[Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner
Anyone know how to read the settings of the K3 internal ATU after a tune cycle. I want to compare to my KAT500. TNX 73 Fred, WY2E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner
It’s described in the KAT3 menu entry on page 56 of the K3 Owner’s Manual. You can set L, C, and Cs / Ct, and you can read the values the ATU has currently, for example right after it has completed tuning. 73 de Dick, K6KR On Jan 7, 2014, at 12:14 PM, WY2E w...@arrl.net wrote: Anyone know how to read the settings of the K3 internal ATU after a tune cycle. I want to compare to my KAT500. TNX 73 Fred, WY2E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner
Hi Fred Reading the L and C ATU Values 1. Select LC SEt in the CONFIG menu. 2. Tap MENU to exit. 3. Tap ATU TUNE; VFO A shows the capacitance (CA indicates the capacitance on the antenna side, Ct on the transmitter side). VFO B shows the inductance. 4. Tap MENU to exit. Manually Setting L and C Values 1. Select LC SEt in the CONFIG menu. 2. Tap MENU to exit. 3. Tap ATU TUNE; VFO A shows the capacitance (CA indicates the capacitance on the antenna side, Ct on the transmitter side). VFO B shows the inductance. 4. Tune VFO A to change the capacitance; VFO B to change the inductance. Tap ANT to toggle between CA and Ct. 5. Tapping CLR clears the stored LC data for the present band. Fred Cady KE7X The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the Summit www.ke7x.com or www.lulu.com (Coming soon: The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station) -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft- boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of WY2E Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 1:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Anyone know how to read the settings of the K3 internal ATU after a tune cycle. I want to compare to my KAT500. TNX 73 Fred, WY2E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Internal tuner
I'm thinking of purchasing the K3 with internal tuner and the general coverage front end, my question is will the tuner tune on receive outside of the ham bands. It would be nice to tune a long wire for Short Wave listening. Thanks, Phil ZL1PB. -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Internal-tuner-tp7565603.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal tuner
On 11/13/2012 5:45 PM, Phil wrote: I'm thinking of purchasing the K3 with internal tuner and the general coverage front end, my question is will the tuner tune on receive outside of the ham bands. It would be nice to tune a long wire for Short Wave listening. Thanks, Phil ZL1PB. Automatically, I don't think so. You have to feed the KAT3 [and all autotuners] power to get them to tune and the K3 won't transmit outside the ham bands. I think you can go in and fiddle with the L/C manually, I don't know how, never done it. The gen coverage filter set works really well way outside of the ham bands. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal tuner
You can tune the ATU manually on received signals or noise but I'm pretty sure the settings will not be remembered if you subsequently hit auto tune in an adjacent ham band. Actually, there are no separate SWBC bands in the K3 scheme: these are just extended sections of the ham bands (the 31m SWBC band is part of 30m; 19m is part of 20m, etc.). Basically, it is probably not worth the effort. SWBC reception is about as good as you will ever need without having to match the antenna. 73, Drew AF2Z On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:45:10 -0800 (PST), you wrote: I'm thinking of purchasing the K3 with internal tuner and the general coverage front end, my question is will the tuner tune on receive outside of the ham bands. It would be nice to tune a long wire for Short Wave listening. Thanks, Phil ZL1PB. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal tuner
You can use a manual tuner with an antenna analyser. The low power of the analyser stays under the power limit for outside the ham bands and lets you read SWR on the SWL frequency. I don't know if you can manually tune the internal tuner, but if you can, it will probably remember the solution the next time you switch to that frequency. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 11/14/12 at 10:09 AM, k6...@foothill.net (Fred Jensen) wrote: On 11/13/2012 5:45 PM, Phil wrote: I'm thinking of purchasing the K3 with internal tuner and the general coverage front end, my question is will the tuner tune on receive outside of the ham bands. It would be nice to tune a long wire for Short Wave listening. Thanks, Phil ZL1PB. Automatically, I don't think so. You have to feed the KAT3 [and all autotuners] power to get them to tune and the K3 won't transmit outside the ham bands. I think you can go in and fiddle with the L/C manually, I don't know how, never done it. The gen coverage filter set works really well way outside of the ham bands. --- Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal tuner
