Starting up problem.

2000-06-26 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Hi all,

ust migrated from Windoze to Linux (Mandrake 7.0) and have the
following trouble when starting:
I get en error message telling me /eth0 could not initialize.

My ethernet adpater is NE2000 compatible, and works ok under Windoze95.

In which direction should I start digging ?

Grateful thanks in advance,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.


Renaud OLGIATI   No act of kindness,
Cerro Cora 3662 no matter how small,
Asuncion (Paraguay) ever goes completely unpunished. 



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Re: Starting up problem.

2000-06-27 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

My grateful thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction, it now
works  ;-)

Ron the Frog, on the rainy banks of the Paraguay River.

 Renaud OLGIATI   No act of kindness, 
Cerro Cora 3662   no matter how
small, Asuncion (Paraguay) ever goes completely unpunished. 



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NETWORKING WOES

2000-06-29 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

My sad tale continues !

Having managed, thanks to your help, to configure eth0, i find I can
ping the Windoze boxes on my net with 

ping 192.168.0.X

but that trying  ping boxname gives me nothing; 

I have checked that my /etc/hosts file has a line 

192.168.0.2 boxname 0 #0 

What else could / should I look for that is missing ?

TIA,

Ron the Newbie, on the sunny banks of the Paraguay River.
-- 

Renaud OLGIATI   No act of kindness,
Cerro Cora 3662 no matter how small,
Asuncion (Paraguay) ever goes completely unpunished. 



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Repartitionning software ? Linux magazine ?

2000-07-05 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Recently migrated to Mandrake Linux, I have two general Linux queries:

-Can anyone point me toward a magazine, US published if possible, aimed
at the Linux user ?

Does anyone here know of a Linux program for non destructive
hard-disk repartitioning (like PQMagic for DOS) ?

TIA,

Ron the Frog, freezing on the banks of the Paraguay River.
-- 

Renaud OLGIATI   No act of kindness,
Cerro Cora 3662 no matter how small,
Asuncion (Paraguay) ever goes completely unpunished. 



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Re: HD mirroring utility?

2000-07-06 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

I tried to follow your line, but get from tar an error message to the
effect that it "cowardly refuses to create an empty archive."

Would you care to enlighten this ignorant newbie ? Where do I go wrong ?

TIA,

Ron the Frog, thawing on the banks of the Paraguay River.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2000, Marc Mutz wrote:

 Instead of cp, I personally use tar for this for the siple fact that cp
 is a bit picky about special files (esp. named pipes), found in /dev/
 and /var/... and /tmp. so instead of the above command, I'd use
 
 $ tar cfp - -C /old . | tar xfp - -C /new
 
 this is spelled thus:
 
 _C_reate a tar _F_ile (- = STDOUT) and _P_reserve as much as you can of
 the permissions. To do this, first _C_hange to /old, then use '.' as
 source.
 Take the output and pipe it to another tar, _X_tracting the stream from
 _F_ile '-' after _C_hanging to /new.
 
 I got cp's stuck on copying a 'p' file - since then, I use tar
 exclusively for such things.

-- 

Renaud OLGIATI   No act of kindness,
Cerro Cora 3662 no matter how small,
Asuncion (Paraguay) ever goes completely unpunished. 



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Re: HD mirroring utility?

2000-07-06 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Thu, 06 Jul 2000, Richard Adams wrote:
 On Wed, 05 Jul 2000,  Renaud OLGIATI wrote about,  Re: HD mirroring utility?:
  I tried to follow your line, but get from tar an error message to the
  effect that it "cowardly refuses to create an empty archive."

 What is possably happening is you have not though enough about what
Marc  wrote.
 
 His "example" is really a perfectly vaild example, its a question of
 seeing the directory "old" as what you want to copy, and the new as the
 directory to which you want to copy the files to. Both directorys must be
 there on your machine.
 
 As to your text empty archive, that i cannot seem to simulate, so just what
 are you doing.?? Exacht commands would be informative.
 
 Of course i dont want to step on Marc's toes here, but sometimes Marc
 answers mails after a few days, hence my reply to you.

