Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Chris Morley]

I see that 2.8 has lots of work in it.
I think a release of it is warranted.

Chris

From: andy pugh 
Sent: March 31, 2022 7:30 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release


atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Steffen Möller]
> Ah, famous SebKuminsky is behind it on
> https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/releases - that makes it two. I
> just saw that someone Petter already sent in patches who is a Debian
> Developer - @petter, I made the lighthearted promise to package CAM to
> augment the CNC infrastructure of Debian. Can I leave this one for you
> and I then take the next library/tool that comes up?

Sadly,  I only have capacity to assist, not lead the work.

-- 
Happy ahcking
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

So with the changes Stefan made, I can confirm that Linuxcnc will build
both debs and RIP on the 5.16 unstable kernel.
I still can't install from the debian repositories.
Lets continue the conversation about this issue here
 https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues/1692


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 at 07:05, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:

> Le ven. 1 avr. 2022 à 21:31, Chris Morley  a
> écrit :
>
> >
> > Whether we release on Debians schedule or our own, with ISO or not, we
> > still need to plan to have the code as bug free as possible which takes
> > time for testing after merging big code chucks in.
> >
> >
> This is THE LAW ;-)
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le ven. 1 avr. 2022 à 21:31, Chris Morley  a
écrit :

>
> Whether we release on Debians schedule or our own, with ISO or not, we
> still need to plan to have the code as bug free as possible which takes
> time for testing after merging big code chucks in.
>
>
This is THE LAW ;-)

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Chris Morley]

>I'm suggesting we try to plan a bit better and maybe release more often.

>>If Linuxcnc is seriously committing to deploy the project using the Debian
>>repositories
>>the Linuxcnc release schedule is set for us now by the Debian release
>>schedule.


Whether we release on Debians schedule or our own, with ISO or not, we still 
need to plan to have the code as bug free as possible which takes time for 
testing after merging big code chucks in.

Chris

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Steffen Möller]

On 01.04.22 19:51, gene heskett wrote:

On Friday, 1 April 2022 13:19:55 EDT Steffen Möller wrote:

On 01.04.22 19:16, gene heskett wrote:

I'm getting sorta familiar with OpenSCAD, but I'm feeding a 3d
printer

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/openscad

available


As I wrote, thats very old, much slower code than the current AppImage,
which you can get if you scroll to the bottom of the lengthy download
page. Runs perfect on bullseye on a wintel box.

Right. These are the current development versions. They also offer an
installation as a .deb from their "nightlies" repository

http://openscad.org/downloads.html#linux

Best,
Steffen


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[gene heskett]

On Friday, 1 April 2022 06:27:32 EDT Rod Webster wrote:
> Steffan,
> Thanks for the background and update.
> Sometimes I think I must be the only one playing with Sid and the
> Debian packages.
> It's now quite dated. It's a bit frustrating that you have to then
> compile Linuxcnc to get the latest updates but the vast majority of
> the dependencies are already installed so this is pretty easy if you
> follow the docs.
> 
> With the things I've done, I've never been able to run the release
> version as it is missing stuff I need.
> 
> If it were me, I would just take a snapshot of Linuxcnc master branch
> for your tarball from time to time but I'm not in the dev team.
> I guess that's basically what we users do when we compile master
> branch. Its been very rare that I've experienced a major issue in the
> code. (once or twice in 5 years)
> Maybe Andy or someone can just create that pre1 branch so we can update
> the repos.
> 
I can echo that, I've been running master on my stuff for a decade. 2 
gotcha's.

> When 2.9 is frozen and moved to a separate branch, it becomes pretty
> easy to know what needs to be packaged. It will eventually become the
> stable release version so updates will be very infrequent. I think we
> need a bit more intensive care for the initial period.
> 
> I really appreciate all that you've done to get us this far. I just
> hope the project gets in the groove of timing their version updates
> with the Debian releases.
> I have to say that the 5.16 kernel is giving the most amazingly low
> latency on USFF hardware I have had for years.. and proper UEFI
> support is nice...

Somewhere, if I haven't overwritten that card, I have a raspios bullseye 
with 5.16.2-28 installed. But the python is too new for LinuxCNC. All I 
can say is it Just Works. So latency-test hasn't been run on bullseye, 
but buster? 4.5 u-secs as long as I stay away from the firefox button.
raspios buster running 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+ #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Feb 6 
07:09:18 EST 2020 armv7l is what I have used since I built it 2+ years 
ago, gives around 12 microseconds. Plenty fast enough to run machinery 
with.



> Rod Webster
> *1300 896 832*
> +61 435 765 611
> Vehicle Modifications Network
> www.vehiclemods.net.au

Take care and stay well, Rod.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[gene heskett]

On Friday, 1 April 2022 13:19:55 EDT Steffen Möller wrote:
> On 01.04.22 19:16, gene heskett wrote:
> > I'm getting sorta familiar with OpenSCAD, but I'm feeding a 3d
> > printer
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/openscad
> 
> available
> 
As I wrote, thats very old, much slower code than the current AppImage, 
which you can get if you scroll to the bottom of the lengthy download 
page. Runs perfect on bullseye on a wintel box.
> 
> 
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[gene heskett]

On Friday, 1 April 2022 11:04:09 EDT Steffen Möller wrote:
> On 01.04.22 16:59, Hans Unzner wrote:
> > Regarding the CAM software:
> > It feels for me a bit like everyone is building/having their own CAM
> > tool.
> > Just to mention a few that comes into my mind: NativeCAM, PyCam,
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/31-cad-cam/45456-simple-linux-cam?start=0
> > I haven't worked with them so I don't know the strengths of these
> > tools. But wouldn't it be nice to concentrate the energy on building
> > one that covers all? And this could be the "official LinuxCNC CAM"
> > that is shipped with LinuxCNC according to Steffens vision...
> 
> How about this: If two people on this list are supporting a particular
> Open Source CAM tool and volunteer to write a section for our
> documentation (any language would do) on how to use it with LinuxCNC,
> then I package it for Debian.

That would be great and OpenSCAD would be nice but it also is being 
developed at a high rate of speed. I use the AppImage here and its 
refreshed about monthly.  The Stable issue is now around 14 months older 
than the current AppImage. OpenSCAD already has excellent docs.

The AppImage is now up to 100x faster for some things. And 10x faster at 
most everything.

