Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trying to get more performance out of the 3Dclouds!
Hi Stuart, On Saturday, December 17, 2011 20:14:22 you wrote: I've committed the code changes to my repository clones for the impostors, some configuration for LoD nodes, and having a geometry per cloud, with a bubble sort for ordering. It would be fantastic if people could take the time to cherry-pick these commits and see if it makes any performance difference for them. I anticipate the biggest difference being to 3D clouds generated by Global Weather, as those clouds tend to have more sprites than the Local Weather equivalents. Good to see! And in fact without testing too much I think we are on the right track. Just starting and comparing the frame rates with and without the changes gives a 3x performance boost on my setup! Well, I have started the default fgfs at LOWI with the world scenery tiles and switched on and off the 3d clouds. This is no reproducible benchmark but at least a very good sign. So, since you do not see that huge differences, it appears that your 3D driver draws way faster than mine :) For reference, what os/gpu/driver do you use? The rule is really to call as few gl functions as possible. That is do a scene that feeds all in huge batches doing just the same. And keep in mind that there is a cutoff point - mostly higher than thought at the first moment - where it gets more work on the GPU where it starts to make sense to split these batches in halfes... Just having a very quick look over the code: You still have a normal array that has 4 entries and that is set to BIND_OVERALL which makes the shader get in the end only the first member for every vertex it processes. This makes me believe that the normal is no longer used? If so, just omit the normal array completely and set the binding to OFF (I believe it is called OFF). I think this should work. Greetings Mathias -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
Shaders in C++ code (CameraGroup.*xx, renderer.cxx, and in the effect code in SG - maybe I will revert that). But the ultimate goal is to make them configurable. All effects would have to be rewritten because the renderer have very specialized stages. I began writing something about the project here : http://wiki.flightgear.org/Project_Rembrandt Sources are in my gitorious clones, under the 'project/rembrandt' branches (the few data I changed still need to be pushed) Regards, -Fred - Mail original - De: Fernando García Liñán fernando.ga...@gmail.com À: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé: Samedi 17 Décembre 2011 22:15:00 Objet: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt I will be glad to do so! Looks like an interesting project. But I still don't get what are you tweaking. The C++ code, shaders, effects? Or is it a completly new SGSubsystem? 2011/12/17 Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr blockquote You may want to contribute to the project /blockquote -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
Hi Fred, On Sunday, December 18, 2011 09:37:04 Frederic Bouvier wrote: Shaders in C++ code (CameraGroup.*xx, renderer.cxx, and in the effect code in SG - maybe I will revert that). But the ultimate goal is to make them configurable. All effects would have to be rewritten because the renderer have very specialized stages. I began writing something about the project here : http://wiki.flightgear.org/Project_Rembrandt Sources are in my gitorious clones, under the 'project/rembrandt' branches (the few data I changed still need to be pushed) Great! This is on my todo list for a long time now! We defintely need this multi pass rendering approach! Many thanks for looking into this!!! Mathias -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI traffic off?
