[e-users] BUG + repro: mouse out of visible space
At last, after 2 years, I got the repro. E17, ver 0.24.2 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VVaHfQM7buH7gXJrlzUa62uwet55GtLX?usp=sharing (may be deleted after 2 months). The glitch was: some times, I loose the mouse. Only happens when using monitors with different size, with a black zone in the X space. The first minor glitch I found is that when I push the mouse up on center monitor, then, slide right or left, the mouse get stuck in the corner; this does not happen in the bottom corner (monitors are aligned). When monitors are aligned up, then the glitch happens at the bottom. Mouse hangs in the convex corners, not when there is linear continuity. But, this minor glitch is not really ennoying. Just move the mouse one pixel down, and you can go for work. It also happens vertically on the right monitor, when sliding down along the left boder of monitor then down, but, not on the left monitor when going right then down. (not related with the presence of gkrellm). The big bug: What happens more ennoyingly, is when the mouse disapears, and I just found how to repro. Approach the convex visible corner from the middle of the tall monitor, and attack the concave black corner right via the very edge pixel. Then, at this very specific place, the mouse can jump in the void, and disapear in the black zone. I can repro the bug on the right convex corner, but it's harder to do. The mouse also gets out of the void more easily by the right than the left. I do have "shortcuts" associated with mouse being on top (set window full screen) or bottom (set light to max) of monitors. *** Is there a shop for goodies ? I mean an official shop where a part of the payment goes to the fundation. Nearly 20y of use, it's time to buy a T-Shirt ... Yes I know I can upload an E logo to a random tshirt shop if there is no other way ... BTW, after my Paypal Donation, I was redirected to http://enlightenment.fr/ which does not work (probably lacks www). -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E 0.25.3 locking resets dpms to Standby: 11 Suspend: 12 Off: 13
in my config, I can see some values close to the ones I may get after suspend, in Config>Screen>Blanking and Config>Screen>Backlight Those config are claimed to be ignored, because the values are assigned to fields that are disabled, but, maybe some glitch goes to read and use those values dispite the unticked box ... I should not have any interfeerence with other tools. 15y ago I used to mix E with some Gnome and KDE components; but today, my current conf is clean from this kind of mix. I do use DBus, but no funky component should be able to mess E via DBus. 2 years I have this funny glitch after suspend, and never could correlate it with anything in particular. Especially in my case, it does not occur frequently or reliably; it's "some times". The only thing that could be a lead, may be the fact I unplug the power of my laptop during the suspend to ram; that was the best lead I had: go sleep wired to live, unplug, and wakeup without PSU. That increased the probability to a good 30%. I am using Debian, and I probably have the package LaptopTools. Maybe some sysconf catches power-unplug and tries to overwrite X timeouts, and, for some reason, E does not catch them ... (race concurencies). Just thoughts. The glitch is very ennoying, but, the fix was easy. So even if this technically renders the system completely unusable ... I don't class it as critical, cause the fix is just trivial. So, WA it, and forget it. By over scripting / rewraping the sleep command, it could be possible to dump the system (list all process, check APM states) before sleep, just after, and track which process or event could correlate with a DPMS change. Linux is becoming a very complex system, and I don't have time anymore to track the root cause of every single issue. And it may not be E ... But if you do: - rewrap the sleep commands - check if the values after sleep match the E config that should be ignored - try to correlate with any event that could be catched by laptop-tools (sleep by keyboard shortcut to BIOS, sleep by LID, PSU disconnexion, temperatures ... ) On 03/10/2023 23:22, Marc MERLIN wrote: On Tue, Oct 03, 2023 at 08:55:26PM +0200, Benoît-Pierre Demaine wrote: As said earlier, I have a similar issue; my fix was this in .xinitrc . Since that bit of code, I never had the issue again. Issue happens to me when I resume from suspend to ram (not each time, one out of 10). Thanks. I can go into workarounds like this one indeed, but kind of was hoping the root cause would be identified and fixed in E, or somehow a setting I'm missing. -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E 0.25.3 locking resets dpms to Standby: 11 Suspend: 12 Off: 13
As said earlier, I have a similar issue; my fix was this in .xinitrc .