Unfortunately, Stephen, I may be the only "wild card" here, both in the 
use of OpenSCAD and in the use of an rpi to drive a 3/4 ton 75 yo Sheldon 
lathe I rebuilt. I've an rpi4b in there now, but did it with an rp3b for 
a couple years. With some good luck I won't be alone, I sent a couple 
bootable u-sd's to another gent out on the left coast, 4 days ago who is 
going to see if he can run his 3 axis Cinci mill, and maybe even a Mazak 
with rpi4's.
 
> Best,
> Steffen

Take care and stay well Stephen.
[...]
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Steffen Möller]

On 01.04.22 19:16, gene heskett wrote:

I'm getting sorta familiar with OpenSCAD, but I'm feeding a 3d printer


https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/openscad

available



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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[gene heskett]

On Friday, 1 April 2022 10:59:08 EDT Hans Unzner wrote:
> Regarding the CAM software:
> It feels for me a bit like everyone is building/having their own CAM
> tool. Just to mention a few that comes into my mind: NativeCAM, PyCam,
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/31-cad-cam/45456-simple-linux-cam?start=0 I
> haven't worked with them so I don't know the strengths of these tools.
> But wouldn't it be nice to concentrate the energy on building one that
> covers all? And this could be the "official LinuxCNC CAM" that is
> shipped with LinuxCNC according to Steffens vision...
> 
> /Hans
> 
> Am 01.04.22 um 12:11 schrieb Steffen Möller:
> > Hi again,
> > 
> > To me, the .iso is a show room, and that may be worthwhile to extend
> > beyond the core functionality of LinuxCNC. I am too fresh into this
> > to
> > design this myself, read: I would benefit from such a compilation,
> > too.
> > 
> > On https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/1691 Jérémie mentioned
> > that the user experience gets initial hits from a non-graphical
> > network setup. I have not tried the .iso myself, no idea, but no
> > doubt something can be done to help our users at every level.
> > 
> > From my side missing is a bit of CAD and CAM to complete the
> > workflows
> > that our users go through. I am using FreeCAD on an RPi4 (2GB) on a
> > large monitor (>30") and it is just working fine - a bit to my
> > surprise. So, once LinuxCNC is installable to Raspbian, not too much
> > more there will be to do for us on that platform. We could come up
> > with a "linuxcnc-environment" package that drags everything in that
> > we like to be shipping. For Intel/AMD platforms, there is
> > http://www.knoppix.org/ that may be worthwhile to investigate as a
> > basis for a LinuxCNC stick which then also features the
> > linuxcnc-environment binary and its dependencies.
> > 
> > Best,
> > Steffen
 
I'm getting sorta familiar with OpenSCAD, but I'm feeding a 3d printer 
gcode that cura "slices", an obviously additive and slow process.  I 
would like very much to have an .stl or similar convertor that could 
write gcode for a mill or lathe, subtracting from the specified or probe 
scanned raw size, to get the finished OpenSCAD .stl's output.

Or does such a converter already exist? OpenSCAD has quite a lengthy list 
of output formats, so using an .stl input is not an "only" choice.

> > On 01.04.22 09:59, Rod Webster wrote:
> >> Jérémie, Phil,
> >> 
> >> The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation
> >> including
> >> how to list the required dependencies,
> >> If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
> >> https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
> >> Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the
> >> source. You can build the .debs and install them.
> >> 
> >> I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into
> >> a
> >> VPS
> >> in about 20 minutes.
> >> 
> >> Rod Webster
> >> *1300 896 832*
> >> +61 435 765 611
> >> Vehicle Modifications Network
> >> www.vehiclemods.net.au
> >> 
> >> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 16:52, Jérémie Tarot  
wrote:
> >>> Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer
> >>> 
> >>> a
> >>> 
> >>> écrit :
>  I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and
>  effort is
>  currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo
>  tech.
> >>> 
> >>> That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
> >>> Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed
> >>> today. Let's
> >>> share the journey mate 
> >>> 
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >> 
> >> ___
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> > 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le ven. 1 avr. 2022 à 18:01, Hans Unzner  a écrit :

> At least for pycam there is already a comprehensive documentation:
> http://pycam.sourceforge.net/
>
> Am 01.04.22 um 17:04 schrieb Steffen Möller:
> >
> > On 01.04.22 16:59, Hans Unzner wrote:
> >> Regarding the CAM software:
> >> It feels for me a bit like everyone is building/having their own CAM
> >> tool.
> >> Just to mention a few that comes into my mind: NativeCAM, PyCam,
> >> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/31-cad-cam/45456-simple-linux-cam?start=0
> >> I haven't worked with them so I don't know the strengths of these tools.
> >> But wouldn't it be nice to concentrate the energy on building one that
> >> covers all? And this could be the "official LinuxCNC CAM" that is
> >> shipped with LinuxCNC according to Steffens vision...
>

For me that'd be FreeCAD Path workbench by far !
Then there could be a selection of specialized g-code generators.


> > How about this: If two people on this list are supporting a particular
> > Open Source CAM tool and volunteer to write a section for our
> > documentation (any language would do) on how to use it with LinuxCNC,
> > then I package it for Debian.
>

Good deal, I like it :)


> >>> will be to do for us on that platform. We could come up with a
> >>> "linuxcnc-environment" package that drags everything in that we like to
> >>> be shipping.


Debian tasks and tasksel seem a good fit for this and would easily
integrate with current live iso build infrastucture
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Tasks
https://wiki.debian.org/tasksel

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Steffen Möller]

Ah, famous SebKuminsky is behind it on
https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/releases - that makes it two. I
just saw that someone Petter already sent in patches who is a Debian
Developer - @petter, I made the lighthearted promise to package CAM to
augment the CNC infrastructure of Debian. Can I leave this one for you
and I then take the next library/tool that comes up?

On 01.04.22 17:58, Hans Unzner wrote:

At least for pycam there is already a comprehensive documentation:
http://pycam.sourceforge.net/

Am 01.04.22 um 17:04 schrieb Steffen Möller:


On 01.04.22 16:59, Hans Unzner wrote:

Regarding the CAM software:
It feels for me a bit like everyone is building/having their own CAM
tool.
Just to mention a few that comes into my mind: NativeCAM, PyCam,
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/31-cad-cam/45456-simple-linux-cam?start=0
I haven't worked with them so I don't know the strengths of these
tools.
But wouldn't it be nice to concentrate the energy on building one that
covers all? And this could be the "official LinuxCNC CAM" that is
shipped with LinuxCNC according to Steffens vision...


