date:20100115

Philip Shipley wrote:
 
 Is there any tagging that I can add to highways that appear blocked 
 according to the latest GeoEye so that you automatically identify the 
 highway as an AvoidArea?

 From the WikiProject_Haiti page :

Road blockage
- For small obstacles on the highway which may be visible in GeoEye 
imagery: barrier=obstacle.
- For a stretch of road which is impassable due to multiple obstacles or 
a debris field: impassable=yes


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[OSM-talk] [Haïti earthquake crisis response ] Please refresh tagwatch for North Amercia

http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/North-america/En/grouplist.html mentions 
Informations based on the North-america excerpt from the 2009-12-06 05:15.

I seems that various ways of tagging damage is being used. So far I have 
seen mentions of :

earthquake:damage=Collapsed_buiding
earthquake:damage=Damaged_infrastructure

building=collapsed
building=risky

We also have both earthquake:damage=Spontaneous_camp and the advised 
use of tourism=camp_site with refugee=yes. (tourism=camp_site is 
used because the correct amenity=camp does not render and is therefore 
of no use at the moment)

A Tagwatch pass might give us an assessment of what is actually used, 
and that might tell if mass harmonization to make the data more 
practical for the end users should be considered useful.

I have looked at some osmChange XML from users tagging camps and 
collapsed buildings. It seems, that building=collapsed and the 
tourism=camp_site with refugee=yes combination are popular, but 
nevertheless, the more systematic analysis by tagwatch might be useful.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Cycle route won't render

2010-01-15 Thread Richard Mann

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Adrian Moisey adr...@changeover.za.netwrote:

 I've managed to get pieces of it to render on the cycle map:
 http://osm.org/go/kaIGiwl?layers=00B0FTF'

Interestingly this appears as a GREEN cycle route, presumably because it's
tagged route=bicycle+network=mtb. I wish these things were documented a bit
more obviously.

I've added network=mtb to the Relation table on the Cycle Routes wiki page,
as a start.

Richard
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Haïti earthquake crisis response ] Please refresh tagwat ch for North Amercia

2010-01-15 Thread Patrick Petschge

Hi all,

 A Tagwatch pass might give us an assessment of what is actually used,
and that might tell if mass harmonization to make the data more
 practical for the end users should be considered useful.

I totally agree. Therefore I run a separate tagstat for the haiti extracts at

http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/

It updates every 15 minutes or so and is (due to the small database) very
fast.

HTH,
Patrick Petschge Kilian




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[OSM-talk] Haiti user activity reports

2010-01-15 Thread Gary68

hi,

whoever might need it. for the time being i frequently generate user
activity reports (actually maps) for haiti based on the data from
frederik/geofabrik.

you can then easily see where mapping took place.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#2010_Earthquake_Response 
- there are 4 generations of the report

cheers

gary68



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Re: [OSM-talk] [Haïti earthquake crisis response ] Please refresh tagwat ch for North Amercia

Patrick Petschge Kilian wrote:
 A Tagwatch pass might give us an assessment of what is actually used,
 and that might tell if mass harmonization to make the data more
 practical for the end users should be considered useful.
 
 I totally agree. Therefore I run a separate tagstat for the haiti extracts at
 http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/
 
 It updates every 15 minutes or so and is (due to the small database) very
 fast.

Excellent, thanks !

Here is some quick analysis :

Building :
http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/tagdetails.php?tag=building

tag usesnodeway
yes 951 4   947
collapsed   431 314 117
tank27  0   27
risky   2   2   0

Risky is surprisingly rare considering its usefulness, but I guess that 
with satellite imagery it is only possible to distinguish between normal 
and collapsed.

Other relevant tags :
http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/tagdetails.php?tag=refugee
http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/tagdetails.php?tag=tourism

tag value   usesnodeway
refugee yes 90  2   88
tourism camp_site   86  3   83  

There is only one amenity:camp... And it is in Copenhagen !