The manual ATU settings (called LCSEt in the KAT3 config menu) will not be remembered if you subsequently switch the KAT3 to Auto and hit ATU TUNE anywhere in the band. When you return to LCSEt the prevoius manual settings will be gone. In the case of SWL bands, since they are just extensions of the ham bands in the K3's band mapping scheme you cannot expect a manual setting on the 19m SWBC band, for example, to remain if you subsequently use the KAT3 in auto mode somewhere else on 20 meters. Also, the manual settings are not remembered on a segment-by-segment basis as the Auto settings are. For example, if you set the ATU manually at the bottom of 160m that setting will apply at the top end and everywhere in between. There is only one manual setting for the entire band. It would be nice (but I suspect not widely requested) that the manual ATU settings would be remembered segment-by-segment as the Auto settings are, and that they would also survive an ATU TUNE in auto mode. For myself, I have found the manual settings useful on 160m where the KAT3 does not reach an optimum solution with my poor antenna. I can do better setting it manually. To set the ATU manually: Choose Config: KAT3 Turn VFOA until you see LCSEt Then push ATU TUNE. It will not transmit but will display the C and L values. You can then change them with the VFO knobs. You can toggle C between the antenna side and the tuner side by hitting ANT. You can also use the above to see what solution the auto tuner has arrived at. FWIW, a couple of feature requests that I thought might be nice to have: - K3 Utility option to display all of the currently stored antenna settings. - A firmware option to tune on received noise. 73, Drew AF2Z On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:16:09 -0800, Bill, AE6JV wrote: You can use a manual tuner with an antenna analyser. The low power of the analyser stays under the power limit for outside the ham bands and lets you read SWR on the SWL frequency. I don't know if you can manually tune the internal tuner, but if you can, it will probably remember the solution the next time you switch to that frequency. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 11/14/12 at 10:09 AM, k6...@foothill.net (Fred Jensen) wrote: On 11/13/2012 5:45 PM, Phil wrote: I'm thinking of purchasing the K3 with internal tuner and the general coverage front end, my question is will the tuner tune on receive outside of the ham bands. It would be nice to tune a long wire for Short Wave listening. Thanks, Phil ZL1PB. Automatically, I don't think so. You have to feed the KAT3 [and all autotuners] power to get them to tune and the K3 won't transmit outside the ham bands. I think you can go in and fiddle with the L/C manually, I don't know how, never done it. The gen coverage filter set works really well way outside of the ham bands. --- Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Well here's one for you: My setup is K3 to wattmeter to dummy load. The K3 says 100w If the external wattmeter is: MFJ 949E tuner/SWR meter (tuner out of circuit) it says 100w cheapo Radio Shack SWR meter 100w LP 100A digital wattmeter says 70 watts Elecraft W2 says 70 watts Yes, I have run the transmitter calibration routine in the K3 Utility program. SWR in all three cases is nominal 1:1 The result is the same to a real antenna although the SWR is not 1:1 What could be causing the external-sensor type wattmeters to read low? Buck k4ia K3 # 101 On 1/2/2012 10:14 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Quite right. There a couple of impedance transformations that occur between the collectors (or plates) of the power amplifiers and the antenna. The first is done by the output filters. In modern rigs, they are fixed tuned and designed in common Ham rigs to convert the impedance at the collectors to 50 ohms, resistive. If your antenna presents that impedance, no further conversion is necessary. But many antennas don't. In the old days the output network was adjustable and we simply did the necessary adjustments and all was good. Nowadays, with fixed tuned amplifier output networks, we need another matching network to handle the conversion when the antenna doesn't present a 50 ohms resistive load. Enter the antenna tuner that converts what the antenna shows to the 50 ohms needed by the output filter. The built in SWR meter displays the SWR on the link between the tuner and the output filter. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tom Azlin N4ZPT Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:19 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question Thanks Matthew. I should not have spoken like that. Should just have said the meter in the line would not change just because a radio tuner transformed impedance to make the radio happy. 73, tom n4zpt On 1/2/2012 9:11 PM, Matthew Pitts wrote: Tom, All an antenna tuner does is show the radio the load it expects; the SWR will still be high at the output of the tuner, and an SWR meter in the coax at that output will show it as it actually is at that point, not as it is on the input of the tuner/output of the radio. Matthew Pitts N8OHU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Buck, You are like the man with 2 (or more) watches who never knew what time it was! Was your LP-100A calibrated to NIST traceable standards (Larry's calibration tools)? If the answer is yes, I would use the LP-100A as the standard to calibrate the K3 wattmeter (see instructions in the manual). After having calibrated the internal wattmeter in the K3, then run the TX gain calibration with K3 Utility. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/3/2012 8:50 AM, Buck k4ia wrote: Well here's one for you: My setup is K3 to wattmeter to dummy load. The K3 says 100w If the external wattmeter is: MFJ 949E tuner/SWR meter (tuner out of circuit) it says 100w cheapo Radio Shack SWR meter 100w LP 100A digital wattmeter says 70 watts Elecraft W2 says 70 watts Yes, I have run the transmitter calibration routine in the K3 Utility program. SWR in all three cases is nominal 1:1 The result is the same to a real antenna although the SWR is not 1:1 What could be causing the external-sensor type wattmeters to read low? Buck k4ia K3 # 101 On 1/2/2012 10:14 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Quite right. There a couple of impedance transformations that occur between the collectors (or plates) of the power amplifiers and the antenna. The first is done by the output filters. In modern rigs, they are fixed tuned and designed in common Ham rigs to convert the impedance at the collectors to 50 ohms, resistive. If your antenna presents that impedance, no further conversion is necessary. But many antennas don't. In the old days the output network was adjustable and we simply did the necessary adjustments and all was good. Nowadays, with fixed tuned amplifier output networks, we need another matching network to handle the conversion when the antenna doesn't present a 50 ohms resistive load. Enter the antenna tuner that converts what the antenna shows to the 50 ohms needed by the output filter. The built in SWR meter displays the SWR on the link between the tuner and the output filter. