Re: [biofuels-biz] Straighter-than-straight vegetable oils as diesel fuels
Dear Michael Allen, I read your very interesting report of using plant oil in mobile diesel engines. I am interested to post your report with some photos in the Jatropha website www.jatropha.org. If you dont mind, I would like to ask you for some photos (paper or electronic) and your e-mail address, so interested people can contact you. Kind regards Reinhard Henning Michael Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Our work is of an out-reach nature as well. Part of our objective is to stabilise prices that farmers can receive for their products. *Some background on Southern Thailand Agriculture* Here in southern Thailand the major agricutural products are rubber (and rubber-wood) and palm-oil. Prawns are grown in ecologically disastrous ponds when the price is right. Rice is not extensively grown locally because the climate produces only two good crops a year. The highly photogenic Asian water-buffalo has been largely replaced by the diesel-powered two-wheeled tractor. Fishing is also a sizable industry and uses diesel engines attached to a long-shafted propeller (the long-tail) for in-shore fishing or big grunty diesels in purpose-built vessels for long-line squid fishing etc. Farmers and fishermen have experimented with SVO and SVO blends with kerosene for many years now but both refined coconut oil and refined palm-oil can be sold at a price which is comparable with diesel. Reliable facts on pollution and engine damage produced by crude vegetable oil (CVO . . . . Crook Vegetable Oil?) experimentation are hard to come by due to the general enthusiasm of the proponent entrepreneurs who are naturally somewhat coy about discussing their failures. In August 2000, I was asked if straight palm-oil could be used to run diesel engines. Based on some work with which I was associated in New Zealand, I assured my colleagues at the Prince of Songkla University that it could. (Hell! We had fired up diesels on butter and biogas in New Zealand! I was on a sure thing here!) So we ran a Kubota diesel on 50:50 SVO:petrodiesel, then 80:20 and then 100:0. Based on this, we applied for financial support to find out just how much refining was (un)necessary to make an acceptable diesel fuel. Over a year, we ran seven diesel engines on palm-oil: 3 were in field tests on actual tractors or fishing boats, one was in a home-made truck which delivers fertiliser off-road, and three were in test-beds here at the University. They were all identical in design: And they all had to be run in on petro-diesel because they were all equally new. In the test beds, we used a standard test based on the Japanese standards for agricultural diesels. (don't have the designation to hand). The only engine modification was to bring the exhaust out through the fuel tank and fit a small plastic tank and associated valves to start up the engine (and shut it down) on petrodiesel. We measured fuel economy under a variety of engine loads (achieved with an alternator and electric light bulbs). We looked at air pollution and volumetric efficiency amongst other parameters. After 500 hours of continuous use, we shut them down, took them to bits, re-weighed the engine pieces (valves, pistons, rings, bearings) and examined them visually. And now the bit that you are all interested in: The engines worked just fine on refined palm oil. That is oil which has been de-gummed with phosphoric acid and had fatty acids removed by saponification with sodium hydroxide. Yes folks! Sadly, you do need some chemicals and simple process engineering to make most vegetable oils work. Just because you don't do it in the back-yard doesn't mean that it has not been done --- perhaps in one of those big centralised processing plants we all despise :-) We discontinued the trial after 2000 hours of running (with the engine hardly missing a beat). Now, as I said, the process of refining puts the finished product into a price category comparable with the retail price of petrodiesel (including some tax). In Thai currency, this is about 12 to 13 baht/litre with diesel oscillating around 14 to 16 baht/litre depending somewhat on who the US is threatening today. To the oil farmer, his crude palm oil (CPO or perhaps CVO if you prefer to distinguish it from the SVO even though it is actually straighter than straight ) may be worth only 2 or 3 baht/litre so quite obviously, the less refining needed, the more competitive it should be (at least in an economic sense.) But CPO may contain between 2 and 14% FFA whereas refined palm oil contains less than 1% (usually about .5%). CPO is like Brasso metal cleaning fluid --- yellow and waxy with suspended stearin. Refined palm oil is a clean and bright liquid. Carrying out the comparable continuous engine trials with CPO, our first engine lasted less than 300 hours before it packed in with a big cloud of black smoke and an even
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
Dear Andrew Hoppin, It sounds interesting. I prefer ther use of straight plant oil (unmodified) instead of biodiesel. But anyway you need a lot of oil. And I think the oil from perennial plants give a higher net yield. So I am promoting the plant Jatropha curcas, or phisic nut, a shrub which grows in tropical or subtropical regions with more than 600 mm of rainfall. The oil you can use directly in modified diesel engines, or as bio-diesel. In the bio-diesel case you also need big amounts of alcohol (methanol ar aethanol), and you will end up in a centralised technology (economy f scale). See the website explaining The Jatropha System at www.jatropha.org Kind regards Reinhard Henning Andrew Hoppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: New to this list, and extremely impressed with the lucid, creative, and altruistic ideas being generated and shared. Way to go! I'm on board with all the compelling environmental motivations for using biodiesel, but to be honest what drove me here (after years of working as an environmental scientist in other realms and being only casually interested in energy), was the geopolitics of fossil fuels... The prospect of making fossil fuels obsolete before they become truly in short supply I believe could spare the world a lot of bloodshed, and could help instill confidence that our respective governments are executing their foreign policy on the basis of reasons other than jousting for control of limited energy reserves. The idea of contributing to efforts to this end greatly inspires me. So, with that inspiration, I've decided to take on organizing a community-driven project of modest scope but dramatic potential that will contribute in direct or indirect ways to events or actions that reduce the dependence of industrialized nations on fossil fuels. Outreach efforts about biodiesel seem to me like they could be a possible great choice (petitioning fast-food chains to make their waste available? getting New York City government vehicle fleets to use biodiesel?), but you on this list know far more than I about what specific projects could make a difference, and I respectfully and eagerly await your input. Andrew Hoppin N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.226.4550 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
Hallo Keith, Thank you for your excellent arguments. Why do I prefer SVO? 1) I worked 15 years in Africa promoting renewable energies. There the use of SVO is much easier than bio-diesel, because the only tool you need is an oil press. The extraction of oil and its purification is just simpler than a chemical process. So the villagers can produce the fuel for the engine to drive a flower mill in the village with a village technology. The production of biodiesel is more complex and you need raw materials and technology and know how. I think in the developing countries bio-diesel will be produced in the towns. 2) I agree with you, that biodiesel is a good method to use waste veg oil as an energy source. But if the biodiesel prduction will grow and leaves the kitchens, i. e. if it will be produced commercially, the economy of scale will have a big influence on the price. If you think of the kitchen technology, you don't calculate the price of labor, do you? 3) I agree with you, that both methods are good, and both should be supported. I try to argue against fossil fuel, not against bio-diesel. But if possible, I prefer SVO. Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello Reinhard Dear Andrew Hoppin, It sounds interesting. I prefer ther use of straight plant oil (unmodified) instead of biodiesel. But anyway you need a lot of oil. And I think the oil from perennial plants give a higher net yield. So I am promoting the plant Jatropha curcas, or phisic nut, a shrub which grows in tropical or subtropical regions with more than 600 mm of rainfall. The oil you can use directly in modified diesel engines, or as bio-diesel. In the bio-diesel case you also need big amounts of alcohol (methanol ar aethanol), and you will end up in a centralised technology (economy f scale). Why do you say that? I see other Germans and Europeans also say that when comparing biodiesel to straight vegetable oil fuel. SVO decentralized, biodiesel centralized. It just isn't true, as thousands upon thousands of small-scale, localized biodieselers can attest, in many countries, including Germany. At the Biofuel list at the moment there's an interesting discussion on just this subject: biodiesel and the need to decentralize energy production. Nobody is suggesting that biodiesel production need be centralized, quite the opposite. On the other hand, there are centralized factories in Europe producing straight vegetable oil refined as fuel. Both biodiesel and straight vegetable oil can be either centralized or decentralized, it is not a valid comparison between them. You can make high-quality biodiesel in your kitchen, many people do. Making biodiesel does require alcohol and a catalyst and some minimal equipment, but no specialized knowledge. It's easy and doesn't take much time. In the US, and many other countries, virgin vegetable oil (unused, uncooked) is more expensive than petro-diesel. Biodiesel made from waste oil (3 to 4 billion gallons of waste oil a year in the US), including all costs, works out at less than 60c a gallon, much cheaper than petro-diesel. High-quality biodiesel can easily be made from very poor quality waste oil which is probably not suitable for use as fuel in a straight vegetable oil system. I'm NOT saying that biodiesel is better than SVO, but some of the false claims of the SVO people put me in this false position when trying to correct them. This is fairly typical: The [biodiesel] process to chemically change the structure of Pure Plant Oil is a very costly operation and requires a lot of energy, as it removes the glycerine substituting it by methanol as well as adding other chemicals, making the end-product poisonous and equally hazardous as fossil diesel fuel. It's not costly, it's not energy-intensive, biodiesel is less toxic than table salt, about the same as vegetable oil, and to say it's as hazardous as fossil diesel fuel is just ignorant, or worse: it's MUCH cleaner burning, it's CO2 neutral, the emissions carry 90% less cancer risk, and its production is non-polluting. And it's better for the engine. Biodiesel does have some distinct advantages over SVO: it can be used in any diesel motor without modification, whereas SVO is not suitable for DI diesels short of a full-scale Elsbett conversion; using biodiesel is exactly the same as using petro-diesel - no starting on one fuel and then switching to another, and the same when stopping; and biodiesel has a great deal of research to support it, and many millions of road miles, whereas SVO is not thoroughly researched, and even authoritative emissions data is lacking. Nonetheless, I see the two fuels as complementary - the usual two-tank heated SVO systems make best sense when you use biodiesel as the start-stop fuel, and poor-quality oil that's not suitable for SVO use can be turned
Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: Hydrogen Economy greatly overrated, biomass underrated...
