Re: [Biofuel] Titration Vs Bracket Method
Brian Is this still the same oil you were asking about three months ago? From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:35:43 -0400 To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. ... You said then that you'd find a new source of better oil, but early this month you asked the same question again: From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:03:28 -0400 To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Waste Oil Problems Hi all, I have a source of waste oil that will provide about 20 gal of oil per week. They are using soy oil and the virgin form of it produces very good fuel. They say that they change the oil once per week. The problem is that the used oil titrates at 12 to 15 mL. ... And now again, on 24 July, you ask just the same question: I have titrated some sample oil I have received and it titrates high like 12 - 14 ml. So I thought I would do the bracket method and see if that would give any different results so I would know if my titration is off. What gives? Are these different sources of oil or still the same source? And what stage are you at, exactly? Are you still a novice? It sure sounds like it since you're so unsure of your titration. There's no problem with titration. Can you make one-litre test batches with new oil that reliably pass the quality tests? Wash test http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#washtst Methanol test http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#methtest Can you make one-litre test batches with used oil that reliably pass the quality tests? You say you keep checking JtF but you can't find the answer, but I'm wondering how much notice you take of the answers you can find. For instance, it says NOTE: Novices should avoid poor-quality oil like this for their first test-batches with used oil. Find a source of oil that titrates at 2 to 2.5 ml of 0.1% NaOH solution, not more than 3 ml. Leave overcooked oils with high titration levels for later when you have more experience. Again, make small one-litre test batches before attempting larger batches of WVO. It says it again and again: avoid high-FFA oils, especially if you're a novice. So why, at this stage, after less than four months' experience, are you STILL trying to use oil that titrates at 12-14 ml? And why can't you do a more accurate titration than that? The higher the FFA level, the more accurate the measurements need to be, it says that too. It also says you'd be lucky to get more than 50% production out of oil like that, unless you deacidify it or, better, use the acid-base method, but it's obvious you're not ready for the two-stage processes. So what gives? Best Keith I have titrated some sample oil I have received and it titrates high like 12 - 14 ml. So I thought I would do the bracket method and see if that would give any different results so I would know if my titration is off. I did the bracket test just like the directions on the website said to do from 5 to 7.5 g/mL. All of the samples looked almost exactly the same except for the 7.5 which turned to a solid after the first shake. Does anyone have any clues as to what is going on? Because I thought when it turned solid that indicated too much lye. So I tried a sample batch with 6.5 g/mL. It turned out weird. There are three layers, a kinda semi-solid layer, a dark liquid layer, and a light/ clear layer at the top. But there are also little clumps of white looking junk floating around everywhere in all layers almost like a crystal forming. I could really use some help on figuring out what is going on and get your all expert opinions. Thanks Brian Schneider ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Hello Brian et al. The standard solutions for titration are for example KOH 0,1M and KOH 0,5M which are corresponding to 5,61g and 28,05g of KOH / dm3. But the concentration of the titration solution really doesn´t matter as long as the analysis is performed correctly and that the acid number is calculated from the analysis, and that the compensation need is calculated from the acid number. Please note that NaOH has a lower mass than KOH, so the weight will be lower for the corresponding concentration. You did not say how much your sample mass was when having that result. Do that, and we will work the values out properly. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration Jan, You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil with, or are you just meaning weak in general? If it is weak compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard strength? Did I miss read the information on journey to forever? Please let me know because right now I am not going to use the waste oil that I have because of the high titration rate and am going to have to find a new source. Thanks Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
You're using different measures Jan. No need to change it, it's all quite clear - this is the homebrew method, please see: Basic titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate Better titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate Using KOH http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#koh Best Keith Hello Brian et al. The standard solutions for titration are for example KOH 0,1M and KOH 0,5M which are corresponding to 5,61g and 28,05g of KOH / dm3. But the concentration of the titration solution really doesn´t matter as long as the analysis is performed correctly and that the acid number is calculated from the analysis, and that the compensation need is calculated from the acid number. Please note that NaOH has a lower mass than KOH, so the weight will be lower for the corresponding concentration. You did not say how much your sample mass was when having that result. Do that, and we will work the values out properly. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration Jan, You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil with, or are you just meaning weak in general? If it is weak compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard strength? Did I miss read the information on journey to forever? Please let me know because right now I am not going to use the waste oil that I have because of the high titration rate and am going to have to find a new source. Thanks Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Jan, You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil with, or are you just meaning weak in general? If it is weak compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard strength? Did I miss read the information on journey to forever? Please let me know because right now I am not going to use the waste oil that I have because of the high titration rate and am going to have to find a new source. Thanks Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/73a19e09/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
On May 6, 2008, at 8:45 AM, Brian Schneider wrote: Jan, You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil with, or are you just meaning weak in general? If it is weak compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard strength? 0.1% NaOH solution is what many people use for titration, including me. As Jan points out, you should be titrating just one ml of your oil in enough isopropyl alcohol to dissolve any free fatty acids (10 ml of isopropanol is fine, but not critical). If this is your procedure, your 12-15 titration result is valid. Quite high (worse than anything I've ever used), but lots of folks get oil like that regularly. The normal single-stage base-catalyzed process would make lots of soap, likely reducing your yield drastically. A combination acid-base process could work, but I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. You could try to get some cleaner oil titrating at, say, 1 or 2 ml, and mix in some of the rancid stuff to use it up gradually. Virgin oil, except palm and olive, would typically titrate somewhere between 0 and 1 ml. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
I have some oil from a small pizza shop; it's real dark and it titrates at about 11. I was going to just add some to each batch of 'better' oil to use it - thinning it out like that should be ok, right? PS - Thanks to all those that helped me along the way. It looks like all the 'problems' I was having was nothing more than a little glycerine at the bottom of the separation funnel, settling after draining the majority of it out. Just a little sticking to the walls I guess. The last two batches couldn't have come out better now that I know what to look for. Ken Provost wrote: On May 6, 2008, at 8:45 AM, Brian Schneider wrote: Jan, You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil with, or are you just meaning weak in general? If it is weak compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard strength? 0.1% NaOH solution is what many people use for titration, including me. As Jan points out, you should be titrating just one ml of your oil in enough isopropyl alcohol to dissolve any free fatty acids (10 ml of isopropanol is fine, but not critical). If this is your procedure, your 12-15 titration result is valid. Quite high (worse than anything I've ever used), but lots of folks get oil like that regularly. The normal single-stage base-catalyzed process would make lots of soap, likely reducing your yield drastically. A combination acid-base process could work, but I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. You could try to get some cleaner oil titrating at, say, 1 or 2 ml, and mix in some of the rancid stuff to use it up gradually. Virgin oil, except palm and olive, would typically titrate somewhere between 0 and 1 ml. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/981085f9/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration question from a Newbie
Good Day to all, I have a question about the purity of Isopropyl alcohol. Will 90% yield good results or does it have to be 99%?? Isopropanol for titration is available from chemicals suppliers. Some people have used the other kind of Dri-Gas, which is isopropanol, but they found that it's unreliable. Best get 99% pure isopropanol from a chemicals supplier. 70% pure isopropanol is also said to work, but we found it didn't give satisfactory results. -- Make your own biodiesel The process Chemicals needed Chemicals for WVO http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html See also: What should you do if your fuel doesn't pass the wash-test? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#whatdo Accurate measurements http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#measure When newbies have problems making their first test batches and it doesn't pass the quality tests it's most often because of inaccurate measurements, or they didn't follow the instructions closely enough. Avoid variables. Have your test batches with new oil passed the quality tests yet? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration question from a Newbie
I agree with Keith that it is best to 1. Use the best quality chemicals and measure accurately. (This will always be important, but absolutely crucial when doing small, initial test batches.) 2. Do not attempt to use WVO (and titration) until you have succeeded in making quality BD using virgin oil. (That said) For isopropanol, I now use a product called Iso Heet (Red Container; 12 fluid ounces/355ml)). It is 95% isopropanol. I get the same titration as with 99% iso purchased through a chemical supply company. The difference is the price. I pay about $2 (US) per 355ml vs. $8 + shipping for 250ml from the chemical supply source. + In the US many chemical suppliers will no longer ship to private residences. Warning: Not all gas line anti-freeze is created equal. I had a problem with something called Dri Gas. Although its label only listed isopropanol, the isopropanol itself titrated 6 or 7. Remember, start with small (1 L) test batches using virgin oil. Best Wishes for Your Success, Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration question from a Newbie Good Day to all, I have a question about the purity of Isopropyl alcohol. Will 90% yield good results or does it have to be 99%?? Isopropanol for titration is available from chemicals suppliers. Some people have used the other kind of Dri-Gas, which is isopropanol, but they found that it's unreliable. Best get 99% pure isopropanol from a chemicals supplier. 70% pure isopropanol is also said to work, but we found it didn't give satisfactory results. -- Make your own biodiesel The process Chemicals needed Chemicals for WVO http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html See also: What should you do if your fuel doesn't pass the wash-test? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#whatdo Accurate measurements http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#measure When newbies have problems making their first test batches and it doesn't pass the quality tests it's most often because of inaccurate measurements, or they didn't follow the instructions closely enough. Avoid variables. Have your test batches with new oil passed the quality tests yet? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration question from a Newbie
On May 2, 2007, at 5:59 PM, shawn patrick wrote: I have a question about the purity of Isopropyl alcohol. Will 90% yield good results or does it have to be 99%?? The other responses are technically correct -- however, the isopropanol is only being used as a solvent for the FFAs in the oil you're testing, so it's not very critical. I had some gas-dry isopropanol that started to get slightly acidic after several months in the bottle. I started titrating the isopropanol first (without the oil), then adding the oil and titrating again. Worked fine, and added 20 sec. to the process. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration (was Foolproof Method)