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tom Azlin N4ZPT Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:19 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question Thanks Matthew. I should not have spoken like that. Should just have said the meter in the line would not change just because a radio tuner transformed impedance to make the radio happy. 73, tom n4zpt On 1/2/2012 9:11 PM, Matthew Pitts wrote: Tom, All an antenna tuner does is show the radio the load it expects; the SWR will still be high at the output of the tuner, and an SWR meter in the coax at that output will show it as it actually is at that point, not as it is on the input of the tuner/output of the radio. Matthew Pitts N8OHU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
John, I'm not being flippant. Please pick up a copy of Reflections III by Walt Maxwell W2DU, published by CQ Comuunications. The book covers a lot of ground and will deepen your understanding of what you are rightly seeing. 73, de Nate N0NB -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
John I would struggle to explain this, but I'm quite certain that what you are seeing is quite correct and nothing to worry about. The Palstar is showing you the swr of the antenna and feedline. The K3 ATU is matching the transmitter to this impedance. The ATU does not change the antenna impedance. Regards John G4ZTR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Dziedziejko Sent: 02 January 2012 04:13 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question I installed the KAT3 over the weekend and the construction and calibration was successful. This evening I hooked everything back up to check reception, tuning and swr. I have it set to AUTO, when I tap the ATU TUNE switch the tuner does its thing and I read a 1.0:1 swr on the K3 meter. I have a Palstar Wattmeter installed between the K3 and the antenna and for some reason I am getting a high swr on the Palstar meter of 5:1 and don't understand why. I have a multiband vertical antenna with a 4:1 Unun at the base of the antenna. Am I missing something here? A little hand holding would be appreciated. Regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6759 (20120101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6761 (20120102) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
John, that is a common question. The KAT3 is providing a 1:1 SWR between the KAT3 and the PA *inside* the K3 so the K3's PA is 'seeing' the correct load. The KAT3 cannot change the impedance of the antenna presented to the ANT connector. You didn't say how much coax ran from the K3 to the Palstar. For an accurate comparison it should be zero (use an adapter) or at most an couple of inches of coax. You can replace the antenna with a good dummy load, and they should read much closer, although most dummy loads have some error as well, nor are SWR meters precision instruments; they don't need to be for efficient transmission line operation at H.F. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Dziedziejko Sent: 02 January 2012 04:13 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question I installed the KAT3 over the weekend and the construction and calibration was successful. This evening I hooked everything back up to check reception, tuning and swr. I have it set to AUTO, when I tap the ATU TUNE switch the tuner does its thing and I read a 1.0:1 swr on the K3 meter. I have a Palstar Wattmeter installed between the K3 and the antenna and for some reason I am getting a high swr on the Palstar meter of 5:1 and don't understand why. I have a multiband vertical antenna with a 4:1 Unun at the base of the antenna. Am I missing something here? A little hand holding would be appreciated. Regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6759 (20120101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6761 (20120102) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
You didn't say how much coax ran from the K3 to the Palstar. For an accurate comparison it should be zero (use an adapter) or at most an couple of inches of coax. It the KAT3 is in use one can *never* compare the SWR displayed by the K3 and that displayed by an external SWR bridge/wattmeter since there will be an *impedance changing device* (the KAT3) between the K3's SWR detector and the external SWR detector even if the length of coax is zero. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 1/2/2012 11:27 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: John, that is a common question. The KAT3 is providing a 1:1 SWR between the KAT3 and the PA *inside* the K3 so the K3's PA is 'seeing' the correct load. The KAT3 cannot change the impedance of the antenna presented to the ANT connector. You didn't say how much coax ran from the K3 to the Palstar. For an accurate comparison it should be zero (use an adapter) or at most an couple of inches of coax. You can replace the antenna with a good dummy load, and they should read much closer, although most dummy loads have some error as well, nor are SWR meters precision instruments; they don't need to be for efficient transmission line operation at H.F. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Dziedziejko Sent: 02 January 2012 04:13 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question I installed the KAT3 over the weekend and the construction and calibration was successful. This evening I hooked everything back up to check reception, tuning and swr. I have it set to AUTO, when I tap the ATU TUNE switch the tuner does its thing and I read a 1.0:1 swr on the K3 meter. I have a Palstar Wattmeter installed between the K3 and the antenna and for some reason I am getting a high swr on the Palstar meter of 5:1 and don't understand why. I have a multiband vertical antenna with a 4:1 Unun at the base of the antenna. Am I missing something here? A little hand holding would be appreciated. Regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6759 (20120101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6761 (20120102) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