How about this: If two people on this list are supporting a particular
Open Source CAM tool and volunteer to write a section for our
documentation (any language would do) on how to use it with LinuxCNC,
then I package it for Debian.

Best,
Steffen



Am 01.04.22 um 12:11 schrieb Steffen Möller:

Hi again,

To me, the .iso is a show room, and that may be worthwhile to extend
beyond the core functionality of LinuxCNC. I am too fresh into this to
design this myself, read: I would benefit from such a compilation,
too.

On https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/1691 Jérémie mentioned
that
the user experience gets initial hits from a non-graphical network
setup. I have not tried the .iso myself, no idea, but no doubt
something
can be done to help our users at every level.

From my side missing is a bit of CAD and CAM to complete the workflows
that our users go through. I am using FreeCAD on an RPi4 (2GB) on a
large monitor (>30") and it is just working fine - a bit to my
surprise.
So, once LinuxCNC is installable to Raspbian, not too much more there
will be to do for us on that platform. We could come up with a
"linuxcnc-environment" package that drags everything in that we
like to
be shipping. For Intel/AMD platforms, there is http://www.knoppix.org/
that may be worthwhile to investigate as a basis for a LinuxCNC stick
which then also features the linuxcnc-environment binary and its
dependencies.

Best,
Steffen


On 01.04.22 09:59, Rod Webster wrote:


Jérémie, Phil,

The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation
including
how to list the required dependencies,
If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the
source.
You can build the .debs and install them.

I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into
a VPS
in about 20 minutes.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 16:52, Jérémie Tarot 
wrote:


Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer

a
écrit :


I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and
effort is
currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo
tech.


That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless



once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed
today. Let's
share the journey mate 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Hans Unzner]

At least for pycam there is already a comprehensive documentation: 
http://pycam.sourceforge.net/


Am 01.04.22 um 17:04 schrieb Steffen Möller:


On 01.04.22 16:59, Hans Unzner wrote:

Regarding the CAM software:
It feels for me a bit like everyone is building/having their own CAM
tool.
Just to mention a few that comes into my mind: NativeCAM, PyCam,
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/31-cad-cam/45456-simple-linux-cam?start=0
I haven't worked with them so I don't know the strengths of these tools.
But wouldn't it be nice to concentrate the energy on building one that
covers all? And this could be the "official LinuxCNC CAM" that is
shipped with LinuxCNC according to Steffens vision...


How about this: If two people on this list are supporting a particular
Open Source CAM tool and volunteer to write a section for our
documentation (any language would do) on how to use it with LinuxCNC,
then I package it for Debian.

Best,
Steffen



Am 01.04.22 um 12:11 schrieb Steffen Möller:

Hi again,

To me, the .iso is a show room, and that may be worthwhile to extend
beyond the core functionality of LinuxCNC. I am too fresh into this to
design this myself, read: I would benefit from such a compilation, too.

On https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/1691 Jérémie mentioned 
that

the user experience gets initial hits from a non-graphical network
setup. I have not tried the .iso myself, no idea, but no doubt 
something

can be done to help our users at every level.

From my side missing is a bit of CAD and CAM to complete the workflows
that our users go through. I am using FreeCAD on an RPi4 (2GB) on a
large monitor (>30") and it is just working fine - a bit to my 
surprise.

So, once LinuxCNC is installable to Raspbian, not too much more there
will be to do for us on that platform. We could come up with a
"linuxcnc-environment" package that drags everything in that we like to
be shipping. For Intel/AMD platforms, there is http://www.knoppix.org/
that may be worthwhile to investigate as a basis for a LinuxCNC stick
which then also features the linuxcnc-environment binary and its
dependencies.

Best,
Steffen


On 01.04.22 09:59, Rod Webster wrote:


Jérémie, Phil,

The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation
including
how to list the required dependencies,
If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the
source.
You can build the .debs and install them.

I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into
a VPS
in about 20 minutes.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 16:52, Jérémie Tarot  
wrote:



Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer

a
écrit :


I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and
effort is
currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo
tech.


That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless 




once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed
today. Let's
share the journey mate 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Steffen Möller]

On 01.04.22 16:59, Hans Unzner wrote:

Regarding the CAM software:
It feels for me a bit like everyone is building/having their own CAM
tool.
Just to mention a few that comes into my mind: NativeCAM, PyCam,
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/31-cad-cam/45456-simple-linux-cam?start=0
I haven't worked with them so I don't know the strengths of these tools.
But wouldn't it be nice to concentrate the energy on building one that
covers all? And this could be the "official LinuxCNC CAM" that is
shipped with LinuxCNC according to Steffens vision...


How about this: If two people on this list are supporting a particular
Open Source CAM tool and volunteer to write a section for our
documentation (any language would do) on how to use it with LinuxCNC,
then I package it for Debian.

Best,
Steffen



Am 01.04.22 um 12:11 schrieb Steffen Möller:

Hi again,

To me, the .iso is a show room, and that may be worthwhile to extend
beyond the core functionality of LinuxCNC. I am too fresh into this to
design this myself, read: I would benefit from such a compilation, too.

On https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/1691 Jérémie mentioned that
the user experience gets initial hits from a non-graphical network
setup. I have not tried the .iso myself, no idea, but no doubt something
can be done to help our users at every level.

From my side missing is a bit of CAD and CAM to complete the workflows
that our users go through. I am using FreeCAD on an RPi4 (2GB) on a
large monitor (>30") and it is just working fine - a bit to my surprise.
So, once LinuxCNC is installable to Raspbian, not too much more there
will be to do for us on that platform. We could come up with a
"linuxcnc-environment" package that drags everything in that we like to
be shipping. For Intel/AMD platforms, there is http://www.knoppix.org/
that may be worthwhile to investigate as a basis for a LinuxCNC stick
which then also features the linuxcnc-environment binary and its
dependencies.

Best,
Steffen


On 01.04.22 09:59, Rod Webster wrote:


Jérémie, Phil,

The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation
including
how to list the required dependencies,
If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the
source.
You can build the .debs and install them.

I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into
a VPS
in about 20 minutes.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 16:52, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:


Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer

a
écrit :


I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and
effort is
currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo
tech.