Mike, What moved me to look at the Foolproof Method was the fact that the WVO I collect from the same places that consistently titrated (when blended) at 1.8 to 2.2g NaOH /L had suddenly jumped to 3.2 - 3.5 this past summer. It hit 3.7 one week. Apparently due to increased summer business. Two weeks ago I titrated each of the 10 cubies of WVO I had collected. It took about 45 minutes. I collect from a Chinese Restaurant. They change their fryer twice a week, like clockwork. Their WVO titrated between 1.6 and 1.8 for 9 months. Their summer oil titrated at 2.8. The only place that didn't change is a restaurant that doesn't have a fryer. Their oil is consistent summer or winter (.8 - 1.0 !!!). My points are: 1. Titration only takes a few minutes. 2. WVO from the same source can vary significantly in FFA. If the titration increases just 0.5 g NaOH/L and I run my normal 80L batch, I will be short by 40 grams of lye, and suspect that I'd get an incomplete reaction. I hesitate to ask Images of The Wizard of Oz Are you suggesting that my apples are not what they should be? Do you do quality tests on your BD? Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Foolproof Method Nah, the oil's always the same - it never changes - there's very litle range. When I get it I usually let it settle, then do a quick 3 batches with 1 liter shakes in a mason jar ( I know- I release the pressure). The batches are probably pointless also. If I didn't have such steady oil I'd titrate more - I even have a Hanna PH meter. I'm not recommending it - it's just what I've wound up with. Just find I don't need to titrate for now... Joe Street wrote: Hey Mike; Ok I don't get this. I've seen this kind of comment a few times before and I don't see the logic in it. It takes me all of what 5 maybe 10 minutes to do a titration. Isn't it more fuss and work to do bracket test batches than just to run a titration? Joe Mike Weaver wrote: snip I'm just lazy and go with what is easy - I don't even titrate - just run a few bracket batches. So far so good... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Hello Jeff Dear all, Need help in this process. I have read about this procedure and followed it exactly as it said in the JTF. Uh-huh... Sorry, I get a sinking feeling when someone says that. I even bought a digital pH meter to make my life easier but this proved otherwise. Putting the pH meter into oil Why did you put the pH meter into oil? What oil? the reading does not stop moving, it take minutes to accertain whether the pH meter has stopped at a correct reading. Thereafter, when we titrate it, So you titrate it *after* you put the pH meter into oil? the pH meter goes wild again. Is there any better way to read the pH. I think all my titration results is as wild as the pH meter's reading and that will make my process wild as well. I am trying to get the pH reading at 7 +_ 0.5 Why? Where in the titration process do you have to get a pH reading of 7 +_ 0.5? From what I read, this should not give us too much of a problem. Right? Any other suggestion on this titration process? Well, you say things that wouldn't be included in following the titration procedure exactly as said at JtF. Some people say don't use a pH meter, throw it away... and then the same people say you can use phenol red instead, though it only goes to pH 8, not the required pH 8.5. At JtF we say use either a pH meter (preferably a good one) or phenolphthalein, though we prefer the pH meter and we say why, along with a further explanation from a list member. One reason these people say a pH meter is useless is that they claim you can't measure the pH of oil or biodiesel with a pH meter anyway because a pH meter can only measure an aqueous solution. Yes you can measure the pH of biodiesel with a pH meter, if it's a special one, and in some cases it doesn't even have to be a special one. This is also explained at JtF. There are also directions on how to use and maintain (and callibrate) a pH meter. Anyway the oil you're measuring in titration IS an aqueous solution, or an aqueous mixture anyway, since you're adding 0.1% NaOH (or KOH) solution to the oil-isopropanol mixture, and the other 99.9% of that solution is distilled water. Anyway, nowhere does it say that in titration you have to put the pH meter into oil, nor that you need a reading of pH 7. So I'm afraid I haven't a clue what you've been doing, so I can't say anything about your results. Maybe you should start again: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo Basic titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate Better titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate Accurate measurements http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#measure pH meters http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#pHmeters Phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#phenol pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#phvs Stock methoxide solution http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#stockmeth Poor man's titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#poor Is that what you've been following? Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Jeff ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Try Phenolphthelein solution. Jeffrey Tan wrote: Dear all, Need help in this process. I have read about this procedure and followed it exactly as it said in the JTF. I even bought a digital pH meter to make my life easier but this proved otherwise. Putting the pH meter into oil the reading does not stop moving, it take minutes to accertain whether the pH meter has stopped at a correct reading. Thereafter, when we titrate it, the pH meter goes wild again. Is there any better way to read the pH. I think all my titration results is as wild as the pH meter's reading and that will make my process wild as well. I am trying to get the pH reading at 7 +_ 0.5 From what I read, this should not give us too much of a problem. Right? Any other suggestion on this titration process? Jeff _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
or, calibrate your new pH meter.Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try Phenolphthelein solution.Jeffrey Tan wrote:Dear all, Need help in this process. I have read about this procedure and followed it exactly as it said in the JTF. I even bought a digital pH meter to make my life easier but this proved otherwise. Putting the pH meter into oil the reading does not stop moving, it take minutes to accertain whether the pH meter has stopped at a correct reading. Thereafter, when we titrate it, the pH meter goes "wild" again. Is there any better way to read the pH. I think all my titration results is as "wild" as the pH meter's reading and that will make my process "wild" as well. I am trying to get the pH reading at 7 +_ 0.5 From what I read, this should not give us too much of a problem. Right? Any other suggestion on this titration process?Jeff_Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Hi Todd ; Love your sense of humor! Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
RE: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Well the first one doesn't actually do much. :-) Best, Christopher -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Hey, since we are on the subject, I was wondering -- If you get a second belly button, Does it do anything? If so, do we get to choose what it does? Because, I keep loosing my garage door opener. Mike Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Todd, Born of the water or of the spirit is the question? So then do I have two natural belly buttons or only one natural belly button and one spiritual belly button? I think maybe the later. Best wishes Todd, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
on 12/27/04 3:47 PM, bmolloy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Romans 2:13 is also applicable. etc etc Please update the Subject line when you change the Subject. I consider GOD to be ineffable, i.e., unable to be talked about. Titration, OTOH, is quite effable, and a subject of some interest to me. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems
If you dont titrate right you can't get to heaven? See it is relevant. It's all in the doing, not in the religion. All religions can get you to god, if titrated correctly. Wait...wait.. you're gonna come back with a my way or no way line right? -Original Message- From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 6:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems on 12/27/04 3:47 PM, bmolloy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Romans 2:13 is also applicable. etc etc Please update the Subject line when you change the Subject. I consider GOD to be ineffable, i.e., unable to be talked about. Titration, OTOH, is quite effable, and a subject of some interest to me. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Hi Luc, Brian, Christopher ; Luke 12:47 - And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few - Jesus. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Hello Todd, Born of the water or of the spirit is the question? So then do I have two natural belly buttons or only one natural belly button and one spiritual belly button? I think maybe the later. Best wishes Todd, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Hey, since we are on the subject, I was wondering -- If you get a second belly button, Does it do anything? If so, do we get to choose what it does? Because, I keep loosing my garage door opener. Mike Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Todd, Born of the water or of the spirit is the question? So then do I have two natural belly buttons or only one natural belly button and one spiritual belly button? I think maybe the later. Best wishes Todd, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Here are weblinks to environmental stewardship and spiritual living in Christian terms; and then weblinks for other major world religions...there are many many similarities. http://egj.lib.uidaho.edu/egj12/johnson1/ http://www.surfinthespirit.com/environment/environmental-protection.shtml http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF6-95Wright.html http://www.christianecology.org/Stewardship.html Here are weblinks and other religions and environmental stewardship: http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/environment/spirituality/ http://bulletin.rec.org/bull113/clergy_urge.html http://www.mnchurches.org/media/pdfs/ecojustice/Bibliography.pdf http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/islam/index.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/judaism/projects/coejl.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/buddhism/projects/earth_sangha.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/confucianism/index.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/indigenous/index.html --- Legal Eagle :-) :-) Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher
Re: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Here are weblinks to environmental stewardship and spiritual living in Christian terms; and then weblinks for other major world religions...there are many many similarities. http://egj.lib.uidaho.edu/egj12/johnson1/ http://www.surfinthespirit.com/environment/environmental-protection.shtml http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF6-95Wright.html http://www.christianecology.org/Stewardship.html Here are weblinks and other religions and environmental stewardship: http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/environment/spirituality/ http://bulletin.rec.org/bull113/clergy_urge.html http://www.mnchurches.org/media/pdfs/ecojustice/Bibliography.pdf http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/islam/index.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/judaism/projects/coejl.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/buddhism/projects/earth_sangha.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/confucianism/index.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/indigenous/index.html --- Legal Eagle :-) :-) Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher
Re: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
LOL, another outstanding Toddism! I grew up in Houston, Texas. For those not familiar with American geography, Houston is a port city along the coast of Texas, and considered to be part of the deep south. We used to have routine visits (patrols) by the local church (division) of southern Baptists who would send small groups of dedicated parishioners (platoons) to my parents doorstep with smiling, but always different, faces, and always the same question. Have you been saved? My fathers answer, which used to make me laugh as a kid and now really makes me bust a gut, was short and sweet. He would just smile and say, Yes I have been, until now that is, from a$$s like ya'll! Somehow I think my father and you, Todd, would have gotten along just fine. AntiFossil Mike Minnesota USA * If you think you are too small to make a difference try sleeping with a mosquito. Dalai Lama * The difference between truth and fiction is that fiction must make sense or nobody will believe it. Mark Twain * - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing
Re: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