On Sat, 2011-12-17 at 17:35 +0200, thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote: Does anyone know how to switch AI traffic off? I edited preferences.xml and autosave to verify that it's set to false, I checked /sim/ai-traffic/enabled to be 'false' - and yet tons of messages still pass my screen about AI aircraft starting up. Turning off only sound effects for AIModels is done using /sim/sound/aimodels/enabled=false Erik -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
Now I get it. Was looking for that type of rendering for a long time ago. Good luck! Cheers. On 18/12/11 09:37, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Shaders in C++ code (CameraGroup.*xx, renderer.cxx, and in the effect code in SG - maybe I will revert that). But the ultimate goal is to make them configurable. All effects would have to be rewritten because the renderer have very specialized stages. I began writing something about the project here : http://wiki.flightgear.org/Project_Rembrandt Sources are in my gitorious clones, under the 'project/rembrandt' branches (the few data I changed still need to be pushed) Regards, -Fred *De: *Fernando García Liñán fernando.ga...@gmail.com *À: *FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net *Envoyé: *Samedi 17 Décembre 2011 22:15:00 *Objet: *Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt I will be glad to do so! Looks like an interesting project. But I still don't get what are you tweaking. The C++ code, shaders, effects? Or is it a completly new SGSubsystem? 2011/12/17 Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr mailto:fredfgf...@free.fr You may want to contribute to the project -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
Hi Mathias, - Mail original - De: Mathias Fröhlich Hi Fred, On Sunday, December 18, 2011 09:37:04 Frederic Bouvier wrote: Shaders in C++ code (CameraGroup.*xx, renderer.cxx, and in the effect code in SG - maybe I will revert that). But the ultimate goal is to make them configurable. All effects would have to be rewritten because the renderer have very specialized stages. I began writing something about the project here : http://wiki.flightgear.org/Project_Rembrandt Sources are in my gitorious clones, under the 'project/rembrandt' branches (the few data I changed still need to be pushed) Great! This is on my todo list for a long time now! We definitely need this multi pass rendering approach! Many thanks for looking into this!!! Your patronage will be welcome. Regards, -Fred -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trying to get more performance out of the 3Dclouds!
On Sat, 2011-12-17 at 19:14 +, Stuart Buchanan wrote: As I said previously, I'm not seeing massive changes in frame-rates with these changes. On my system, running the c172p from KLVK I get 30 fps with 2D clouds and 28-29fps with 3D clouds. However, the draw time presented by the on-screen OSG statistics appears to have dropped. Same here; little difference between these settings but I have fairly decent video hardware (37fps with 3D clouds and 52fps with 2D clouds) using the stormy Monday setup. Erik -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Maritime traffic
On Saturday, December 17, 2011 23:19:16 Stuart Buchanan wrote:
Great work Adrian,
I had something similar working in January - I think I posted
something to this list. My system used an AI scenario to
create a number of ships, and then used a perl script to
query www.marinetraffic.com using the current lon/lat and
write to the property tree the lon/lat speed and heading of
all the ships in a given radius. The difficult thing I found was
that the AIS information wasn't sampled frequently enough.
Let me know if you'd like the scripts and XML I wrote, and I'll
dig them out for you.
To be honest, I was never very happy with my implementation -
it was a bit of a hack. I'd be very interested to hear about the details
of yours, and I'm sure you've thought of something much better!
The ideal might be to push the shipping data onto the MP network,
but the amount of shipping data would swamp our current MP aircraft
numbers :)
-Stuart
Hi Stuart,
I didn't know about you attempt. Your method is probably more advanced, since
I'm just using static data, placing models with a Nasal script executed in the
debug console. I'm not sure if dynamic traffic could be done properly, but
maybe storing at least two points for each ship at any time and moving it
between them at the speed reported through AIS may be a solution. Though, I'm
don't know how useful people would find this, and how much of a performance
hit it would be.
Anyway, I'm attaching the Nasal script I used. The data is just a text file,
containing the type of vessel, position, speed and course. I can send that to
you too, if you want, but it's too large to send to the list.