That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless 


once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed
today. Let's
share the journey mate 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Hans Unzner]

Regarding the CAM software:
It feels for me a bit like everyone is building/having their own CAM tool.
Just to mention a few that comes into my mind: NativeCAM, PyCam, 
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/31-cad-cam/45456-simple-linux-cam?start=0

I haven't worked with them so I don't know the strengths of these tools.
But wouldn't it be nice to concentrate the energy on building one that 
covers all? And this could be the "official LinuxCNC CAM" that is 
shipped with LinuxCNC according to Steffens vision...


/Hans

Am 01.04.22 um 12:11 schrieb Steffen Möller:

Hi again,

To me, the .iso is a show room, and that may be worthwhile to extend
beyond the core functionality of LinuxCNC. I am too fresh into this to
design this myself, read: I would benefit from such a compilation, too.

On https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/1691 Jérémie mentioned that
the user experience gets initial hits from a non-graphical network
setup. I have not tried the .iso myself, no idea, but no doubt something
can be done to help our users at every level.

From my side missing is a bit of CAD and CAM to complete the workflows
that our users go through. I am using FreeCAD on an RPi4 (2GB) on a
large monitor (>30") and it is just working fine - a bit to my surprise.
So, once LinuxCNC is installable to Raspbian, not too much more there
will be to do for us on that platform. We could come up with a
"linuxcnc-environment" package that drags everything in that we like to
be shipping. For Intel/AMD platforms, there is http://www.knoppix.org/
that may be worthwhile to investigate as a basis for a LinuxCNC stick
which then also features the linuxcnc-environment binary and its
dependencies.

Best,
Steffen


On 01.04.22 09:59, Rod Webster wrote:


Jérémie, Phil,

The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation 
including

how to list the required dependencies,
If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the source.
You can build the .debs and install them.

I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into a 
VPS

in about 20 minutes.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 16:52, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:

Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer 


a
écrit :

I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and 
effort is

currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo tech.


That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless 


once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed 
today. Let's

share the journey mate 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

Steffan,
Thanks for the background and update.
Sometimes I think I must be the only one playing with Sid and the Debian
packages.
It's now quite dated. It's a bit frustrating that you have to then compile
Linuxcnc to get the latest updates but the vast majority of the
dependencies are already installed so this is pretty easy if you follow the
docs.

With the things I've done, I've never been able to run the release version
as it is missing stuff I need.

If it were me, I would just take a snapshot of Linuxcnc master branch for
your tarball from time to time but I'm not in the dev team.
I guess that's basically what we users do when we compile master branch.
Its been very rare that I've experienced a major issue in the code. (once
or twice in 5 years)
Maybe Andy or someone can just create that pre1 branch so we can update the
repos.

When 2.9 is frozen and moved to a separate branch, it becomes pretty easy
to know what needs to be packaged. It will eventually become the stable
release version so updates will be very infrequent. I think we need a bit
more intensive care for the initial period.

I really appreciate all that you've done to get us this far. I just hope
the project gets in the groove of timing their version updates with the
Debian releases.
I have to say that the 5.16 kernel is giving the most amazingly low latency
on USFF hardware I have had for years.. and proper UEFI support is nice...

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 19:55, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Rod,
>
> On 01.04.22 10:06, Rod Webster wrote:
> > I can't wait until it gets to Bookworm. I keep checking
>
> It is on me. What the Debian FTPmasters have checked was my initial
> build. Now, upon acceptance and with every subsequent update, they want
> just the source tarball reuploaded to autobuild themselves. And only
> once that happened, we will see the migration to other architectures and
> to testing.
>
> At the moment it is only Petter and me who we have the upload privileges
> since we are Debian Developers already. Seb, Andy and Jeff will get them
> as soon as we all find the time to get GPG-keys signed, it is a bit
> tricky since typically this needs personal contacts that do not happen
> too much these days. In the interim I happily continue the braindead
> parts of maintaining the LinuxCNC package but cannot decide about what
> versions are ready to be uploaded for a wider distribution. After all,
> LinuxCNC can be deadly.
>
> So, some clear signal would help, like the tagging of another
> pre-release (pre1 that is).
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 09:00, Stefan Freisei Muehlbacher
 wrote:

> there are already debian live images. Maybe it is worth to create a
> kickstart-script that converts a standard debian-live-iso to a linuxcnc
> live iso.

We have our own debian-live repository for creating the custom ISO
(with our own splash screen etc)
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/buster-live-build/blob/master/config/bootloaders/isolinux/splash.svg



-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Steffen Möller]

Hi again,

To me, the .iso is a show room, and that may be worthwhile to extend
beyond the core functionality of LinuxCNC. I am too fresh into this to
design this myself, read: I would benefit from such a compilation, too.

On https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/1691 Jérémie mentioned that
the user experience gets initial hits from a non-graphical network
setup. I have not tried the .iso myself, no idea, but no doubt something
can be done to help our users at every level.

From my side missing is a bit of CAD and CAM to complete the workflows
that our users go through. I am using FreeCAD on an RPi4 (2GB) on a
large monitor (>30") and it is just working fine - a bit to my surprise.
So, once LinuxCNC is installable to Raspbian, not too much more there
will be to do for us on that platform. We could come up with a
"linuxcnc-environment" package that drags everything in that we like to
be shipping. For Intel/AMD platforms, there is http://www.knoppix.org/
that may be worthwhile to investigate as a basis for a LinuxCNC stick
which then also features the linuxcnc-environment binary and its
dependencies.

Best,
Steffen


On 01.04.22 09:59, Rod Webster wrote:


Jérémie, Phil,

The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation including
how to list the required dependencies,
If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the source.
You can build the .debs and install them.

I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into a VPS
in about 20 minutes.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 16:52, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:


Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer 
a
écrit :


I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and effort is
currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo tech.


That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless 


once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed today. Let's
share the journey mate 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Steffen Möller]

Rod,

On 01.04.22 10:06, Rod Webster wrote:

I can't wait until it gets to Bookworm. I keep checking


It is on me. What the Debian FTPmasters have checked was my initial
build. Now, upon acceptance and with every subsequent update, they want
just the source tarball reuploaded to autobuild themselves. And only
once that happened, we will see the migration to other architectures and
to testing.