The Great Work is a perfect place to start. Dream of the Earth is a bit heady, but a great read on environmental ethics http://www.ecozoicstudies.org/thomas_berry.html - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Here are weblinks to environmental stewardship and spiritual living in Christian terms; and then weblinks for other major world religions...there are many many similarities. http://egj.lib.uidaho.edu/egj12/johnson1/ http://www.surfinthespirit.com/environment/environmental-protection.shtml http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF6-95Wright.html http://www.christianecology.org/Stewardship.html Here are weblinks and other religions and environmental stewardship: http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/environment/spirituality/ http://bulletin.rec.org/bull113/clergy_urge.html http://www.mnchurches.org/media/pdfs/ecojustice/Bibliography.pdf http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/islam/index.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/judaism/projects/coejl.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/buddhism/projects/earth_sangha.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/confucianism/index.html http://environment.harvard.edu/religion/religion/indigenous/index.html --- Legal Eagle :-) :-) Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Sermon on the mount...Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Okay, Now that we've had the sermon on the mount, circa 2004, the question still remains. If you're born again, do you have two belly buttons? Todd Swearingen Born okay the first time. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Ah yes, But the bible also states that your righteousness is as filthy rags. This passage is in the new testament and I'll have to look up the exact reference later. Righteousness and Religion don't count for anything. But before I further this thought you must first be a believer in God (by whatever name you call him). If you don't believe then what's the point. But if you do believe then you must certainly recall some scriptures. I read some post that stated that God did not intend for religion to be organized. But he most certainly did. In the old testament there is scripture reference stating forsake not the gathering together of yourselves as the manner of some is... meaning that people of faith should assemble together. And why should we gather together? As is stated in the new testament Faith is built from faith to faith.. which is to say that we increase in both knowledge and understanding by gathering together, much as we do here in the befoul list. We share our knowledge, gain understanding, and encourage one another. The apostle Paul also stated that things should be done in order regarding the gathering together. Much of those gathering together events were not however held in Temples but rather in homes of individuals and other places. The Church is not a building but rather it refers to the Faithful followers. The Temples are no less sacred but still only a place to gather together. No one can argue that much of the so called Christian community today is filled with hypocrites, socialites, etc...many people seeking to put forward a good face to mask their evil deeds. The scripture also states ..that where good is, evil is also present... I agree that most of what exist of religious organizations today is either a cult or cult like but not all. I will always be reluctant to stereotype anyone because I believe that there is always some good to be found within the bad (speaking of people). Our challenge today is to find someone in which we can gather together with who is indeed seeking after God and his will in our lives that we can increase our faith through association with their faith. And what if you don't believe as I believe? It doesn't matter to me. I can't save you anyway. Save you (the non-believer) from what? It doesn't matter...you don't believe. I will still pray to my God that he bless you and your house and that we may all live in peace and that we can learn to live as equals on this planet. And I can share my efforts with my neighbors (of various faiths) to bring equity to the world starting with my neighbors. None of my neighbors share the same faith but we do share this planet and I hope that we can learn together how to reap, replenish and restore what this earth has for us. May God bless you all, Best wishes, Tim Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
going to church doesn't make a person a Christian, accepting the lord as your savior and living the way he taught us to does. Going to church merely is one way to worship him with others who are thankful for his gift of everlasting life. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? I run warm water in a saucepan and have the titration jar set in that. Never checked the actual temperature though. 75F seems more than enough. titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. That little do-hickey is sensitive and should not be jostled around too much, have a meal at the local Chinese restaurant and see if you can't take a chopstick home :-). That way the probe can stay stable while you mix up the oil/iso. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I titrate the WVO I get at 1.5 and then add that to the base 3.5 for a total of 5gr/liter or 400gr per batch as I do 80 liter batches.It's simpler that way for my carboy set-up. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I calibrate each time I use it. At two points, 7 and 10. Actually the calibration is the longest part of the operation for me. I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. Why ? It sounds like good stuff to me. The WVO I get from our local Chinese restaurant is actually vegetable shortening so yours may be that also. Ask. Luc Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Many who are insincere fill our ranks That's one reason why I left the church long ago. People went to service on Sundays, and back to pumping dioxin laden waste waters into a river or running insurance scams Monday thru Friday, with a token bible study thrown in somewhere between to salve their consciences. No thanks. If the body is a temple and the Earth a cathedral, I don't see where I need any stained glass (leaded no less), candles, incense or fire and brimstone to lead me to any conclusions as to what's real and what's pure horse muffins. Humans. God love 'em. 'Cause that's about all who can. Todd Swearingen Religion - What keeps the poor from killing the rich. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Appal Energy wrote: So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? :-) My paternal grandfather would get annoyed that as a child, I insisted that I was an American, rather than Brasillian. He told this story to illustrate his point: (This must be spoken in a deep, melodious, Portuguese-accented voice for full effect.) There is a gato, you say cat, who likes to go to the oven where it is always warm. One day, this gato has gatinios inside the oven. Now my son, are they cat, or bread? Of course church attendance does not a Christian make, nor does simple acceptance of the label. I think, Todd, that you are intelligent enough to tell the difference between genuine Christians and those among us who tag along for other reasons. Many who are insincere fill our ranks, and while genuine Christians attend church for worship, service and fellowship, the above story applies both to those who are sincere and those who are not. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Religions are just cults with lots more members. And then there are those who are just too lazy and weak kneed to do what's right in the first place and need the threat of someone watching over them to keep themselves in line. How many other dogmas teach the same social graces as yours? But all those good people get to go to hell because they didn't vote for the right string bean (supreme being)? Carrol Merril, is the real God behind door #1, door #2 or door #3? (Spoofing Let's Make a Deal, for those who didn't receive American TV 20 years ago.) You can have and keep your organized religion. I'll keep with the Spirit of things, including a vast number of things the Vatican considers pagan, or nearly so. My bet is that doing things right because they're the right things to do in the here and now carries a great deal more weight (if there are any accounting books) than doing things based upon promise of some hereafter benefit or threat of eternal disbenefit. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems going to church doesn't make a person a Christian, accepting the lord as your savior and living the way he taught us to does. Going to church merely is one way to worship him with others who are thankful for his gift of everlasting life. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? I run warm water in a saucepan and have the titration jar set in that. Never checked the actual temperature though. 75F seems more than enough. titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. That little do-hickey is sensitive and should not be jostled around too much, have a meal at the local Chinese restaurant and see if you can't take a chopstick home :-). That way the probe can stay stable while you mix up the oil/iso. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I titrate the WVO I get at 1.5 and then add that to the base 3.5 for a total of 5gr/liter or 400gr per batch as I do 80 liter batches.It's simpler that way for my carboy set-up. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I calibrate each time I use it. At two points, 7 and 10. Actually the calibration is the longest part of the operation for me. I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. Why ? It sounds like good stuff to me. The WVO I get from our local Chinese restaurant is actually vegetable shortening so yours may be that also. Ask. Luc Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
As you will nodoubt have no trouble agreeing, there are many more sincere Christians outside the confines of so-called structured religion than within it. This is not to say that there are not sincere believers within the structure, it is that there are many more outside of it percentia. Now whether those will openly admit to their inner belief or not is another matter, not wanting to or able to sustain association with the outlandishly hypocritical element with the confined structure. Ceremonialisms are fine for what they are, mere physical props that are supposed to depict spiritual truths, but the problem is that the institutionalised religions have gotten so involved with the depictions that they have lost the purpose for their existance. All of creation is one such depiction, but many people have gotten so caught up with the creature that they have lost contact with the Creator. Church buildings and their inherent structural heirarchy do not necessarily legitimately demonstrate the truths that are expected to be representative of the purpose for creation, and often they work in exactly the opposite direction. Does one need a church building to worship God? Absolutely NOT. For many it sometimes fascilitates it but is by no means absolute.To claim otherwise is to put God in a restrictive man-made box and that is not possible. The Bible tells us that God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in truth and in Spirit. this can be done anywhere and in any venue and is not limited to any structure or man-made systems. It is only limited in thedepths of one's own heart. Have a nice day. Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Hello Robert, Many who are insincere fill our ranks That's one reason why I left the church long ago. People went to service on Sundays, and back to pumping dioxin laden waste waters into a river or running insurance scams Monday thru Friday, with a token bible study thrown in somewhere between to salve their consciences. No thanks. If the body is a temple and the Earth a cathedral, I don't see where I need any stained glass (leaded no less), candles, incense or fire and brimstone to lead me to any conclusions as to what's real and what's pure horse muffins. Humans. God love 'em. 'Cause that's about all who can. Todd Swearingen Religion - What keeps the poor from killing the rich. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Appal Energy wrote: So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? :-) My paternal grandfather would get annoyed that as a child, I insisted that I was an American, rather than Brasillian. He told this story to illustrate his point: (This must be spoken in a deep, melodious, Portuguese-accented voice for full effect.) There is a gato, you say cat, who likes to go to the oven where it is always warm. One day, this gato has gatinios inside the oven. Now my son, are they cat, or bread? Of course church attendance does not a Christian make, nor does simple acceptance of the label. I think, Todd, that you are intelligent enough to tell the difference between genuine Christians and those among us who tag along for other reasons. Many who are insincere fill our ranks, and while genuine Christians attend church for worship, service and fellowship, the above story applies both to those who are sincere and those who are not. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Hello Robert, Many who are insincere fill our ranks Not quite fill Robert. That's one reason why I left the church long ago. People went to service on Sundays, and back to pumping dioxin laden waste waters into a river or running insurance scams Monday thru Friday, with a token bible study thrown in somewhere between to salve their consciences. Preach this thing religion But we show no faith at all Follow suit on Sunday And on Monday forget it all If the times should find us needing it Then, my friend, Lord have mercy on us all It's the same old wine In a brand new bottle No thanks. If the body is a temple and the Earth a cathedral, ... as indeed they are... I don't see where I need any stained glass (leaded no less), candles, incense Ah, but Todd, have you ever been in a Gothic cathedral? You don't like rose windows and Gregorian chants? Why choose? You can have it all. What other people elect to do in a great cathedral and why is their business, and what I do there is mine, but whatever it may be, there the edifice remains in all its wonder, unblemished by any passing through who might be gross or profane, an ennobling thing to spend some time in, on Sundays or not, no matter who thinks they own them. Spiritual amplifiers. It needn't be a great cathedral either, you can find the same in a humble country churchyard. Or a forest glade or a mountaintop. or fire and brimstone Good for pre-heating WVO? And probably not much else, other than to frighten the subscribers. to lead me to any conclusions as to what's real and what's pure horse muffins. Humans. God love 'em. 'Cause that's about all who can. Naah, they're a goodly bunch, by and large, they're not like apples, a couple of rotten ones don't spoil the whole crop. Much more impressive is how wonderful and beautiful they can be and (I think) mostly are, most of the time. It's quite easy to love them. No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee. Best wishes Keith Todd Swearingen Religion - What keeps the poor from killing the rich. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Appal Energy wrote: So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? :-) My paternal grandfather would get annoyed that as a child, I insisted that I was an American, rather than Brasillian. He told this story to illustrate his point: (This must be spoken in a deep, melodious, Portuguese-accented voice for full effect.) There is a gato, you say cat, who likes to go to the oven where it is always warm. One day, this gato has gatinios inside the oven. Now my son, are they cat, or bread? Of course church attendance does not a Christian make, nor does simple acceptance of the label. I think, Todd, that you are intelligent enough to tell the difference between genuine Christians and those among us who tag along for other reasons. Many who are insincere fill our ranks, and while genuine Christians attend church for worship, service and fellowship, the above story applies both to those who are sincere and those who are not. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
