all desktop
environments, etc.

What ends up happening in practice is that you have to identify *all*
of the configuration points for all of the login methods and shells
that you care about.  For console logins with Bourne-family shells,
you can customize a default PATH in /etc/profile (or one of the files
that it dots in).  For console logins with csh-family shells, you can
use /etc/csh.login.  For Debian X sessions, there is no recommended
global access point, but you can create a ~/.xsessionrc file in your
home directory.  I don't know how you do it with Wayland.  Nobody who
uses Wayland has ever cared enough to figure it out and publically
announce how to do it (or at least, not here).

Now, I mentioned GNOME at the top of this reply, because GNOME was in the
Subject: header.  This is important because GNOME adds one additional
wrinkle to this problem.  In a normal X session, there is a single
parent process from which all the other X client processes are spawned.
Getting the correct environment into that parent process is sufficient
to have it propagated into every program that gets launched thereafter.
Usually, creating ~/.xsessionrc (on Debian only, as it's specific to
Debian) will suffice for this, as it gets read in by the X session
before it spawns your window manager, and then the WM spawns everything
else, all with your desired environment.  (Again, assuming X, not Wayland.)

Not so with GNOME.  In GNOME, all gnome-terminal processes are spawned
by dbus, instead of by the user's X/Wayland session.  Therefore,
gnome-terminal and the shell inside it derive from a completely
different ancestry, and come up with a completely different environment.
(And don't even ask me how to configure dbus's environment.  I have no
idea.)

So, *specifically* for GNOME, what you end up doing in practice is
precisely the thing you didn't want to do: customizing ~/.bashrc or
~/.cshrc or whatever shell-equivalent RC file, to establish the desired
environment in the shell itself, bypassing whatever crap dbus gives you.

Re: Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[gene heskett]

On 11/23/23 05:06, Bernhard Walle wrote:

Hello,

I want to add some directory to $PATH for each user. In the past, I 
added a file /etc/profile.d/path.sh, but that doesn't work any more, 
only when I manually start bash as login shell (or modify the setting of 
gnome-terminal).


My next attempt was to use systemd's /etc/environment.d/path.conf

     PATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin
     XPATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin

but that doesn't work either. While XPATH appears, PATH is still the 
default.


     systemctl show-environment --user

     PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games
NCP_PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/ncp/clnt/bin:/opt/ncp/clnt/bin

To be honest, I'm quite confused where that default path is defined. 
Even when I modify /etc/login.defs (ENV_PATH) or /etc/profile, I still 
get the default value.


Of course I can edit my own ~/.bashrc or /etc/bashrc, but that's not 
what I want since then only bash gets the PATH environment, not other 
shells or other programs.


Can somebody help me, please? Thanks a lot.


Kind regards,
Bernhard


I'm user 1000 and have had the expected results by putting a modified 
path in my .profile but it is not automatic, I have to . .profile for 
every terminal I start. I have 2 non-stock dirs in my /home/me path, bin 
and AppImages, and I put them ahead of the rest of the default path. Now 
if someone would tell me how to make that automatic I'd be delighted.




.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Bernhard Walle]

Hello,

I want to add some directory to $PATH for each user. In the past, I 
added a file /etc/profile.d/path.sh, but that doesn't work any more, 
only when I manually start bash as login shell (or modify the setting of 
gnome-terminal).


My next attempt was to use systemd's /etc/environment.d/path.conf

PATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin
XPATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin

but that doesn't work either. While XPATH appears, PATH is still the 
default.


systemctl show-environment --user

PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games

NCP_PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/ncp/clnt/bin:/opt/ncp/clnt/bin

To be honest, I'm quite confused where that default path is defined. 
Even when I modify /etc/login.defs (ENV_PATH) or /etc/profile, I still 
get the default value.


Of course I can edit my own ~/.bashrc or /etc/bashrc, but that's not 
what I want since then only bash gets the PATH environment, not other 
shells or other programs.


Can somebody help me, please? Thanks a lot.


