Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
We have made some tests with 100Hz, 1000Hz and 1500Hz kernels and the 1000fps is more stable in the 100Hz server. This is with TF2 and dods. The dods server is quite stable but the TF2 servers isnt, we are still testing and are now compiling a zen + a new rt kernel. We have munin installed on the gameserver and its reporting heavy load on the system with 1000 and 1500Hz kernels with 1000 fps, even with lower fps its quite heavy load, but with a 100Hz kernel and 1000 fps the server isnt overloaded and the load graph is very low but the cpu usage is high. But the fps is droping even the server isnt loaded on TF2. On dods the fps is stable with 100Hz kernel and 600fps. (droping to 450fps) Peter ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
In that page the negraph are never showing values over 990fps... even when set to 10k... How are those test done? 20k fps can be done and should appear on the netgraph too not only in rcon stats... right? On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Blob b...@amg-it.co.uk wrote: I totally agree with you Lee, it s a bit of a mine field but so far it looks like a mask. Always worth a look: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-guide / -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of RTL-Servers | Lee Sent: 29 July 2010 15:33 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Hello, We've operated 1000fps servers for around 3-4 years now and I'm unable to notice any difference between this and a 10,000fps+ server. We do however allow clients the ability to run at high fps' but I've made it known we find there is no benefit from doing so, giving clients the freedom to alter it seems to keep them happy. The methods used for high fps are generally more of a mask than anything beneficial I find. If you'd like to try the following lib out: http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/13230 If you find any change, please let me know :-) Kind Regards Lee Gardiner RTL-Servers ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
The net graph won't display server fps values 1000 or higher and will instead display the last received value that was under 1000 fps. Instead you can monitor the value right of var: to ensure server fps variance remains low. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Marco Padovan Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:49 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS? In that page the negraph are never showing values over 990fps... even when set to 10k... How are those test done? 20k fps can be done and should appear on the netgraph too not only in rcon stats... right? On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Blob b...@amg-it.co.uk wrote: I totally agree with you Lee, it s a bit of a mine field but so far it looks like a mask. Always worth a look: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-gui de / -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of RTL-Servers | Lee Sent: 29 July 2010 15:33 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Hello, We've operated 1000fps servers for around 3-4 years now and I'm unable to notice any difference between this and a 10,000fps+ server. We do however allow clients the ability to run at high fps' but I've made it known we find there is no benefit from doing so, giving clients the freedom to alter it seems to keep them happy. The methods used for high fps are generally more of a mask than anything beneficial I find. If you'd like to try the following lib out: http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/13230 If you find any change, please let me know :-) Kind Regards Lee Gardiner RTL-Servers ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Pretty much what Tony said expect it doesn't seem to be true that it displays the last value under 1000 fps, as it often gets stuck at values the servers never reported. We suspect that there is also an int overflow in play here which makes the output totally meaningless. Alternatively it could well be the server is reporting some other measurement of fps which isn't consistent with the actual achieved fps due to a measurement error introduced by the high fps. Regards Steve - Original Message - From: Tony Paloma drunkenf...@hotmail.com The net graph won't display server fps values 1000 or higher and will instead display the last received value that was under 1000 fps. Instead you can monitor the value right of var: to ensure server fps variance remains low. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com In that page the negraph are never showing values over 990fps... even when set to 10k... How are those test done? 20k fps can be done and should appear on the netgraph too not only in rcon stats... right? This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Useful info there Tony thanks for that, any idea what precision that is?
I still suspect something odd is going on with that as logging the frame
times on the server doesn't show any variation during normal play that
would cause the behaviour you see on the fps on netgraph.
As you say though a single long frame will easily cause this and the changes
do all seem to be around round restart where the server is doing the most
IO so could easily be that.
So in theory a server which is consistently above 1000 fps is more likely
to display wildly inaccurate fps with this check in place.
Wonder if a client mod could remove this 0.001 check and let it display
properly?