You can have and keep your organized religion. I'll keep with the Spirit of things, including a vast number of things the Vatican considers pagan, or nearly so. My bet is that doing things right because they're the right things to do in the here and now carries a great deal more weight (if there are any accounting books) than doing things based upon promise of some hereafter benefit or threat of eternal disbenefit. Hear hear! Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems going to church doesn't make a person a Christian, accepting the lord as your savior and living the way he taught us to does. Going to church merely is one way to worship him with others who are thankful for his gift of everlasting life. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Luc - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Todd: Religions are just cults with lots more members. Christopher: I agree with you absolutely. I believe God never meant for religion to be organized. It says somewhere in the book of Matthew that if two or three persons converge in His name, He is with them. It is when religion gets organized that corruptions and evil tend to creep in. If I remember correctly, there is a pope who himself went to war and killed just to protect the properties and interest of their so called church. And to think they preach that we should not get attached to worldly and material things. Todd: And then there are those who are just too lazy and weak kneed to do what's right in the first place and need the threat of someone watching over them to keep themselves in line. Christopher: Yeah, people get stuck with the idea taht we should fear God so we should do good instead of we love God that is why we do good. And to most people religion is the easy way out. Just believe and all the horrors you've done will be forgotten. Todd: How many other dogmas teach the same social graces as yours? But all those good people get to go to hell because they didn't vote for the right string bean (supreme being)? Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Todd: You can have and keep your organized religion. I'll keep with the Spirit of things, including a vast number of things the Vatican considers pagan, or nearly so. My bet is that doing things right because they're the right things to do in the here and now carries a great deal more weight (if there are any accounting books) than doing things based upon promise of some hereafter benefit or threat of eternal disbenefit. Christopher: I belive this is why we were put on this earth. To do what is right here and now and all that we can to make a difference in the short period of our life. To rise up above ourselve inspite of what is convenient and in spite of our imperfections. And if indeed there is a better hereafter, that is just a plus and NOT the real point. Best Wishes, Christopher - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems going to church doesn't make a person a Christian, accepting the lord as your savior and living the way he taught us to does. Going to church merely is one way to worship him with others who are thankful for his gift of everlasting life. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? I run warm water in a saucepan and have the titration jar set in that. Never checked the actual temperature though. 75F seems more than enough. titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. That little do-hickey is sensitive and should not be jostled around too much, have a meal at the local Chinese restaurant and see if you can't take a chopstick home :-). That way the probe can stay stable while you mix up the oil/iso. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I titrate the WVO I get at 1.5 and then add that to the base 3.5 for a total of 5gr/liter or 400gr per batch as I do 80 liter batches.It's simpler that way for my carboy set-up. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I calibrate each time I use it. At two points, 7 and 10. Actually the calibration is the longest part of the operation for me. I think there was just something funny about the grease I
RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Luc, I couldn't have put it any better. Best wishes, Christopher -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Legal Eagle Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems G'day Todd; As you will nodoubt have no trouble agreeing, there are many more sincere Christians outside the confines of so-called structured religion than within it. This is not to say that there are not sincere believers within the structure, it is that there are many more outside of it percentia. Now whether those will openly admit to their inner belief or not is another matter, not wanting to or able to sustain association with the outlandishly hypocritical element with the confined structure. Ceremonialisms are fine for what they are, mere physical props that are supposed to depict spiritual truths, but the problem is that the institutionalised religions have gotten so involved with the depictions that they have lost the purpose for their existance. All of creation is one such depiction, but many people have gotten so caught up with the creature that they have lost contact with the Creator. Church buildings and their inherent structural heirarchy do not necessarily legitimately demonstrate the truths that are expected to be representative of the purpose for creation, and often they work in exactly the opposite direction. Does one need a church building to worship God? Absolutely NOT. For many it sometimes fascilitates it but is by no means absolute.To claim otherwise is to put God in a restrictive man-made box and that is not possible. The Bible tells us that God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in truth and in Spirit. this can be done anywhere and in any venue and is not limited to any structure or man-made systems. It is only limited in thedepths of one's own heart. Have a nice day. Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Hello Robert, Many who are insincere fill our ranks That's one reason why I left the church long ago. People went to service on Sundays, and back to pumping dioxin laden waste waters into a river or running insurance scams Monday thru Friday, with a token bible study thrown in somewhere between to salve their consciences. No thanks. If the body is a temple and the Earth a cathedral, I don't see where I need any stained glass (leaded no less), candles, incense or fire and brimstone to lead me to any conclusions as to what's real and what's pure horse muffins. Humans. God love 'em. 'Cause that's about all who can. Todd Swearingen Religion - What keeps the poor from killing the rich. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Appal Energy wrote: So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? :-) My paternal grandfather would get annoyed that as a child, I insisted that I was an American, rather than Brasillian. He told this story to illustrate his point: (This must be spoken in a deep, melodious, Portuguese-accented voice for full effect.) There is a gato, you say cat, who likes to go to the oven where it is always warm. One day, this gato has gatinios inside the oven. Now my son, are they cat, or bread? Of course church attendance does not a Christian make, nor does simple acceptance of the label. I think, Todd, that you are intelligent enough to tell the difference between genuine Christians and those among us who tag along for other reasons. Many who are insincere fill our ranks, and while genuine Christians attend church for worship, service and fellowship, the above story applies both to those who are sincere and those who are not. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Romans 2:13 is also applicable. It reads: For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. In other words it isn't those who pay lip service to the law (i.e basic human morality) but those who practise it who are seen as just in the eyes of God. That means that even if you have no belief in God in terms of Christian ideology, whether from ignorance or choice, it is your actions and not your beliefs that justify you. Bob. --- Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:27 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems Romans 2:14-15 Luc - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems Christopher: God is not as illogical as religion would put Him. According to the Bible, even persons who never knew of God but do the right(good)thing ARE righteous regardless. Christopher, I know of some suggestion of this in the Bible, but am unsure of where it is explicitly stated. Do you have a reference? Thanks. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? I run warm water in a saucepan and have the titration jar set in that. Never checked the actual temperature though. 75F seems more than enough. titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. That little do-hickey is sensitive and should not be jostled around too much, have a meal at the local Chinese restaurant and see if you can't take a chopstick home :-). That way the probe can stay stable while you mix up the oil/iso. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I titrate the WVO I get at 1.5 and then add that to the base 3.5 for a total of 5gr/liter or 400gr per batch as I do 80 liter batches.It's simpler that way for my carboy set-up. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I calibrate each time I use it. At two points, 7 and 10. Actually the calibration is the longest part of the operation for me. I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. Why ? It sounds like good stuff to me. The WVO I get from our local Chinese restaurant is actually vegetable shortening so yours may be that also. Ask. Luc Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Titration problems
ONLY if they belive the mechanic will Savior them and by washing the the sins of the car in blood of the engine, the car will take them to heavan. Most folk are as brainwashed as THEY WANT TO BE!! Merry christmas mel -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 8:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? I run warm water in a saucepan and have the titration jar set in that. Never checked the actual temperature though. 75F seems more than enough. titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. That little do-hickey is sensitive and should not be jostled around too much, have a meal at the local Chinese restaurant and see if you can't take a chopstick home :-). That way the probe can stay stable while you mix up the oil/iso. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I titrate the WVO I get at 1.5 and then add that to the base 3.5 for a total of 5gr/liter or 400gr per batch as I do 80 liter batches.It's simpler that way for my carboy set-up. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I calibrate each time I use it. At two points, 7 and 10. Actually the calibration is the longest part of the operation for me. I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. Why ? It sounds like good stuff to me. The WVO I get from our local Chinese restaurant is actually vegetable shortening so yours may be that also. Ask. Luc Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? I think the more appropriate analogy would be someone going to a garage and becoming a mechanic. Not gauranteed to happen, but if you spend enough time in a garage, it's much more likely you'll pick up a wrench... Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