At the moment it is only Petter and me who we have the upload privileges
since we are Debian Developers already. Seb, Andy and Jeff will get them
as soon as we all find the time to get GPG-keys signed, it is a bit
tricky since typically this needs personal contacts that do not happen
too much these days. In the interim I happily continue the braindead
parts of maintaining the LinuxCNC package but cannot decide about what
versions are ready to be uploaded for a wider distribution. After all,
LinuxCNC can be deadly.

So, some clear signal would help, like the tagging of another
pre-release (pre1 that is).

Best,
Steffen



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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le ven. 1 avr. 2022 à 10:01, Rod Webster  a écrit :

> Jérémie, Phil,
>
> The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation including
> how to list the required dependencies,
> If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
> https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html



Had forgotten this one, thanks a lot for the reminder 


Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the source.
> You can build the .debs and install them.
>


That's indeed an interesting option as well. Adding it to my belt to carve
the Fine Setup(c)


I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into a VPS
> in about 20 minutes.
>

That is very much encouraging 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

Steffan,
Thanks for that. Its very much appreciated.
The weekend has just begun and I don't have a suitable PC here at home. I
will retest as soon as I can.
I can't wait until it gets to Bookworm. I keep checking

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 18:00, Steffen Möller  wrote:

>
> On 01.04.22 02:48, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:23:46 EDT Rod Webster wrote:
> >>> I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
> >>> without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
> >> I wondered how relevant using an ISO to try before buy was with
> >> VirtuaBox and VMware Player allowing virtual machines.
> >> I thought I'd be smart and see how long it took to install Debian onto
> >> VMware Player. It took 4 minutes to find and install VMNWare player and
> >> 8.5 minutes to install the Bullseye.iso and be at the command prompt
> >>
> >> I then upgraded to unstable (sid) to time an installation Linuxcnc.
> >> This ended badly with broken dependencies:
> >> Depends: python3 (< 3.10) but 3.10.4-1 is to be installed
> >>
> >> Python versions in Debian versions are shown here:
> >> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default=all=any
> >> earchon=names=python3 So until  Linuxcnc-uspace migrates from
> >> Sid (unstable) to Bookworm (testing), all the hard work on getting it
> >> into Debian has been wasted. Unless we change the dependencies to
> >> allow Python3 > 3.9
> >
> > Which is what I've been saying since a few days after bullseye was
> > released with pyhon-3.9.2. So I can't build it on raspios bullseye from
> > git.
>
> In Debian unstable, the default Python was just upgraded to 3.10, so the
> discrepancy between the max version available (3.10) and the default
> python (previously 3.9) is gone and the package compiles out of the box.
>
> The package I uploaded to Debian has a tiny patch that disables the
> search for 3.10, this one:
>
> --- a/src/m4/ax_python.m4
> +++ b/src/m4/ax_python.m4
> @@ -55,7 +55,7 @@
> AC_DEFUN([AX_PYTHON],
> [AC_MSG_CHECKING(for python build information)
> AC_MSG_RESULT([])
> -for python in python3.10 python3.9 python3.8 python3.7 python3.6
> python3.5 python3.4 python3.3 python3.2 python3.1 python3.0 python2.7
> python2.6 python2.5 python2.4 p
> ython2.3 python2.2 python2.1 python; do
> +for python in python3.9 python3.8 python3.7 python3.6 python3.5
> python3.4 python3.3 python3.2 python3.1 python3.0 python2.7 python2.6
> python2.5 python2.4 python2.3 py
> thon2.2 python2.1 python; do
> AC_CHECK_PROGS(PYTHON_BIN, [$python])
> ax_python_bin=$PYTHON_BIN
> if test x$ax_python_bin != x; then
>
> It will take a while until the backports reach bullseye - bookworm is
> first. Would you give it another try?
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Steffen Möller]

On 01.04.22 02:48, gene heskett wrote:

On Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:23:46 EDT Rod Webster wrote:

I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.

I wondered how relevant using an ISO to try before buy was with
VirtuaBox and VMware Player allowing virtual machines.
I thought I'd be smart and see how long it took to install Debian onto
VMware Player. It took 4 minutes to find and install VMNWare player and
8.5 minutes to install the Bullseye.iso and be at the command prompt

I then upgraded to unstable (sid) to time an installation Linuxcnc.
This ended badly with broken dependencies:
Depends: python3 (< 3.10) but 3.10.4-1 is to be installed

Python versions in Debian versions are shown here:
https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default=all=any
earchon=names=python3 So until  Linuxcnc-uspace migrates from
Sid (unstable) to Bookworm (testing), all the hard work on getting it
into Debian has been wasted. Unless we change the dependencies to
allow Python3 > 3.9


Which is what I've been saying since a few days after bullseye was
released with pyhon-3.9.2. So I can't build it on raspios bullseye from
git.


In Debian unstable, the default Python was just upgraded to 3.10, so the
discrepancy between the max version available (3.10) and the default
python (previously 3.9) is gone and the package compiles out of the box.

The package I uploaded to Debian has a tiny patch that disables the
search for 3.10, this one:

--- a/src/m4/ax_python.m4
+++ b/src/m4/ax_python.m4
@@ -55,7 +55,7 @@
AC_DEFUN([AX_PYTHON],
[AC_MSG_CHECKING(for python build information)
AC_MSG_RESULT([])
-for python in python3.10 python3.9 python3.8 python3.7 python3.6
python3.5 python3.4 python3.3 python3.2 python3.1 python3.0 python2.7
python2.6 python2.5 python2.4 p
ython2.3 python2.2 python2.1 python; do
+for python in python3.9 python3.8 python3.7 python3.6 python3.5
python3.4 python3.3 python3.2 python3.1 python3.0 python2.7 python2.6
python2.5 python2.4 python2.3 py
thon2.2 python2.1 python; do
AC_CHECK_PROGS(PYTHON_BIN, [$python])
ax_python_bin=$PYTHON_BIN
if test x$ax_python_bin != x; then

It will take a while until the backports reach bullseye - bookworm is
first. Would you give it another try?

Best,
Steffen


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

Jérémie, Phil,

The RIP build process is clearly explained in the documentation including
how to list the required dependencies,
If you want a shortcut, I would follow this recipe:
https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
Note its not necessary to run linuxcnc as RIP if you compile the source.
You can build the .debs and install them.