John, No harm to leave the external meter in line, just don't use it's readings.. I have a Palstar ATU in line for when I use my amp with my multi-band doublet. When the amp is not switched in I'll often bypass the ATU and use the KAT3. The swr meter in the Palstar atu is still in-line however and will indicate forward and reflected powers consistent with whatever swr is on the line between the KAT3 and antenna; the swr reading on the K3 is all that matters in this case but the external meter is not doing any harm 73, Stewart, GW0ETF John Dziedziejko wrote Thanks for the responses, will take the Palstar out and hook the antenna directly to the K3 and go by the K3's swr meter and power output indications. Best regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@.qth This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Internal-Tuner-Question-tp7143059p7144340.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Quite right Joe, since, as I said, the KAT3 is providing a low SWR between the KAT3 and PA *inside* the K3. Now for another cup of coffee... Ron AC7AC -Original Message- You didn't say how much coax ran from the K3 to the Palstar. For an accurate comparison it should be zero (use an adapter) or at most an couple of inches of coax. It the KAT3 is in use one can *never* compare the SWR displayed by the K3 and that displayed by an external SWR bridge/wattmeter since there will be an *impedance changing device* (the KAT3) between the K3's SWR detector and the external SWR detector even if the length of coax is zero. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
I also have a meter between my K3 and my antenna. The AWESOME tuner in the K3 keeps the radio happy, while the external meter will show, at a glance if there has been any significant change in the antenna itself. Dave - K9FN Sent from my Samsung smartphone on ATT GW0ETF gw0...@btinternet.com wrote: John, No harm to leave the external meter in line, just don't use it's readings.. I have a Palstar ATU in line for when I use my amp with my multi-band doublet. When the amp is not switched in I'll often bypass the ATU and use the KAT3. The swr meter in the Palstar atu is still in-line however and will indicate forward and reflected powers consistent with whatever swr is on the line between the KAT3 and antenna; the swr reading on the K3 is all that matters in this case but the external meter is not doing any harm 73, Stewart, GW0ETF John Dziedziejko wrote Thanks for the responses, will take the Palstar out and hook the antenna directly to the K3 and go by the K3's swr meter and power output indications. Best regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@.qth This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Internal-Tuner-Question-tp7143059p7144340.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
John, The VSWR will still be the same as you read on Palstar. What you are seeing on the K3 is the VSWR being presented to the K3 PA stage. It's not the actual VSWR on the system as a whole. That VSWR is what the Palstar is seeing. Barry KS7DX -Original Message- From: John Dziedziejko [mailto:dziedziej...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 8:37 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question Thanks for the responses, will take the Palstar out and hook the antenna directly to the K3 and go by the K3's swr meter and power output indications. Best regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Let me see if I can correctly state, with clarity for all to understand so this thread can die peacefully and we can move on (please?). The K3 puts out power into an internal tuner (if installed) and then to an SO-239 at the rear of the radio. If the tuner is in bypass, the impedance is very close to 50 ohm resistive at that connector. In this case, any SWR meter (bridge) downstream to the antenna will read the SWR (AT THAT POINT IN THE FEEDLINE which may/not agree with the K3 reading). If the tuner is NOT in bypass, the impedance at the same SO-239 will be +-10:1 of 50 ohms. Since any other SWR meter (bridge) between the K3 and the antenna is probably NOT seeing the expected 50 Ohm impedance, the reading of OTHER than the K3 meter will be called into question and more than likely wrong. Repeating, when the internal tuner is used, the K3 meter is the only one that is accurate. Thank you and Happy New Year, Rick wa6nhc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Rick, Not quite -- Both SWR meters can be quite accurate - they are just not measuring the same thing. Imagine an external tuner - put an SWR meter on the input, and another on the output - Now make changes to the L and C in the tuner - note that the SWR meter on the input is the only one that will change - the one on the output will stay at the same SWR indication. The Antenna Tuner does not change anything in the antenna system beyond the tuner output - (yes, it is not very well named) - what an antenna tuner does is add inductance and capacity at one point in the feedline so that the impedance at its input is close to 50 ohms resistive. It transforms the impedance -- it really does not Tune anything. The same thing happens with the internal tuner in the K3 - the K3 indicates the same as the meter on the *input* in my example above - the external meter acts as the one on the output, and it will not change no matter how you change the settings of the ATU. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/2/2012 8:06 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Let me see if I can correctly state, with clarity for all to understand so this thread can die peacefully and we can move on (please?). The K3 puts out power into an internal tuner (if installed) and then to an SO-239 at the rear of the radio. If the tuner is in bypass, the impedance is very close to 50 ohm resistive at that connector. In this case, any SWR meter (bridge) downstream to the antenna will read the SWR (AT THAT POINT IN THE FEEDLINE which may/not agree with the K3 reading). If the tuner is NOT in bypass, the impedance at the same SO-239 will be +-10:1 of 50 ohms. Since any other SWR meter (bridge) between the K3 and the antenna is probably NOT seeing the expected 50 Ohm impedance, the reading of OTHER than the K3 meter will be called into question and more than likely wrong. Repeating, when the internal tuner is used, the K3 meter is the only one that is accurate. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Not sure I understand this. I did not think an SWR meter was supposed to work properly only when seeing 50 ohms restive. If the line is not flat it is terminated in to something other than the feedline impedance, i.e. not 50 ohms restive in this discussion. I would expect the SWR meter at some point in the feedline to be accurate under those conditions because it is supposed to measure the standing wave ratio of the feedline with respect to that 50 ohm resistive. If I then have an antenna coupler in the radio that is matching the transmitter to that non-50 ohm impedance why would the SWR meter change to inaccurately measuring the SWR? Putting the K3 into bypass or letting it tune should not change the SWR measures at some point in the feedline. The K3 may show 1:1 simply because it properly transformed the line impedance to 50 ohms restive. Perhaps I am missing something here. Sorry for continuing the discussion. 73, tom n4zpt On 1/2/2012 8:06 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Let me see if I can correctly state, with clarity for all to understand so this thread can die peacefully and we can move on (please?). The K3 puts out power into an internal tuner (if installed) and then to an SO-239 at the rear of the radio. If the tuner is in bypass, the impedance is very close to 50 ohm resistive at that connector. In this case, any SWR meter (bridge) downstream to the antenna will read the SWR (AT THAT POINT IN THE FEEDLINE which may/not agree with the K3 reading). If the tuner is NOT in bypass, the impedance at the same SO-239 will be +-10:1 of 50 ohms. Since any other SWR meter (bridge) between the K3 and the antenna is probably NOT seeing the expected 50 Ohm impedance, the reading of OTHER than the K3 meter will be called into question and more than likely wrong. Repeating, when the internal tuner is used, the K3 meter is the only one that is accurate. Thank you and Happy New Year, Rick wa6nhc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Tom, All an antenna tuner does is show the radio the load it expects; the SWR will still be high at the output of the tuner, and an SWR meter in the coax at that output will show it as it actually is at that point, not as it is on the input of the tuner/output of the radio. Matthew Pitts N8OHU Sent from my Wireless Device __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Thanks Matthew. I should not have spoken like that. Should just have said the meter in the line would not change just because a radio tuner transformed impedance to make the radio happy. 73, tom n4zpt On 1/2/2012 9:11 PM, Matthew Pitts wrote: Tom, All an antenna tuner does is show the radio the load it expects; the SWR will still be high at the output of the tuner, and an SWR meter in the coax at that output will show it as it actually is at that point, not as it is on the input of the tuner/output of the radio. Matthew Pitts N8OHU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Quite right. There a couple of impedance transformations that occur between the collectors (or plates) of the power amplifiers and the antenna. The first is done by the output filters. In modern rigs, they are fixed tuned and designed in common Ham rigs to convert the impedance at the collectors to 50 ohms, resistive. If your antenna presents that impedance, no further conversion is necessary. But many antennas don't. In the old days the output network was adjustable and we simply did the necessary adjustments and all was good. Nowadays, with fixed tuned amplifier output networks, we need another matching network to handle the conversion when the antenna doesn't present a 50 ohms resistive load. Enter the antenna tuner that converts what the antenna shows to the 50 ohms needed by the output filter. The built in SWR meter displays the SWR on the link between the tuner and the output filter. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tom Azlin N4ZPT Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:19 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question Thanks Matthew. I should not have spoken like that. Should just have said the meter in the line would not change just because a radio tuner transformed impedance to make the radio happy. 