So., If going to church makes a person a Christian, does going to a garage make a person a car? :-) My paternal grandfather would get annoyed that as a child, I insisted that I was an American, rather than Brasillian. He told this story to illustrate his point: (This must be spoken in a deep, melodious, Portuguese-accented voice for full effect.) There is a gato, you say cat, who likes to go to the oven where it is always warm. One day, this gato has gatinios inside the oven. Now my son, are they cat, or bread? Of course church attendance does not a Christian make, nor does simple acceptance of the label. I think, Todd, that you are intelligent enough to tell the difference between genuine Christians and those among us who tag along for other reasons. Many who are insincere fill our ranks, and while genuine Christians attend church for worship, service and fellowship, the above story applies both to those who are sincere and those who are not. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? I run warm water in a saucepan and have the titration jar set in that. Never checked the actual temperature though. 75F seems more than enough. titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. That little do-hickey is sensitive and should not be jostled around too much, have a meal at the local Chinese restaurant and see if you can't take a chopstick home :-). That way the probe can stay stable while you mix up the oil/iso. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I titrate the WVO I get at 1.5 and then add that to the base 3.5 for a total of 5gr/liter or 400gr per batch as I do 80 liter batches.It's simpler that way for my carboy set-up. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I calibrate each time I use it. At two points, 7 and 10. Actually the calibration is the longest part of the operation for me. I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. Why ? It sounds like good stuff to me. The WVO I get from our local Chinese restaurant is actually vegetable shortening so yours may be that also. Ask. Luc Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Glad to be of help, however what advice I can offer is primarily due to what I have learned right here and through the pages of Journey To Forever, and sometimes I get even that a bit off, go figure. It is a continual learning curve, or so it would seem, and that is what makes it ever interesting. I have just gotten back from an outing, one that is a true rarity in our house, of a Christmas mass where family members were involved in the choir ect. It was an enjoyable experience, even if doctrinally we have differences. What is important is to be reminded that part of our purpose here in this life is to do our best to live peacebly with all men, to bring what little bit of joy we can and to shine where sometimes only darkness exists. This isn't to deny the existance of darkness, but it is in spite of it. A very happy Christmas season, joy and good health in the New Year. Luc - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey legal eagle, thanks for all the info you have been giving me, taking the time to respond, Its greatly appreciated. I hope we will be talking again, but for now its off to church to celebrate the birth of my savior. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Dan ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
- Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? I run warm water in a saucepan and have the titration jar set in that. Never checked the actual temperature though. 75F seems more than enough. titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. That little do-hickey is sensitive and should not be jostled around too much, have a meal at the local Chinese restaurant and see if you can't take a chopstick home :-). That way the probe can stay stable while you mix up the oil/iso. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I titrate the WVO I get at 1.5 and then add that to the base 3.5 for a total of 5gr/liter or 400gr per batch as I do 80 liter batches.It's simpler that way for my carboy set-up. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I calibrate each time I use it. At two points, 7 and 10. Actually the calibration is the longest part of the operation for me. I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. Why ? It sounds like good stuff to me. The WVO I get from our local Chinese restaurant is actually vegetable shortening so yours may be that also. Ask. Luc Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems G'day Daniel; Are you using a warm water bath while doing the titration? A chopstick is also handy to continuously stir so that there will be no sepeartion. Secondly, are you using phenolthaline, strips or an electronic PH meter ? If the later, are you using it on battery or wall plug? I have had more success with the battery for some reason. The wall plug gave inconsistent readings such as the ones you are describing, however keeping the mix well blended and the bulb submerged ended up working out , it just took a while longer It will settle on a reading eventually, but may take a few moments. The WVO I use titrates consistantly at 5gr/liter, but I need another supplier for next season so I will be at it again soon. If you use an electronic PH meter are you calibrating it each time before use ? They tend to go out easily. Sorry to harp on elect. meters, that is the way I did/am doing it. I tried strips but got nowhere. I also tried the phenolthaline but got nowhere with it either, so I am sticking with the battery gizmo. It's not a cheapy so should last for a while :-). Luc - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:17 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration problems Hey, New guy to the bio diesel program here. I am having a problem with titration. I went to a local restaurant and picked up some wvo. I went thru the process and it showed a titration of 8.3. I started completely over and the results were exactly the same. Cool. Rather high though, so I went in search of a new supplier. I brought home two samples from different sources The first sample almost caught on fire on the stove, it looked like used motor oil, very black. The kitchen filled up with smoke and it was kinda hard to breath. Wife wasn't happy. Anyway, onward to better things. The second sample boiled out well. After cooling down, I began the process. With the oil/isopropyl mixture in the tube I checked its ph before adding any lye solution. It read 6.35. I then added 1 ml. lye solution, the ph read 7.36 Cool. Then added .5 ml. and the ph went to 7.46, another .5 ml., ph went to 7.51. Another 1 ml., ph read 7.53, another 1 ml., that's 4 milliliters now, ph read 7.53 again. After that, every time I added 1 ml. I lost 1 hundredth on the ph. At 9 milliliters I was at 7.49. Any body have any thoughts on why I couldn't raise the ph above 7.53, and started loosing after that ? Am I doing something wrong or is this wvo just unusable? I repeated the whole process and the results were the same, couldn't get above 7.53 ph. I reheated the oil to see if there was still some water in it, there was not. Am I doing something wrong or is this oil just unusable? Thanks, Dan ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
hey Legal Eagle, how warm should the bath be? titration takes about 2 minutes and the mixtures is 75 degrees F. when I start and stays there thru the duration. Stand the beakers or whatever (both the mixture and solution) in some hot water before doing the titration, get it up to 95-100 deg F or so. No need to be to exact about it. Some say it should be titrated at the same temperature as the process itself (130F) but your isopropyl will be evaporating quite fast at that temperature. With good oils with low titration it won't make too much difference, but the higher the FFA levels get the less forgiving everything else gets too. I use the end of the probe to keep it stirred up. I do use a battery operated ph meter. I went and got some grease today from a different restaurant and it titrated to 1.2. I did it twice and the results were the same. The grease looked like it was almost new. Is 1.2 possible or is that just to low. That's not too low at all, you've found some nice oil, stick with it and be nice to the restaurant that gave it to you. Bit of an eye-opener eh? Which of these restaurants will you and won't you be eating at in future? LOL! I just bought the ph meter and calibrated it 2 days ago. How often do you calibrate yours. Information on using and maintaining pH meters: Useful information on Maintenance, Troubleshooting and FAQ in Technical section at website: http://electrodesdirect.com/index.php?section_id=3ElectrodesDirect=3a e363771935ce8cd86f28e2d20565da Tech Tips http://www.eutechinst.com/tech-tips.htm I think there was just something funny about the grease I was trying to do yesterday. I think what was funny about it was that it's high-titration oil with a lot of Free Fatty Acid in it, and you're almost certainly much better off not using it. When titrating oil like that the pH can hit a plateau and just stay there, or even go into reverse. I think if you'd kept going you probably would have reached the 8.5 level, but it looks like it would have taken lots of ml's. Reason seems to be that the FFA (acids, after all) react with the base NaOH and the water in the titration solution and make soap. If you're just starting out making biodiesel, don't make things difficult for yourself with oil like that. By the way, how are you adding the NaOH solution? 1ml and 0.5ml at a time is a bit much. Why not use a syringe? Best wishes Keith - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems G'day Daniel; Are you using a warm water bath while doing the titration? A chopstick is also handy to continuously stir so that there will be no sepeartion. Secondly, are you using phenolthaline, strips or an electronic PH meter ? If the later, are you using it on battery or wall plug? I have had more success with the battery for some reason. The wall plug gave inconsistent readings such as the ones you are describing, however keeping the mix well blended and the bulb submerged ended up working out , it just took a while longer It will settle on a reading eventually, but may take a few moments. The WVO I use titrates consistantly at 5gr/liter, but I need another supplier for next season so I will be at it again soon. If you use an electronic PH meter are you calibrating it each time before use ? They tend to go out easily. Sorry to harp on elect. meters, that is the way I did/am doing it. I tried strips but got nowhere. I also tried the phenolthaline but got nowhere with it either, so I am sticking with the battery gizmo. It's not a cheapy so should last for a while :-). Luc - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:17 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration problems Hey, New guy to the bio diesel program here. I am having a problem with titration. I went to a local restaurant and picked up some wvo. I went thru the process and it showed a titration of 8.3. I started completely over and the results were exactly the same. Cool. Rather high though, so I went in search of a new supplier. I brought home two samples from different sources The first sample almost caught on fire on the stove, it looked like used motor oil, very black. The kitchen filled up with smoke and it was kinda hard to breath. Wife wasn't happy. Anyway, onward to better things. The second sample boiled out well. After cooling down, I began the process. With the oil/isopropyl mixture in the tube I checked its ph before adding any lye solution. It read 6.35. I then added 1 ml. lye solution, the ph read 7.36 Cool. Then added .5 ml. and the ph went to 7.46, another .5 ml., ph went to 7.51. Another 1 ml., ph read 7.53, another 1 ml., that's 4 milliliters now, ph read 7.53 again. After that, every time I added 1 ml. I lost 1 hundredth on the ph. At 9 milliliters I was at 7.49. Any body have any thoughts on why I
Re: [Biofuel] Titration problems
Are you using a warm water bath while doing the titration? A chopstick is also handy to continuously stir so that there will be no sepeartion. Secondly, are you using phenolthaline, strips or an electronic PH meter ? If the later, are you using it on battery or wall plug? I have had more success with the battery for some reason. The wall plug gave inconsistent readings such as the ones you are describing, however keeping the mix well blended and the bulb submerged ended up working out , it just took a while longer. It will settle on a reading eventually, but may take a few moments. The WVO I use titrates consistantly at 5gr/liter, but I need another supplier for next season so I will be at it again soon. If you use an electronic PH meter are you calibrating it each time before use ? They tend to go out easily. Sorry to harp on elect. meters, that is the way I did/am doing it. I tried strips but got nowhere. I also tried the phenolthaline but got nowhere with it either, so I am sticking with the battery gizmo. It's not a cheapy so should last for a while :-). Luc - Original Message - From: Daniel Breen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:17 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration problems Hey, New guy to the bio diesel program here. I am having a problem with titration. I went to a local restaurant and picked up some wvo. I went thru the process and it showed a titration of 8.3. I started completely over and the results were exactly the same. Cool. Rather high though, so I went in search of a new supplier. I brought home two samples from different sources The first sample almost caught on fire on the stove, it looked like used motor oil, very black. The kitchen filled up with smoke and it was kinda hard to breath. Wife wasn't happy. Anyway, onward to better things. The second sample boiled out well. After cooling down, I began the process. With the oil/isopropyl mixture in the tube I checked its ph before adding any lye solution. It read 6.35. I then added 1 ml. lye solution, the ph read 7.36. Cool. Then added .5 ml. and the ph went to 7.46, another .5 ml., ph went to 7.51. Another 1 ml., ph read 7.53, another 1 ml., that's 4 milliliters now, ph read 7.53 again. After that, every time I added 1 ml. I lost 1 hundredth on the ph. At 9 milliliters I was at 7.49. Any body have any thoughts on why I couldn't raise the ph above 7.53, and started loosing after that ? Am I doing something wrong or is this wvo just unusable? I repeated the whole process and the results were the same, couldn't get above 7.53 ph. I reheated the oil to see if there was still some water in it, there was not. Am I doing something wrong or is this oil just unusable? Thanks, Dan ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] titration