Note the interesting residential:shantytown area tag that might be 
useful to distinguish areas of different building types.

http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/search.php?query=earthquake 
does not show many earthquake:* tags. What we have :

http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/tagdetails.php?tag=earthquake:damage
tag usesnodeway
severe  5   0   5
partially_collapsed 2   0   2

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[OSM-talk] Our work is used in Haiti.

2010-01-15 Thread ouɐɯnH

search and rescue team in haiti, use osm maps in garmin GPS
Puentero, a Colombian  working on search and rescue operations in
Haiti, says thanks for the map

Many thanks Freddy.

Very timely maps of Haiti that sent me to the Garmin. I went down and
installed the GPS in our search and rescue teams.

OSM undoubtedly be a great help to our response teams, especially
those going to move to rural areas.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Carlos Andres Barrera Diaz
Date: 2010/1/15
Subject: RE: Openstreetmap en Haiti
To: fredyriv...@gmail.com


Mil gracias Fredy.

Muy oportunos los mapas de Haiti que me envio para el Garmin. Ya los
bajamos e instalamos en los GPS de nuestros equipos de busqueda y
rescate.

Sin duda OSM será una gran ayuda para nuestros grupos de respuesta,
especialmente los que vamos a desplazar hacia zonas rurales.

GRACIAS A LA FAMILIA OSM POR SU APOYO!

Carlos Andres Barrera
Sistema Nacional para la Prevencion y Atencion de Desastres
Direccion de Gestion del Riesgo
Mision Colombiana en Haiti

 From: fredyriv...@gmail.com
 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:17:08 -0500
 Subject: Openstreetmap en Haiti
 To: puentero_colom...@hotmail.com

 hola
 por tu mensaje automatico me he enterado que estas en haiti.

 mucha suerte por alla y te cuento que los maperos estan trabajando
 duro por alla
 http://www.google.com.co/search?sourceid=chromeie=UTF-8q=openstreetmap.org+haiti

 si te podemos ayudar en algo nos cuentas,
 salu2

 fredyrivera
 http://www.google.com.co/search?sourceid=chromeie=UTF-8q=openstreetmap.org+haiti
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 skype: llamarafredyrivera


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[OSM-talk] Haiti EQ response: haiti field-based requirement for osm maps on gps + install instruction to humanitarian workers with low GIS/ GPS culture

Hi

Below a field requirement form Haiti on gamrin gps maps which is half met

a garmin img file of roads and places with clear instructions for non-gis
users on how to load it to some common garmin units could be helpful.  We
should encourage humanitarians to load this before they arrive.  The GIS
staff in Haiti will not really be able to support loading this for people.

Ideal if this materials on this can be pointed.

Best
N

-- 
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Norplan, Abu Dhabi
GIS Expert and Project Manager
Mobile (UAE): + 971 56 602 35 15
Mobile (FRA): +33 6 75 14 29 70
Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
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Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti EQ response: haiti field-based requirement for osm maps on gps + install instruction to humanitarian workers with low GIS/ GPS culture


Am 15.01.2010 um 15:01 schrieb nicolas chavent:

 Hi
 
 Below a field requirement form Haiti on gamrin gps maps which is half met
 
 a garmin img file of roads and places with clear instructions for non-gis 
 users on how to load it to some common garmin units could be helpful.  We 
 should encourage humanitarians to load this before they arrive.  The GIS 
 staff in Haiti will not really be able to support loading this for people.

Overlaying the additional information with gpx files might be easier and faster 
than building a special maps style. In the osm wiki we have quite a lot of 
instructions on how to load the maps onto a garmin device. Problem is, that it 
differs based on the device and data used by the people.

Jonas (John07)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti EQ response: haiti field-based requirement for osm maps on gps + install instruction to humanitarian workers with low GIS/ GPS culture

2010-01-15 Thread Frédéric Bonifas

Here is a quick start (French and English) :
http://fredericbonifas.free.fr/osm/garmin.html#installation
Some material is here also :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin#Installing_the_map_onto_your_GPS

If needed, I can translate a new tutorial to French for in-field use.