Cheers,
Adrian
var lat = getprop('/position/latitude-deg');
var lon = getprop('/position/longitude-deg');
var lat_max = lat + 0.5;
var lat_min = lat - 0.5;
var lon_max = lon + 0.5;
var lon_min = lon - 0.5;
var path = getprop(/sim/fg-root) ~ /Nasal/aisdata2.txt;
print( path);
var file = io.readfile(path);
var file_lines = [[]];
var current_word = ;
for (var i = 0; i size(file); i += 1)
{
var char = substr(file, i, 1);
if (char == , or char == \n)
{
append(file_lines[size(file_lines) - 1], current_word);
current_word = ;
if (char == \n) append(file_lines, []);
}
else
{
current_word ~= char;
}
}
foreach(var line; file_lines)
{
var model = ;
if(line[0]==1)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Civilian/MediumFerry.xml;
}
if(line[0]==2)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Civilian/ContainerShip.xml;
}
if(line[0]==3)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Civilian/CruiseShip.xml;
}
if(line[0]==4)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Civilian/Tanker_sailing.xml;
}
if(line[0]==5)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Civilian/Trawler.xml;
}
if(line[0]==6)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Civilian/SailBoatUnderSail.xml;
}
if(line[0]==7)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Civilian/LargeTrawler.xml;
}
if(line[0]==0)
{
model = Models/Maritime/Misc/MarkerBuoy.xml;
}
#var heading = rand() * 360;
var lat_ok =0;
var lon_ok =0;
var height =0;
if(line[3]==0)
{
height=-1;
}
#print(line[0]);
if( (line[2] = lat_max) and (line[2] = lat_min))
{
lat_ok =1;
}
if( (line[1] = lon_max) and (line[1] = lon_min))
{
lon_ok =1;
}
if(lat_ok ==1 and lon_ok==1)
{
#print(line[0]);
geo.put_model(model, line[2], line[1], 0, line[4]);
}
}
--
Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011
Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for
developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it
provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online.
Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 5:06 AM, Patrick Callahan wrote: What can be said about the flight dynamics of the C172P model? Is it accurate? If not, how could it be improved? It's currently got a 3 rating. It matches some of the PoH numbers (cruise speed, rate of climb) for an aircraft fitted with a cruise prop rather than a climb prop. IIRC the stall is too low and the slide-slip behaviour is incorrect. Certainly the FDM would benefit from some TLC, but it requires someone with a bit of JSBSim knowledge, or the time to learn, and ideally someone with some time in the 172 who can compare it to the real thing. The two people don't necessarily have to be the same person, though they'd probably have to work quite closely together. -Stuart -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement
Patrick Callahan wrote: What can be said about the flight dynamics of the C172P model? Is it accurate? If not, how could it be improved? The response varies _much_ depending on whom you ask :-) Personally I'm quite confident with FlightGear's flight dynamics, but there's always room for improvement and if you know someone who's flying the real one (maybe you're evn doing yourself), take a stopwatch, pen and paper and record climb rates at certain weather conditions and power settings and the like. Note that there are many, many different variants of the real one, therefore claims like it climbs too fast might be rather moot the smaller the deviation gets, because it depends much on the weight (which might depend a lot on the installed equipment) and the condition of the aircraft. Just an idea - cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trying to get more performance out of the 3Dclouds!
2011/12/18 Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Good to see! And in fact without testing too much I think we are on the right track. Just starting and comparing the frame rates with and without the changes gives a 3x performance boost on my setup! Excellent. So, since you do not see that huge differences, it appears that your 3D driver draws way faster than mine :) For reference, what os/gpu/driver do you use? I've got a NVidia GT260M with 1GB of memory, on Ubuntu 10.4, using the NVidia 195.36.24 driver. Due to a NVidia PowerMizer bug it only runs at 275MHz rather than 550MHz. Just having a very quick look over the code: You still have a normal array that has 4 entries and that is set to BIND_OVERALL which makes the shader get in the end only the first member for every vertex it processes. This makes me believe that the normal is no longer used? If so, just omit the normal array completely and set the binding to OFF (I believe it is called OFF). I think this should work. Correct, we don't use the normal. I'll make that change and re-test. One question for the release managers: Do performance improvements such as these count as bug fixes or features? Should we try to get this into the 2.6.0 release, or wait until 2.8.0? -Stuart -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trying to get more performance out of the 3Dclouds!