I was told you can install the bullseye ISO and build linuxcnc into a VPS
in about 20 minutes.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 16:52, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:

> Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer 
> a
> écrit :
>
> > I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and effort is
> > currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo tech.
>
>
> That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless 
>
>
> once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
> >
>
> Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed today. Let's
> share the journey mate 
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Stefan Freisei Muehlbacher]

Am 01.04.2022 um 08:41 schrieb Jérémie Tarot:

Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:31, andy pugh  a écrit :


On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 21:37, Rod Webster  wrote:


This also should simplify the release as there will be no reason to waste
resources on building ISO's anymore.
eg. 2.8 should be the last ISO released.


I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
(And it isn't all that much effort)


Also not every potential user, at all, may be familiar with Virtualization,
not to mention have VB or VMP already installed.

Plus, even if I agree that it a piece of cake for s/o used to it, just the
words "linux install" is clearly intimidating for the rest of the world,
sadly.

Then, even if it's easy and quite fast, you can't beat sticking a disc in a
toaster and rebooting and... Voilà ! Barely enough to go get an old dram 

Finally, even if I consider switching to manual install, we have to admit
that rebooting straight into an installed linuxcnc box is quite comfortable
and surely a big plus from user experience perspective.

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Hi!

there are already debian live images. Maybe it is worth to create a 
kickstart-script that converts a standard debian-live-iso to a linuxcnc 
live iso.


Good example for a kickstart is

bash <(curl -Sshttps://my-netdata.io/kickstart.sh)

Which fully installs a monitoring-system with one bash line.

Greets from Bavaria.

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:36, Feral Engineer  a
écrit :

> I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and effort is
> currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo tech.


That's gold Phil! Having LinuxCNC brought to schools is priceless 


once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 
>

Should have desk and hopefully dedicated linuxcnc pc installed today. Let's
share the journey mate 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le ven. 1 avr. 2022 à 04:51, Rod Webster  a écrit :

Why on earth do we try and restrict it to using a very narrow range of
> python versions?
> Surely Python 3.x is enough. Makes no sense to me.
>

That was clearly my first thoughts!
But then it seemed to me wrt to struggle of those in charge that there may
be enough differences between Python's point versions that it inflicts that
burden 

I'd love, for better understanding, to hear from those actually fighting
with this to clarify the issue.

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 31 mars 2022 à 23:31, andy pugh  a écrit :

> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 21:37, Rod Webster  wrote:
>
> > This also should simplify the release as there will be no reason to waste
> > resources on building ISO's anymore.
> > eg. 2.8 should be the last ISO released.
> >
>
> I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
> without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
> (And it isn't all that much effort)
>

Also not every potential user, at all, may be familiar with Virtualization,
not to mention have VB or VMP already installed.

Plus, even if I agree that it a piece of cake for s/o used to it, just the
words "linux install" is clearly intimidating for the rest of the world,
sadly.

Then, even if it's easy and quite fast, you can't beat sticking a disc in a
toaster and rebooting and... Voilà ! Barely enough to go get an old dram 

Finally, even if I consider switching to manual install, we have to admit
that rebooting straight into an installed linuxcnc box is quite comfortable
and surely a big plus from user experience perspective.

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

The same happened to me when using Linux MInt where the python version was
< 3.9
Why on earth do we try and restrict it to using a very narrow range of
python versions?
Surely Python 3.x is enough. Makes no sense to me.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 10:48, gene heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:23:46 EDT Rod Webster wrote:
> > >I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
> > >without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
> >
> > I wondered how relevant using an ISO to try before buy was with
> > VirtuaBox and VMware Player allowing virtual machines.
> > I thought I'd be smart and see how long it took to install Debian onto
> > VMware Player. It took 4 minutes to find and install VMNWare player and
> > 8.5 minutes to install the Bullseye.iso and be at the command prompt
> >
> > I then upgraded to unstable (sid) to time an installation Linuxcnc.
> > This ended badly with broken dependencies:
> > Depends: python3 (< 3.10) but 3.10.4-1 is to be installed
> >
> > Python versions in Debian versions are shown here:
> > https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default=all=any
> > earchon=names=python3 So until  Linuxcnc-uspace migrates from
> > Sid (unstable) to Bookworm (testing), all the hard work on getting it
> > into Debian has been wasted. Unless we change the dependencies to
> > allow Python3 > 3.9
>
> Which is what I've been saying since a few days after bullseye was
> released with pyhon-3.9.2. So I can't build it on raspios bullseye from
> git.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 31 March 2022 20:23:46 EDT Rod Webster wrote:
> >I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
> >without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
> 
> I wondered how relevant using an ISO to try before buy was with
> VirtuaBox and VMware Player allowing virtual machines.
> I thought I'd be smart and see how long it took to install Debian onto
> VMware Player. It took 4 minutes to find and install VMNWare player and
> 8.5 minutes to install the Bullseye.iso and be at the command prompt
> 
> I then upgraded to unstable (sid) to time an installation Linuxcnc.
> This ended badly with broken dependencies:
> Depends: python3 (< 3.10) but 3.10.4-1 is to be installed
> 
> Python versions in Debian versions are shown here:
> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default=all=any
> earchon=names=python3 So until  Linuxcnc-uspace migrates from
> Sid (unstable) to Bookworm (testing), all the hard work on getting it
> into Debian has been wasted. Unless we change the dependencies to
> allow Python3 > 3.9
 
Which is what I've been saying since a few days after bullseye was 
released with pyhon-3.9.2. So I can't build it on raspios bullseye from 
git.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

Well, I concede defeat on that.
I did also raise an issue about the broken package on unstable branch.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 10:33, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 01:26, Rod Webster  wrote:
>
> > I wondered how relevant using an ISO to try before buy was with VirtuaBox
> > and VMware Player allowing virtual machines.
>
> Fair point. But then that doesn't let you test the latency in a useful way.
>
> You see those goalposts? I loaded them on a truck...
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 01:26, Rod Webster  wrote:

> I wondered how relevant using an ISO to try before buy was with VirtuaBox
> and VMware Player allowing virtual machines.

Fair point. But then that doesn't let you test the latency in a useful way.

You see those goalposts? I loaded them on a truck...