73, tom n4zpt On 1/2/2012 9:11 PM, Matthew Pitts wrote: Tom, All an antenna tuner does is show the radio the load it expects; the SWR will still be high at the output of the tuner, and an SWR meter in the coax at that output will show it as it actually is at that point, not as it is on the input of the tuner/output of the radio. Matthew Pitts N8OHU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Hi Tom, Ok, one more swing at it. The tuner as Don states (and we agree), is transforming the 50 Ohm impedance of the transmitter, into something that mates better with the impedance of the antenna for (hopefully*) better transfer of energy to/from the antenna. There are similar circuits inside every radio to transfer the energy between sections. The proper term would be impedance matching circuit or device but we're taught (and stuck with) 'tuner'. Now, using our beloved K3 in this example: Tuner in bypass produces ~50 Ohm impedance at the back of the K3. Tuner in use produces an impedance of somewhere between 5-500 Ohms at the back of the same K3. You don't know what that impedance is. The SWR meter is expecting (because transmitters are usually set to) 50 Ohm impedance. If that impedance is off, the meter reading is probably wrong. Sure, it will read something, but the reading is worthless (even as a power meter) because of the mismatch. The amount of error is dependent on the amount of mismatch (which we don't know). So you're correct, that they are only accurate at 50 Ohm impedance (give or take a small percentage). This is why you put the SWR meter between the output of a known impedance (50 Ohm coming out of the transmitter) and the matching device (50 Ohm input). As the device changes LC values to compensate for (match) the reactance(s) of the antenna, the standing wave at the meter is reduced. This is how you can tell that the matching device is transferring more energy to the antenna (the reactance is 'tuned' out). As Don also accurately stated, it doesn't make the antenna work ANY better, but it does transfer more energy TO the antenna (disregarding tuner and line losses) because of better matching. And note that I most carefully said that the meter makes a reading AT THAT POINT IN THE FEEDLINE. If you add/subtract patch cables to an external meter (or alter feedline length), your reading may very well be different. The 'trap' that many hams fall into is that the feedline is treated as a 'hose' between transmitter and antenna. It isn't; but is PART of the entire circuit (it is not passive). Which leads to your next comment. What you were referring to was that the impedance of the antenna is best read (is duplicated) at half wave intervals on the feedline (ignoring the added feedline reactance). Most hams simply cut to convenient lengths (me too) because we're using multiple band antennas (or at least feeding them that way) and we tend to let the 'tuner' take up any slack (or ignore the losses). This is why the K3 meter, sensing at the transmitter output and before the internal tuner, is the best place to measure SWR. The tuner matches THAT point in the feedline system for best transfer of energy. The bottom line is simple. If you are using a matching device (a tuner) the ONLY place that a SWR meter will accurately read what you expect, is after the amplifier and before the matching device. This should also show you why short patch cables should be used to attach the SWR meter to the transmitter, to minimize error from reading at a random point in the feed (it's more accurate AT the transmitter). Does that help? Rick WA6NHC * I threw in this caveat because I once had a very nice, high power, homebrew 'tuner' that I could feed with the 200 watt transmitter and get a 'perfect match' with *nothing* delivered to the attached end fed random wire. The 'tuner' simply converted it into heat. If I retuned using a different LC combination, I was heard. Don't ask what type etc., because I don't remember and stupidly sold it over 30 years ago. :o( -Original Message- From: Tom Azlin N4ZPT Not sure I understand this. I did not think an SWR meter was supposed to work properly only when seeing 50 ohms restive. If the line is not flat it is terminated in to something other than the feedline impedance, i.e. not 50 ohms restive in this discussion. I would expect the SWR meter at some point in the feedline to be accurate under those conditions because it is supposed to measure the standing wave ratio of the feedline with respect to that 50 ohm resistive. If I then have an antenna coupler in the radio that is matching the transmitter to that non-50 ohm impedance why would the SWR meter change to inaccurately measuring the SWR? Putting the K3 into bypass or letting it tune should not change the SWR measures at some point in the feedline. The K3 may show 1:1 simply because it properly transformed the line impedance to 50 ohms restive. Perhaps I am missing something here. Sorry for continuing the discussion. 73, tom n4zpt On 1/2/2012 8:06 PM, Rick Bates wrote: Let me see if I can correctly state, with clarity for all to understand so this thread can die peacefully and we can move on (please?). The K3 puts out power into an internal tuner (if installed) and then to an SO-239 at the rear of the radio. If the tuner is in bypass, the impedance is very
[Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
I installed the KAT3 over the weekend and the construction and calibration was successful. This evening I hooked everything back up to check reception, tuning and swr. I have it set to AUTO, when I tap the ATU TUNE switch the tuner does its thing and I read a 1.0:1 swr on the K3 meter. I have a Palstar Wattmeter installed between the K3 and the antenna and for some reason I am getting a high swr on the Palstar meter of 5:1 and don't understand why. I have a multiband vertical antenna with a 4:1 Unun at the base of the antenna. Am I missing something here? A little hand holding would be appreciated. Regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