Regards
Steve
- Original Message -
From: Tony Paloma drunkenf...@hotmail.com
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list'
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Actually, it is true that it displays the last value under 1000fps. From
vgui_netgraphpanel.cpp:
void CNetGraphPanel::UpdateEstimatedServerFramerate( INetChannelInfo
*netchannel )
{
float flFrameTime;
netchannel-GetRemoteFramerate( flFrameTime,
m_flServerFramerateStdDeviation );
if ( flFrameTime 0.001f )
{
m_flServerFramerate = 1.0f / flFrameTime;
}
}
m_flServerFramerate is what is displayed on the netgraph (see
CNetGraphPanel::DrawTextFields) and m_flServerFramerate is updated only if
flFrameTime 0.001 (i.e. less than 1000fps). All it takes is a single frame
to take longer than normal for you to dip below a calculated 1000fps which
may explain why you see it getting stuck at values the server never seemed
to report.
There is no integer overflow as far as I am aware.
This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it.
In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please
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Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
The frame time transmitted over the network to clients should be precise to
the hundred thousandths, so I don't think that's the issue. However, it also
only receives FPS updates as fast as the update rate.
Perhaps the discrepancy between what you are recording on the server and
what you see on the client is method of recording? The value transmitted to
clients to show on the net graph is calculated by Host_AccumulateTime which
just seems to set the frame time to the value passed into _Host_RunFrame (in
the default case) which seems to be the difference in time (Plat_FloatTime)
between calls to CEngine::Frame. The engine frame function seems to call up
to CServerPlugin::GameFrame so if you are using a plugin to calculate the
frame time yourself, I am not sure where the discrepancy would come in.
A client mod could remove the check for 0.001, though not easily. Also, I
assume the check is there to prevent division by zero.
-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Hartland
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:22 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Useful info there Tony thanks for that, any idea what precision that is?
I still suspect something odd is going on with that as logging the frame
times on the server doesn't show any variation during normal play that would
cause the behaviour you see on the fps on netgraph.
As you say though a single long frame will easily cause this and the changes
do all seem to be around round restart where the server is doing the most IO
so could easily be that.
So in theory a server which is consistently above 1000 fps is more likely to
display wildly inaccurate fps with this check in place.
Wonder if a client mod could remove this 0.001 check and let it display
properly?
Regards
Steve
- Original Message -
From: Tony Paloma drunkenf...@hotmail.com
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list'
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Actually, it is true that it displays the last value under 1000fps. From
vgui_netgraphpanel.cpp:
void CNetGraphPanel::UpdateEstimatedServerFramerate( INetChannelInfo
*netchannel )
{
float flFrameTime;
netchannel-GetRemoteFramerate( flFrameTime,
m_flServerFramerateStdDeviation );
if ( flFrameTime 0.001f )
{
m_flServerFramerate = 1.0f / flFrameTime;
}
}
m_flServerFramerate is what is displayed on the netgraph (see
CNetGraphPanel::DrawTextFields) and m_flServerFramerate is updated only if
flFrameTime 0.001 (i.e. less than 1000fps). All it takes is a single
frame
to take longer than normal for you to dip below a calculated 1000fps which
may explain why you see it getting stuck at values the server never seemed
to report.
There is no integer overflow as far as I am aware.
This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the
person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the
recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise
disseminating it or any information contained in it.
In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please
telephone +44 845 868 1337
or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk.
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Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Frames are well frames during which server performs anything. Frame can perform a tick. Doing complicated magic to get over 1000 frames per second serves nothing. But game server companies have to sell servers. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
hundred thousands would explain it being unable to go above 990, so that
clears something up :)
I'm not using a plugin, I'm using an OS override to correct the interframe
sleep time so its should have the most accurate view of the simulation
possible, unless I'm missing something.
If its using Plat_FloatTime that cold easily explain the issues as it
uses gettimeofday on Linux which is not guaranteed to be monotonic, so you
could see the value decrease as ntp nudges the system clock for example.
Obviously if this happened, it could cause all sorts of strange edge cases.
Yes you would need to ensure that you still avoid div by zero. Seems the
display code can deal with %5.1 easily enough for high FPS servers
just need the value of m_flServerFramerate to be correct.
The fact that the fps is guarded by if ( flFrameTime 0.001f ) but
stdev value isn't would explain why its always appears to be way more
accurate which gives more weight to my suspicions about the fps value
having a problem somewhere, possibly server side given the current info.