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

>I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
>without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
I wondered how relevant using an ISO to try before buy was with VirtuaBox
and VMware Player allowing virtual machines.
I thought I'd be smart and see how long it took to install Debian onto
VMware Player. It took 4 minutes to find and install VMNWare player and 8.5
minutes to install the Bullseye.iso and be at the command prompt

I then upgraded to unstable (sid) to time an installation Linuxcnc.
This ended badly with broken dependencies:
Depends: python3 (< 3.10) but 3.10.4-1 is to be installed

Python versions in Debian versions are shown here:
https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default=all=any=names=python3
So until  Linuxcnc-uspace migrates from Sid (unstable) to Bookworm
(testing), all the hard work on getting it into Debian has been wasted.
Unless we change the dependencies to allow Python3 > 3.9




Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 07:30, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 21:37, Rod Webster  wrote:
>
> > This also should simplify the release as there will be no reason to waste
> > resources on building ISO's anymore.
> > eg. 2.8 should be the last ISO released.
> >
>
> I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
> without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
> (And it isn't all that much effort)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Feral Engineer]

I'd also like to just point out that all of your hard work and effort is
currently getting channelled into the young minds at my local vo tech. I've
taken on some retrofit projects with a bunch of students and we're using
LinuxCNC as the basis for all of the machines we're working on. There will
be classicladder involved in at least one of them. Thank you, everyone, for
your years of dedication. I too hope to hop on board the speeding freight
train once I figure out how to configure a RIP build 

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 5:31 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 21:37, Rod Webster  wrote:
>
> > This also should simplify the release as there will be no reason to waste
> > resources on building ISO's anymore.
> > eg. 2.8 should be the last ISO released.
> >
>
> I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
> without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
> (And it isn't all that much effort)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 21:37, Rod Webster  wrote:

> This also should simplify the release as there will be no reason to waste
> resources on building ISO's anymore.
> eg. 2.8 should be the last ISO released.
>

I am not so sure about that, the ISO is useful to "try before you buy"
without committing to wiping the existing OS on the PC.
(And it isn't all that much effort)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Rod Webster]

>I'm suggesting we try to plan a bit better and maybe release more often.

If Linuxcnc is seriously committing to deploy the project using the Debian
repositories
the Linuxcnc release schedule is set for us now by the Debian release
schedule.
New versions should be released just prior to the Debian freeze pending a
new release.
I think that's about every 2 years.
That means now for Debian Bookworm.

This also should simplify the release as there will be no reason to waste
resources on building ISO's anymore.
eg. 2.8 should be the last ISO released.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 00:48, Chris Morley 
wrote:

> I probably didnt make my thoughts clear enough. I didnt mean I dont think
> cl should be updated  I meant it we want to release soon as in a couple
> months then we shouldnt include the updated cl (which is in fact not even
> in master yet) if we wait 6 months then sure let's get it in master soon so
> as to stabilize it. This new version of Classic ladder is a modification of
> an old version of the parent project, but wquite  a jump in versions for
> us. Lots of oportunity for subtle bugs.
>
> Master is relatively stable right now mostly it's just been bug fixes and
> minor updates for quite some time. If we push a bunch of new code in then
> we need to wait quite some time.
>
> We have often done this suddenly pushed lots of code in just before
> release then a month later we need to release a big bug fix and two more
> fairly quickly after. This always left us with a buggy disto CD.
>
> I'm suggesting we try to plan a bit better and maybe release more often.
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Feral Engineer 
> Date: 2022-03-31 7:17 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> To: EMC developers 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release
>
> I love cl and there is definitely a group of us who use it and would like
> to see it updated to the latest release. CL was the reason I started using
> LinuxCNC. Ladder style plc is still widely relevant in commerical CNC
> machines. Fanuc and Mitsubishi controls use it extensively.
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer<
> http://www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer>
>
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer<http://www.patreon.com/theferalengineer>
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 8:27 AM gene heskett  wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, 31 March 2022 03:30:56 EDT andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 06:48, Chris Morley  >
> > wrote:
> > > > I disagree with an update to classicladder in 2.9 (assuming you wish
> > > > to release in less than 6 months)
> > > I haven't been paying full attention, but I was under the impression
> > > that there were problems with the current CL that we ship, related to
> > > Gtk versions?
> >
> > Ack my old wet ram, Andy, Chris, there is/was a problem printing it for
> > your record keeping. I personally haven't used it, tending to have a
> > tendency to do what could be CL stuff in hal. I can't recall anything
> > else but I've seen that warning someplace in the docs since about 2.4, so
> > it looks like it goes back quite a while. With hal, CL seems sorta 1950's
> > to me. The fact that in all this time, I don't recall anyone complaining
> > does lend some evidence that it could probably be dropped. Or at least
> > the possibility discussed just to see whose ox gets gored and screams.
> > OTOH, if its the printing, and it could be easily fixed, I could use it
> > to complete the documentation of my own machines. Notes in the hal files
> > that this signal controls a relay to enable this or that are what I use
> > now. rockhopper doesn't do that sort of stuff at all.
> >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-developers mailing list
> > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > If we desire respe

Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Chris Morley]

I probably didnt make my thoughts clear enough. I didnt mean I dont think cl 
should be updated  I meant it we want to release soon as in a couple months 
then we shouldnt include the updated cl (which is in fact not even in master 
yet) if we wait 6 months then sure let's get it in master soon so as to 
stabilize it. This new version of Classic ladder is a modification of an old 
version of the parent project, but wquite  a jump in versions for us. Lots of 
oportunity for subtle bugs.

Master is relatively stable right now mostly it's just been bug fixes and minor 
updates for quite some time. If we push a bunch of new code in then we need to 
wait quite some time.

We have often done this suddenly pushed lots of code in just before release 
then a month later we need to release a big bug fix and two more fairly quickly 
after. This always left us with a buggy disto CD.

I'm suggesting we try to plan a bit better and maybe release more often.