On 18 Dec 2011, at 11:06, Stuart Buchanan wrote: One question for the release managers: Do performance improvements such as these count as bug fixes or features? Should we try to get this into the 2.6.0 release, or wait until 2.8.0? I think the answer is 'it depends', but given that you have been working on the code in a branch (when equivalent hacking could easily have taken place in next/ ), and are at the point of 'it's basically done, needs testing', *and* it makes a major difference for at least some people, I'd be inclined to cherry-pick it in early next week. (We can always roll it back, and it doesn't impact aircraft compatibility either way) However, that's only my opinion. James -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement
Martin Spott wrote: Note that there are many, many different variants of the real one, therefore claims like it climbs too fast might be rather moot the smaller the deviation gets, because it depends much on the weight (which might depend a lot on the installed equipment) and the condition of the aircraft. assuming that you're always flying with the same amount of fuel and pilot/passenger weight ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trying to get more performance out of the 3Dclouds!
Hi, On Sunday, December 18, 2011 12:06:22 Stuart Buchanan wrote: One question for the release managers: Do performance improvements such as these count as bug fixes or features? Should we try to get this into the 2.6.0 release, or wait until 2.8.0? Given that you have already prepared this for some time now, I would tend to accept this '1 day too late' change. Also, looking at the changes these look pretty straight forward. So, I vould vote for an exception in this case. Mathias -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement
Am 18.12.2011 12:02, schrieb Martin Spott: Personally I'm quite confident with FlightGear's flight dynamics, but there's always room for improvement and if you know someone who's flying the real one (maybe you're evn doing yourself), take a stopwatch, pen and paper and record climb rates at certain weather conditions and power settings and the like. I used these a lot for tuning the Seneca's FDM: http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182410-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182418-1.html Torsten -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] deteriorating cull performance kills fps
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Csaba Halász csaba.hal...@gmail.com wrote: I know this information is very sketchy right now, and I will be performing more tests Ok, I have done various test flights, the most recent in the ufo with all eye candy disabled, and the problem persists. At the end of an EGCC-EDDF flight (mimicking the flight profile of the concorde), my cull time was up to 22ms limiting fps to about 20. Simply restarting at the same place, cull time was around 4ms with fps in excess of 50. I am puzzled ... and annoyed ;) Also a different issue: I seem to recall there was a golden era when model loading was nicely done in the background, not causing severe stuttering in the display. Nowadays if I look around the scene, FG freezes for seconds at a time. -- Csaba/Jester -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Hi John, if you're still wondering what it is about, this video can help : http://youtu.be/peEzEapavkg VERY nice! Is there a way to make the same shadow effects apply to aircraft as well? g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
o De: Gene Buckle On Sun, 18 Dec 2011, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Hi John, if you're still wondering what it is about, this video can help : http://youtu.be/peEzEapavkg VERY nice! Is there a way to make the same shadow effects apply to aircraft as well? It applies also for aircraft, and for relief as well. Why do you thing it could be differently ? My implementation is very different from the one that was implemented in FG 1.0 Regards, -Fred -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011, Frederic Bouvier wrote: o De: Gene Buckle On Sun, 18 Dec 2011, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Hi John, if you're still wondering what it is about, this video can help : http://youtu.be/peEzEapavkg VERY nice! Is there a way to make the same shadow effects apply to aircraft as well? It applies also for aircraft, and for relief as well. Why do you thing it could be differently ? My implementation is very different from the one that was implemented in FG 1.0 I didn't know - my graphics knowledge is _very_ limited. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-commitlogs] SimGear branch, next, updated. 54db2e0ab196b659e4297c0d93f088b2212409f5
On 18 Dec 2011, at 16:44, Flightgear-commitlogs wrote: #479: avoid issues due to trailing path separators Cut trailing separators when converting from string to sgpath. Also, SGPath::fix does NOT replace :. It only replaces \ with /, so the i!=1 check for Windows made no sense (rule #9: never believe a source code comment). Ah, but it used too, until I removed the Mac OS *9* supporting code :) Mac pre OS-X used ':' as the path separator. James -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-commitlogs] SimGear branch, next, updated. 54db2e0ab196b659e4297c0d93f088b2212409f5
Am 18.12.2011 20:13, schrieb James Turner: On 18 Dec 2011, at 16:44, Flightgear-commitlogs wrote: (rule #9: never believe a source code comment). Ah, but it used too, until I removed the Mac OS *9* supporting code :) Yes, I guessed it was some copypaste issue or some left-over. Actually reminded me of something (much worse) I recently found in a RL code review: // set flag to 1 SomeObject.SomeFunction.Flag = 0; ... the most useless comment ever - yet plain wrong at the same time. :) cheers, Thorsten -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trying to get more performance out of the 3Dclouds!