Regards
Steve
- Original Message -
From: Tony Paloma drunkenf...@hotmail.com
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list'
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
The frame time transmitted over the network to clients should be precise to
the hundred thousandths, so I don't think that's the issue. However, it also
only receives FPS updates as fast as the update rate.
Perhaps the discrepancy between what you are recording on the server and
what you see on the client is method of recording? The value transmitted to
clients to show on the net graph is calculated by Host_AccumulateTime which
just seems to set the frame time to the value passed into _Host_RunFrame (in
the default case) which seems to be the difference in time (Plat_FloatTime)
between calls to CEngine::Frame. The engine frame function seems to call up
to CServerPlugin::GameFrame so if you are using a plugin to calculate the
frame time yourself, I am not sure where the discrepancy would come in.
A client mod could remove the check for 0.001, though not easily. Also, I
assume the check is there to prevent division by zero.
-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Hartland
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:22 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Useful info there Tony thanks for that, any idea what precision that is?
I still suspect something odd is going on with that as logging the frame
times on the server doesn't show any variation during normal play that would
cause the behaviour you see on the fps on netgraph.
As you say though a single long frame will easily cause this and the changes
do all seem to be around round restart where the server is doing the most IO
so could easily be that.
So in theory a server which is consistently above 1000 fps is more likely to
display wildly inaccurate fps with this check in place.
Wonder if a client mod could remove this 0.001 check and let it display
properly?
Regards
Steve
- Original Message -
From: Tony Paloma drunkenf...@hotmail.com
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list'
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Actually, it is true that it displays the last value under 1000fps. From
vgui_netgraphpanel.cpp:
void CNetGraphPanel::UpdateEstimatedServerFramerate( INetChannelInfo
*netchannel )
{
float flFrameTime;
netchannel-GetRemoteFramerate( flFrameTime,
m_flServerFramerateStdDeviation );
if ( flFrameTime 0.001f )
{
m_flServerFramerate = 1.0f / flFrameTime;
}
}
m_flServerFramerate is what is displayed on the netgraph (see
CNetGraphPanel::DrawTextFields) and m_flServerFramerate is updated only if
flFrameTime 0.001 (i.e. less than 1000fps). All it takes is a single
frame
to take longer than normal for you to dip below a calculated 1000fps which
may explain why you see it getting stuck at values the server never seemed
to report.
There is no integer overflow as far as I am aware.
This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the
person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the
recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise
disseminating it or any information contained in it.
In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please
telephone +44 845 868 1337
or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk.
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please visit:
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To unsubscribe, edit
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
At 06:33 PM 8/2/2010, Steven Hartland wrote: hundred thousands would explain it being unable to go above 990, so that clears something up :) I'm not using a plugin, I'm using an OS override to correct the interframe sleep time so its should have the most accurate view of the simulation possible, unless I'm missing something. I'm assuming you're using those LD_PRELOAD hacks to alter what usleep() does.. If its using Plat_FloatTime that cold easily explain the issues as it uses gettimeofday on Linux which is not guaranteed to be monotonic, so you could see the value decrease as ntp nudges the system clock for example. Obviously if this happened, it could cause all sorts of strange edge cases. It does use it. I patched it to use clock_gettime and didn't see any difference, really. Doesn't matter what you use, the APIs are only as good as the timecounters driving them. -M ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
At 06:33 PM 8/2/2010, Steven Hartland wrote: hundred thousands would explain it being unable to go above 990, so that clears something up :) I'm not using a plugin, I'm using an OS override to correct the interframe sleep time so its should have the most accurate view of the simulation possible, unless I'm missing something. I'm assuming you're using those LD_PRELOAD hacks to alter what usleep() does.. If its using Plat_FloatTime that cold easily explain the issues as it uses gettimeofday on Linux which is not guaranteed to be monotonic, so you could see the value decrease as ntp nudges the system clock for example. Obviously if this happened, it could cause all sorts of strange edge cases. It does use it. I patched it to use clock_gettime and didn't see any difference, really. Doesn't matter what you use, the APIs are only as good as the timecounters driving them. -M ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