You forgot to mention, that the production of hydrogen is an enery sink, i. e. for the production of 1 kW of Hydrogen enery you need 1,5 kW of traditional (nuclear, fossil, sun) energy. You better use that energy directly. Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Forward from the stoves list at Crest. Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Tom Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Hydrogen Economy greatly overrated, biomass underrated... Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:18:03 -0600 Organization: BEF Dear All Biomassers: The message below from my good friend Tom Milne, Bob Evans and all anouncing a new report on hydrogen needs to be put in context. Speaking as a fuel scientist, I hope I may be permitted a personal diatribe in this forum. If you are emotionally convinced that hydrogen is the world's best fuel, and wish to stay convinced, delete this message. . ~ HYDROGEN has been known and used since the early part of the 19th century. It is easy to make in the laboratory from iron and HCL or by electrolysis. Hydrogen is unique amongst the elements with outstandingly good and bad properties. As a fuel it has the highest Mass Energy Density of any fuel by a large margin, so liquid hydrogen isn't too bad a fuel if you can afford the cost and keep it well insulated. As a gas it also has a very low Volume energy density (same as CO, 1/3 that of methane). It is an important component of synthesis gas (CO + H2) and producer gas (CO + H2 + N2). Hydrogen also has a flame velocity (2.83 m/s in air compared to .5 m/s for methane, propane etc.). For this reason it is a difficult automotive fuel, since stoichiometric combustion produces hydrogen knock. However, it has the widest flamability limits so can be burned very lean for better efficiency. Another hydrogen problem I haven't heard discussed is that it contracts chemically 1/3 on burning according to H2 + 1/2 O2 [1.5 moles or voumes] === H2O [1 mole] by contrast, methane gets full value, since CH4 + 2 O2 [3 moles] === CO2 + 2 H2O [3moles] ~~~ Hydrogen is an important chemical for converting vegetable oils to margarine etc. and is widely used in large chemical plants. Electrolysis of water to make hydrogen is only 72% efficient (due to high overvoltage), and conversion of heat to electricity is typically 30% efficient, so electrolysis is 18% base efficiency. Hydrogen can be made from methane and hydrocarbons using steam reforming and the water gas shift reaction - probably 80% efficient. So for 150 years pure hydrogen was only used by quartz workers. However, many gases, including our producer gas, can contain large fractions of hydrogen - 18% in our current producer gas at CPC. So how has hydrogen risen so high in research circles as a target fuel? It all started with The Hydrogen Economy about 1970. At that time we were naively told that nuclear electric power would be too cheap to meter in a short time (Ha!). But you can't run a car on electricity so we would still need a fuel tank. Since power had no cost, hydrogen from water would have no cost! Voila. I remember hearing these arguments at the first Hydrogen Economy conference held appropriately at the Playboy Club in Miami about 1974. We have since become disenchanted with the nuclear energy side of this argument, but dreamers still talk of hydrogen combustion being non polluting and therefore the ultimate fuel. Today's cars are amazingly clean compared to those of the smoggy ''70s, so they are relatively non polluting in the atmospheric sense. However our current fossil fuels do increase atmospheric CO2 levels so can be considered polluting from a global warming perspective. Don't worry, the oil will be gone soon at the present rate of usage/wastage. For a REALISTIC view on hydrogen, check out.. http://www.nrel.gov/ncpv/hotline/pdf/hydrogen_economy.pdf Your Skeptical Fuel Scientist,TOM REED BEF GASWORKS - Original Message - From: Milne, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Milne, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 12:36 PM Subject: GAS-L: RE: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address -Original Message- From: Milne, Thomas Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 11:27 AM To: mailto:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]''[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; mailto:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]''[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; mailto:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]''[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; mailto:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]''[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: FW: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address Interested parties may access our recent IEA report, Hydrogen from Biomass--State of the Art and Research Challenges, at the WEB address listed below. The authors would welcome corrections
Re: [biofuel] Re: SVO versus BD
This are some of the reasons why I suggest to use SVO in engines. So you have to look for the right engines and modify them. Regards Reinhard Henning sabjii [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hi, I am following the SVO vs Biodiesel debate which seems to be pretty hot in Germany and other European countries. I do understand that the end-product Bio-Diesel is similar to SVO in terms of emissions, and better in cold conditions and also better researched, and better supported by car companies. One also does not have to change the existing diesel motor in the car. However, I am a bit disturbed knowing that the raw materials for making biodiesel - methanol and potassium hydroxide - are both pretty dangerous chemicals. This is not really what inspires local and decentralized production. (I know that many enthusiasts still do it.) Moreover, methanol seems to be almost exclusively produced from fossil fuels in most countries today (even though it might be possible to produce it from other renewable bio sources). Production, handling and transportation of chemicals like methanol and potassium hydroxide must be taking considerable energy and must also be in the hands of big chemical companies which are usually reluctant to take measures against polluting the environment. If all the above is true (so it seems to me), I cannot use biodiesel with the satisfaction of having driven clean of fossil fuels and big polluting oil and chemical companies. I would like to know roughly about the percentage of biodiesel manufacturers that use ethanol (less dangerous and more independent of fossil fuels). Is the process of manufacturing with ethanol replacing that with methanol? I had really wished that bio-diesel was a development free of fossil fuels and big oil and chemical companies (at all stages of the process). I would be happy if someone convinces me that it is. brotherly Pranav Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Plant Information
get in touch with Sucher Holzer, an Austrian consulting experienced in small BD-plants: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards Reinhard Henning marcohgcardoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I have being reading many fantastic histories and sugestions here. This, make me bring this question here and I hope anyone can help me. I am looking for a basic plant to make around 10.000 liters month of BD. I intend to use sunflower oil, soybean oil and other vegetable oil together with used vegetable oil from the food market. Is there any company that offer a basic plant to process it? I would like to use Ethanol instead of Methanol. In the same time, is there any consultant or organization who provide information to help us to build this plant? tks, Marco Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] svo/wvo genset
Please contact Elsbett Technology http://www.elsbett.com/ag/pages/um-generatoren.htm The have a long experience with SVO driven gensets. The railway engine driven with SVO you may visit at URL: http://www.prignitzer-eisenbahn.de/pflanzen.html Regards Reinhard Henning [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: hello all I have looked at the archives, and now ask is there anyone on list or off that I may be referred to, that has info on genset operation for vegoil. I have a 33kw diesel genset as a test project, with 600kw onsite permanently if testing goes through well. I am looking for long term data, problems, and proven longevity. I have the oil I am looking for the expertise. Thank you all in advance Erik Eisenman Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Renewable Energy Development In Cuba - biodiesel?
Well, I was in Cuba in 1992 (Special period). It seems something changed. That is good. Regards Reinhard Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello Reinhard It seems the Cubans are sticking to their ideology, that everything there comes from sugar cane. Well, no, not really. The link I gave came from this site: http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/cuba/sustainable/index.html Cuba Campaign: Eco Cuba Exchange Have a look at the Organic Agriculture and Natural and Traditional Medicine sections. They have all the resources (climate, land, Jatropha) to grow oil plants and the possibility to use it directly in truck engines (IFA-trucks from former East Germany) without conversion. But nothing happens. Progress is a snail! They've made some quite extraordinary progress in some directions. Jatropha is an excellent oil plant, but no matter how excellent it is, I think a top-down, one-solution approach just wouldn't work there, and could be disastrous if that meant they abandoned further efforts at natural oils for fuel. It's a perfect set-up for the niche approach, highly localized, and that always means variety, options should have as much variety possible. They could probably succeed with this to the same spectacular extent they've succeeded with micro-farming and organics, which would be a real eye-opener for the rest of the world, as their organics success is proving to be. Even to Americans. But it requires an extremely localized approach, with local people fully involved in all the decisions, nothing decreed or imposed from above, except encouragement. Regards Keith Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: http://tlent.home.igc.org/renewable%20energy%20in%20cuba.html Renewable Energy Development In Cuba: Sustainability Responds To Economic Crisis April, 1997 ... Cuban annual per capita energy consumption has dropped to about four barrels of oil equivalent, half of what it was before the Special Period. By comparison, the U.S. uses the equivalent of 59 barrels of oil per person annually This is somewhat out of date, and there's no mention of biodiesel. I've read elsewhere that recycling of waste oil and fats into biodiesel is at a high level, but I see no more about it. Does anyone have more info on this? By the way, there's a study tour to Cuba being organized on the topic of: SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE: Cuba's Unprecedented Conversion to Organic Agriculture Contact: U.S. Mailing Address: Global Exchange Cuba - Sustainable Development/Sarah Dotlich 2017 Mission Street, Suite #303 San Francisco, CA 94708 Phone 415-255-7296, ext 231 This should include sustainable and renewable energy. If not, why not? Regards Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Renewable Energy Development In Cuba - biodiesel?