Il faut brasser le tout, tout en mesurant le PH. Il est possible qu'il y a un residue parce que le tout n'est pas continuellement melanger. Ton 8.5 est le total ou seulement la titration qui doit ensuite etere ajouter a ta base de catalyste ? Ca, ca va faire beaucoup de chaux si il s'agit de 8.5 + 3.5 pour egaler 12gr/litre. Change ton fournisseur et surtout ne mange jamais rien chez celui la :) Meme un total de 8.5 tout compris est up peu elever a moin d'utiliser du KOH au lieu du NaOH comme catalyste. Luc - Original Message - From: Aline/Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 1:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel] titration is it normal to have a precipitate at the bottom when approching 8.5ph? I use the better titration approach. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] titration
Hi Keith, bonjour Luc, the precipitate is kind of small beads of oil agglomerating as soon as I stop agitation, but big one at the end even with mixing. 3ml where added. ph strips used because electronic one give erratic results. Effectivement elles apparaissent quand j'arrete de mlanger. 8.5 est mon ph, 4 gr est ma titration + 3.5 me donne 7.5..qui doit tre plus acceptable:) je prsume. Il est bon de voir du francais, tant plus habile ds la langue de Molire..j'ai tellement de questions..j'en profite pr te demander si tu sais comment prparer une solution de phnol. je peux en avoir en poudre mais comment et avec quoi la mixer? ou trouve-t-on le KOH? gros bravo pr ton article/processeur qui saura en aider/motiver plus d'un! Thanks both, light begin to lit. Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] titration
La titration est grandement dependante sur la measure exacte d'huile dechet et d'alcohol Isopropyl. Aussi important est de garder la mixture au chaud dans un bain marie y ajoutant de l'eau chaude periodiquement. Ca aide a l'huile de ce melanger avec l'iso. Il y en a qui disent que l'iso a 70% fonctionne bien par contre moi j'utise le 99% obtenue chez une pharmacie en commande speciale de 24hrs. La lecture du PH est aussi important, et quand a moi ce fait mieux avec un element electronique. Il va sans le dire que ce dernier doit etre calibrer avant chaque utilisation. Ils sont disponible n'importe ou ou les aquarium a poison son vendus. Une titration d'une totalitee de 7.5gr/litre n'est pas pire, par contre ca pourait etre mieux (pour moi il est de 5gr/lt)mais au prix que ca coute on ne ce permet pas de se plaindre hein? On peut se procurer le KOH chez un fourniseur de produit chimique pour les ecoles et cegeps.A Laval Quebec il y en a un nomme Prolab Scientifique au 450-682.5118 ou 1-800-556.5226 tu demandes pour Mark.Ils ont tous les trucs electroniques aussi, quoique un peu cher mais de qualite. Quand a Moliere, il ce va sans dire qu'il a soufert le calvere, ce Moliere. Et que ses recit ne n'etais pas que des histoires en l'air, ce Moliere. Grand artisan de la langue de sa mere, ce Moliere Ce qui, en temps normal, lui servirait d'un aire, ce Moliere. Et avant de me faire envoyer en l'air, il faudrait mieux me taire. Luc PS: Merci pour tes mots d'encouragement sur mon projet bioD. And that ladies and germs will be the last time I will post uniquely in French as it is somewhat useless to those who do not speak it :) HOWEVER I may run an interpretation next time,ha! - Original Message - From: Aline/Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] titration Hi Keith, bonjour Luc, the precipitate is kind of small beads of oil agglomerating as soon as I stop agitation, but big one at the end even with mixing. 3ml where added. ph strips used because electronic one give erratic results. Effectivement elles apparaissent quand j'arrete de mlanger. 8.5 est mon ph, 4 gr est ma titration + 3.5 me donne 7.5..qui doit tre plus acceptable:) je prsume. Il est bon de voir du francais, tant plus habile ds la langue de Molire..j'ai tellement de questions..j'en profite pr te demander si tu sais comment prparer une solution de phnol. je peux en avoir en poudre mais comment et avec quoi la mixer? ou trouve-t-on le KOH? gros bravo pr ton article/processeur qui saura en aider/motiver plus d'un! Thanks both, light begin to lit. Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] titration
is it normal to have a precipitate at the bottom when approching 8.5ph? I use the better titration approach. What sort of precipitate? And how many ml of 0.1% NaOH solution had you added by then? How are you measuring the pH? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] titration problem
Hi all. I'm in the first stages of processing and ran into a titration problem. I don't seem to be able to get the wvo to mix properly with the rubbing alcohol. I've stirred vigorously but just end up with little beads of oil in the alcohol, any ideas?. Warm it up. Stand the beaker or whatever in a bowl of hot water. Generally, titrate at the same temperature you process at, about 55 deg C, 131 deg F. Are you using 99%+ isopropanol? 70% is said to work, but I tried it and didn't think it worked as well as 99%+. The WVO will not dissolve as easily in 70% as in 99%+. If your WVO has a lot of Free Fatty Acids (FFA) you'll have to add quite a lot of 0.01% NaOH solution for it to reach the desired pH of 8.5; it's mostly water, and the more you add the less inclined the WVO will be to stay dissolved in the alcohol. So stir! It doesn't make too much difference if it comes out of solution, you can still get an accurate pH reading. Most of the info I've read suggest that the correct amt of Na0H is between 6 and 6.25g per litre, and 15 to 20% methanol. That information is wrong. The correct amount is the amount indicated by titration plus the basic amount of 3.5 gm/litre v/v oil. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lyeamount How much lye to use? 15% methanol is too little: some oils need that or more for the stoichiometric amount, and excess is needed to push the reaction towards completion. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html How much methanol? I went ahead and blended three 1 litre batches with differing methanol and Na0H contents and here's what I got. #1..1 L.wvo 6.2g Na0H 15%methanol== Light honey colored after settlement, glycerine looked clear colored and like wax in the bottom of the jar. #2..1 L.wvo 6 g Na0H 15% methanol.. looked the same as the mix of 6.2g Na0H #3..1 L.wvo 6g Na0H 20% methanol light honey colored but appeared to be more glycerine and the glycerine was a darker almost brown color. Is there anything to be learned from the amount or color of the glycerine after the reaction? Not directly, and not really at that stage. I tried the wash test mixing equal parts H20 and finished product,on all three, but none of them separated cleanly. That's here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Take another sample from each of the test batches and do the next test, below the first one, which starts like this: Todd Swearingen of Appal Energy in the US offers some useful D-I-Y tests: The barnyard tests for your fuel are to take a liter of finished fuel, process it again as if it were virgin veg oil. If any more glycerine drops out, then you know it wasn't as good as it could have been... Virgin veg oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodnew Start again, at the beginning. Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then focus on getting the titration right so your test batches pass the two quality tests above. Be meticulous about it. Check that your scales are accurate as well as your measuring flasks, syringes or pipettes, that you're using high-grade lye, it's fresh, you've kept it dry, that whatever you're using to measure pH is up to the job: a good pH meter that can be calibrated (and is, regularly), or fresh phenolphthalein solution (keep it in the dark) - but NOT phenol red. When you check out Luc's processor page have a look at what he says about test batches. Read everything at this page about titration, lye, etc: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html Best wishes Keith Scratchin' my head on this one. Buck ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] titration problem
on 11/3/04 8:14 AM, Buck Corrigan at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. I'm in the first stages of processing and ran into a titration problem. I don't seem to be able to get the wvo to mix properly with the rubbing alcohol. I've stirred vigorously but just end up with little beads of oil in the alcohol, any ideas?. Some rubbing alcohol has over 20% water content -- better to use the anhydrous isopropanol sold as gasoline dryer in auto parts stores. Even then, it's only the free fatty acids that go into solution, not the oil itself. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] titration problem
Ken, Every gasoline dryers, that I have seen are Methanol ( at least around here ).OTOH, every diesel drier I have come across is Isopropanol. Most alcohol in the drug stores, is labeled as far as water content, and it is easy to find 75% Isopropanol and 90% Isopropanol is sitting next to it ( at least at Walgreen's ). - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 08:55 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] titration problem Some rubbing alcohol has over 20% water content -- better to use the anhydrous isopropanol sold as gasoline dryer in auto parts stores. Even then, it's only the free fatty acids that go into solution, not the oil itself. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Titration Question
The recipe seems clear on titrating: 10 ml isopropyl alcohol to 1 ml WVO. 1 ml is a VERY small amount. Is it the ratio that is important or is it important to use only those exact amounts? (i.e. if I double the amount but keep the ratio the same and then half the amount added to the batch of WVO, would that work as well? Kevin Hello Kevin See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate Better titration Unless you have a very accurate scale, it's not easy to measure exactly 1 gram of sodium hydroxide. It's much easier to measure 5 gm than 1 gm, so mix 5 gm of sodium hydroxide with 500 milliliters of distilled or de-ionized water. Before titration measure out 5 ml of the stock solution, add 45 ml of distilled or de-ionized water. This makes a 0.1% lye solution. It's also not easy to measure exactly 1 milliliter of oil. Instead of the usual 1 ml of oil and 10 ml of isopropyl alcohol, mix 4 ml of oil in 40 ml of isopropyl alcohol in a glass beaker. Warm the mixture gently by standing the beaker in hot water, stir until all the oil disperses and it becomes a clear mixture. Then titrate as usual, measuring milliliters of stock solution used. When it reaches pH8.5 count up the number of milliliters used as normal and divide by 4. This will give a much more precise measurement. To save on isopropyl alcohol, use 2 ml of oil in 20 ml of isopropyl and divide the results by two -- still twice as accurate. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Titration Question
On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 09:27 AM, intern99772003 wrote: The recipe seems clear on titrating: 10 ml isopropyl alcohol to 1 ml WVO. 1 ml is a VERY small amount. Is it the ratio that is important or is it important to use only those exact amounts? (i.e. if I double the amount but keep the ratio the same and then half the amount added to the batch of WVO, would that work as well? The amount of isopropanol is not important. The 1 ml of oil IS important to be accurate. One step I've started doing is titrating the alcohol all by itself (prior to adding the oil) with NaOH solution til you just get pink. Sometimes that can take a half-ml of NaOH soln., especially with old isopropanol. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration
Hello again Neil - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 4:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] titration Hello Neil Not sure I understand this. Sorry if I'm being dumb. Sunflower The sunflower refers to the background that my wife insists on having on our emails. Using Cottonseed and canola oil. I am having some major problems with the titration of my oil. Using digital ph meter Oil/Isopropyl Alcohol mix 6.4 pH6.4 before you started adding the NaOH. !% Caustic soda 10.5 What does this mean? opps typo was fairly late when I sent that. 1% 5ml lye in 5 litres of distilled water. Okay, but what's the 1% mean? Should it be 0.1%? 20ml iso, 2ml oil Doubling up like this makes for more accurate measurement, but it also means you have to divide the result by 2. yep was encouraged by the first 1ml then as it equates to .5ml The oil is a nice oil colour, not black. 1ml CS brings the reading to 6.9 and all is heading right. CS = 0.1% NaOH solution? 