I totally agree with you Lee, it s a bit of a mine field but so far it looks like a mask. Always worth a look: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-guide / -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of RTL-Servers | Lee Sent: 29 July 2010 15:33 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Hello, We've operated 1000fps servers for around 3-4 years now and I'm unable to notice any difference between this and a 10,000fps+ server. We do however allow clients the ability to run at high fps' but I've made it known we find there is no benefit from doing so, giving clients the freedom to alter it seems to keep them happy. The methods used for high fps are generally more of a mask than anything beneficial I find. If you'd like to try the following lib out: http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/13230 If you find any change, please let me know :-) Kind Regards Lee Gardiner RTL-Servers ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:45 AM, Cheet ah cah...@gmail.com wrote: Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? Uhh, didn't you hear? They're good for advertising unreasonably overpriced gameservers. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Explained with on a car: Elektronical limited maximum speed and throttled aceleration = tickrate Revelutions per second= fps If you increase rpm you will get only a higher fuel usage = cpu usage As long fps are greater than tickrate and pretty stabel you are fine and nobody cann a difference. I guess server fps are networking actions per second since the net_graph ping slightly decreases when you raise them up. fwaggle schrieb: As I understand it FPS vs Tick works something like this: 66 Tick means 66 times per second, the game world updates what's going on based on the incoming events as they're timestamped. I'm led to believe the fames per second is how often the server goes through and timestamps stuff to be processed during the next tick (in other words, roughly speaking, it's the precision of the timestamps, not the speed at which the server runs). What advantage to fairness that gives you in-game, I have absolutely no idea - as I'm not sure you could, taking into account network lag and such, tell the difference in shot registration whether the server's timestamps have a granularity of 2ms or 10ms. I might be entirely mistaken on this understanding of it, I have no idea where I read it. On 7/28/2010 9:45 PM, Cheet ah wrote: Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? After reading through the technical documents on valve's site, there is no mention to server FPS in any performance context, at all. The only thing it mentions is how the server tickrate influences precision of operations. I do know that tickrate needs 1 frame for simulation, on newer engines 66hz needs 1 frame for each hz, so 66fps are required. On high FPS servers like 1000fps and above, what are the other 933 'frames' doing? I can understand everyone wants low latency, what the hell does a 10,000FPS server do better than a 1,000FPS server, besides suck up massive amounts of CPU, for syscalls? Valid reasons should be some kind of code (a plugin that measures latency or bullet spread and prints the numbers for measurement), orinsert technical discussion here ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Seems to be a common question, we've collated some information on this here: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-guide/ If any one has anything to add / remote or general comments on how to improve this please let us know. Regards Steve - Original Message - From: Cheet ah cah...@gmail.com To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:45 AM Subject: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? After reading through the technical documents on valve's site, there is no mention to server FPS in any performance context, at all. The only thing it mentions is how the server tickrate influences precision of operations. I do know that tickrate needs 1 frame for simulation, on newer engines 66hz needs 1 frame for each hz, so 66fps are required. On high FPS servers like 1000fps and above, what are the other 933 'frames' doing? I can understand everyone wants low latency, what the hell does a 10,000FPS server do better than a 1,000FPS server, besides suck up massive amounts of CPU, for syscalls? Valid reasons should be some kind of code (a plugin that measures latency or bullet spread and prints the numbers for measurement), or insert technical discussion here Invalid reasons are the following: - It feels better / I can kill people better - http://www.fpsmeter.org/p,faq.html - Realtime kernels make the FPS more steady - Larger number are always better ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
http://www.gsptruth.com/forum/f79/1000-fps-fairy-tale-125/ 2010/7/29 Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.uk Seems to be a common question, we've collated some information on this here: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-guide/ If any one has anything to add / remote or general comments on how to improve this please let us know. Regards Steve - Original Message - From: Cheet ah cah...