Kind regards,
Bernhard

Modify user PATH in GNOME in Debian 12

[Bernhard Walle]

Hello,

I want to add some directory to $PATH for each user. In the past, I 
added a file /etc/profile.d/path.sh, but that doesn't work any more, 
only when I manually start bash as login shell (or modify the setting of 
gnome-terminal).


My next attempt was to use systemd's /etc/environment.d/path.conf

PATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin
XPATH=${PATH}:/opt/vendor/product/bin

but that doesn't work either. While XPATH appears, PATH is still the 
default.


systemctl show-environment --user

PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games

NCP_PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/ncp/clnt/bin:/opt/ncp/clnt/bin


To be honest, I'm quite confused where that default path is defined. 
Even when I modify /etc/login.defs (ENV_PATH) or /etc/profile, I still 
get the default value.


Of course I can edit my own ~/.bashrc or /etc/bashrc, but that's not 
what I want since then only bash gets the PATH environment, not other 
shells or other programs.


Can somebody help me, please? Thanks a lot.


Kind regards,
Bernhard

Re: Cliente IRC para Gnome (Moderno y Completo)

[Mario Gianelli]

El 31/10/23 a las 6:00 a. m., Jose Luis Alarcon Sanchez escribió:

Buenos días.

¿Tendríais la amabilidad de sugerirme un top de los mejores clientes
para IRC existentes para el escritorio Gnome?. No vale contestar ircII y
similares. Se trata de sustituir a Konversation, lo cual son Palabras Mayores.

Muchísimas gracias por anticipado.

Saludos.
Jose Luis.

--
https://lordofunix.org/

Usuario GNU/Hurd no registrado.
Usuario BSD registrado 51101.
Usuario Linux registrado #213309.
Una vez más cabalgaré con mis caballeros,
para defender lo que fue.
y el sueño de lo que pudo ser.


Yo uso KVirc, me recuerdo mucho al antiguo mIRC pors su capacidad de 
modificarlo con scripting.

--
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╗ ║██╔══██╗██╔══██╗██║██╔═══██╗
██╔╔██║███║██╔╝██║██║   ██║
██║╚██╔╝██║██╔══██║██╔══██╗██║██║   ██║
██║ ╚═╝ ██║██║  ██║██║  ██║██║╚██╔╝
╚═╝ ╚═╝╚═╝  ╚═╝╚═╝  ╚═╝╚═╝ ╚═╝
--

Debian 12 Gnome - No notification for available updates

[Yvan Masson]

Hi Debian users,

I have a computer running Gnome 43.6 that does not show notification 
when updates are available. It was working a few months ago, but can not 
tell when it stops working.


Questions:
- How can I bring back available update notifications?
- Do you think it deserves a bug report on Debian bugtracker or upstream?

Some details:

- The computer was installed with Debian 11 and manually upgraded to 
Debian 12, and currently runs Gnome Software 43.5-1~deb12u1.
- I confirm that /usr/bin/gnome-software --gapplication-service is 
started automatically when I open a session, which in turn runs 
PacakeKit to get update information (as seen with pkmon).

- apt list --upgradable lists many available updates.
- I do not use a metered connection.
- I do not have any fancy settings in dconf (I only disable automatic 
download):


$ dconf dump /org/gnome/software/
[/]
check-timestamp=int64 1691236134 => Sat Aug  5 13:48:54 CEST 2023
download-updates=false
first-run=false
install-timestamp=int64 1661718901 => Sun Aug 28 22:35:01 CEST 2022
online-updates-timestamp=int64 1675285379 => Wed Feb  1 22:02:59 CET 2023
update-notification-timestamp=int64 1698304770 => Thu Oct 26 09:19:30 
CEST 2023


- When I start Gnome Software, it displays the number of updates on the top.
- Notifications are enabled:

$ dconf dump 
/org/gnome/desktop/notifications/application/org-gnome-software/

[/]
application-id='org.gnome.Software.desktop'
enable=true

- I have just created a new user on the machine, member of the sudo 
group, but it does not get any notification either (but updates are 
automatically downloaded)


Regards,
Yvan


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Cliente IRC para Gnome (Moderno y Completo)

[Juan carlos Rebate]