It seems the Cubans are sticking to their ideology, that everything there comes from sugar cane. They have all the resources (climate, land, Jatropha) to grow oil plants and the possibility to use it directly in truck engines (IFA-trucks from former East Germany) without conversion. But nothing happens. Progress is a snail! Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: http://tlent.home.igc.org/renewable%20energy%20in%20cuba.html Renewable Energy Development In Cuba: Sustainability Responds To Economic Crisis April, 1997 ... Cuban annual per capita energy consumption has dropped to about four barrels of oil equivalent, half of what it was before the Special Period. By comparison, the U.S. uses the equivalent of 59 barrels of oil per person annually This is somewhat out of date, and there's no mention of biodiesel. I've read elsewhere that recycling of waste oil and fats into biodiesel is at a high level, but I see no more about it. Does anyone have more info on this? By the way, there's a study tour to Cuba being organized on the topic of: SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE: Cuba's Unprecedented Conversion to Organic Agriculture Contact: U.S. Mailing Address: Global Exchange Cuba - Sustainable Development/Sarah Dotlich 2017 Mission Street, Suite #303 San Francisco, CA 94708 Phone 415-255-7296, ext 231 This should include sustainable and renewable energy. If not, why not? Regards Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Use of cattail in Australia
Dear Keith, Thank you very much for the description. That was exact what I was looking for. Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello Reinhard The following comes to you via a circuitous route, I won't bore you with the details. I hope the information is less boring. Keith Use of Cattail in Australia Managing Excessive Aquatic Plant Growth in a Lake Down-Under, Build it and They Shall Proliferate Danny Roberts, Geoff Sainty, Sharon Cummins and Geoff Hunter, Sainty Associates, Lars Anderson, NSW Australia, and Lars Anderson, USDA UC-Davis, Davis, CA The Sydney International Regatta Centre is a $A40 million dollar facility located at Penrith NSW, Australia. It consists of two interconnected shallow lakes, with a capacity of around 2000 megalitres. The rowing lake is 2.3 km long and 170 m wide and has a maximum depth of 5.5m whilst the warm-up lake has an average depth of 3m and a convoluted shoreline. The two lakes are used for training and rowing events up to and during the Sydney 2000 Olympic games and form the rowing heart of Sydney. Adjoining these two lakes and drawing its water from them is the white water slalom course for the Olympics. When the rowing course was originally constructed, the lakes were planted with ribbonweed Vallisneria americana var. americana (Michaux), with the intent to establish a basis for a healthy aquatic plant assemblage, which was capable of out-competing invasive macrophyte species and nuisance blue-green algae. Over the past few years, the aquatic plant assemblages have flourished, with six additional native species colonizing the lakes. In March 1997, ribbonweed began to break away at its base and float to the surface. This defoliation caused major problems for management of the lakes and its primary users, as floating leaves interfered with rowing and swimming events. To alleviate the problem, ribbonweed was physically removed and mechanical harvesting has been the primary management tool used to keep the plants under control. A program of monitoring was established in 1997, where spatial and temporal patterns in the distribution and abundance of submerged aquatic macrophytes were measured over two years. This program found that harvesting was ineffective, in terms of keeping plant biomass to a manageable level. In this paper we report the results of the monitoring program and present some preliminary data on a management experiment, which used the herbicide fluridone to help reduce plant growth in conjunction with physical and mechanical removal. I am working on the carbonisation and briketting of cattail (Typha spec.) to substitute charcoal in West Africa (see also http://www.typha.net). I learned from sombody, that for the preparation of the Olypics in Australia the organisers had to clean a big water surface from Typha, because it was needed for the games. For this reason they invented a real chain of harvesting and use (chatcoal-substitute?), including different machines. Is anybody familiar with this and / or could somebody give me some addresses, where I could get some more information? Regards Reinhard Henning -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Use of cattail in Australia
I am working on the carbonisation and briketting of cattail (Typha spec.) to substitute charcoal in West Africa (see also http://www.typha.net). I learned from sombody, that for the preparation of the Olypics in Australia the organisers had to clean a big water surface from Typha, because it was needed for the games. For this reason they invented a real chain of harvesting and use (chatcoal-substitute?), including different machines. Is anybody familiar with this and / or could somebody give me some addresses, where I could get some more information? Regards Reinhard Henning -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Use of cattail in Australia
I am working on the carbonisation and briketting of cattail (Typha spec.) to substitute charcoal in West Africa (see also http://www.typha.net). I learned from sombody, that for the preparation of the Olypics in Australia the organisers had to clean a big water surface from Typha, because it was needed for the games. For this reason they invented a real chain of harvesting and use (chatcoal-substitute?), including different machines. Is anybody familiar with this and / or could somebody give me some addresses, where I could get some more information? Regards Reinhard Henning -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Renewable Energy Transportation
Ther is plenty of wasteland where you can grow oil crops. This in connection with economic use of energy will lead us further. Reinhard Henning womplex_oo1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: How to maintain our freedom to travel when oil supplies run out is a big problem. Renewable fuels are available in such small quantities that it won't be economical to use vehicles that get less than 200 miles/gal fuel economy, and the only way to achieve that range is to make cars smaller, lighter, slower, and able to use multiple fuels. Cargo-proporational transportation is composed of a car that is just large enough to carry its intended cargo. If the main purpose is to carry a person over long distances, then a vehicle not much bigger than a bicycle is used; if it carries extra gear then an aerodynamic cargo trailer is used. The choice of vehicles was a Greenspeed or Windcheetah recumbant tricycle with airflow fairings: Windcheetah: http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/MEDIA/Gt.jpg Greenspeed: http://www.greenspeed.com.au/RedReflexa384.JPG This vehicle can tow up to 100 lbs of cargo using tow-trailers such as these: http://www.bykaboose.com/trailers/newt-specs.html This vehicle would be retrofit with a small 5-10 horsepower single- cylinder Briggs Stratton Model 20 engine: http://www.briggsracing.com/racing_engines/sae_intek.html American Carberetion sells do-it-yourself conversion kits for this engine to allow it to burn gasoline, propane or natural gas. http://www.uscarburetion.com/ Since it can burn natural gas, it also isn't much of a stretch to get it to burn hydrogen. But hydrogen is expensive, and storage is heavy. For example Quantum Inc. sells 5000 psi compressed natural gas and hydrogen cylinders that store up to 11.3 wt% hydrogen, that is a 100-lb tank can hold 11.3 lbs hydrogen. Besides the weight however compressed gases can be dangerous, and the electrolysis and compressor are extremely expensive. A safer hydrogen storage method is available from Millennium Cell (www.millenniumcell.com) who have a liquefied hydrogen storage medium that achieves 8-wt% hydrogen storage capacity in a far safer way, but at greater weight. Given the fact that hydrogen cannot be manufactured in very large quantities, using it in vehicles as fuel would necessitate a reduction in the size of the vehicle. To use any renewable fuel the same size reduction is necessary to increase the range, so it may be that a biofuel such as ethanol is still superior to hydrogen. Therefore I should modify the engine to run either gasoline or ethanol, depending on the cost availability at the pumps. I estimate that a motorized recumbant trike would get upwards of 200 mpg fuel economy, but to be pessimistic let's say it gets 100 mpg (far better than most vehicles). If I drive 60 miles per day, 5 days per week, to my place of employment, then I would consume at most 3 gal/wk of fuel for transportation. My question is: 1. How much would an adequate homebrew ethanol plant cost? 2. Is it possible to run the homebrew plant on solar power, without burning extra biomass for heat? 3. How big a greenhouse would be needed to grow enough biomass to be fermented? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Is Sewage Fertilizer Too Toxic? Fossil Fuels?
Tis is a common technology. But it needs a lot of energy, because usually the sludge is 95 % of water. Reinhard Henning harmonseaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: So what about gasification of biosolids? I'd think that would essentially concentrate any heavy metals in the ash, which could either be put in a toxic waste dump, or, preferably, have the metals extracted and sold. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Is Sewage Fertilizer Too Toxic?
In Germany sewage sludge usually has a too high heavy metall content to be used either in agriculture or in vegetable gardens. And you don't want to enrich your flowers with heavy metals. Reinhard Henning MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Is Sewage Fertilizer Too Toxic? Living On Earth http://www.loe.org/archives/020710.php Sewage sludge, the solid remains after water from waste processing plants is removed, has for years been used as fertilizer on parks, golf courses, even home gardens. People around the country are now complaining that the application of sludge to nearby land is making them sick. Living on Earth talked to geologist Ellen Harrison, a member of the National Academy of Sciences, which recently released a report that is highly critical of the use of sewage sludge as fertilizer. MP3 http://www.loe.org/audio/today/020710loetoday1.mp3 RealPlayer http://realserver.bu.edu:8080/ramgen/w/b/wbur/livingonearth/today/wed1.smil?mode=compact `` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD
Thanks, Keith, for the reply. I agree with you. SVO and BD users should be informed about the pro and contra arguments and then make their choice. And I think it is important to see the long term options. Kind regards Reinhard Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Reinhard Henning wrote: Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. The proviso is critical, and in many cases it's context-sensitive - I believe this is the case with the biodiesel vs SVO argument. In the end it boils down to a matter of particular circumstances and individual preferences. This in mind one should compare the two actual possibilities to use plant oil as fuel: 1) adaptation of the oil to the engine (bio-diesel, BD) 2) modification of the engine to run on pure plant oil (straight vegetable oil, svo) Plant oil is pure stored solar energy in its densiest form (9,2 kg /l). It contains only the elements carbon C, hydrogen H and oxygen O. In the simplest way it is produced only by grinding of seeds and pressing (ram presses, expellers) it. Purification by sedimentation and / or filtration: Can somebody imagine a simpler method of producing highly concentrated, environmentally friendly energy. In a short term planning, it is interesting to use biodiesel, because you can use the already existing car engines. But in a longer perspective, it is more interesting to adapt the engines to run on pure plant oil (SVO). And you have all the advantages of an decentralized fuekl production. And you dont need a chemical workshop to produce your own fuele at home. A ram press for about 200 $ and some plastc barrel is all you need. That is not convincing Reinhard. In the future more diesels will probably be adapted to SVO use, but that will leave millions of vehicles all over the world not so adapted, bringing us back to the same choice between making biodiesel and rigging a two-tank system with heating etc to use SVO... on some vehicles, maybe not on others, whereas biodiesel will work in any diesel. There is also a shortage of good, long-term studies on the effects of using SVO, unlike with biodiesel, and no long-term studies on the use of WVO that I'm aware of. None of the European manufacturers of SVO systems covers the use of WVO, right? Biodiesel also gives you the advantage of decentralised fuel production. There is no need to have a chemical workshop to produce biodiesel at home. It is simple. $200 would more than cover the costs of everything needed to make biodiesel, and no need for a ram press. For the mean time, you can convert your diesel engines into plant oil engines (the still run on diesel). The conversion kits are not expensive, but they are a bit different for one engine or the other. (The Mercedes 123 engine doesn't have to be modified at all. You just run it with SVO. If its cold, you add some diesel. Some kits are better than others. Some kits are not to be recommended at all. Some manufacturers claim their kits are suitable for any diesel in any climate, using WVO, and this is not true. But people buy these kits anyway, and there are plenty of stories of ruined pumps. Again, I know of no such stories with biodiesel use. And WVO remains a problem. If this valuable waste resource, used by many or most small-scale biodiesel makers, is to be used in straight SVO systems it has to be pre-treated, with not much less processing required than that needed to make biodiesel. And you still won't have the guaranteed results that biodiesel will give you. In Germany, the producer of the tractors for agriculture are already very interested to offer SVO-versions of their diersel engines to the farmers (Deutz, John Deere). So in a short future, probably the truck engine producers will do the same and later the car engine producers. Which still leaves the older motors, especially in the Third World. Another important argument for the use of SVO instead of BD is the energy input for its production. With BD it is about 1/3, i.e. you need about 30% of the energy of 1 litre of BD to produce 1 litre of BD (in form of Merthanol or aethanol, chemicals, destillation/purification). That depends very much on how it's done, and in what setting. For the production of SVO you need only about 15 % (12 % for agriculture, 3 % for oil extraction). If you use ecological advanced production methods, you can reduce these 12 % considerably. Your second sentence applies to on-farm biodiesel production too. I have some arguments with Schrimpff's chart as well. Ernst Schrimpff of the Tecnical College of Weihenstephan, Germany, listed 8 parameters to compare SVO with BD. Here his list (partly): see also the attachment or: http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/svo-bd-characteristics.htm Plant oil (SVO
Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil
Hallo Mark, I think biodiesel can be used easily in wick type stoves and lamps. SVO on the other hand cannot be used with wicks, because its viscosity is too high, it does not get transported by the capillary forces, like kerosene. I tried to explain this facts in a small drawing, which you can visit at: http://jatropha.org/lamps/princ-burning.htm Since SVO is not vaporizing like kerosene, and is not replaced by new material by capillary forces in the wick, the wick itself burns and has to be replaced quite often. The SVO molekules are cracked by the heat of the flame, and a carbon deposit is formed. After some hours the flame fades, because the supply of SVO via the carbon layer is diminishing. Regards Reinhard Henning girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel system (biodiesel + SVO) would probably work too but since hot water is used sporadically, for only a few minutes at a time, it wouldn't be practical. However, there are boilers (here in Japan at least) that are specifically designed to be capable of burning WVO. The Petromax lantern and similar designs (Chinese imitations, etc.) will work fine with biodiesel (and most other flammable liquids, including ethanol); however they produce such an intensely bright light that you probably wouldn't want to use one inside your home. (Especially in hot weather!) You can also get cookstoves that are based on the Petromax design and I'm sure they work well. You could probably build a simple but effective hot water heater around these. There is also the old standby Perfection type cookstove but since they use wicks I assume (based on what I have read) that biodiesel won't work with them. -- Chris Witmer Tokyo mark fire wrote: Could someone post some info about experiences using biodiesel or SVO for home heating oil? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD
Thanks for the useful information and the links Reinhard Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I strongly agree with Keith. SVO vs biodiesel? Neither should be dismissed each has it's place. Is very dependant on the individual situation:- What engine? Resources available for processing oils or converting vehicles. Vehicle use patterns. Vehicle operator/owners preference etc. etc. Clearly biodiesel has the greatest short term opportunities especially for transportation fuels. There has been many reports of successful SVO systems and trouble free use. There have also been problems reported but this is not exclusive to SVO use - biodiesel users especially home brewers encounter problems also. The main difference as I see it is that biodiesel fuel has been extensively researched world wide in many different engines and made from many different oil feedstock's. SVO especially WVO use remains a bit of a grey area as far as hard scientific research goes. I have seen many studies looking at vegetable oils suitability. Most conclude SVO is to thick and brush it aside as unsuitable and instead study biodiesel. There are a few good studies of SVO out there on the web: (not many that cover pre heating the oil) -The much touted ACREVO project report - very good detailed research. http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm -Available on the web but I don't have the link handy. should be able to find it with a search engine (good news for IDI's running in Africa) FACT-Vol. 12. Solid Fuel Conversion for the Transportation Sector ASME 1991 TECHNICAL OVERVIEW OF VEGETABLE OIL AS A TRANSPORTATION FUEL Charles L. Peterson and Dick L. Auld Department of Agricultural Engineering University of Idaho Moscow, Idaho -Biocar site has a thesis research project into the use of their kit to run SVO. In German http://www.biocar.de/ Part English translation http://www.vegburner.co.uk/biocar.html (thank you Stephan) -Ed Beggs has his Renewable Oil Fuels... thesis available on his site http://www.biofuels.ca -Another one that I haven't got the link handy Waste Vegetable Oil As A Diesel Replacement Fuel Phillip Calais* and AR (Tony) Clark** * Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plenty more that go into blending vegetable oil with solvents, diesel, petrol etc. More information on SVO and WVO use is required. Does anyone know of any other scientific reports of SVO use or any studies in progress? There is the very useful FMSO Database of SVO vehicles in German. A great resource worth a look even if you can't read German http://www.fmso.de/ click on the Mehr als 300 Autos in der: Fahrzeugdatenbank! link Darren Hill www.vegburner.co.uk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 July 2002 18:33 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD Reinhard Henning wrote: Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. The proviso is critical, and in many cases it's context-sensitive - I believe this is the case with the biodiesel vs SVO argument. In the end it boils down to a matter of particular circumstances and individual preferences. This in mind one should compare the two actual possibilities to use plant oil as fuel: 1) adaptation of the oil to the engine (bio-diesel, BD) 2) modification of the engine to run on pure plant oil (straight vegetable oil, svo) Plant oil is pure stored solar energy in its densiest form (9,2 kg /l). It contains only the elements carbon C, hydrogen H and oxygen O. In the simplest way it is produced only by grinding of seeds and pressing (ram presses, expellers) it. Purification by sedimentation and / or filtration: Can somebody imagine a simpler method of producing highly concentrated, environmentally friendly energy. In a short term planning, it is interesting to use biodiesel, because you can use the already existing car engines. But in a longer perspective, it is more interesting to adapt the engines to run on pure plant oil (SVO). And you have all the advantages of an decentralized fuekl production. And you dont need a chemical workshop to produce your own fuele at home. A ram press for about 200 $ and some plastc barrel is all you need. That is not convincing Reinhard. In the future more diesels will probably be adapted to SVO use, but that will leave millions of vehicles all over the world not so adapted, bringing us back to the same choice between making biodiesel and rigging a two-tank system with heating etc to use SVO... on some vehicles, maybe not on others, whereas biodiesel will work in any diesel. There is also a shortage of good, long-term studies
[biofuels-biz] SVO versus BD
Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. This in mind one should compare the two actual possibilities to use plant oil as fuel: 1) adaptation of the oil to the engine (bio-diesel, BD) 2) modification of the engine to run on pure plant oil (straight vegetable oil, svo) Plant oil is pure stored solar energy in its densiest form (9,2 kg /l). It contains only the elements carbon C, hydrogen H and oxygen O. In the simplest way it is produced only by grinding of seeds and pressing (ram presses, expellers) it. Purification by sedimentation and / or filtration: Can somebody imagine a simpler method of producing highly concentrated, environmentally friendly energy. In a short term planning, it is interesting to use biodiesel, because you can use the already existing car engines. But in a longer perspective, it is more interesting to adapt the engines to run on pure plant oil (SVO). And you have all the advantages of an decentralized fuekl production. And you dont need a chemical workshop to produce your own fuele at home. A ram press for about 200 $ and some plastc barrel is all you need. For the mean time, you can convert your diesel engines into plant oil engines (the still run on diesel). The conversion kits are not expensive, but they are a bit different for one engine or the other. (The Mercedes 123 engine doesn't have to be modified at all. You just run it with SVO. If its cold, you add some diesel. In Germany, the producer of the tractors for agriculture are already very interested to offer SVO-versions of their diersel engines to the farmers (Deutz, John Deere). So in a short future, probably the truck engine producers will do the same and later the car engine producers. Another important argument for the use of SVO instead of BD is the energy input for its production. With BD it is about 1/3, i.e. you need about 30% of the energy of 1 litre of BD to produce 1 litre of BD (in form of Merthanol or aethanol, chemicals, destillation/purification). For the production of SVO you need only about 15 % (12 % for agriculture, 3 % for oil extraction). If you use ecological advanced production methods, you can reduce these 12 % considerably. Ernst Schrimpff of the Tecnical College of Weihenstephan, Germany, listed 8 parameters to compare SVO with BD. Here his list (partly): see also the attachment or: http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/svo-bd-characteristics.htm Plant oil (SVO) biodiesel (BD) 1) Physical characteristics: physical density0,90 - 0,92 0,88 viscosity 60 - 80 7 - 8 ignition point 220 135 2) Chemical characteristics: phosphate mg/kg 15 15 sulphur mg/kg10 10 Chem. reaction neutral, very low hygroscopic, solvent, fast reaction 3) Production: principle decentralized small central, big industrial units oil expellers chemical compounds needed - methanol, potassium hydroxyd energy input12 %29 % 5) Transport / storage no risk small risk 6) Environment biol. degradation very fast delayed danger to water no small human toxicity regularly notoxic (or small) material circuitcomplete difficult to realize 7) Social acceptability strategysmall, decentralizedbig, central logistics simple komplex transportation short distances long distances vulnerability small higher regional income highlow generation 8) Costs fuel production 0,25 - 0,40 0,45 - 0,60 US$ fuel prices 0,45 - 0,55 0,70 - 0,85 US$ Interesting links to this SVO - DB - discussion are: http://www.vegburner.co.uk http://www.pflanzenoel-motor.de (German) http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/conversion-cars.htm http://elsbett.com/emotanfr.htm http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Kind regards Reinhard Henning -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups
Re: [biofuels-biz] SVO versus BD
Hello Roger, I don't have personal experience with the oil in the burner of heating systems. I am occupied with the use of plant oil in a small family stove for cooking purposes. During the preparation of the burner project it was clear, that SVO can be used without any problems in heating systems, because it is well distributed by the injection system and the air stream. You should try it with a bucket and a steadily growing percentage of SVO. Up to 100 %. With our svo cooking stoves, we have more problems. We cannot use external energy to produce an air stream. The only help is to give some pressure into the oil reservoir (Petromax system). If you use the petromax system with plant oil, you get a cracking of the molecules within the pipes, which block them in a short time. This man from Hohenheim university found a method to get around this problem, and he shows a very nice plant oil burner (approx. 3 kW), which gives a blue, smokeless flame (like LPG). Perhaps you can contact Carl Bielenberg. He lives in your area (Vermont) and is very familiar with plant oil. His phone number is: 001 802 456 89 93. Kind regards Reinhard Henning [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Reinhard, you make a persuasive argument and have me rethinking my current biodiesel efforts. do you or others have experience with burning SVO in a home heating oil burner,for domestic heat and hot water? my other observation is that here in the USA our winters are usually much more severe that in Europe. (at least in the northeast states ,where i live) this would seem to complicate cold weather vehicle operation.thank you for sharing you insights regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] home heating oil
Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. This in mind one should use plant oil as fuel directly: As far as I know there is no problem in using plant oil (SVO) directly in oil burner for home heating. You just do it. But usually the plant oil is more expensive than heating oil (mineral oil = diesel). The problem is with small units for cooking. But there is a solution now. Developed at the University of Hohenheim, Germany. visit: http://jatropha.org/cooker/index.html or download the description in English: http://home.t-online.de/home/320033440512-0002/downloads/planzenoelkocher-e.pdf Kind regards Reinhard Henning mark fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Could someone post some info about experiences using biodiesel or SVO for home heating oil? I know that this topic has probably been covered in the past, but it doesn't get as much attention as the use of biodiesel in vehicles does and as I don't use ome heating oil I haven't been paying attention, so apologies for any redundancy. I've been doing a bunch of work this month at a sort of 'community center' (www.centerpolefoundation.org) at the Crow Indian Reservation in Montana- it's insanely cold here in the winter, and though plenty of rich ranchers next door do drive newer diesels with all the gadgets and modifications for cold-weather operation, the people here on the reservation are incredibly poor and don't have too many (more expensive than gasoline cars here in the US) diesel vehicles anyway. The cold weather operation issues might be too much for some of the people here to deal with. But oil and kerosene heating is common and the furnaces and equipment are available used. People I've been working with are very interested in my biodiesel truck and the cost savings of my homemade fuel use, but for some of the people, it is just not the right technology at this time. I'm spending a lot of time with old folks who don't have the physical wherewithall to be making fuel, a lot of people who would nee! d more of a 'turnkey' system due to skills or materials availability, and, most of all, the information about making this stuff, getting past the learning curve, and other troubleshooting is just not as available to poor people without a great grasp of English and who don't spend time learning things from books and certainly not from the Internet. I am working here with a group of other builder friends and we are coming back next year to put up an outbuilding. It is small, and is primarily to be used for housing some composting toilets for the place (and also as the place is right by the Battle of Little Bighorn site, it is to be used to house an , um, 'exhibit' about Custer, and all the different things the Native AMericans called him, so you can be sure to think about Custer as you do your business in the bathrooms). The building is something like 400 square feet and strawbale, and we're doing the design for it right now. It seems like a small oil or kerosene burner would be perfect for this situation, operating either on SVO (ideal?) or on biodiesel that some homebrew bootlegger could supply once a year (though I'm a bit worried about longterm storage/algae growth issues too). It would have low fuel consumption as the heater would not run all day and night as in an ordinary house. I am looking for information about how well biodiesel actually works in a kerosene or home heating oil application, looking for actual experiences people have had with it- and for info about specifics- specific equipment, etc. I am also interested in any information about whether SVO use is possible in this situation. Thanks, Mark - Do You Yahoo!? New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free unlimited access [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email
[biofuel] SVO versus BD
Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. This in mind one should compare the two actual possibilities to use plant oil as fuel: 1) adaptation of the oil to the engine (bio-diesel, BD) 2) modification of the engine to run on pure plant oil (straight vegetable oil, svo) Plant oil is pure stored solar energy in its densiest form (9,2 kg /l). It contains only the elements carbon C, hydrogen H and oxygen O. In the simplest way it is produced only by grinding of seeds and pressing (ram presses, expellers) it. Purification by sedimentation and / or filtration: Can somebody imagine a simpler method of producing highly concentrated, environmentally friendly energy. In a short term planning, it is interesting to use biodiesel, because you can use the already existing car engines. But in a longer perspective, it is more interesting to adapt the engines to run on pure plant oil (SVO). And you have all the advantages of an decentralized fuekl production. And you dont need a chemical workshop to produce your own fuele at home. A ram press for about 200 $ and some plastc barrel is all you need. For the mean time, you can convert your diesel engines into plant oil engines (the still run on diesel). The conversion kits are not expensive, but they are a bit different for one engine or the other. (The Mercedes 123 engine doesn't have to be modified at all. You just run it with SVO. If its cold, you add some diesel. In Germany, the producer of the tractors for agriculture are already very interested to offer SVO-versions of their diersel engines to the farmers (Deutz, John Deere). So in a short future, probably the truck engine producers will do the same and later the car engine producers. Another important argument for the use of SVO instead of BD is the energy input for its production. With BD it is about 1/3, i.e. you need about 30% of the energy of 1 litre of BD to produce 1 litre of BD (in form of Merthanol or aethanol, chemicals, destillation/purification). For the production of SVO you need only about 15 % (12 % for agriculture, 3 % for oil extraction). If you use ecological advanced production methods, you can reduce these 12 % considerably. Ernst Schrimpff of the Tecnical College of Weihenstephan, Germany, listed 8 parameters to compare SVO with BD. Here his list (partly): see also the attachment or: http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/svo-bd-characteristics.htm Plant oil (SVO) biodiesel (BD) 1) Physical characteristics: physical density0,90 - 0,92 0,88 viscosity 60 - 80 7 - 8 ignition point 220 135 2) Chemical characteristics: phosphate mg/kg 15 15 sulphur mg/kg10 10 Chem. reaction neutral, very low hygroscopic, solvent, fast reaction 3) Production: principle decentralized small central, big industrial units oil expellers chemical compounds needed - methanol, potassium hydroxyd energy input12 %29 % 5) Transport / storage no risk small risk 6) Environment biol. degradation very fast delayed danger to water no small human toxicity regularly notoxic (or small) material circuitcomplete difficult to realize 7) Social acceptability strategysmall, decentralizedbig, central logistics simple komplex transportation short distances long distances vulnerability small higher regional income highlow generation 8) Costs fuel production 0,25 - 0,40 0,45 - 0,60 US$ fuel prices 0,45 - 0,55 0,70 - 0,85 US$ Interesting links to this SVO - DB - discussion are: http://www.vegburner.co.uk http://www.pflanzenoel-motor.de (German) http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/conversion-cars.htm http://elsbett.com/emotanfr.htm http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Kind regards Reinhard Henning -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups
Re: [biofuel] Free energy?
Use SVO. So you have enough free energy. And you don't depend on future research results Reinhard Henning James Field [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Does anyone know much about free energy? Theres a site however it doesn't go into enough detail. http://jnaudin.free.fr/ If anyone knows anything that could help me, or a better site to look then I'd be much abliged. -James - Relive the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights! http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ztNCyD/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Europeans extend excemption of biofuels from taxes
Energies, the present act will create the basis for the technological development of biofuels and a leading role for Germany in a market for future technology. Technical development can be expected on three levels at once: in the cultivation of vegetable raw materials, in conversion into biofuels and in propulsion technology. The demand on biofuels will create a market for innovative agro-technical products. This new market will create new opportunities for countries acceding to the EU, some of which have a strong agricultural sector. This will also lessen the pressure of competition on the German farmers from the farmers in the acceding countries. The above mentioned advantages on the new markets is naturally also valid for other countries which open up for the new opportunities in time. In contrast, if countries consciously obstruct the new technologies, they will be overtaken and sidetracked. Extracts of the new act and the explanatory memorandum concerning biofuels are available in German and English. Read also the press release from EUROSOLAR. Denmark still rejects biofuels. Denmark is still rejecting biofuels for transportation. The new government has inherited well known counterarguments such as Replacement of fossil fuels with biofuels is an expensive method to reduce the CO2 emission. Biomass should be reserved for co-generation because this is the cheapest way of utilising biomass in Denmark. The proposal from the EU will probably not increase the employment. The proposal can be considered as an attempt to indirectly support the agricultural sector. Utilisation of biofuels for transportation will lead to higher costs for transportation. Increased cultivation of biofuels on set-aside land will lead to negative impact on the environment. The improvement of security of fuel supplies will be limited. These arguments appear in an answer from the Danish Minister of Tax to the Committee of Tax in the Danish Government. As it appears, the Danish Government disagrees with its European colleges. The argument that biomass should be reserved for co-generation is a very narrow consideration, and the point in this is first of all that coal based power production with low efficiency are replaced by power and heat production from co-generation with high efficiency. But biomass covers a wide range of solutions, and many different technologies are necessary for utilising the different biomass product for the purpose which is most practical and reasonable seen in an overall perspective. As an example, Pure Plant Oil can be used directly in its natural form to substitute fossil diesel fuel, and the straw can be used for co-generation. In contrast, it is very extensive to convert the straw to engine fuel. With regards to biofuels Denmark is hopelessly behind. It is a fact that a stagnation in the world production of petroleum is just ahead of us, and that the clean technologies like hydrogen are still waiting in the far future. Therefore action has to be taken now. Hopefully the positive and well proved signals from the international political arena will be recognised and understood by the Danish Government, who with the Chairmanship of the EU has the opportunity to promote biofuels as a solution for today. This newsletter is available online on http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/PPOnews_04072002.htm Yes, please send me news about vegetable oil as fuel No, please don«t send me more news about vegetable oil as fuel Folkecenter for Renewable Energy Kammersgaardsvej 16, DK-7760 Hurup Thy, Denmark Web : www.folkecenter.dk , email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel : +45 97 95 66 00 , fax +45 97 95 65 65 -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Trains on Biodiesel - as mobile gensets
Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Here is another one, from the year 2000. German trains running on SVO (new rapeseed oil). 600 hp locomotive runs like clockwork on rapeseed oil World premier in Prignitz in Brandenburg A locomotive from the Prignitzer Eisenbahn-Gesellschaft (PEG) is the first locomotive in the world to run on rapeseed oil. The locomotive is used for shunting goods trains in Berlin. The PEG has acquired the license for the use of the regenerative raw material form the patent holder Klaus Elsbett from Thalmssing near Nrnberg. A PEG power car has been operating on pure vegetable oil since November. Now more and bigger model V 200 locomotives are to be converted. The large goods locomotives consume almost 5,000 litres of fuel daily. With a litre price for rapeseed oil of 0.30 euro, the conversion costs of around 7,600 euro per machine are amortised in a short period, according to PEG. PEG operates a rail network of 230 kilometres and achieves an output of 1.3 million train kilometres annually in passenger traffic. The rail company is also active in the goods traffic business. (PHOTO) The power car on the left was the test vehicle. In future the V 200 heavy goods locomotive will also be travelling with rapeseed oil. Ê additional information: www.prignitzer-eisenbahn.de Regards, Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 7/4/02 2:04 PM, Keith Addison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,53591,00.html Very cool! And B100 yet, excellent. Thanks for posting it Ed. Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] News about Pure Plant Oil for Transportation - Political support for Pure Plant Oil on European level. (fwd)
in optimised engines, better results are expected. h.. Production of biomass from short cycle forestry creates a relatively low environmental impact as there is no use of chemical fertiliser, pesticides etc. i.. Anyone who works in the field of alternative fuels will find that enormous markets are waiting. Like the German Feed-in law on electricity from Renewable Energies, the present act will create the basis for the technological development of biofuels and a leading role for Germany in a market for future technology. Technical development can be expected on three levels at once: in the cultivation of vegetable raw materials, in conversion into biofuels and in propulsion technology. j.. The demand on biofuels will create a market for innovative agro-technical products. This new market will create new opportunities for countries acceding to the EU, some of which have a strong agricultural sector. This will also lessen the pressure of competition on the German farmers from the farmers in the acceding countries. The above mentioned advantages on the new markets is naturally also valid for other countries which open up for the new opportunities in time. In contrast, if countries consciously obstruct the new technologies, they will be overtaken and sidetracked. Extracts of the new act and the explanatory memorandum concerning biofuels are available in German and English. Read also the press release from EUROSOLAR. Denmark still rejects biofuels. Denmark is still rejecting biofuels for transportation. The new government has inherited well known counterarguments such as a.. Replacement of fossil fuels with biofuels is an expensive method to reduce the CO2 emission. b.. Biomass should be reserved for co-generation because this is the cheapest way of utilising biomass in Denmark. c.. The proposal from the EU will probably not increase the employment. d.. The proposal can be considered as an attempt to indirectly support the agricultural sector. e.. Utilisation of biofuels for transportation will lead to higher costs for transportation. f.. Increased cultivation of biofuels on set-aside land will lead to negative impact on the environment. g.. The improvement of security of fuel supplies will be limited. These arguments appear in an answer from the Danish Minister of Tax to the Committee of Tax in the Danish Government. As it appears, the Danish Government disagrees with its European colleges. The argument that biomass should be reserved for co-generation is a very narrow consideration, and the point in this is first of all that coal based power production with low efficiency are replaced by power and heat production from co-generation with high efficiency. But biomass covers a wide range of solutions, and many different technologies are necessary for utilising the different biomass product for the purpose which is most practical and reasonable seen in an overall perspective. As an example, Pure Plant Oil can be used directly in its natural form to substitute fossil diesel fuel, and the straw can be used for co-generation. In contrast, it is very extensive to convert the straw to engine fuel. With regards to biofuels Denmark is hopelessly behind. It is a fact that a stagnation in the world production of petroleum is just ahead of us, and that the clean technologies like hydrogen are still waiting in the far future. Therefore action has to be taken now. Hopefully the positive and well proved signals from the international political arena will be recognised and understood by the Danish Government, who with the Chairmanship of the EU has the opportunity to promote biofuels as a solution for today. This newsletter is available online on http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/PPOnews_04072002.htm Yes, please send me news about vegetable oil as fuel No, please don«t send me more news about vegetable oil as fuel Folkecenter for Renewable Energy Kammersgaardsvej 16, DK-7760 Hurup Thy, Denmark Web : www.folkecenter.dk , email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel : +45 97 95 66 00 , fax +45 97 95 65 65 -- -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ztNCyD/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Trains on Biodiesel - as mobile gensets (fwd)
---Ursprngliche Nachricht--- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Trains on Biodiesel - as mobile gensets http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,53591,00.html Very cool! And B100 yet, excellent. Thanks for posting it Ed. Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel as a business
I am really interested to know your economic calculation. And also which oil you are using. Since some time I propose to use Jatropha oil a an energy resource in Zimbabwe, but I didn't hear of any action. Reinhard Henning bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Shane Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: GP, the organisation I work for in southern Africa has submitted proposals to our local industrial development corporation. We've got access to extremely good vegetable oil and ethanol resources. Probably be able to process for as little as USD0.08cents per litre on our original assumptions, after and excluding opportunity / interest charges on the capital costs. The indications so far suggest we might receive funding from one of the regional development banks. Have talked to suppliers of the plant and initial project pegged for production of 200 million litres fuel. Hope we get the go ahead. Regards Shane -Original Message- From: coachgeo3 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 02:26 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel as a business Has anyone ventured this direction yet? Anyone entertained the idea? Lets talk please if so. GP Jessup III [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ztNCyD/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Biodiesel.