I did the following:
mounted as /mnt/toto the target partition, and created on it all the
dirs I want to copy (/bin, /dev, /etc etc.)

The issued the command:

$ tar cfp - -C /bin . | tar xfp - -C /mnt/toto/bin

and got the message I refered to.

I'm using Mandrake 7.0

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.
-- 

Renaud OLGIATI   No act of kindness,
Cerro Cora 3662 no matter how small,
Asuncion (Paraguay) ever goes completely unpunished. 



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KDE vs Gnome ?

2000-07-08 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

The recent thread on KDE not working prompts me to ask a question; I
apologize in advance for its probably quasi-theological nature:

Which is the better: KDE or Gnome ?

Does one have strengths in some areas and the other in other aereas ?

my distro (Mandrake 7.0) comes with both, and installs KDE by default.
I only noticed Gnome when it came up once after a failed re-installation  ;-)



Renaud OLGIATI   No act of kindness,
Cerro Cora 3662 no matter how small,
Asuncion (Paraguay) ever goes completely unpunished. 



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Re: Shared Swap

2000-07-08 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Sat, 08 Jul 2000, David Aikema wrote:
 Can two different linux distros share a single swap partition?

Dont know if its general, but they do on mine: I have Corel Linux on
one partition, Mandrake on another and they adress the same swap
partition; 

Of course, they dont work at the same time  ;-)

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
 It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong
   than forgiveness for being right.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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No Subject

2000-07-08 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

In the course of migrating from another OS/GUI to Linux, I have just
re-written in gawk a short program I had before to generate at each
boot-up a new sig-file for my email.

Thie gawk script works fine, and I have tried to invoke it from
/etc/profile thinking it would thus run at start-up.

Wrong, it only runs if I open a console (ctrl-alt-F1) and log in there.

Where should I call it from ? Is there a file that is run whenever
Linux (or KDE) is started ?

TIA,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
   Beware of bugs in the above code;
  I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
   -- Donald Knuth
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: Linux replacements for some Windows prgs (was Re: ISO - Why Here

2000-07-08 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Sat, 08 Jul 2000, David Jones wrote:

 So what do you recommend as competitive Linux 
 replacements for:
 
 CorelDraw (vector graphics program)
 CorelXara (vector graphics/bitmap program)

Has Corel not announced that those will soon be ported to Linux ?

Cheers,

Ron the rog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.
-- 
 
   Any time things appear to be going better,
 you have overlooked something.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: your mail

2000-07-08 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Sat, 08 Jul 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Init scripts are rather distro and version specific, but most setups run
 /etc/rc.d/rc.local after the other bootup scripts, so it is a good place
 for site customization.  Man init and man inittab for how it works.
 
 If you want to run it for each bash session _except_ cosole logins, you
 can put it in ~/.bashrc

Thanks for the advice, will try tomorrow morning.

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, soaking wet on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
 He who says it cannot be done
   should never interrupt he who is doing it.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: your mail

2000-07-09 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Thanks to all who helped, it now works a treat.

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, soaked on the banks of the Paraguay River.


On Sat, 08 Jul 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Init scripts are rather distro and version specific, but most setups run
 /etc/rc.d/rc.local after the other bootup scripts, so it is a good place
 for site customization.  Man init and man inittab for how it works.
 
 If you want to run it for each bash session _except_ cosole logins, you
 can put it in ~/.bashrc

-- 
 
 Which is worse: ignorance or apathy ?
Who knows ?  Who cares ?
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Another possibly daft question ?

2000-07-11 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

I would like to have the same configuration and access the same data
folders whether I'm logged in as root, or as my user id.

I thought of having the two sharing /root as home dir; would this
create a security weak-spot ? Or any other problems ?

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Ron the Frog, freezing under the rain on the banks of the Paraguay
River.

-- 
 
The difference between something that might go wrong and
something that can not possibly go wrong is that
  when something that can not possibly go wrong does go wrong,
   it is usually impossible to repair or to correct.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---

 

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Re: Another possibly daft question ?