Hexchat está muy bien, tiene botones para comandos normales como whois ping
separa las salas y los privados de forma coherente, se le pueden poner
alertas

El mar., 31 oct. 2023 17:14, N4ch0  escribió:

> On Tue Oct 31, 2023 at 5:55 AM -03, Jose Luis Alarcon Sanchez wrote:
>
> > Buenos días.
> >
> > ¿Tendríais la amabilidad de sugerirme un top de los mejores clientes
> > para IRC existentes para el escritorio Gnome?. No vale contestar ircII y
> > similares. Se trata de sustituir a Konversation, lo cual son Palabras
> Mayores.
> >
> > Muchísimas gracias por anticipado.
> >
>
> hola! prueba quassel, creo que sería lo más alineado a lo que usabas.
>
> Saludos!
>
>

Re: Cliente IRC para Gnome (Moderno y Completo)

[N4ch0]

On Tue Oct 31, 2023 at 12:27 PM -03, Jose Luis Alarcon Sanchez wrote:
> On oct. 31 2023, at 3:44 pm, Camaleón  wrote:
>
> > El 2023-10-31 a las 09:55 +0100, Jose Luis Alarcon Sanchez escribió:
> >  
> >> ¿Tendríais la amabilidad de sugerirme un top de los mejores clientes
> >> para IRC existentes para el escritorio Gnome?. No vale contestar
> >> ircII y
> >> similares. Se trata de sustituir a Konversation, lo cual son Palabras 
> >> Mayores.
> >  
> > No uso ese tipo de programas, pero por si te sirve para buscar  
> > alternativas y ver las capacidades de los clientes, en Wikipedia
> > tienes  
> > una tabla muy útil:
> >  
> > Comparison of Internet Relay Chat clients
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_clients
> >  
> > Y cómo no, la wiki de Archlinux también es muy completa:
> >  
> > https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/List_of_applications/Internet#Instant_messaging_clients
> >  
> > Thunderbird integra un cliente IRC, pero si buscas una aplicación  
> > independiente no es la mejor opción, evidentemente.
> >  
> > Saludos,
> >  
> > --  
> > Camaleón  
> >  
>
>
> Buenas Tardes.
>
> Me decanté por Quassel, como sugirió N4ch0. Me está gustando la
> experiencia de usarlo.
>
> Gracias a N4ch0 y Camaleón.
>

Te diría irsii, pero está más que alejado de lo que buscas.

Saludos

Re: Cliente IRC para Gnome (Moderno y Completo)

[Jose Luis Alarcon Sanchez]

On oct. 31 2023, at 3:44 pm, Camaleón  wrote:

> El 2023-10-31 a las 09:55 +0100, Jose Luis Alarcon Sanchez escribió:
>  
>> ¿Tendríais la amabilidad de sugerirme un top de los mejores clientes
>> para IRC existentes para el escritorio Gnome?. No vale contestar
>> ircII y
>> similares. Se trata de sustituir a Konversation, lo cual son Palabras 
>> Mayores.
>  
> No uso ese tipo de programas, pero por si te sirve para buscar  
> alternativas y ver las capacidades de los clientes, en Wikipedia
> tienes  
> una tabla muy útil:
>  
> Comparison of Internet Relay Chat clients
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_clients
>  
> Y cómo no, la wiki de Archlinux también es muy completa:
>  
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/List_of_applications/Internet#Instant_messaging_clients
>  
> Thunderbird integra un cliente IRC, pero si buscas una aplicación  
> independiente no es la mejor opción, evidentemente.
>  
> Saludos,
>  
> --  
> Camaleón  
>  


Buenas Tardes.

Me decanté por Quassel, como sugirió N4ch0. Me está gustando la
experiencia de usarlo.

Gracias a N4ch0 y Camaleón.

Saludos.
Jose Luis.

--
https://lordofunix.org/

Usuario GNU/Hurd no registrado.
Usuario BSD registrado 51101.
Usuario Linux registrado #213309.
Una vez más cabalgaré con mis caballeros,
para defender lo que fue.
y el sueño de lo que pudo ser.