Frédéric

2010/1/15 nicolas chavent nicolas.chav...@gmail.com:
 Hi

 Below a field requirement form Haiti on gamrin gps maps which is half met

 a garmin img file of roads and places with clear instructions for non-gis
 users on how to load it to some common garmin units could be helpful.  We
 should encourage humanitarians to load this before they arrive.  The GIS
 staff in Haiti will not really be able to support loading this for people.

 Ideal if this materials on this can be pointed.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti EQ response: haiti field-based requirement for osm maps on gps + install instruction to humanitarian workers with low GIS/ GPS culture

Hi

Worthy to harvest those resources, organize a set of links in
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti and perhaps put a stand
alone doc

N

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Jonas Krückel o...@jonas-krueckel.dewrote:


 Am 15.01.2010 um 15:01 schrieb nicolas chavent:

  Hi
 
  Below a field requirement form Haiti on gamrin gps maps which is half met
 
  a garmin img file of roads and places with clear instructions for non-gis
 users on how to load it to some common garmin units could be helpful.  We
 should encourage humanitarians to load this before they arrive.  The GIS
 staff in Haiti will not really be able to support loading this for people.

 Overlaying the additional information with gpx files might be easier and
 faster than building a special maps style. In the osm wiki we have quite a
 lot of instructions on how to load the maps onto a garmin device. Problem
 is, that it differs based on the device and data used by the people.

 Jonas (John07)




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Norplan, Abu Dhabi
GIS Expert and Project Manager
Mobile (UAE): + 971 56 602 35 15
Mobile (FRA): +33 6 75 14 29 70
Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
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Re: [OSM-talk] Cycle route won't render

2010-01-15 Thread Felix Hartmann




On 15.01.2010 11:22, Richard Mann wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Adrian Moisey 
adr...@changeover.za.net mailto:adr...@changeover.za.net wrote:


I've managed to get pieces of it to render on the cycle map:
http://osm.org/go/kaIGiwl?layers=00B0FTF'

Interestingly this appears as a GREEN cycle route, presumably because 
it's tagged route=bicycle+network=mtb. I wish these things were 
documented a bit more obviously.
I've added network=mtb to the Relation table on the Cycle Routes wiki 
page, as a start.

Richard

I took it out again. I will be too confusing to have network=mtb.
a) there are also networks for mtb routes. (e.g. Alpentour Austria, a 21 
day mtb route going from Vienna, over Lower Austria into Styria )
b) route=mtb is already in wide use. Even though there could be 
borderline cases of what is a supereasy mtb route, or a bicycle route 
along very badly maintained tracks the decision should usually be easy. 
At least in Europe the route maintainer will allways classify as bicycle 
or mtb route.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Our work is used in Haiti.

2010-01-15 Thread David Fawcett

Related to this, I was thinking last night if it would be of value if
there was a Web service/app like maposmatic
http://www.maposmatic.org/ to support work in Haiti.

The OSM data would be overlaid with Military Grid lines to provide a
coordinate system that many of the military operations are used to.

A tool like this may not be of any use to SAR people on the ground, or
even if it was, it may not be practical based on conditions on the
ground, but I thought that I would throw the idea out there.

David.


I don't know much about how international search and rescue works, and
I am guessing that with the current state of the infrastructure in
Haiti, it may be impossible to download frequent updates of map
products for distribution to field staff.

2010/1/15 ouɐɯnH fredyriv...@gmail.com:
 search and rescue team in haiti, use osm maps in garmin GPS
 Puentero, a Colombian  working on search and rescue operations in
 Haiti, says thanks for the map

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[OSM-talk] TAG-Suggestion: highway:trailer_shipment

2010-01-15 Thread Carsten Moeller

Hey folks,

first of all I'll have to apologize my bad english.
I also hope that this is the right place for my question.