@gmail.com To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:45 AM Subject: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? After reading through the technical documents on valve's site, there is no mention to server FPS in any performance context, at all. The only thing it mentions is how the server tickrate influences precision of operations. I do know that tickrate needs 1 frame for simulation, on newer engines 66hz needs 1 frame for each hz, so 66fps are required. On high FPS servers like 1000fps and above, what are the other 933 'frames' doing? I can understand everyone wants low latency, what the hell does a 10,000FPS server do better than a 1,000FPS server, besides suck up massive amounts of CPU, for syscalls? Valid reasons should be some kind of code (a plugin that measures latency or bullet spread and prints the numbers for measurement), or insert technical discussion here Invalid reasons are the following: - It feels better / I can kill people better - http://www.fpsmeter.org/p,faq.html - Realtime kernels make the FPS more steady - Larger number are always better ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Best regards, AnAkIn, - ESL EU TF2 Admin http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Can't we just rule out 10 000fps is there any operating system even capable to sustain that kernel tic (10 000hz) ? I dont think thats possible. But on the other side some GSP's claim that running hlds servers at 1000fps makes sure that 10 players on a warserver etch get 100fps for a secured stable fps and in a way thats not a lie or is it ?, I dont have any fact that its true but maybe. Br Henrik -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] För AnAkIn . Skickat: den 29 juli 2010 15:20 Till: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Ämne: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS? http://www.gsptruth.com/forum/f79/1000-fps-fairy-tale-125/ 2010/7/29 Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.uk Seems to be a common question, we've collated some information on this here: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-guide/ If any one has anything to add / remote or general comments on how to improve this please let us know. Regards Steve - Original Message - From: Cheet ah cah...@gmail.com To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:45 AM Subject: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? After reading through the technical documents on valve's site, there is no mention to server FPS in any performance context, at all. The only thing it mentions is how the server tickrate influences precision of operations. I do know that tickrate needs 1 frame for simulation, on newer engines 66hz needs 1 frame for each hz, so 66fps are required. On high FPS servers like 1000fps and above, what are the other 933 'frames' doing? I can understand everyone wants low latency, what the hell does a 10,000FPS server do better than a 1,000FPS server, besides suck up massive amounts of CPU, for syscalls? Valid reasons should be some kind of code (a plugin that measures latency or bullet spread and prints the numbers for measurement), or insert technical discussion here Invalid reasons are the following: - It feels better / I can kill people better - http://www.fpsmeter.org/p,faq.html - Realtime kernels make the FPS more steady - Larger number are always better ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Best regards, AnAkIn, - ESL EU TF2 Admin http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
That's a lie. If you check L4D/L4D2, the server runs at 30 FPS and 30 Tickrate. So by that logic each client would receive 7.5 updates/s, which is false. All clients receive 30/s. Some GSPs also claim to sell 3 FPS servers, lol. 2010/7/29 Henrik Magnusson henri...@truefox.se Can't we just rule out 10 000fps is there any operating system even capable to sustain that kernel tic (10 000hz) ? I don’t think that’s possible. But on the other side some GSP's claim that running hlds servers at 1000fps makes sure that 10 players on a warserver etch get 100fps for a secured stable fps and in a way that’s not a lie or is it ?, I don’t have any fact that its true but maybe. Br Henrik -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] För AnAkIn . Skickat: den 29 juli 2010 15:20 Till: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Ämne: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS? http://www.gsptruth.com/forum/f79/1000-fps-fairy-tale-125/ 2010/7/29 Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.uk Seems to be a common question, we've collated some information on this here: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-guide/ If any one has anything to add / remote or general comments on how to improve this please let us know. Regards Steve - Original Message - From: Cheet ah cah...@gmail.com To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:45 AM Subject: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? After reading through the technical documents on valve's site, there is no mention to server FPS in any performance context, at all. The only thing it mentions is how the server tickrate influences precision of operations. I do know that tickrate needs 1 frame for simulation, on newer engines 66hz needs 1 frame for each hz, so 66fps are required. On high FPS servers like 1000fps and above, what are the other 933 'frames' doing? I can understand everyone wants low latency, what the hell does a 10,000FPS server do better than a 1,000FPS server, besides suck up massive amounts of CPU, for syscalls? Valid reasons should be some kind of code (a plugin that measures latency or bullet spread and prints the numbers for measurement), or insert technical discussion here Invalid reasons are the following: - It feels better / I can kill people better - http://www.fpsmeter.org/p,faq.html - Realtime kernels make the FPS more steady - Larger number are always better ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Best regards, AnAkIn, - ESL EU TF2 Admin http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Best regards, AnAkIn, - ESL EU TF2 Admin http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