Since that bit of code, I never had the issue again. Issue happens to me
when I resume from suspend to ram (not each time, one out of 10).
{
# Screen timeout and brightness
while true
do
val=$(xset q | grep timeout: | awk '{print $2}' )
[ $val -lt 30 ] && xset s 300
xrandr --output LVDS-1 --brightness 1 # 1 is full, 0 i
slow; 0.5 is medium
echo 4882 >
/sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness # 0 is low, 4882 is max,
600 is medium
sleep 10
export | grep DISPLAY || exit
export | grep DISPLAY || return
done
} &
On 03/10/2023 19:56, Marc MERLIN wrote:
So if there is no solution, should I just stop using the E screensaver
and switch back to xlock?
On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 10:36:15AM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 12:14:21PM +0100, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
Basically I have this problem:
sauron:~$ xset q | tail -4
DPMS (Energy Star):
Standby: 300Suspend: 360Off: 420
DPMS is Enabled
Monitor is On
sauron:~$ enlightenment_remote -desktop-lock
sauron:~$ xset q | tail -4
DPMS (Energy Star):
Standby: 11Suspend: 12Off: 13
DPMS is Enabled
Monitor is On
I looked in the E settings, my blanking timeout is minutes, and my
special timeout when locked is 17 seconds
I cannot find where DPMS 11, 12, 11 comes from.
SNIP
--
>o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/
If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o<
"So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf."
(FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys)
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Re: [e-users] Mouse does not always select window under pointer (xinerama)
* focus: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BS-HXiKLVZoj0x5pMyzq-cquBzgPxjek/view?usp=sharing I had not catched this detail before, because I always move mouse directly over mutually recovering windows, but, if I pass out of decoration, over the background, then, the bug does not occur. The bug is not specific to those terms; also happens with Thunderbird composition, Firefox ... Systematic, 100% repro. * mouse lost in void Very rare; a few times a month. Ticked the disable option; will see. On 05/04/2023 18:47, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 16:40:57 +0200 Benoît-Pierre Demaine said: Hello. I am not going to stay subscribed to this ML after my issue is solved. Using E17 since ... almost 17 or 18y ? and I had always set it to select window under the pointer. Always worked fine, whatever the monitor count. Since my last installation (december 2021) there is an edge case where it does not. When I have several monitors, windows belongs to right monitor, extended to both, covers a windows on left monitor, and move cursor from the pure left window, to the win that covers both monitor. In this specific case, the larg window is selected for an instant, then loses focus. This is ennoying because to focus the win, I can't just move the cursor 100 pixels, I have to move it to the other monitor ... far far far away. This prevents me using small touchpad/trackpoint for focus change. Is it a bug, or a configuration issue ? How to fix ? this smells like a bug but i'd like to see a video of it to be sure. *** I also happen to loose the cursor from time to time; that bug had been existing 15y ago for window placement and window move, and a specific feature had been added to fix it "window recovery"; the feature had been later removed because the core code became solid enough to never let the issue happen again. But now, I have it with the cursor: when monitors don't have the same size, it may happen, a few times a day, that moving the cursor from the bigger monitor, to the smaller one, via the "step", traps the cursor into the black zone. Never could find a good repro; and it's pretty hard to liberate the mouse out of the prison. But sometimes, the cursor get trapped outside of the visible space, in the VOID. this shouldn't happen - e does set screen boundaries/limits to stop this from happening. you could try disable pointer warping/moving in focus setting sin case its a pointer warp that does it? -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Mouse does not always select window under pointer (xinerama)
On 08/04/2023 10:44, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 00:19:28 +0200 Benoît-Pierre Demaine said: * focus: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BS-HXiKLVZoj0x5pMyzq-cquBzgPxjek/view?usp=sharing waaait - what version of e is that? Took me 3 days to find: - not said in --version - in ABOUT, it's not in the text, but top right corner; took me 3 days to see it. 0.24.2 -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Mouse does not always select window under pointer (xinerama)