Dear Richard McPherson, You know I was working 15 years in Africa on renewable energies. Now I am an independant consultant in Germany. In Zimbabwe you find already a lot of Jatropha plants, mostly in the region near Mozambique, which are used to fence gardens and fields against animals (live fences). The seeds of this plant contain an non edible oil, which is a good fuel (we suggest to adapt the engines to the SVO, not the oil to the engines) and serves also for income generation (the women produce a good soap with it). There are activities in Matoko and Binga area. Also the Zimbabwean government designed a Jatropha project and submitted it to UNESCO. It was put into the prioruity list to be realized within the next 5 years. But nothing happened afterwards. See more details at: http://www.Jatropha.org Regards Reinhard Henning [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I am really interested to know your economic calculation. And also which oil you are using. Since some time I propose to use Jatropha oil a an energy resource in Zimbabwe, but I didn't hear of any action. Reinhard Henning bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Reinhard: Are you in Germany and have interest in Zimbabwe? We supply biodiesel manufacturers Dipetane to reduce the NOX and increase the mileage. Richard McPherson Laguna Niguel, California. www.DipetaneUSA.com -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ê Ê 76 MERCEDES-BENZ 300D, attn for for tradesman, custom md PU, alum tool box, economical diesel, blue,
Mercedes doesn't have pick-ups. Reinhard steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: A pickup version? Sure, why not! Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel-JTF biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 10:42 AM Subject: [biofuel] 76 MERCEDES-BENZ 300D, attn for for tradesman, custom md PU, alum tool box, economical diesel, blue, Spotted this ad... Ó 76 MERCEDES-BENZ 300D, attn for for tradesman, custom md PU, alum tool box, economical diesel, blueÓ SomeoneÕs been doing custom work on a 300D...sounds bizarre...anyone interested? In BC. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Selection for oilseed with an ideal FA composition for biodiesel.
I have some Jatropha seeds. Butremember, Jatropha grows in tropical and subtropical countries. It doesn't stand frost. Reinhard gjkimlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Thanks Steve, quite a smogasbord of oils, I'll dig out the european study. It would have been one of the references that Kieth posted. The WVO we get would take some cleaning up to use without conversion so we haven't looked at that. I intend to get back to the Dalby guys, if they are into alcohol from sorgum they may be interested eventually in commercial bio from canola or sunflower. I'd be relying on your advice for the appropriate oilseed to grow on the Downs. Chemtech seem to use a similar formulation for biocide. Something lives in Tony's fuel tank, you wouldn't believe the amount of algae that grows overnight. He cleaned the tank after the last episode, either he didn't get it all or his diesel supplier has a problem. What costs/ton do you estimate for your home grown oil? The problem with selection for the most suitable cultivars, as I see it, is that you need ready access to a LG chromatograph or similar equipment to determine the FA composition. I'd like to have a go at that, I still have an unused tissue lab sitting here. Anyone got some Jatropha seed to send me? Please excuse the typing, I'm not wearing my glasses, and can't read what I'm writing.Regards from Harry. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steven Hobbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Harry, the FA analysis I posted was made with cold pressed sunflower oil. I have got my hands on a few hundred kilos of Canola which I will crush in a couple of weeks time (when cropping is out of the way) and process into BD, and hopefully will have up to a tonne of Mustard in August to try. I have planted some Canola (Pioneer 47CO2) which will be grown and stored on farm to be crushed for BD and I will also try running some as a SVO conversion in my trusty old ute. I purchased a Vege-therm from Edward (looks well made) and Iwill make up a SVO kit. Have you played around with SVO Harry? Your comments would be appreciated. Oh, by the way, the FA analysis you have of the European BD would be interesting to see...if you don't mindand no, I haven't tried my BD in the freezer yet. Your biocide sounds interesting...and I guess you don't buy it from a hardware shop!! gjkimlin wrote: Hi Steve, I compared the FA composition that you posted with some in the european literature. What strain are you growing? The European crop specifically grown for bio seems to be called OO or00 probably because it has zero 22C FAs. Have you cooled your bio to determine the cloud or pour point? I would be interested. The stuff we make from the WVO is variable, some cafes use cottonseed, some palm oil and some a mysterious blend that could even be re- refined WVO though I suspect that this is supposed to be exported to China. Either way we have to winterise, it being winter and all. A sorgum based ethanol plant is being constructed in Dalby, hopefully they will be an affordable source of fuel grade ethanol for mixing with the bio. The stuff that we use for a biocide is an ester between butyl and ethyl alcohols, 2-butoxy ethanol or butyl glycol ether. Its probably used as a winterizer in higher amounts. Its used as a grease cutter in truck wash and I suspect that its a solvent for cellulose. One hell of a solvent, wouldn't want it in the creek. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net
Re: [biofuels-biz] WVO and Renewables Obligation
Here is one possible answer: CONCLUSIONS Fueling with biodiesel/diesel fuel blends effectively reduced particulate matter, unburned hydrocarbons, and carbon monoxide while increasing oxides of nitrogen emissions. The optimum blend of biodiesel and diesel fuel, based on the trade-off of PM decrease and NOx increase, was a 20/80 biodiesel/diesel fuel blend. Increased NOx emissions can be reduced by retarding engine timing while subsequently maintaining emission reductions associated with fueling a diesel engine with a 20/80 biodiesel/diesel fuel blend. The retarded timing lengthened the ignition delay time. This reduced the peak pressure and temperature that enhance the formation of NOx emissions. FUELING DIESEL ENGINES WITH BLENDS OF METHYL ESTER SOYBEAN OIL AND DIESEL FUEL http://www.missouri.edu/~pavt0689/Fueling_Diesel_Engines_with_Blends_of_Methyl_Ester_Soybean_Oil.pdf Regards Reinhard Henning daponuk [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello, has anybody looked into using Waste Veg Oil in the context of the UK Renewables Obligation (in a 250-500Kw plant)? It isn't specifically mentioned in the Govt's priorities for the RO, but would obviously fit the bill for sustainability. Have there been any issues with emissions (given that waste incineration is fairly noxious and WVO may be lumped in the same environmentally-unfriendly bag)? I think Nitrous Oxide emissions are marginally higher than diesel, but that should be the only drawback... There should be none of the Heavy Metal and Dioxin problems. What about particles? Are there any specific planning regulations that need to be considered? Transportation should not be too much of an issue (the traffic movements would be minimal). I suppose noise and location would be paramount. I have received a document from the DTI for Developers in Anaerobic Digestion (with the various milestones etc). Does anyone know of a similar overview of the process required for WVO? Finally, I've heard that the EU may ban using WVO for animal food. This would potentially open up the market to partner in some manner with existing WVO recyclers for electricity generation (or take over the collection process if these companies fail). Does anybody have any details on the EUs plans? Any input re hurdles encountered from commercial implementations worldwide would be useful as well. Thanks, David Penfold BTW, I'm in the initial stages of research on this project so don't really have a lot to offer others wisdom-wise. If anybody else (preferably with an engineering background) is also looking at this in the UK, it may be worth getting together to pool resources. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Accusorb beads
I think you should consider the use of pure veg oil in your stationary diesel engine. That saves you a lot of work of esterification. It is very easy to adapt the engine. http://biofuels.ca Regards Reinhard Henning Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Keith, You noticed some very important things that I missed while viewing their page. I knew that it sounded to good to be true. I am new to the bio-diesel scene since I recently went off-grid and use a 12 hp Changfa diesel for all of our power needs. It is coupled to a 12kw Yanan head and has turned out to be a very powerful and efficient generator set. I'm gathering info on bio so I can reduce my power production costs even greater. Thank you very much for your eye opener...Andy - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Accusorb beads I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with accusorb beads that are used to treat WVO . The company claims it will produce biofuel of the same quality as transesterification..Andy Do you mean this? - Acusorb beads http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bioD.html Bio diesel filters green oil black oil Bio diesel filters green oil black oil They call it biodiesel, then they call it the UN-BioDiesel Process, and term the product Green Oil: Gets all of the water out of your waste oils and fuels! Removes ALL molecular types of water bounded molecules including fatty acids and glycerols, triglycerides and esters. Virtually any molecule that has a water bond. I don't know what this could mean, that it removes all fatty acids and glycerols, triglycerides and esters, if that's what it's saying - there'd be nothing left. It says it again, more or less: vegetable oil with the fatty acids and glycerin removed by hydrous ion-adsorption. I'm sure Todd's right, it just removes the water content, maybe deacidifies it too (free fatty acids), or maybe not. That's why they have to add petro-diesel to it (see below). But then they should say so, not dress it up like this to be what it's not. It's not honest to compare it with biodiesel, which they do. Used cooking oil - to -Green-oil one step process! Green-oil is micron filtered vegetable oil with the fatty acids and glycerin removed by hydrous ion-adsorption process. Our special ion-adsorption beads make the process easy and inexpensive! The hydrous ion-adsorption beads can be regenerated forever by burning them in an oven every few years. No alcohol is needed - just pump used vegetable oil in on one end and out comes usable Green-oil on the other end. Green oil is then mixed with 10% to 30% Diesel fuel and used in any Diesel type motor, jet turbine or oil burner. Somewhere else it says 10% to 50%. Wherever you look you see inconsistencies and contradictions. - Acusorb beads can be reused approximately 200 times... they can be reactivated by oven baking them at 350 degrees for a few hours... - ... can be regenerated forever by burning them in an oven every few years. Plenty more like that. Note they say not for vehicles: Not for vehicular use. Green and black oils are only to be used for fueling electric generators, jet turbines and oil burners used for heating. Some engine types can only be cold started using standard Diesel fuel and may then be transitioned to burn waste oil fuels once they are warmed up and running smoothly. Just SVO in other words. Really needs a two-tank system and pre-heating, but you might get away with it by mixing with dino and using it in a genset at constant load. Operating equipment running on Green and Black oils is not an exact science and is only recommended for those individuals that have some mechanical aptitude and enjoy discovery and experimentation. - ie, Don't blame us! I've been to this site before, four months ago. It said then at the bottom of the page: Hit 9821498-Times. Uh-huh. Now it says Hit 9823499-Times - that's 2,000 hits in four months, so at that constant rate it would take more than a thousand years to reach that total. The home page hasn't had quite that many hits - only Hit 3720550-Times, four months ago, and Hit 3729604-Times now - 9000 hits in four months, 4.5 times as many as the page that's had three times as many. Somehow my confidence isn't inspired by a company that cheats with their hit counters, and does it so unconvincingly. Nor by one that's as generally careless as this. They're just trying to sell filters. I wouldn't go anywhere near them. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuels for the emerging nations