Hello, We've operated 1000fps servers for around 3-4 years now and I'm unable to notice any difference between this and a 10,000fps+ server. We do however allow clients the ability to run at high fps' but I've made it known we find there is no benefit from doing so, giving clients the freedom to alter it seems to keep them happy. The methods used for high fps are generally more of a mask than anything beneficial I find. If you'd like to try the following lib out: http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/13230 If you find any change, please let me know :-) Kind Regards Lee Gardiner RTL-Servers ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
We can actually get a stable 40k+ here, but there's no point ;-) Regards Steve - Original Message - From: Henrik Magnusson henri...@truefox.se To: 'Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list' hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS? Can't we just rule out 10 000fps is there any operating system even capable to sustain that kernel tic (10 000hz) ? I don't think that's possible. But on the other side some GSP's claim that running hlds servers at 1000fps makes sure that 10 players on a warserver etch get 100fps for a secured stable fps and in a way that's not a lie or is it ?, I don't have any fact that its true but maybe. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
I have infinite FPS and Tickrate. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
At 05:33 AM 7/29/2010, Steven Hartland wrote: Seems to be a common question, we've collated some information on this here: http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/help/source-engine-performance-guide/ If any one has anything to add / remote or general comments on how to improve this please let us know. Regards Steve Without access to the engine's net_sleep code, it's impossible to tell what happens. Nobody can really know. There is no way that you or I could ever document how FPS works. No way. Posting graphs doesn't tell anyone anything about the internals of the game. :) It would take a very long time to reverse engineer all the time functions VALVe uses to step time, plus figure out what they effect and what they don't. The original poster did make me laugh though, the guy who runs that FPS meter site is a complete and total moron. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
I posted an explanation of Tickrate and FPS here http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/13729. However, as Gary said, its really just theory. The only way to know for sure is to look at the source code for the engine. -DiSTANT On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Cheet ah cah...@gmail.com wrote: Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? After reading through the technical documents on valve's site, there is no mention to server FPS in any performance context, at all. The only thing it mentions is how the server tickrate influences precision of operations. I do know that tickrate needs 1 frame for simulation, on newer engines 66hz needs 1 frame for each hz, so 66fps are required. On high FPS servers like 1000fps and above, what are the other 933 'frames' doing? I can understand everyone wants low latency, what the hell does a 10,000FPS server do better than a 1,000FPS server, besides suck up massive amounts of CPU, for syscalls? Valid reasons should be some kind of code (a plugin that measures latency or bullet spread and prints the numbers for measurement), or insert technical discussion here Invalid reasons are the following: - It feels better / I can kill people better - http://www.fpsmeter.org/p,faq.html - Realtime kernels make the FPS more steady - Larger number are always better ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] High FPS?
As I understand it FPS vs Tick works something like this: 66 Tick means 66 times per second, the game world updates what's going on based on the incoming events as they're timestamped. I'm led to believe the fames per second is how often the server goes through and timestamps stuff to be processed during the next tick (in other words, roughly speaking, it's the precision of the timestamps, not the speed at which the server runs). What advantage to fairness that gives you in-game, I have absolutely no idea - as I'm not sure you could, taking into account network lag and such, tell the difference in shot registration whether the server's timestamps have a granularity of 2ms or 10ms. I might be entirely mistaken on this understanding of it, I have no idea where I read it. On 7/28/2010 9:45 PM, Cheet ah wrote: Can anyone, technically, tell me what high FPS is supposed to do? After reading through the technical documents on valve's site, there is no mention to server FPS in any performance context, at all. The only thing it mentions is how the server tickrate influences precision of operations. I do know that tickrate needs 1 frame for simulation, on newer engines 66hz needs 1 frame for each hz, so 66fps are required. On high FPS servers like 1000fps and above, what are the other 933 'frames' doing? I can understand everyone wants low latency, what the hell does a 10,000FPS server do better than a 1,000FPS server, besides suck up massive amounts of CPU, for syscalls? Valid reasons should be some kind of code (a plugin that measures latency or bullet spread and prints the numbers for measurement), orinsert technical discussion here ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