The SWR displayed on the K3 is after the PA, but before the ATU. The external meter shows the SWR at the antenna, after the ATU. Dick, K6KR On Jan 1, 2012, at 20:12, John Dziedziejko dziedziej...@bellsouth.net wrote: I installed the KAT3 over the weekend and the construction and calibration was successful. This evening I hooked everything back up to check reception, tuning and swr. I have it set to AUTO, when I tap the ATU TUNE switch the tuner does its thing and I read a 1.0:1 swr on the K3 meter. I have a Palstar Wattmeter installed between the K3 and the antenna and for some reason I am getting a high swr on the Palstar meter of 5:1 and don't understand why. I have a multiband vertical antenna with a 4:1 Unun at the base of the antenna. Am I missing something here? A little hand holding would be appreciated. Regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner Question
Thanks for the responses, will take the Palstar out and hook the antenna directly to the K3 and go by the K3's swr meter and power output indications. Best regards, John W9QP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 internal tuner question
Hello all, The internal tuner on my K3 works great. It's much better than I expected. However I've noticed something unexpected, so I'll ask the list(s). I've cleared the tuner memories (K3_EZ) and have gone to often used frequencies (local 75 meter nets for example) activated the tuner, which comes to 1:1. Then over the course of the day, I'm elsewhere in the bands. When I come back to that net channel, I check the tuning before checking into the net. The tuner clicks away and may come back with say a 3.4:1 match, so I tap it again and it settles on a 1:1 match and I operate. The antenna (a EDZ wire) hasn't moved, no significant weather (or bird) changes. Am I wrong in my understanding that the tuner remembers the frequency and associated settings for that frequency (per antenna)? My other concern is that with the limitations of the HRD software (no SWR reading), I don't know if the tuner settled on 6:1 or 1:1 (no audible clue either). Thanks in advance, Rick WA6NHC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
I have a 43-foot high x 130-foot long inverted-L that I use on 500-KHz with a HB base coil to ground. I tap 2-1/2 turns from the bottom to feed with coax using ferrite chokes for common-mode currents. Works very reliably. On 500-KHz I have winter and summer taps as the frozen ground changes continuity affecting my ground system. This fall I hope to locate tap positions on the coil to run at 160 80m 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com == __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
On 9/18/2011 9:10 PM, Cady, Fred wrote: I recently started to learn how to use W7EL's Eznec antenna modeling program so I decided to try to model the 43' vertical. I don't quite see the magic but a 4:1 un-un looks like it will bring the impedance into reason for 80, 40, 14 and 18. The antenna resonates at 5.7, 16.7 and 28 MHz. Years ago, I would get excited when I read about The New Antenna that doubles as a floor lamp to keep spouse happy and on which you can operate all bands and make DXCC in a weekend. Then, I discovered James Maxwell got it all right back in the in the 19th century. Some things never change, that's why I graduated in Math. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
Just curious if anyone else is using the K3 internal tuner with a 43' vertical. Will handle all the bands 10 - 160? Or do I need to purchase an external tuner. I'm about to put one up to get me on the air. This will be a temporary antenna while I build the antenna farm here at the new qth. What I would really like is the new Elecraft tuner located at the base of the vertical. I have an sgc-239 that I used at my last qth, and it was located at the base of the vertical. Worked great. Unfortunately its only a 200 watt tuner and it won't handle the KPA500 I'm about to order. Thanks Rich - N5ZC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
Just curious if anyone else is using the K3 internal tuner with a 43' vertical. Will handle all the bands 10 - 160? Or do I need to purchase an external tuner. I'm about to put one up to get me on the air. This will be a temporary antenna while I build the antenna farm here at the new qth. What I would really like is the new Elecraft tuner located at the base of the vertical. I have an sgc-239 that I used at my last qth, and it was located at the base of the vertical. Worked great. The K3 internal tuner may or may not be able to tune 160-meters - I suspect it will have no problem on 80 meters. It depends on the length and loss of your feedline. The 43-foot vertical has HORRIBLE SWR on 160- and 80-meters. And so your line loss will be very high. You need about 55uhy of total inductance to match the 43-footer on 160 meters at the antenna base which I believe is more than the K3 tuner has available. But if the feedline length and loss is just right, the matching range of the K3 tuner may be sufficient on that band. Incidentally, the SGC-239 does not have enough inductance to match the antenna on 160 meters. If you were able to do this, you were simply matching into the internal losses in the tuner. I did an evaluation of the SGC-230 with the 43-foot vertical (info on my website at www.ad5x.com), and as part of that I found that the SG-230 would match into an open circuit. Obviously it was matching into its own internal losses. I built an external inductor for use with 43-footers that worked well with my MFJ-927. The new MFJ remote autotuners look interesting, but they also do not have enough inductance to match a 43-footer on 160 meters. It will be interesting to see if the remote KAT500 will have enough inductance to match a 43-footer on 160 meters. Meanwhile, if you use your 43-footer on 160- and 80-meters (like I do) consider base matching on those bands. See the base matching article on my website. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