 Original message 
From: Feral Engineer 
Date: 2022-03-31 7:17 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

I love cl and there is definitely a group of us who use it and would like
to see it updated to the latest release. CL was the reason I started using
LinuxCNC. Ladder style plc is still widely relevant in commerical CNC
machines. Fanuc and Mitsubishi controls use it extensively.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer<http://www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer>

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer<http://www.patreon.com/theferalengineer>

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 8:27 AM gene heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 03:30:56 EDT andy pugh wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 06:48, Chris Morley 
> wrote:
> > > I disagree with an update to classicladder in 2.9 (assuming you wish
> > > to release in less than 6 months)
> > I haven't been paying full attention, but I was under the impression
> > that there were problems with the current CL that we ship, related to
> > Gtk versions?
>
> Ack my old wet ram, Andy, Chris, there is/was a problem printing it for
> your record keeping. I personally haven't used it, tending to have a
> tendency to do what could be CL stuff in hal. I can't recall anything
> else but I've seen that warning someplace in the docs since about 2.4, so
> it looks like it goes back quite a while. With hal, CL seems sorta 1950's
> to me. The fact that in all this time, I don't recall anyone complaining
> does lend some evidence that it could probably be dropped. Or at least
> the possibility discussed just to see whose ox gets gored and screams.
> OTOH, if its the printing, and it could be easily fixed, I could use it
> to complete the documentation of my own machines. Notes in the hal files
> that this signal controls a relay to enable this or that are what I use
> now. rockhopper doesn't do that sort of stuff at all.
>
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-developers mailing list
> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Feral Engineer]

I love cl and there is definitely a group of us who use it and would like
to see it updated to the latest release. CL was the reason I started using
LinuxCNC. Ladder style plc is still widely relevant in commerical CNC
machines. Fanuc and Mitsubishi controls use it extensively.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 8:27 AM gene heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 03:30:56 EDT andy pugh wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 06:48, Chris Morley 
> wrote:
> > > I disagree with an update to classicladder in 2.9 (assuming you wish
> > > to release in less than 6 months)
> > I haven't been paying full attention, but I was under the impression
> > that there were problems with the current CL that we ship, related to
> > Gtk versions?
>
> Ack my old wet ram, Andy, Chris, there is/was a problem printing it for
> your record keeping. I personally haven't used it, tending to have a
> tendency to do what could be CL stuff in hal. I can't recall anything
> else but I've seen that warning someplace in the docs since about 2.4, so
> it looks like it goes back quite a while. With hal, CL seems sorta 1950's
> to me. The fact that in all this time, I don't recall anyone complaining
> does lend some evidence that it could probably be dropped. Or at least
> the possibility discussed just to see whose ox gets gored and screams.
> OTOH, if its the printing, and it could be easily fixed, I could use it
> to complete the documentation of my own machines. Notes in the hal files
> that this signal controls a relay to enable this or that are what I use
> now. rockhopper doesn't do that sort of stuff at all.
>
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-developers mailing list
> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>

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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 31 March 2022 03:30:56 EDT andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 06:48, Chris Morley  
wrote:
> > I disagree with an update to classicladder in 2.9 (assuming you wish
> > to release in less than 6 months)
> I haven't been paying full attention, but I was under the impression
> that there were problems with the current CL that we ship, related to
> Gtk versions?

Ack my old wet ram, Andy, Chris, there is/was a problem printing it for 
your record keeping. I personally haven't used it, tending to have a 
tendency to do what could be CL stuff in hal. I can't recall anything 
else but I've seen that warning someplace in the docs since about 2.4, so 
it looks like it goes back quite a while. With hal, CL seems sorta 1950's 
to me. The fact that in all this time, I don't recall anyone complaining 
does lend some evidence that it could probably be dropped. Or at least 
the possibility discussed just to see whose ox gets gored and screams. 
OTOH, if its the printing, and it could be easily fixed, I could use it 
to complete the documentation of my own machines. Notes in the hal files 
that this signal controls a relay to enable this or that are what I use 
now. rockhopper doesn't do that sort of stuff at all.

> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-developers mailing list
> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 06:48, Chris Morley  wrote:

> I disagree with an update to classicladder in 2.9 (assuming you wish to 
> release in less than 6 months)

I haven't been paying full attention, but I was under the impression
that there were problems with the current CL that we ship, related to
Gtk versions?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Chris Morley]

Yes traditionally hardware drivers are accepted any time.
I did see the colorCNC pull request, but IIRC there was a question asked but 
not answered about it.

I disagree with an update to classicladder in 2.9 (assuming you wish to release 
in less than 6 months)


From: andy pugh 
Sent: March 30, 2022 8:23 PM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 06:38, Chris Morley  wrote:
>
> What things are not in master already that you think might want to be in 2.9?

I don't know, that is why I am trying to start a discussion.

Possibilities that I have thought of since starting to think about it
include the Remora and ColorCNC hardware drivers.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Bojan Topalovski]

These two boards will increase the popularity and cheap option for new
users.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 00:18 andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 06:38, Chris Morley 
> wrote:
> >
> > What things are not in master already that you think might want to be in
> 2.9?
>
> I don't know, that is why I am trying to start a discussion.
>
> Possibilities that I have thought of since starting to think about it
> include the Remora and ColorCNC hardware drivers.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-developers mailing list
> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 06:38, Chris Morley  wrote:
>
> What things are not in master already that you think might want to be in 2.9?

I don't know, that is why I am trying to start a discussion.

Possibilities that I have thought of since starting to think about it
include the Remora and ColorCNC hardware drivers.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[Chris Morley]

What things are not in master already that you think might want to be in 2.9?
If it creates big changes or is complicated it should probably wait to the next 
release.
Or else we should wait (for release) till it's included and has stabilized 
(like 6 months)

If you think we are reasonably close to a release candidate then I think it 
would be better to
make the branch now and set a date. This would motivate people to finish loose 
ends and still allow master to except features without destabilzing 2.9.
We can always delay the date if we get a month out and find we need a bit more.
officially setting a date early is an important step we tend to miss.

Chris



From: andy pugh 
Sent: March 29, 2022 9:15 PM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: [Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

What do we think needs to be in 2.9? And when should it be released?

I think that the Python3 work might be reason enough. What is there
that isn't _quite_ right yet?

I am thinking that having the po4a documentation process working (but
not completed) would be nice. Then we can watch the online translated
docs grow.

Dewey's pluggable TP and homemod is a fun new feature.

We should probably pick a release manager.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-developers] Plan for 2.9 release

[andy pugh]

What do we think needs to be in 2.9? And when should it be released?

I think that the Python3 work might be reason enough. What is there
that isn't _quite_ right yet?

I am thinking that having the po4a documentation process working (but
not completed) would be nice. Then we can watch the online translated
docs grow.

Dewey's pluggable TP and homemod is a fun new feature.

We should probably pick a release manager.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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