2000-07-12 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Richard Adams wrote:
 
 Not really a silly question, however if the files are in /root roots home
 dir, then you will comprimise /root as a private unreadable directory to
 other users, this because you would have to change permissions of not only
 the file in /root but /root itself.

I now see how I should have phrased my query: From the security point of
view, are there any problems if other users can access the content of /root
?

I thought that the sensitive system files (passwd and similar) were hidden
somewhere else anyway.

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, freezing on the sunny banks of the Paraguay River

-- 
 
  There is no time like the pleasant.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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KPanel woes

2000-07-15 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

I have been troubled recently by KPanel which often dies on me, usually
when I close KPPP after a long download using Netscape.

I have solved the annoyance by creating on my desktop a link to
/usr/bin/kpanel but I wonder: 

Is this the sign of some other problem ?

Should I look for other trouble ?

Worried, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
Opportunity always knocks at the least opportune moment.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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re: KPanel woes

2000-07-16 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why do a long download with netscrape, when there is
 wget and lynx?

'Cause I'm trying to download from Sun.Com, and they make you jump throuh a
number of HTML/JAVA loops before you get to the download page.

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, frozen on the sunny banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
  There is a basic mental weakness evidenced by anyone
 who would blame a tool for the foibles of its wielder.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: Staroffice 5.2 ....'aborted'

2000-07-18 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Mon, 17 Jul 2000, Santosh Vadawale wrote:

   Recently I downloaded Staroffice 5.2 and performed network
 installation on our small NFS/NIS based network (Four machines all running
 RH6.0 on PII-450 with 128MB). The original installation (as root) went
 very smoothly and finished properly. Then I installed from in my personal
 account (as said in the README). Here also installation went smoothly,
 except it gave me two messages.
 
   1. No JRE found  so I installed without Java support
   2. No Adabas support ...I don't know what Adabas is but I
  accepted it. (It said that I can rerun setup after installing
Adabas)
 
   Now when I try to run Staroffice 5.2 from my home directory (by
 entering soffice) it shows me the startup picture but then immediately
 exits by just saying "aborted". Nothing else.

I have (tried to) install so5.2 today, and get a similar result.
Mind, the installation procedure gave me several error messages, refering
to files that could not be installed (bad CRC for compressed data) but the
final result is the same, cannot start SO, cannot re-install it as it
refuses to do so, claiming it IS installed and I must un-install before
re-installing; but to add insult to injury, the ssetup proc that shoud
uninstall it tell me it cannot run, as it is not installed.

Was it developped by,saboteurs from Redmont ?

   I checked this with another user account also. It is behaving in
 the same way.
   Now, I don't think the absence of JRE or Adabas (which looks like
 some database kind of thing. SO 5.1 works well without it) should cause
 such problem.

I dont have JRE, but I have Adabas, and the problem seems the same.

   Does any one has faced such problem? What is the solution?
   Thanks to all in advance.

Anyone knows of a Star-Office list somewhere ?

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, freezing on the banks of the Paraguay River.
-- 
 
 Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
  -- H. L. Mencken
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: Staroffice 5.2 ....'aborted'

2000-07-18 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Adams wrote:
 On Tue, 18 Jul 2000,  Renaud OLGIATI wrote about,  Re: Staroffice 5.2 'aborted':
 
  I have (tried to) install so5.2 today, and get a similar result.
  Mind, the installation procedure gave me several error messages, refering
  to files that could not be installed (bad CRC for compressed data) but the
  final result is the same, cannot start SO, cannot re-install it as it
  refuses to do so, claiming it IS installed and I must un-install before
  re-installing; but to add insult to injury, the ssetup proc that shoud
  uninstall it tell me it cannot run, as it is not installed.
  
  Was it developped by,saboteurs from Redmont ?
 
 Just what version is it, where did you get it, and please quote the eacht
 errors not just, cont find, some or other dir.