technology compared with alcohol destillation). Do you know the Schur Diesel? Father son Schur proposed a mixture of 80 % of SVO and 20 % of ethanol (Schur says it is 18 % ethanol and 2% special, secret additive). It seems they had too many difficulties with diesel engines in the long run. They stopped it now, and only some enthusiasts are still trying it. At the 7. of July there is a meeting of SVO drivers/users in Germany. I will go there. Perhaps I know a bit more about the subject afterwards. We'd appreciate a report-back, if you have the time. I will try my best Best regards Reinhard Henning Best wishes Keith Best regards Reinhard Henning -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuels for the emerging nations
There are initiatives to produce plant oil and use it as fuel (Jatropha oil). But in a direct way (SVO = straight vegetable oil). I think it is much more easy to use the pure plant oil and adapt the engine to use it. Some stationary engines even don't have to be modified, like the Indian Lister type engines, which you find in East African countries. You find a list of Jatropha initiatives in the different countries in the Jatropha website http://www.jatropha.org cliocking on network asnd countries. Regards Reinhard Henning Nizar W. Ramji [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I need information if there are any projects pertaining to biofuels for East African Countries(Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda)? Nizar W. Ramji - Post your ad for free now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuels for the emerging nations
Hello Keith, We ran the lister type diesel engine directly with Jatropha oil, which was just sedimented. The only adjustment of the engine was a second fuel filter. A UN-project took this over and they were disseminating the Lister type diesel engines with plant oil. But right now they don't mention any more the aspect of runningf the engine with Jatropha fuel. see: http://www.ptfm.net We also had a study done by a German diesel engine producer. He concluded that the Jatropha oil can be used as fuel without problems. He also used the Jatropha oil as lubricant and said it is ok. Our idea was, to use the oil first as lubricant, and then burn it as fuel in the engine. - Here in Germany modern direct injection diesel engines are converted to run on SVO. There is also a modification kit available for precombustion chamber engines, which you can install by yourself. In a workshop in Denmark even an musician was able to do it, so it should not be too difficult: They change the injectotor to a pintle injector and change the incandescent plug (?) to one which glows much longer, if not almost permanently. Then the fuel pipe from the reservoir is replaced by a larger one, and a second fuel filter is added. This filter is heated with en electric heat band. Also a heat exchanger is installed, which gives the heat of the cooling water to the oil. The are also some switches and relais to regulate it. The whole systen costs about 800 Euro/US$, that depends on the car. http://www.elsbett.com At the 7. of July there is a meeting of SVO drivers/users in Germany. I will go there. Perhaps I know a bit more about the subject afterwards. Best regards Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello Reinhard, Nizar There are initiatives to produce plant oil and use it as fuel (Jatropha oil). But in a direct way (SVO = straight vegetable oil). I think it is much more easy to use the pure plant oil and adapt the engine to use it. Some stationary engines even don't have to be modified, like the Indian Lister type engines, which you find in East African countries. That depends on many factors, not just the motor but also the circumstances, and individual preferences. There's good information on the choices and options here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel: Guide to using vegetable oil as diesel fuel SVO systems References SVO vs biodiesel in Europe European SVO resources Diesel information Fats and oils Regarding Listers, I'm very interested in this. I mentioned to a biodiesel researcher that Listers would eat just about anything, and this was his reply: We found the Lister was not all that tolerant. It seems the biodiesel debate has been plagued with misconceptions which become the standard myth. At the time the belief was that the severe problems found with running diesels on veg oil were due to viscosity. We had heard that the South Africans had successfully run tractors on methyl esters so tried the following experiment. We blended distillate with rapeseed oil to a viscosity similar to methyl esters and compared that fuel with methyl esters in the Lister. We had a known load and could feed the fuel through a burette so could work out efficiency. We found the motor would run on esters for long periods with no change while with the blended fuel it lost power and efficiency within hours. The power could be fully restored by wiping the injector nozzle with a rag. So we concluded that viscosity was not the problem but rather it was the chemical nature of the triglyceride. I think he meant to say tractors on SVO, not methyl esters - that would refer to this study: http://www.biodiesel.org/cgi-local/search.cgi?action=view_reportid=GEN-292 See section concerning South Africa, indirect injection engines, 1800 hours, warranty issuance from manufacturer based on results - Fuls. J., Hawkins, C.S. and Hugo, F.J.C., 1984, Tractor Engine Performance on Sunflower Oil Fuel, Journal of Agricultural Engineering Research 30:29-35. With that proviso, what he says is rather born out by the findings of the ACREVO study in France: Report of the European Advanced Combustion Research for Energy from Vegetable Oils (ACREVO) study of the use of straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel. Investigates the burning characteristics of vegetable oil droplets from experiments conducted under high pressure and high temperature conditions. Very interesting study, worth a thorough read (4,400 words). http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm But I still have the idea that you can feed a Lister on just about anything! What do you think, Reinhard? Anyway, Nizar, what do you have in mind? Do you have any plans of your own? You're thinking of biodiesel/SVO for diesels, or of ethanol? Are you considering own-use or a larger project? Do you have any
Re: [biofuel] Greeting and question
Well, these are two very different questions. For the 2nd, Keith is better in answering it. Other than the palm oil fruit, the Jatropha seed is quite solid. In an expeller, like the sundhara expeller or the Taeby-press etc. about 70 % of the oil can be extracted in a very simple and decentralised way. see: http://www.jatropha.org/expellers/index.html The oilcake contains still about 10 % of oil. You can get it out by hexan extraction, but this is an industrial size technology. In our Jatropha project in Mali we were content, when we could extract 25 % of the 33 % of oil the seed contain. The oilcake was used as an organic fertilizer. project description, see: http://www.jatropha.org Jatropha oil is not yet demanded, because it is not edible. So it is only a raw material for soap making, for lighting and cooking, and as fuel. But for the latter in most cases diesel or kerosene is cheaper, very often by subventions by the governments. Only in remote regions people start being interested in The Jatropha System. http://www.jatropha.org/system.htm We propose the plantation of Jatropha and the use of its oil, because besides the energy aspect this system has different positive side effects, which are important for the development of rural regions: - income generation, mainly for women, - erosion control by planting Jatropha as hedges, - protection of food crops, because animals don`t feed on the Jatropha plant, which is planted as a protection hedge around gardens and fields, Jatroph does grow on semi-arid land. It needs at least 500 to 600 mm of rainfall. But it easily can stand a period of seven to 8 months without any rain at all. Just one remark to question 2: The transesterification process is in a way a gentle form of cracking, becaus it converts the big oil molecules from a molecular weight of 900 to the small ester molecules of a weight of about 300. Cracking is a high tech industrial method, with big pressure and heat, and not possible in the rural areas. I would like to know: where do you find Jatropha curcas in Indonesia, and in which quantities? And for which purposes is it used at the moment? Best regards Reinhard Henning bagong [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello, 1. I live in Indonesia, but frankly I never been seen how the process to extract the oil from palm fruit. The island which a lot of palm tree farm and palm oil factory is in another island, while I never been there. I heard they crushed the palm fruit and boiled with a lot of water and then separate the oil, so the they got a high rendement ( it's correct... ??) Then now about Jatropha curcas, so far I knew is just by pressing (extruder) method to get the oil, which it a lot of oil remaining in the waste oil cake. Have you been hear about how to take the Jatropha oil with better method for higher rendement, may be as palm oil extraction method as above or so ?. Palm oil is demanded, it has a good export value, while Jatropha not demanded, but it could growth well everywhere in tropical arid land just by rainfed. 2. From your website, I read, some big fuel company sold the fossil Diesel fuel mixed with a bit of Biodiesel, means at least it few thousand litres of Biodiesel a day needed. How they produce the Biodiesel in big amount, just by TransEsterification method or may be with hydrocracking method as people did to the heavy fossil fuel ?. Actually it possible or not to shorten the SVO molecular bond by cracking method ?. Thanks a lot for your attention in advance Many regards Effendi S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] genetic engineering
I am very much intersted in these papers, since I am working with Jatropha as an perrenial oil plant, which did not yet undergo agricultural selection for higher yields. You can see more about this plant in my jatropha website http://www.jatropha.org Regards Reinhard Henning David Preskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Paddy, I'd be interested too in the papers. Dave goat industries wrote: there are plans to produce crops of genetically modified oil bearing plants. The oil extracted could be used directly as a diesel fuel because it is composed of a high percentage of small chain length molecules. If anyone wants more info i could dig out the relevant papers. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recycling - not a chore more a way of life University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL572UW http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk Tel +44 (0)1248-370588 Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Did you think of a manual ram press? Carl Bielenberg in Vermont developed one (see address below). They are easy to build. And very cheap. Look into: http://www.jatropha.org/rampresses/biel-ram.htm Reinhard Henning Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Reinhard writes: You are right. But laboratory size expellers (Komet) are also very expensive, especially the repair parts. I'd prefer to think of the press I want as kitchen scale. There's no engineering reason I can see for a small oil press to cost any more than, say, an electric breadmaker, or the espresso machine on my counter. Clearly, it's a matter of supply and demand, but I bet the demand is higher than it was a few years ago. If I ran the zoo, I'd market it to health-food fans in the US and Europe, and I'd emphasize the nut butter aspect, while also providing accessories (or just a different setting) for seeds. I can imagine someone like Braun taking it on. In the meanwhile, I guess I have to build my own :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
Dear Christopher, You can get into contact with some of the many diesel engine adapters to SVO-use in Europe. I put some of the contact linkt into the Jatropha oil website http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/conversion-cars.htm There is even a meeting of SVO-users in Germany, the beginning of July see: http://www.bv-pflanzenoele.de/body_index.html Best regards Reinhard Henning Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I'm about to junk [* see note at bottom] a 1989 Nissan van (gasoline engine) with 43,000 miles on it, and in its place I'll be getting a 1989 Nissan van (DIESEL engine) with 27,000 miles on it. Both are automatic transmission vehicles; the former is 4WD and the latter 2WD. I would like to try running the diesel vehicle on carefully filtered waste vegetable oil and biodiesel, in a two-tank arrangement with either manual or temperature-controlled switching between the fuel systems. HERE IS MY QUESTION: Are there any parts worth scavenging from the outgoing gasoline vehicle, that will be useful in building the dual tank SVO system for the diesel vehicle? Thanks! Christopher Witmer Tokyo [* In Japan a car like this one -- more than ten years old -- has zero market value, despite its low mileage. I will have to pay money to junk it. Unlike the USA, there are few junkyards where people go to get parts, and there is not much of a used parts market. This car will probably be crushed into a metal, glass and rubber brick and stacked somewhere with a bunch of similar cars. The upside of this is that people like me who don't mind old cars can get them for free or for a pittance.] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