I hope you have a 4:1 Unun at the antenna. I am going to play with one of these antennas at 31ft and 43ft for an antenna down at J6 as they are light and easy to take and seem to work on all bands. It would make an ok backup/secondary antenna. On 9/18/2011 10:49 AM, Phil Debbie Salas wrote: Just curious if anyone else is using the K3 internal tuner with a 43' vertical. Will handle all the bands 10 - 160? Or do I need to purchase an external tuner. I'm about to put one up to get me on the air. This will be a temporary antenna while I build the antenna farm here at the new qth. What I would really like is the new Elecraft tuner located at the base of the vertical. I have an sgc-239 that I used at my last qth, and it was located at the base of the vertical. Worked great. The K3 internal tuner may or may not be able to tune 160-meters - I suspect it will have no problem on 80 meters. It depends on the length and loss of your feedline. The 43-foot vertical has HORRIBLE SWR on 160- and 80-meters. And so your line loss will be very high. You need about 55uhy of total inductance to match the 43-footer on 160 meters at the antenna base which I believe is more than the K3 tuner has available. But if the feedline length and loss is just right, the matching range of the K3 tuner may be sufficient on that band. Incidentally, the SGC-239 does not have enough inductance to match the antenna on 160 meters. If you were able to do this, you were simply matching into the internal losses in the tuner. I did an evaluation of the SGC-230 with the 43-foot vertical (info on my website at www.ad5x.com), and as part of that I found that the SG-230 would match into an open circuit. Obviously it was matching into its own internal losses. I built an external inductor for use with 43-footers that worked well with my MFJ-927. The new MFJ remote autotuners look interesting, but they also do not have enough inductance to match a 43-footer on 160 meters. It will be interesting to see if the remote KAT500 will have enough inductance to match a 43-footer on 160 meters. Meanwhile, if you use your 43-footer on 160- and 80-meters (like I do) consider base matching on those bands. See the base matching article on my website. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- J6/W0MU November 21 - December 1 2011 CQ WW DX CW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
Phil amp; Debbie Salas wrote: The K3 internal tuner may or may not be able to tune 160-meters - I suspect it will have no problem on 80 meters. It depends on the length and loss of your feedline. The 43-foot vertical has HORRIBLE SWR on 160- and 80-meters. And so your line loss will be very high. I'd attach a 40' wire to the top of the vertical, run it back down next to the vertical for 40-10m and it should be invisible on those bands. For 80-160m, pull it out as far as possible (or rig an attachment rope to an adjacent tree) to add some top-loading on those bands. It's not instant band-switching but should work far better than base-loading. 73, Bill W4ZV -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Internal-Tuner-and-43-Vertical-tp6805633p6806399.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
I ran my K3 with internal autotuner on the DX Engineering 43' fast-taper vertical with their 4:1 UNUN with excellent results on 40 meters and up. I tried a couple of local qso's on 75 and it worked ok, but I was only running 100watts on a KW band. I tried loading on 160 meters and think it did load, but the QRN was so bad I never tried to make any contacts. This was all at my Arizona QTH where the vertical was my only option. I replaced my Butternut vertical with the 43' vertical and definitely thought it was the better antenna. Ground field was poultry netting spread out in an X pattern about 30' on each side. If I could hear it, I generally could work it. Again all done with 100Watts. You refer to the Elecraft tuner for the KPA-500, I don't know there is one, yet. Good Luck Chuck K4SC, York SC -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Internal-Tuner-and-43-Vertical-tp6805633p6806800.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
I recently started to learn how to use W7EL's Eznec antenna modeling program so I decided to try to model the 43' vertical. I don't quite see the magic but a 4:1 un-un looks like it will bring the impedance into reason for 80, 40, 14 and 18. The antenna resonates at 5.7, 16.7 and 28 MHz. I posted the SWR and a couple of elevation plots at www.ke7x.com (click on The 43' Vertical). 73 all, Fred KE7X Fred Cady fcady at ke7x.com The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation www.ke7x.com -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft- boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of K4SC Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:51 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical I ran my K3 with internal autotuner on the DX Engineering 43' fast- taper vertical with their 4:1 UNUN with excellent results on 40 meters and up. I tried a couple of local qso's on 75 and it worked ok, but I was only running 100watts on a KW band. I tried loading on 160 meters and think it did load, but the QRN was so bad I never tried to make any contacts. This was all at my Arizona QTH where the vertical was my only option. I replaced my Butternut vertical with the 43' vertical and definitely thought it was the better antenna. Ground field was poultry netting spread out in an X pattern about 30' on each side. If I could hear it, I generally could work it. Again all done with 100Watts. You refer to the Elecraft tuner for the KPA-500, I don't know there is one, yet. Good Luck Chuck K4SC, York SC -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3- Internal-Tuner-and-43-Vertical-tp6805633p6806800.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Tuner and 43' Vertical
On 9/18/2011 9:10 PM, Cady, Fred wrote: I don't quite see the magic Didn't you drink the kool-aid, Fred? :) 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