Yes Sir, sorry Sir, here's the info, Sir !  vbg

I copied the error messages as they appeared in the Konsole session in
which I started the install.

  error:  invalid compressed (deflated) data for sw56901.res
  error:  invalid compressed (deflated) data for sw56901.res
unoil.jar :  Bad CRC e6230cff  (should be 53f7b7f7)
euro_1.bmp:  Bad CRC 1d71debb  (should be 3370df4e)
  error:  invalid compressed (deflated) data for libadr569li.so
sfx56901.res  :  Bad CRC 4137cf34  (should be b24e60df)

Its SO 5.2, English language version, downloaded in 10 segments
(so-5_2-ga-bin-linux-en-000.bin to so-5_2-ga-bin-linux-en-009.bin)

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, frozen on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
 Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
  -- H. L. Mencken
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Apologies: Re: Staroffice 5.2 ....'aborted'

2000-07-18 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Grovelling apologies, my message to StarOffice support was by mistake
copied to the list.

I will check the adress before sending (one hundred times  ;-)

R.Olgiati
 -- 
  Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
  -- H. L. Mencken
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Installing .deb packages ?

2000-07-19 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Am I in a nightmare ?

I would like to install on my Mandrake system (which is a variant of RH from
what I hear) the Wordperfect which resides on my Corel Linux CD.

WP comes as a .deb file.

So I need dpkg to install it

But the only dpkg I have is also in a .deb file  ;-(

HLP !

TIA,

Ron the Frog, freezing on the sunny banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
Anarchy may not be the best form of government,
   but it's better than no government at all.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Serial networking ?

2000-07-27 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Here's another question that's been worrying me for a few nights:

Converted to Linux, I would like to install it on my laptop.

Problem: the laptop does not have a CD player, and I dont relish the idea
of copying and feeding it gazillions of floppies.

Is there a way to connect it by serial port, a la Laplink / Interlink, so
I can, after booting with Boot and Root floppies, continue the
installation over the serial link from the cd monted on the desktop box ?

TIA,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

 -- 
 
  Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: Serial networking ?

2000-07-29 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Actually the easier way would be to install it over NFS if you have
 network cards for both machines all you do is edit /etc/exports and make
 sure nfsd is running 

Very true, O KIng, but the laptop is entirely devoid of any form of network
card; hence my interest in serial / parallel networking !

My next line of research will be how to get slip / plip working at boot
time wwith a minimum of floppies  ;-(

Cheers,

 Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
   A conscience does not prevent sin.
 It only prevents you from enjoying it.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: Serial networking ?

2000-07-29 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000, Richard Adams wrote:
 
 I installed all the A series and N series, which is a total of 24 disks,
 however you can cut that amount down considerably.
 
 I belive Lawson once made a list of the minimum disks needed to install and
 have a working network.

I think I now see my way: I will, under DOS, partition the laptop HD in
two, one smallish one (64 M) which I will later use as swap, and the rest
for Linux; will copy the A and N series with Interlink, after which I can
boot and root, and install A and N from the HD. 

Should work  (famous last words...)

Thanks for all your help,
  
Cheers,

 Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
 Beware of self-styled experts:
   an ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: Core dump ?

2000-08-02 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Wed, 02 Aug 2000, you wrote:

 A "core dump" is a file left by a "crashed" program that would allow
 someone who knows what they're doing (not me, hehehehe) to figure out
 what might have gone wrong.  If you're not sure what it is, my guess
 is that it would be of little use to me (or me ;o) ).  You can safely
 delete such files.

I thought it would be so, but did not want to risk breaking anything.

Thanks and cheers,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River. 

 Of all the animals, the boy is the most unmanageable.
  -- Plato
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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StarOffice 5.1 wanted (again)

2000-08-03 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Two weeks back, I posted a message asking anyone who had upgraded from SO
5.1 to 5.2, and would be wiilling to sell me the CD he now no longer
needed, to contact me.

One lister did, and sent me his CD; unhappily, the US and Paraguayan potal
service worked managed between them to turn the CD into two half-CDs  ;-(

So here I come again: I there is another one out there  ?

I have tried downloading, does not work; and all I can get here on mags
covers are Spanish or Portugese versions, and I need the English one.

TIA,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: DOSEMU woes

2000-08-03 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Thu, 03 Aug 2000, you wrote:

  Have I missed somthing ?
 
 man dos 

Stupid of me, I tried forman dosemu And got nothing in result !