Hello. I am not going to stay subscribed to this ML after my issue is solved. Using E17 since ... almost 17 or 18y ? and I had always set it to select window under the pointer. Always worked fine, whatever the monitor count. Since my last installation (december 2021) there is an edge case where it does not. When I have several monitors, windows belongs to right monitor, extended to both, covers a windows on left monitor, and move cursor from the pure left window, to the win that covers both monitor. In this specific case, the larg window is selected for an instant, then loses focus. This is ennoying because to focus the win, I can't just move the cursor 100 pixels, I have to move it to the other monitor ... far far far away. This prevents me using small touchpad/trackpoint for focus change. Is it a bug, or a configuration issue ? How to fix ? *** I also happen to loose the cursor from time to time; that bug had been existing 15y ago for window placement and window move, and a specific feature had been added to fix it "window recovery"; the feature had been later removed because the core code became solid enough to never let the issue happen again. But now, I have it with the cursor: when monitors don't have the same size, it may happen, a few times a day, that moving the cursor from the bigger monitor, to the smaller one, via the "step", traps the cursor into the black zone. Never could find a good repro; and it's pretty hard to liberate the mouse out of the prison. But sometimes, the cursor get trapped outside of the visible space, in the VOID. -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Chrome not restarting on same monitors
Yup ... but , it depends on your exact X conf. Also, details may not
work for a few months when some code got broken. I am using 6 monitors
since 20 years. The first CRITICAL detail is that you MUST be using
xinerama: all monitors must be using independant desktops. This will
break big chinks of 3D accemeration.
Then, right clik on decoration of window (or ALT + right click if no
decoration at all), Windows submenu, and, play with Remebers and Locks.
It may take hours/days to find the details you want.
I usually start by locking position, size, and REMEMBER THESE LOCKS
against system; then, lock MAXIMISED state against user.
Then in remember, identifier is usually good for most apps (I said
MOST), and now in properties you are looking for VIRTUAL DSKTOP and
CURRENT SCREEN (+ position, size, locks).
E17 was historically the first DM that handeled win pref and remember
correctly (17y ago).
I have 8 desktops per monitor. The systray is about identical on all 3
monitors; Gkerllm sticks to one monitor over all desktops; and
restarting windows works just fine. Note that if apps are started via
.xinitrc before E, then E will catch windows and replace them correctly.
You can also launch apps via the E app manager, and tick "start app at
startup", or tick "restart app with E" in the remember properties.
Sometimes, doing an e hotrestart may restart them, ending in double
cessions. But ... you WILL break remembers if monitors are hotplugs. I
am having the issue on my laptop: if the monitor is detected by X after
E has started, then, app at startup are relocated on may monitor. There
are two ways to fix this:
- in .xinitrc , add a delay between start of X and start of E, so that X
has time to detect all your monitors before launching E
- in .xinitrc let E start, NOT ask E to start these apps, and, in
.xinitrc , before starting E, do something like { sleep 60 ; StartMyApp
; } & , so that E is allowed to start immediately, and app opens only
when E has detected all monitors.
My E (build 2y ago) does not support delaying apps after launch, or
conditionnal launch. It could be a nice feature, but they will probably
never implement this, as in most case it can be easily WA via .xinitrc .
So, yes, your simple question has a quiet complex answer ... and this is
not 1% of my knowledge about Xinerama.
<3 E
On 13/07/2023 14:59, Jon Craig wrote:
So, I have a 3-monitor setup, and I keep a Chrome window on the right side
monitor with certain tabs open and another Chrome window on the left side
monitor with certain other tabs. The center monitor is for
terminal/Intellj IDEA/etc. When I close Chrome or log out and back in, and
restart Chrome, the correct 2 Chrome windows open with the correct tabs,
but they both end up on the center monitor instead of where they were when
they closed.
This behavior doesn't occur under other WMs/DE's.
Any ideas here?
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>o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/
If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o<
"So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf."
(FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys)
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Re: [e-users] Where is the default background?!?!!?