2ml of CS takes the reading to 6.85 3ml of CS takes the reading to 6.75 Lost my temper here slightly 12ml of CS took the reading to 6.35 ie below staring value. I've never seen it going down. Sometimes with really high FFA oil it just seems to sit at a particular level for ages as you keep on adding more lye solution, but finally it shifts up and everything's fine. Is this very heavily used sunflower oil? Nope changed weekly from a restaurant that does mainly pasta and Pizza dishes, Your iso is pure and new? It can get a bit acid if it's old stuff, and can pick up some moisture too. You can do a sort of dummy titration to check it - titrate without the oil, see what it takes to get it to neutral, then add the oil, proceed as normal and subtract the difference at the end. The iso was new but how long it remained in the chemical depot prior to decanting my 1 litre bottle I do not know. Same with the lye - new, pure and fresh? Same lye I used with the 15ltr test batch so it appears to work pretty well, again its history prior to me buying it last month are unknown. You dewatered the oil? yes boiled off the water prior to testing. Are you using distilled/de-ionized water? Yes Distilled water, least it says it is on the container. Have you calibrated your pH meter? Yes sat happily on 6.99 - 7.01, I was ok with that amount of error. Repeated with Phenolpthalien (sp) took 25 - 30 ml to get a pink colour. So that's proper phenolphthalein then, not Phenol Red. But indeed a titration of 15 ml would be somewhat high. Again, the phenol is fresh and pure? It must be kept away from light. The Phenol is not fresh, I liberated it from the science lab at school yesterday, they said it was quite old. Only got it to check my results with the PH meter. Am going to order 100gram packet of powder from school supplier. After 2ml the oil drops out of solution and is difficult to get to mix again. and the mixture turns a cloudy white colour. Yes, that happens. You have to keep stirring it. It helps if both the iso-oil mix and the lye solution are somewhat warm, about 30 deg C or so. That might make a difference to your readings unless your pH meter has automatic temperature control, but it won't be a real major difference - standard titration temperature is 25 deg C. I stood the glass bottle in a container of cooling boiling water ie the water was not contiually heated. Well, I dunno, everything seems okay, I can't offer an explanation. Maybe someone more experienced has something to offer. Anyway, try it again, see what happens. One suggestion - try titration with some virgin oil first. Brew up a small batch out of virgin oil too while you're at it. By the way, was this the same oil you used before, that I posted pictures of at the list website Files section? General opinion was that you'd used too much NaOH in that batch. Did you titrate it? If not, how much NaOH did you use? Yes same supplier. Did not titrate it as I had no Phenol at the time and the PH meter was enroute to me. Itchy trigger finger I guess so I used the info from Mikes site to try the 15 litre batch. 6.5gr Lye Okay, I'm sure you know this, but I have to say that Mike doesn't recommend that, though certain people have insisted that he does recommend just using 6.5 grams, and then told me I can't read what's shoved under my nose. (Hell, it's on my website, I worked on the thing with him, then edited it, you'd think I might know what it says.) Anyway, just for the record, Mike says this: I've found over time that the number of grams of lye needed per liter of WVO has generally been between 6 and 7. He also says this: To determine the correct amount of lye required, a titration must be performed on the oil being transesterified. This is the most
Re: [biofuel] titration
Hello Neil Not sure I understand this. Sorry if I'm being dumb. Sunflower I am having some major problems with the titration of my oil. Using digital ph meter Oil/Isopropyl Alcohol mix 6.4 pH6.4 before you started adding the NaOH. !% Caustic soda 10.5 What does this mean? 20ml iso, 2ml oil Doubling up like this makes for more accurate measurement, but it also means you have to divide the result by 2. 1ml CS brings the reading to 6.9 and all is heading right. CS = 0.1% NaOH solution? 2ml of CS takes the reading to 6.85 3ml of CS takes the reading to 6.75 Lost my temper here slightly 12ml of CS took the reading to 6.35 ie below staring value. I've never seen it going down. Sometimes with really high FFA oil it just seems to sit at a particular level for ages as you keep on adding more lye solution, but finally it shifts up and everything's fine. Is this very heavily used sunflower oil? Your iso is pure and new? It can get a bit acid if it's old stuff, and can pick up some moisture too. You can do a sort of dummy titration to check it - titrate without the oil, see what it takes to get it to neutral, then add the oil, proceed as normal and subtract the difference at the end. Same with the lye - new, pure and fresh? You dewatered the oil? Are you using distilled/de-ionized water? Have you calibrated your pH meter? Repeated with Phenolpthalien (sp) took 25 - 30 ml to get a pink colour. So that's proper phenolphthalein then, not Phenol Red. But indeed a titration of 15 ml would be somewhat high. Again, the phenol is fresh and pure? It must be kept away from light. After 2ml the oil drops out of solution and is difficult to get to mix again. and the mixture turns a cloudy white colour. Yes, that happens. You have to keep stirring it. It helps if both the iso-oil mix and the lye solution are somewhat warm, about 30 deg C or so. That might make a difference to your readings unless your pH meter has automatic temperature control, but it won't be a real major difference - standard titration temperature is 25 deg C. By the way, was this the same oil you used before, that I posted pictures of at the list website Files section? General opinion was that you'd used too much NaOH in that batch. Did you titrate it? If not, how much NaOH did you use? All help gratefully accepted as my hair is in clumps on the workshop floor. Sheesh, the guy's still got hair that he can pull out and he's complaining. :-) Best Keith Neil Canberra Australia Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Titration point
Be careful with phenolphthalein. It is the active ingredient in Exlax. Kirk -Original Message- From: Jonathan Pennington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 5:53 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Titration point This may sound like a stupid question, there are such things in my book. If I'm using a pH meter instead of Phenolphthalein to titrate my WVO, should I just add the lye/water solution until I reach 8-9 pH? The real question is, am I merely going for a slightly basic solution or is there a certain *specific* pH that I'm trying to reach. By the way, for any others who would email me about my buying a pH meter and the foolproof 2-stage method. I realize that it exists and that I don't need to titrate using it. I am *choosing* not to use it because I want to titrate, and want a single step. Just thought I'd save some people the trouble of emailing me. Thanks all -J -- Jonathan Pennington | [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's hard to take life too seriously when you realize yours is a joke. -original --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Titration?
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] Titration? - Original Message - From: Chris Amar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any suggestions out there as to where one would purchase 99% isopropyl alcohol? Try chemical reagent supply houses. Or your local auto parts store. Gas line anti-freeze comes in two types, methanol and iso-propanol. The local Meijers stores around here have both. The brand called HEET is MeOH and ISOHEET is isopropanol. Regards Joe. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Titration?
Chris, A salvaged compressor from a discarded refigerator creates both pressure and vaccuum. You can use the vaccuum to pull oil through filters. Much simpler than pumping and cost is zero. Dana --- Chris Amar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, I've enjoyed lurking here, educating myself from all your postings. I'm finally to the point of doing my first batch of biodiesel. I'm looking for a small pump I could purchase that I could use to pump the finished biodiesel through a series of filters down to 5 microns filtration. Any thoughts as to what types of pump would be most suitable and cost effective? I look forward to your suggestions. Best wishes, Chris Amar __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Titration?
- Original Message - From: Chris Amar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any suggestions out there as to where one would purchase 99% isopropyl alcohol? Try chemical reagent supply houses. regards Paul Gobert. www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Titration?
Back packers who want alcohol for their stoves get it from the vetinary supply. They have both grades. 91% doesn't heat very well. :) Camping stores charge more and chemical supply houses charge a LOT more unless you buy it by the barrel. At least around here. Kirk -Original Message- From: Paul Gobert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:53 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Titration? - Original Message - From: Chris Amar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any suggestions out there as to where one would purchase 99% isopropyl alcohol? Try chemical reagent supply houses. regards Paul Gobert. www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.310 / Virus Database: 171 - Release Date: 12/19/2001 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] titration ph question
kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: evaporate water when all NaCl is converted. a thin electroplate of platinum on copper is a good all around electrode. Only a few pennies worth of platinum used. I think commercially they use graphite or lead-- Nickel also comes to mind. Chemistry is an interest not a forte. I always look up before I use. See what your books your local library has on electrochemistry. Library at nearest university would be best and local library may have lending arrangement with them. hot melt glue makes a good sealer for copper fastened to whatever. Hi Kirk Come on, give us a good recipe a chemistry dumbo like me can follow. Lots of folks would be deeply grateful to you. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:28 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] titration ph question So.. use rock salt in a fully saturated DI water solution and use what for electrodes? I'm thinking you would end up with a lot of rusty mess, and how do you extract the NaOH since it will be in the water? Thanks I will make it if I can make the process work :) -Martin Klingensmith --- kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salt (NaCl) and electricity yields sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and hydrogen and chlorine. Chlorine can be reacted with the hydrogen to form hydrochloric acid (HCl or muriatic acid) which can be sold to pool maintenance, plumbers, etc or reacted with CaCO3 (limestone or shells) to form calcium chloride which has uses as a de-icer etc. Why buy when it can be made so easily? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] titration ph question
OK. Have to finish my paper Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource first. Auto alternator will work well if you replace the regulator and place diodes external to unit. I think if people knew how inexpensive bleach etc is they would be annoyed. The container costs more than the product for most household chemicals. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:09 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] titration ph question kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: evaporate water when all NaCl is converted. a thin electroplate of platinum on copper is a good all around electrode. Only a few pennies worth of platinum used. I think commercially they use graphite or lead-- Nickel also comes to mind. Chemistry is an interest not a forte. I always look up before I use. See what your books your local library has on electrochemistry. Library at nearest university would be best and local library may have lending arrangement with them. hot melt glue makes a good sealer for copper fastened to whatever. Hi Kirk Come on, give us a good recipe a chemistry dumbo like me can follow. Lots of folks would be deeply grateful to you. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:28 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] titration ph question So.. use rock salt in a fully saturated DI water solution and use what for electrodes? I'm thinking you would end up with a lot of rusty mess, and how do you extract the NaOH since it will be in the water? Thanks I will make it if I can make the process work :) -Martin Klingensmith --- kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salt (NaCl) and electricity yields sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and hydrogen and chlorine. Chlorine can be reacted with the hydrogen to form hydrochloric acid (HCl or muriatic acid) which can be sold to pool maintenance, plumbers, etc or reacted with CaCO3 (limestone or shells) to form calcium chloride which has uses as a de-icer etc. Why buy when it can be made so easily? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
- Original Message - From: Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] titration ph question I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution. My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital PH meters? Burnett as others have explained pH meters only give reliable readings in ionic solutions and WVO is not usually ionic. The pH value is an indication of hydrogen ion or hydroxide ion content of a material. Measuring the pH of water with a pH meter is difficult, you will notice that the meter takes a long time to stabilise if it does at all. As Todd has suggested pH papers would be more suitable. They offer a more reliable, simpler and less expensive method. High tech they may not be but they work. They made from a mixture of indicators impregnated into paper strips. Can be purchased on reels in various ranges ie 6-8 or 8-10 etc. Universal indicator solution is also useful. Again it is a mixture of indicators. Another use for it is testing the pH of soils etc. Barium sulphate is spread over the surface of the soil, universal indicator added and the soil pH determined by matching the colour tinge of the barium sulphate to the colour chart. Regards Paul Various pH ranges are available Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