Thanks for the help,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.
-- 
 
 Money can't buy you happiness,
but it can buy a better kind of misery.
   -- Woody Alen
 
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Re: new drive - partitions sizes?

2000-08-04 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

As an aside to this thread, is there a simple way to find the size of a
given branch of the file-tree ?

Or in other words, to find how big is /someting/other  including all the
subdirectories ?

TIA,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.


-- 
 
   If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: new drive - partitions sizes?

2000-08-04 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Richard Adams wrote:
  Or in other words, to find how big is /someting/other  including all the
  subdirectories ?
 
 du -m /something/other

Finally got it:
du -sx /xxx

Cheers,

 Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
  Always remember that you are unique.
Just like everyone else.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: same old problem

2000-08-04 Thread Renaud OLGIATI


Had the same problem with my box; disk would start acting strangely at
times; 
Changed the disk for a new one, same story;
Then found that it stopped its strange doings if I wiggled the HD ribbon
cable; changed the cable and no more problems.

What will I do with this extra HD  ?  VBG

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River. 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Jim Reimer wrote:
 The computer has a new drive, and I've swapped the memory (was 16meg, 
 now 32meg).  Condition of memory is unknown - came out of an old
 machine - but it passes the POST ok.
 
 RH6.2 installed ok, and I left it sitting at the login prompt.  A while
 later, I had the "drive not ready for command" messages scrolling up the
 screen again.  Computer would not respond to CTRL-ALT-DEL.  Pressed reset,
 and the computer wouldn't boot (just like with the old drive).  Cycled
 power, it started booting, but now I have a corrupted file system again.
 
 It's been turned off all night, just turned it on, and it won't boot at
 all from the hard drive.  Boots ok from floppy.
 
 Booting from the floppy (with the install disk) goes ok until it starts
 checking for drives, then I get "hda: lost interrupt" over and over
 and over...
 
 P90, Award BIOS v4.50G, on-board IDE  floppy controllers.
 Everything related to APM in the BIOS is either 'off' or 'disabled'.

-- 
 
   If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: [newbie] Linux resources online

2000-08-06 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

I remember working on a machine with 4 k memory; but this was a main-frame
(IBM 1620) using vacum tubes; input and output by punched cards, and
running Fortran II; 
Must have been in '68 or '69.

This was the "obsolete" machine us students were allowed to play with; for
serious computing, there was another mainframe, with a hard disk of, IIRC,
4 Mb capacity; memory was 96 kb, raised to 128 kb around 1970.

And we were told we were priviledged, because our university had one of the
most powerful computers in the education system at the time !

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, getting old on the banks of the Paraguay River.

 Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits"
 didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single
 platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with
 names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-)

 --
/\
DarkLord
\/





-- 
 
  Any sufficiently advanced technology
  is indistinguishable from magic.
   -- Arthur C. Clarke
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Re: Netscrape

2000-08-08 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

On Mon, 07 Aug 2000, you wrote:
 I know this is only halfway a Linux techie question, but can anyone direct me
 to a site where I can find some good info on using Netscape?   (And not
 Netscrape's own gotta-be-on-line-to-use-it  'Help' system which is as useless
 as a Windoze Help file  :(
 
 (I want a way to clear the cache so I can be sure it's downloading the
 latest version of a web page and not just recycling the one I DL'd two days
 ago).

In Netscape,  Edit == Prederences == Advanced == Cache == Clear memory
cache and clear disk cache

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River

 -- 
 
   I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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KDM: connexting to an HTTPS url ?

2000-08-12 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Is there a way to do this with KDM ? I dont like Netscape

TIA,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
   A fanatic is a person who does what he knows God would do,
were God apprised of all the facts of the case.
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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Wanted: StarOffice 5.1 CD

2000-07-23 Thread Renaud OLGIATI

Anyone here who has upgraded to 5.2 and would be ready to sell me his
StarOffice 5.1 CD ?

Please contact me off-list.

Cheers,

Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River.

-- 
 
Common sense is the knack of seeing things as they are,
   and doing things as they ought to be done.
   -- Josh Billings
 
  ---  http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati  ---
 

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