I started using DR16 before 2005. And DR17, I forgot when exactly, but way before 2010 (probably first sucessfull compile in 2006 or 2007). Still using DR16 in many environments like VNC or VirtualBox because it's much faster to setup, and easier to clone conf FOR ME. So I am almost a 20y E user. It was PITA to get a working DR17 before 2010, but it was worth the effort. Never could get transparency work properly (got it for a few months, but was hugely unstable); probably related with the fact I never could properly setup my 3D card (which could be a consequence of my heavy use of Xinerama, or having never less than 3 videos cards from 2 different brands). E fits my needs; DR17 for daily desktop, DR16 for special uses. It's fluent, reliable, discreet, does not consume screen space, does not consume CPU, little RAM, can be hot restarted (internal menus) when it bugs; can be warm restarted in some case kill -SIGSEGV. Ocasionally, some keyboard shortcuts may conflict with some app shortcuts, and very often with VirtualBox. If those conflicts become frequent and ennoying, you can easily redefine them in conf menus. I have issues with DBUS, but it's probably due to the way I initiate X. After exporting system env variables proerly, and at the right place (in ~/.xinitrc before starting E) , it works better. E have always been better than other DM to remember windows placement at launch (this is critical with Xinerama), and launch X apps at system start. But since I have not tried any other DM or WM since over 17 years ... Also noticed that E properly relocates windows if xinitrc started other end user apps before E itself. It may fail to relocate some windows in some edge cases (launching the same app several times, producing several windows with identical name ... may confuse E after hot or warm restart; relocate them manually, and next cold restart will be fine - happens only when E has to perform a hot or warm restart related woth an OOM, or heavy memory corruction due to Firefox or OpenOffice eating all RAM or corrupting the allocator). PS: I tend to put my desktop to sleep at night; so I usually have a 1 to 3 months uptime. Firefox and OOo tend to get memory issues after 4 to 8 weeks of continuous work. On 05/07/2023 11:54, Jon Craig wrote: Thank you! :) BTW, I was so happy to learn E is still "a thing!" I used it ages and ages ago when it was more "talked about" and known. Recently switched to Linux fulltime and decided to see if I could find E and try to get it running, only to learn it's still in active development and easy to install from the main repo. :D -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] can not modify keys; xmodmap get cancelled
Hello. E17 0.24.2
I am trying to modify some keys, and after more than 4h, here is my point:
$ xmodmap -v -pke | grep -e comma -e 194 ; echo A ; xmodmap -pke -e
"keycode 58 = comma question comma question" -e "keycode 194 = comma"
| grep -e 58 -e 194 ; echo B ; xmodmap -v -pke | grep -e comma -e 194
; sleep 1 ; echo C ; xmodmap -v -pke | grep -e comma -e 194
keycode 58 = comma question comma question dead_acute
dead_doubleacute dead_acute
keycode 194 = XF86Launch7 NoSymbol XF86Launch7
A
keycode 58 = comma question comma question
keycode 158 = XF86WWW NoSymbol XF86WWW
keycode 194 = comma NoSymbol comma
B
keycode 58 = comma question comma question dead_acute
dead_doubleacute dead_acute
keycode 194 = XF86Launch7 NoSymbol XF86Launch7
C
keycode 58 = comma question comma question dead_acute
dead_doubleacute dead_acute
keycode 194 = XF86Launch7 NoSymbol XF86Launch7
Also, in the terminal running xev, I see a lot of
MappingNotify event, serial 317, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
request MappingKeyboard, first_keycode 8, count 248
I have also tried to use the Settings>input>KeyBindigs, and assign
"sleep 0.18 ; xdotool key parenright" ; hitting the key produces a
FocusOut event, thus the need for a sleep, to inject the key after the
focus regain, but this has a very low reliability.
Using xmodmap, keys are immediately rebinded to default, withint less
than 1s.
I have tried to untick both X11 basics in Settings>Apps>DesktopEnv; no gain.
Didn't found anything relevant in Settings>Language>Input Method.