Digital meters don't work too well, due to lack of ions in the oil. They measure degree of acidity etc not amount of Go to phenolphthalein as the man says and save loads of grief. If you want to look a pH of oil, use an aquarium wide band pH tester - it does give an indication Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution. My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. When I put 1 ml of wvo in 99% IPA then try to titrate with the caustic soln. I only get about 0.2ml in before I hit 8.2 PH. This is dark brown WVO so I don't think that reading is right. I have done a test batch with 6.25grams Sodium Hydroxide and everything came out right. So my question is is the caustic soln. I made off... what should the PH of this soln. be. Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital PH meters? The Red Devil Lye runs about US 4.00 dollars for 510 grams is this right? Can you get Sodium Hydroxide cheaper in another form or in bulk? At 08:14 PM 6/8/2001 +0100, you wrote: Hi all. Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration. On the practical side I'm at a loss here. This is what I ve done. I mixed 1ml of wvo with 10ml Isopropol alcohol (ipa) I made up a working solution of lye with distilled water 1 litre and 1 gm of caustic. I buffered my digital ph meter at 7 and 10 I'm aiming for 8.5ph after adding lye at increments of 1/10th ml Firstly, my ipa measures 11ph my distilled water about 8.4ph adding lye to the mix just pushes it up. What am I doing wrong now! If the water is reading 8.4 this will put the lye concentration out. Is there something wrong with my water, ipa, me? Laugh a minute hey guys :O Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
Where can I get Red Devil lye? I can't get it anywhere around here - and 510 grams, as long as it is somewhat pure, is a good price - I would think. -Martin Klingensmith --- Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution. My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. When I put 1 ml of wvo in 99% IPA then try to titrate with the caustic soln. I only get about 0.2ml in before I hit 8.2 PH. This is dark brown WVO so I don't think that reading is right. I have done a test batch with 6.25grams Sodium Hydroxide and everything came out right. So my question is is the caustic soln. I made off... what should the PH of this soln. be. Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital PH meters? The Red Devil Lye runs about US 4.00 dollars for 510 grams is this right? Can you get Sodium Hydroxide cheaper in another form or in bulk? At 08:14 PM 6/8/2001 +0100, you wrote: Hi all. Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration. On the practical side I'm at a loss here. This is what I ve done. I mixed 1ml of wvo with 10ml Isopropol alcohol (ipa) I made up a working solution of lye with distilled water 1 litre and 1 gm of caustic. I buffered my digital ph meter at 7 and 10 I'm aiming for 8.5ph after adding lye at increments of 1/10th ml Firstly, my ipa measures 11ph my distilled water about 8.4ph adding lye to the mix just pushes it up. What am I doing wrong now! If the water is reading 8.4 this will put the lye concentration out. Is there something wrong with my water, ipa, me? Laugh a minute hey guys :O Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] titration ph question
Salt (NaCl) and electricity yields sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and hydrogen and chlorine. Chlorine can be reacted with the hydrogen to form hydrochloric acid (HCl or muriatic acid) which can be sold to pool maintenance, plumbers, etc or reacted with CaCO3 (limestone or shells) to form calcium chloride which has uses as a de-icer etc. Why buy when it can be made so easily? -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 2:17 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] titration ph question Where can I get Red Devil lye? I can't get it anywhere around here - and 510 grams, as long as it is somewhat pure, is a good price - I would think. -Martin Klingensmith --- Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution. My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. When I put 1 ml of wvo in 99% IPA then try to titrate with the caustic soln. I only get about 0.2ml in before I hit 8.2 PH. This is dark brown WVO so I don't think that reading is right. I have done a test batch with 6.25grams Sodium Hydroxide and everything came out right. So my question is is the caustic soln. I made off... what should the PH of this soln. be. Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital PH meters? The Red Devil Lye runs about US 4.00 dollars for 510 grams is this right? Can you get Sodium Hydroxide cheaper in another form or in bulk? At 08:14 PM 6/8/2001 +0100, you wrote: Hi all. Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration. On the practical side I'm at a loss here. This is what I ve done. I mixed 1ml of wvo with 10ml Isopropol alcohol (ipa) I made up a working solution of lye with distilled water 1 litre and 1 gm of caustic. I buffered my digital ph meter at 7 and 10 I'm aiming for 8.5ph after adding lye at increments of 1/10th ml Firstly, my ipa measures 11ph my distilled water about 8.4ph adding lye to the mix just pushes it up. What am I doing wrong now! If the water is reading 8.4 this will put the lye concentration out. Is there something wrong with my water, ipa, me? Laugh a minute hey guys :O Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] titration ph question
So.. use rock salt in a fully saturated DI water solution and use what for electrodes? I'm thinking you would end up with a lot of rusty mess, and how do you extract the NaOH since it will be in the water? Thanks I will make it if I can make the process work :) -Martin Klingensmith --- kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salt (NaCl) and electricity yields sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and hydrogen and chlorine. Chlorine can be reacted with the hydrogen to form hydrochloric acid (HCl or muriatic acid) which can be sold to pool maintenance, plumbers, etc or reacted with CaCO3 (limestone or shells) to form calcium chloride which has uses as a de-icer etc. Why buy when it can be made so easily? -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 2:17 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] titration ph question Where can I get Red Devil lye? I can't get it anywhere around here - and 510 grams, as long as it is somewhat pure, is a good price - I would think. -Martin Klingensmith --- Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution. My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. When I put 1 ml of wvo in 99% IPA then try to titrate with the caustic soln. I only get about 0.2ml in before I hit 8.2 PH. This is dark brown WVO so I don't think that reading is right. I have done a test batch with 6.25grams Sodium Hydroxide and everything came out right. So my question is is the caustic soln. I made off... what should the PH of this soln. be. Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital PH meters? The Red Devil Lye runs about US 4.00 dollars for 510 grams is this right? Can you get Sodium Hydroxide cheaper in another form or in bulk? At 08:14 PM 6/8/2001 +0100, you wrote: Hi all. Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration. On the practical side I'm at a loss here. This is what I ve done. I mixed 1ml of wvo with 10ml Isopropol alcohol (ipa) I made up a working solution of lye with distilled water 1 litre and 1 gm of caustic. I buffered my digital ph meter at 7 and 10 I'm aiming for 8.5ph after adding lye at increments of 1/10th ml Firstly, my ipa measures 11ph my distilled water about 8.4ph adding lye to the mix just pushes it up. What am I doing wrong now! If the water is reading 8.4 this will put the lye concentration out. Is there something wrong with my water, ipa, me? Laugh a minute hey guys :O Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] titration ph question
evaporate water when all NaCl is converted. a thin electroplate of platinum on copper is a good all around electrode. Only a few pennies worth of platinum used. I think commercially they use graphite or lead-- Nickel also comes to mind. Chemistry is an interest not a forte. I always look up before I use. See what your books your local library has on electrochemistry. Library at nearest university would be best and local library may have lending arrangement with them. hot melt glue makes a good sealer for copper fastened to whatever. -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:28 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] titration ph question So.. use rock salt in a fully saturated DI water solution and use what for electrodes? I'm thinking you would end up with a lot of rusty mess, and how do you extract the NaOH since it will be in the water? Thanks I will make it if I can make the process work :) -Martin Klingensmith --- kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salt (NaCl) and electricity yields sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and hydrogen and chlorine. Chlorine can be reacted with the hydrogen to form hydrochloric acid (HCl or muriatic acid) which can be sold to pool maintenance, plumbers, etc or reacted with CaCO3 (limestone or shells) to form calcium chloride which has uses as a de-icer etc. Why buy when it can be made so easily? -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 2:17 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] titration ph question Where can I get Red Devil lye? I can't get it anywhere around here - and 510 grams, as long as it is somewhat pure, is a good price - I would think. -Martin Klingensmith --- Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution. My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. When I put 1 ml of wvo in 99% IPA then try to titrate with the caustic soln. I only get about 0.2ml in before I hit 8.2 PH. This is dark brown WVO so I don't think that reading is right. I have done a test batch with 6.25grams Sodium Hydroxide and everything came out right. So my question is is the caustic soln. I made off... what should the PH of this soln. be. Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital PH meters? The Red Devil Lye runs about US 4.00 dollars for 510 grams is this right? Can you get Sodium Hydroxide cheaper in another form or in bulk? At 08:14 PM 6/8/2001 +0100, you wrote: Hi all. Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration. On the practical side I'm at a loss here. This is what I ve done. I mixed 1ml of wvo with 10ml Isopropol alcohol (ipa) I made up a working solution of lye with distilled water 1 litre and 1 gm of caustic. I buffered my digital ph meter at 7 and 10 I'm aiming for 8.5ph after adding lye at increments of 1/10th ml Firstly, my ipa measures 11ph my distilled water about 8.4ph adding lye to the mix just pushes it up. What am I doing wrong now! If the water is reading 8.4 this will put the lye concentration out. Is there something wrong with my water, ipa, me? Laugh a minute hey guys :O Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. When I put 1 ml of wvo in 99% IPA then try to titrate with the caustic soln. I only get about 0.2ml in before I hit 8.2 PH. This is dark brown WVO so I don't think that reading is right. I have done a test batch with 6.25grams Sodium Hydroxide and everything came out right. ... I think I would switch to pH paper and can the meters if you're getting a distilled water reading of 12.2 Just another 1.8 on the reading and your distilled water would be hazardous waste. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
In southwestern Missouri any True Value Hardware They have it in the plumbing section. At 01:16 PM 6/9/2001 -0700, you wrote: Where can I get Red Devil lye? I can't get it anywhere around here - and 510 grams, as long as it is somewhat pure, is a good price - I would think. -Martin Klingensmith --- Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution. My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of 12.2. When I put 1 ml of wvo in 99% IPA then try to titrate with the caustic soln. I only get about 0.2ml in before I hit 8.2 PH. This is dark brown WVO so I don't think that reading is right. I have done a test batch with 6.25grams Sodium Hydroxide and everything came out right. So my question is is the caustic soln. I made off... what should the PH of this soln. be. Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital PH meters? The Red Devil Lye runs about US 4.00 dollars for 510 grams is this right? Can you get Sodium Hydroxide cheaper in another form or in bulk? At 08:14 PM 6/8/2001 +0100, you wrote: Hi all. Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration. On the practical side I'm at a loss here. This is what I ve done. I mixed 1ml of wvo with 10ml Isopropol alcohol (ipa) I made up a working solution of lye with distilled water 1 litre and 1 gm of caustic. I buffered my digital ph meter at 7 and 10 I'm aiming for 8.5ph after adding lye at increments of 1/10th ml Firstly, my ipa measures 11ph my distilled water about 8.4ph adding lye to the mix just pushes it up. What am I doing wrong now! If the water is reading 8.4 this will put the lye concentration out. Is there something wrong with my water, ipa, me? Laugh a minute hey guys :O Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
The sacks are plastic Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
- Original Message - From: ian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:14 AM Subject: [biofuel] titration ph question Hi all. Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration. Ian, pH meters have their uses but determining the endpoint of a titration of this nature is not one of them. Would suggest you go back to use of phenolphthalein indicator to determine appropriate endpoint. If you make up your own phenolphthalein soln don't forget to neutralise it after preparation as the ethanol used is acidic and will effect the end result. From memory a 1% solution is prepared by dissolving .1g of phenolphthalein in 85 mls denatured ethanol, then build volume up to 100ml with distilled water and add dilute NaOH solution with stirring until the phenolphthalein solution shows the faintest pink tinge. Regards Paul Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