One question for the release managers: Do performance improvements such as these count as bug fixes or features? Should we try to get this into the 2.6.0 release, or wait until 2.8.0? For me, 3d clouds are currently mostly unusable. If this cures the issue, I'd call it a fix. However, the feature-freeze is for preparing a mostly stable (not necessarily perfect) codebase, so please decide yourself: Does it need extensive testing? Does it interfere with other systems? Does it have the potential to raise additional issues? Does it have the potential to endanger the release schedule? What do you think? If you feel OK, so do I. Torsten -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
Is there a way to make the same shadow effects apply to aircraft as well? It applies also for aircraft, and for relief as well. Why do you thing it could be differently ? My implementation is very different from the one that was implemented in FG 1.0 I didn't know - my graphics knowledge is _very_ limited. :) http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/project_rembrandt_2.png http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/project_rembrandt_3.png Admittedly, something should be done to increase shadow map resolution near the viewer. I have ideas on how to do that, but it's for another day ;) Regards, -Fred -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Trying to get more performance out of the 3Dclouds!
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: One question for the release managers: Do performance improvements such as these count as bug fixes or features? Should we try to get this into the 2.6.0 release, or wait until 2.8.0? For me, 3d clouds are currently mostly unusable. If this cures the issue, I'd call it a fix. However, the feature-freeze is for preparing a mostly stable (not necessarily perfect) codebase, so please decide yourself: Does it need extensive testing? Possibly. In particular, the Impostor changes will increase the memory requirements and may have some graphics-card specific behaviour I'm not aware of. One way to address this might be to default the /sim/rendering/clouds3d-use-impostors to false, which will default to the previous behaviour (e.g. LoD nodes rather than Impostors), while retaining the geometry changes that are less controversial. Does it interfere with other systems? No. Does it have the potential to raise additional issues? There's a stability risk from the Impostors, as these are new OSG constructs we've not used before, and which AFAICT aren't commonly used elsewhere. Does it have the potential to endanger the release schedule? No. The changes are self-contained and could be easily backed out at any point. What do you think? I suggest we default the impostors to be switched off by default. That's a trivial change to line 72 of cloudfield.cxx. I don't know if that impacts the perf improvements that Matthias is seeing. I'm also happy to have this left until after the 2.6.0 release. -Stuart -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] cessna c172p cockpit (2) + ambient light level.