The Tinytech oil expeller is not a very small one. I suggest that you regard the Sundhara expeller, which can be build even in small workshops. see: http://jatropha.org/expellers/sundhara-1.htm Regards Reinhard Henning Brawner [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: hello Keith: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html Carlos - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information I am knew in thsi list. I would like to produce sunflower oil and I don't know what kind of equipment i should use. Could you help me? And, do you usually burn it with glicerin or take it out? What about motor problems after 200 hours for waste acumulation inside motor? regards, See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Biofuels supplies and suppliers: Oilseed presses regards Keith Addison Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Hi, You are right. But laboratory size expellers (Komet) are also very expensive, especially the repair parts. Regard the Sundhara press. It has a capacity of about 60 - 70 kg seed per hour (15 l of oil) and costs about 2.000 US $. It is produced in Nepal, Tanzania and Mali. visit the Sundhara website at: http://www.jatropha.org/expellers/sundhara-1.htm Regards Reinhard Henning Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Carlos writes: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html All I can see on that site is an expeller press that weighs 500 kg and processes 125 kg of seed per hour. My guess at the price is in the range of $15,000 USD. (I didn't see a price on the website). Maybe I'm not on the right page -- this is hardly tiny. How about one that weighs 20 kg, processes 5 kg of seed per hour, and costs $300 USD? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mistake
Good comment Regards Reinhard Henning kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: She should upgrade her computer to that new keyboard with the delete key. Must have struck a nerve somewhere in her psyche. Netetiquette Nanny. People that look a gift horse in the mouth. Contribute nothing and want data pre formatted and pre digested. And no personal comments in the process. Maybe she is an android? Kirk -Original Message- From: Lisa Musser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:41 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Mistake Thank you all for a waste of my time. I thought by joining this group I may receive valuable information on BioDiesel for a project I am working on. Instead I read 50 emails a day from losers being hateful to each other at 4 am. It is very disappointing. So farewell, enjoy your pathetic ways. I will instead seek other avenues for my knowledge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Genetic Engineering
Thank you, Keith, for your very ood arguments Regards Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello Chuck Strictly from the standpoint of efficiency, growing a plant that produced an acceptable yield of fuel for diesel engines without processing any further than extraction and filtering is nearly ideal. We do need people hanging around with a healthy dose of skepticism, but running away from the future because some aspects of that future appear to carry risks is worse than plunging blindly forward without heed of the consequences. That's NOT what we're doing. I am not against genetic engineering - I am against genetic engineering in the hands of the current players, who have a VERY bad record at such things, with virtually nothing to redeem it. Genetic engineering in itself is a most promising technology. My fear is not only that great damage will be caused by the current highly irresponsible initiatives but that the future of the technology might thus be ruined. My fears are being amply realised day by day, I'm very sorry to say. A large portion of the world sees it just the same way. These are not over-emotional fears based on scare-mongering, as some try to paint them, they're very often well-informed views, despite much corporate spin which attempts to confuse the issue, often successfully. Many of the nay-sayers are themselves scientists, many of whom have changed sides from pro to con. More and more scientists are doing that. Genetic engineering has been going on since that monk, whats-his-name, was messing around with peas in his garden, even before that. That is not true. His name was Mendel. Plant breeding is quite different to genetic engineering. The two have almost nothing in common. Read the definition Ed just posted. Neither Mendel, nor the hundreds of generations of careful farmer breeders before him and since who have given us our range of food crops - all very different from their wild originals - have not practised genetic engineering. We have been cross-breeding, hybridizing, and culling herds and crops for desirable traits since before recorded history. Its just that now we've advanced to the stage that we can do it with tremendous efficiency at the direct genetic level. You're quite wrong, on both counts. For the first, see above. For the second, there's very little efficiency involved. Check out your facts first. It's not an efficient process, it's highly random. Claims that the results are known and reliable have in all cases so far proven wrong. The effects - the GMO crops themselves - have not performed as claimed, and have behaved as it was promised they would not. Not efficient, bad science, bad technology. Monitor the progress, give those who are concerned a public forum, and let normal human progress take its course. This is not normal human progress, this is corporate irresponsibility. As a student of western civilization, I can tell you that, historically, cultures that turn their backs, or try to stop social, or scientific progress, marginalize themselves, ceding the forefront to other cultures that are willing to embrace the future. Stopping scientific progress is one thing, giving an unrestricted green light to unproven technology that is at best half-baked quite another. I am not flaming anyone here, I respect the cynic and the critic, we need you to balance the science-as-a-god crowd on the other end of the spectrum. But, please, accept the possibility that your opinions are just that; opinions. It is possible for someone equally well informed to disagree with you without being evil. These are not opinions. If you want solid references I'll give them to you. I wonder, though, if you can do the same. From my view of the subject, I doubt it. I'm sorry this got so, long, I just didn't want to see another tangential flame war fire up. I hope I haven't caused one. We can have a discussion, we can have an argument, we can even get heated about it, no problem, it only becomes a flame war when it goes beyond that into a personal slanging match, which I trust won't happen. Oh, we're talking to the local economic development people about building a BD plant right here, using WVO as feedstock. Good for you! Best wishes Keith Chuck R. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de
Re: [biofuels-biz] Genetic Engineering
Hallo Thor Skov, I think I know a plant that is nearly in the way you whish: It is Jatropha curcas, a shrub, with little demand of water and good soil, which grows in tropical and subtropical countries. It does not stand frost. This shrub (a botanical relative of the castor plant) produces seeds, that contain more than 30 % of a non edible oil. Theproduction rate is about 1.500 litres of oil per ha. This oil, after extraction and sedimentation, can be used directly as a substitute of diesel in precombustion chamber diesel engines (like Mercedes personel cars). More information on the Jatropha website: www.jatropha.org Best regards Reinhard Henning Thor Skov [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I agree that it would be marvelous to grow a plant that could produce a diesel-ready fuel that could be had without processing beyond extraction. But, there is no such thing as running away from the future, since at any given time there are an infinite number of possible futures. Historically, adaptation of technologies, especially in the choice of competing technologies, has been strongly influenced by the relative power of the beneficiaries of those technologies. And genetic engineering, as the term is currently used, has NOT been going since Mendel's time. Genetic engineering can mix the genes of organisms from different classes, phyla, even kingdoms, and breaks all the natural boundaries and checks and balances of cross-breeding closely related species. Furthermore, it is myth that genetic engineering is marvelously efficient. On the contrary, it takes thousands of attempts to get the desired expression of the desired traits without undesireable (and immediately apparent) characteristics (the not immediately apparent characteristics can stay long hidden). That is why it is so expensive. It's the same type of argument that people make when they say that mechanized, input-intensive monoculture farming is more efficient than biointensive multi-cropping on a small scale. This is NOT a flame. Simply an attempt to clear up a common misconception. Regards, Thor Skov --- Chuck Ranum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Strictly from the standpoint of efficiency, growing a plant that produced an acceptable yield of fuel for diesel engines without processing any further than extraction and filtering is nearly ideal. We do need people hanging around with a healthy dose of skepticism, but running away from the future because some aspects of that future appear to carry risks is worse than plunging blindly forward without heed of the consequences. Genetic engineering has been going on since that monk, whats-his-name, was messing around with peas in his garden, even before that. We have been cross-breeding, hybridizing, and culling herds and crops for desirable traits since before recorded history. Its just that now we've advanced to the stage that we can do it with tremendous efficiency at the direct genetic level. Monitor the progress, give those who are concerned a public forum, and let normal human progress take its course. As a student of western civilization, I can tell you that, historically, cultures that turn their backs, or try to stop social, or scientific progress, marginalize themselves, ceding the forefront to other cultures that are willing to embrace the future. I am not flaming anyone here, I respect the cynic and the critic, we need you to balance the science-as-a-god crowd on the other end of the spectrum. But, please, accept the possibility that your opinions are just that; opinions. It is possible for someone equally well informed to disagree with you without being evil. I'm sorry this got so, long, I just didn't want to see another tangential flame war fire up. I hope I haven't caused one. Oh, we're talking to the local economic development people about building a BD plant right here, using WVO as feedstock. Chuck R. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB
Re: [biofuels-biz] Genetic Engineering
The oil can be used in modern Diesels also. You have to do some modificaton. I put some addresses of persons and firms in the internet, who do such modifications in Germany. http://www.jatropha.org/p-o-engines/conversion-cars.htm Best regards Reinhard Henning Eric Ruttan [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hallo Thor Skov, I think I know a plant that is nearly in the way you whish: Snip This oil, after extraction and sedimentation, can be used directly as a substitute of diesel in precombustion chamber diesel engines (like Mercedes personel cars). HUGE SNIP Most Modern Diesels do not have a precombustion chamber. The TDI Diesels have a small well in the pistion, but its not anything like a precombustion chamber. Can this oil be used in modern Diesels? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Questions concerning the conversion of car engines to run with plant oil you will find under http://www.jatropha.org/p-o-engines/conversion-cars.htm To extract sunflower oil you can use manual presses or mechanical expellers. Examples of both you find at: http://www.jatropha.org/expellers/index.html and http://www.jatropha.org/extract.htm and http://www.jatropha.org/rampresses/biel-ram.htm Best regards Reinhard Henning marcohgcardoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I am knew in thsi list. I would like to produce sunflower oil and I don't know what kind of equipment i should use. Could you help me? And, do you usually burn it with glicerin or take it out? What about motor problems after 200 hours for waste acumulation inside motor? regards, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