*=> how to get xmodmap modifications not get cancelled within micro
seconds ?*
I have bought a Bluetooth digipad, and since it lacks some features, I
want to reassign XF86Launch7(194) to comma. And few other similar things.
ChatGPT tried to make me use xkb, but the commands all failed:
$ xkbcomp -w 0 - <<< 'xkb_keymap { xkb_keycodes { = [ comma,
less ]; }; };' $DISPLAY
Errors encountered in stdin; not compiled.
$ xkbcomp -w 0 - <<< 'xkb_keymap { xkb_keycodes { 194 = [ comma, less
]; }; };' $DISPLAY
Errors encountered in stdin; not compiled.
--
>o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP)http://benoit.demaine.info/
If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o<
"So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf."
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Re: [e-users] error on statically linked programs that use imlib2 static libraries
You need to build with debug symbols, and run in debugger. Nobody can help you with that few infos. On 26/07/2023 20:36, ruivlea via enlightenment-users wrote: hello, i tried to statically build programs (scrot and nsxiv) that use imlib2. They can be built. But unusable. *scrot: % scrot -s scrot: Saving to file 2023-07-26-181818_137x107_scrot.png failed *nsxiv: % nsxiv /home/ruivlea/downloads/sample-1.gif nsxiv: /home/ruivlea/downloads/sample-1.gif: Error opening image nsxiv: no more files to display, aborting tried open png and jpg, same result. But both scrot and nsxiv usable and works well if shared linked. is imlib2 designed only for shared linked programs? or is there a bug on imlib2 static libraries? ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E 0.25.3 locking resets dpms to Standby: 11 Suspend: 12 Off: 13
I have a similar problem sometimes when I come out from suspend to RAM, my sleep time gets set to 10s instead of 600. About once a month. Never could track it. On 11/08/2023 22:43, Marc MERLIN wrote: Basically I have this problem: sauron:~$ xset q | tail -4 DPMS (Energy Star): Standby: 300Suspend: 360Off: 420 DPMS is Enabled Monitor is On sauron:~$ enlightenment_remote -desktop-lock sauron:~$ xset q | tail -4 DPMS (Energy Star): Standby: 11Suspend: 12Off: 13 DPMS is Enabled Monitor is On I looked in the E settings, my blanking timeout is minutes, and my special timeout when locked is 17 seconds I cannot find where DPMS 11, 12, 11 comes from. I have to keep resetting it after I unlock, with sauron:~$ xset dpms 311 312 313 Any ideas? Thanks, Marc -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Capitole du Libre 2023
I am living in Toulouse, I can help on hardware and pratical aspects (driving, bringing stuff, building stands, looking after stuff; can NOT host people), but I am not E dev, and can not talk. I have experience in organising this kind of event (Lan Party, Techno Parade); I am not willing to organise or manage this one, but I can help and obey. On 09/08/2023 09:57, guillaume-...@gasnier.me wrote: Hello EFL users, for its new edition, the Capitole du Libre will take place on Saturday 18 and Sunday 19 November 2023 in Toulouse, France. It's a french event around free software, open hardware and free culture. It's organized by Toulibre and hosted by INP-ENSEEIHT, a state-funded School of Engineering. Talks, workshops and demonstrations targeted developers or general public as well are taking place during the week-end. Booths are organized in "associative village" and approximately 1500 persons visited us. Entrance is of course free during the week-end. The Call for Participation is opened. And actually, French and English talks are accepted. https://cfp.capitoledulibre.org/cdl-2023/cfp This page that gives information about the event is only in French, sorry. If the EFL community would like to be represented during the event or/and would like to make some presentations, don't hesitate to contact us at contact capitoledulibre.org in English or in french :) Regards, Guillaume GASNIER for Capitole du Libre ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- >o_/ DEMAINE Benoît-Pierre (aka DoubleHP) http://benoit.demaine.info/ If computing were an exact science, IT engineers would'nt have work \_o< "So all that's left, Is the proof that love's not only blind but deaf." (FAKE TALES OF SAN FRANCISCO, Arctic Monkeys) ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