Hi Everybody,thank you for all your replies. I have downloaded and compiled 2.4.0 from the website. I have cloned fgdata on my local machine. Until I compile 2.5.0 from git, I am cheating by using the data from 2.4.0 + symlinks to the c127p and Instruments-3d folders from fgdata from git. I don't know how evil that is, but this is only temporary. The good news is that I haven't seen any duplicate work done on the new cockpit. There is a new EGT instrument. I will punch a hole in the panel geometry for it. I have a question regarding the amount of ambient light. It seems to have changed a lot since 1.9.1. This is particularly obvious when flying towards the sun. On my monitor, with a gamma close to 2.2, the panel and the instruments are getting hard to read. This will not be a problem with glass cockpits. I imagine the sky + skydome illumination model has been modified improve realism on the landscape. Please look at this screengrab, and click on the following one:https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/T1tLqlebp0PPJRdQDXXZ8LtBKth8brfvXTX_6GVpOLg I saw a post by Curtis Olson regarding non-illuminated sides of materials, but the Cessna materials ambient values don't seem wrong.http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=24093698 Please let me know your comments.ThanksStephan. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
That's the main reason of why I prefer shadow volumes, they are much more efficient in big scenes. Cascaded shadow maps can make a lot here, I would try implementing them before going into more issues. But still looks awesome, I think it is time for helijah to remove all his aircrafts' shadows. ;) Cheers. On 18/12/11 21:54, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Is there a way to make the same shadow effects apply to aircraft as well? It applies also for aircraft, and for relief as well. Why do you thing it could be differently ? My implementation is very different from the one that was implemented in FG 1.0 I didn't know - my graphics knowledge is _very_ limited. :) http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/project_rembrandt_2.png http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/project_rembrandt_3.png Admittedly, something should be done to increase shadow map resolution near the viewer. I have ideas on how to do that, but it's for another day ;) Regards, -Fred -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-commitlogs] TerraGear / Custom Scenery branch,
Hi Martin, I think I see the cause. It looks like sometimes, when a low priority landclass is clipped against the already accumulated thin polys like roads and steams, there could be a section that isn't removed (so only 1 region is created when there should be 2). Because the road region is still added to the triangulation, and crosses the lower priority landclass, the inside point only works for one of the regions. I showed a bit how this looks in qgis on the forum. the picture shows that a 'hole' contour actually separates the two sides of the road. of course, calc_points_inside only generates 1 point per non-hole contour, so only 1 resulting regions will have the material attribute. Cleaning up the polys after clipping, and before triangulation seems to help, but of course will not be 100% effective. Pete On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.netwrote: Hi Peter, Flightgear-commitlogs wrote: It doesn't crash, but sometimes, polygons lose their material. I think fixing that should be easier than the endless massaging of data to keep good looking data. According to my/our (Ralf's and mine) experience loosing the material type was usually caused by the point-in-polygon droppping the centroid into the wrong polygon. The terragear-cs history contains a 'robust' point-in-polygon routine by Ralf Gerlich which might me worth investigating. But there's a price to pay because the mentioned method might drop the centroid into areas of the polygon which later are getting eliminated without topologically correct handling of the centroid. To put it into different words: If polygon massaging occurs in a topologically safe manner, there's a robust point-in-polygon available. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement
On Sunday 18 December 2011 04:02:01 Martin Spott wrote: Patrick Callahan wrote: What can be said about the flight dynamics of the C172P model? Is it accurate? If not, how could it be improved? The response varies _much_ depending on whom you ask :-) Personally I'm quite confident with FlightGear's flight dynamics, but there's always room for improvement and if you know someone who's flying the real one (maybe you're evn doing yourself), take a stopwatch, pen and paper and record climb rates at certain weather conditions and power settings and the like. Note that there are many, many different variants of the real one, therefore claims like it climbs too fast might be rather moot the smaller the deviation gets, because it depends much on the weight (which might depend a lot on the installed equipment) and the condition of the aircraft. Just an idea - cheers, Martin. I just noticed the c172p.xml (FDM) in FGData doesn't match the one in JSBSim. The one in JSBSim has propeller induced effects added in. Also, the FDM, by default, Has one 180 lb pilot, no other passengers and no luggage. It also only has 200 pounds of fuel and a capacity of 370 lbs. So, it is very lightly loaded. That could be why some observe that it climbs too well. Ron -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement
Sorry to respond to myself, but wanted to add some detail: Mass Properties Report (English units: lbf, in, slug-ft^2) WeightCG-XCG-YCG-Z Base Vehicle 1500.041.0 0.036.5 0 Pilot 180.036.0 -14.024.0 1 Co-Pilot 0.036.014.024.0 2 Left Passenger 0.070.0 -14.024.0 3 Right Passenger 0.070.014.024.0 4 Baggage 0.095.0 0.024.0 0 Fuel 100 56-11259.4 1 Fuel 100 56 11259.4 Total:1880.042.1-1.337.7 The CG-X arms should match what's in the TCDS and POH. The propeller file also does not match between JSBSim and FlightGear. JSBSim has the same tables, but they were commented out and replaced with new tables. Using a script I wrote to simulate a softfield takeoff technique[1], I see the following: datafiles as they are in FGDATA: Flaps 0% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 1900 0 Brake Release 11 40 2332 0 Rotation 17 59 2430 0 Lift off 22 71 2525 8 32 83 262184 456 fpm Flaps 30% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 19000 Brake Release 11 40 23300 Rotation 17 58 24230 Lift off 23 67 2500 14 33 75 2565 90 492 fpm Using JSBSim's IO-320 and Propeller Flaps 0% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 1900 0 Brake Release 9 39 2500 0 Rotation 13 58 2600 0 Lift off 23 84 280050 Engine over red-line 33 98 2875 200 900 fpm Flaps 30% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 1900 0 Brake Release 9 39 2500 0 Rotation 12 53 2600 0 Lift off 18 70 268015 23 77 2800 130 Engine over red-line 33 87 2830 216 516 fpm [1] The aim of the script was to get off the ground asap then lower the nose to gain airspeed. It does not try to establish a best climb speed. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p FDM
Adding another adult in the front seat, and two large kids/small ladies in the back seat, as well as 50 lbs of luggage and a near full load of fuel: Mass Properties Report (English units: lbf, in, slug-ft^2) WeightCG-XCG-YCG-Z Base Vehicle 1500.041.0 0.036.5 0 Pilot 180.036.0 -14.024.0 1 Co-Pilot 180.036.014.024.0 2 Left Passenger 100.070.0 -14.024.0 3 Right Passenger100.070.014.024.0 4 Baggage 50.095.0 0.024.0 0 Fuel 170 56-11259.4 1 Fuel 170 56 11259.4 Total:2450.045.8 0.036.6 Using a script I wrote to simulate a softfield takeoff technique[1], I see the following: Using FlightGear's IO-320 and Propeller Flaps 0% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 1900 0 Brake Release 14 41 2300 0 Rotation 25 64 2500 0 Lift off 32 74 2570 8 42 84 262562 324 fpm Distance traveled: 1087 ft Distance traveled (over 50'):2763 ft Flaps 30% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 1900 0 Brake Release 14 41 2350 0 Rotation 23 59 2430 0 Lift off 32 71 254016 42 75 257064 288 fpm Distance traveled: 1009 ft Distance traveled (over 50'):2529 ft Using JSBSim's IO-320 and Propeller Flaps 0% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 1900 0 Brake Release 11 40 2500 0 Rotation 18 63 2625 0 Lift off 23 74 2717 4 Engine over red-line 33 89 2830 145 846 fpm Distance traveled:827 ft Distance traveled (over 50'):2191 ft Flaps 30% Time Speed RPMHeightEvent (s)(knot) (ft agl) 0 0 1900 0 Brake Release 11 39 2500 0 Rotation 18 59 2600 0 Lift off 23 77 2696 8 Engine at red-line 33 80 277076 408 fpm Distance traveled:717 ft Distance traveled (over 50'):1951 ft [1] The aim of the script was to get off the ground asap then lower the nose to gain airspeed. It does not try to establish a best climb speed. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Is there a way to make the same shadow effects apply to aircraft as well? It applies also for aircraft, and for relief as well. Why do you thing it could be differently ? My implementation is very different from the one that was implemented in FG 1.0 I didn't know - my graphics knowledge is _very_ limited. :) http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/project_rembrandt_2.png http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/project_rembrandt_3.png Admittedly, something should be done to increase shadow map resolution near the viewer. I have ideas on how to do that, but it's for another day ;) That looks _really_ nice. It just oozes with potential. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