I'm playing around with pgRouting and OSM - mainly in the north of 
Germany. (Schleswig-Holstein / Hamburg)
I came across some annoying issues.
There are several islands that can only be reached by ferry or train.
So I filtered tags like railway=rail, route=ferry in combination with 
motorway=yes (For the germans: you all should know the Hindenburdamm to 
the island Sylt).
The first thing that is quite wrong is that streets are connected to 
railroads the whole way long. In case of Sylt you exactly have one ramp 
in Niebuell and another in Westerland (Sylt). In between you have to go 
pickapack. By the way, it's the same problem with the ferries.

So, as these kinds of transports' main purpose is replacing highways, 
they should be regardes AS highways.

So what about tags like

highway = trailer_railway
highway = trailer_ferry

we then could connect them to streets as if they were highways.

Regards

PiMapper


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Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti EQ response: haiti field-based requirement for osm maps on gps + install instruction to humanitarian workers with low GIS/ GPS culture

2010-01-15 Thread Iván Sánchez Ortega

El Viernes, 15 de Enero de 2010, Frédéric Bonifas escribió:
 Here is a quick start (French and English) :
 http://fredericbonifas.free.fr/osm/garmin.html#installation
 Some material is here also :
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin#Installing_the_map_ont
o_your_GPS

 If needed, I can translate a new tutorial to French for in-field use.

I can say the same, but for spanish. AFAIK, there are quite some 
spanish-speaking ER teams out there.

Just drop me an e-mail.


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Our work is used in Haiti.

2010-01-15 Thread Sam Vekemans

Yup, all it needs is a border around the city and it (should) work.

In the mean time, walkingpapers can print the cyclemap (contours) 
regular version of the area.

Sam

On 1/15/10, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Related to this, I was thinking last night if it would be of value if
 there was a Web service/app like maposmatic
 http://www.maposmatic.org/ to support work in Haiti.

 The OSM data would be overlaid with Military Grid lines to provide a
 coordinate system that many of the military operations are used to.

 A tool like this may not be of any use to SAR people on the ground, or
 even if it was, it may not be practical based on conditions on the
 ground, but I thought that I would throw the idea out there.

 David.


 I don't know much about how international search and rescue works, and
 I am guessing that with the current state of the infrastructure in
 Haiti, it may be impossible to download frequent updates of map
 products for distribution to field staff.

 2010/1/15 ouɐɯnH fredyriv...@gmail.com:
 search and rescue team in haiti, use osm maps in garmin GPS
 Puentero, a Colombian  working on search and rescue operations in
 Haiti, says thanks for the map

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OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] Our work is used in Haiti.

2010-01-15 Thread Frédéric Bonifas

Administrative boundaries are available here :
https://www.geoint-online.net/community/haitiearthquake/DataServices/default.aspx

Frédéric

2010/1/15 Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com:
 Yup, all it needs is a border around the city and it (should) work.

 In the mean time, walkingpapers can print the cyclemap (contours) 
 regular version of the area.

 Sam

 On 1/15/10, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Related to this, I was thinking last night if it would be of value if
 there was a Web service/app like maposmatic
 http://www.maposmatic.org/ to support work in Haiti.

 The OSM data would be overlaid with Military Grid lines to provide a
 coordinate system that many of the military operations are used to.

 A tool like this may not be of any use to SAR people on the ground, or
 even if it was, it may not be practical based on conditions on the
 ground, but I thought that I would throw the idea out there.

 David.


 I don't know much about how international search and rescue works, and
 I am guessing that with the current state of the infrastructure in
 Haiti, it may be impossible to download frequent updates of map
 products for distribution to field staff.

 2010/1/15 ouɐɯnH fredyriv...@gmail.com:
 search and rescue team in haiti, use osm maps in garmin GPS
 Puentero, a Colombian  working on search and rescue operations in
 Haiti, says thanks for the map

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Simone Cortesi

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 02:21, Schuyler Erle schuy...@nocat.net wrote:

  http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/$z/$x/$y.jpg

 You can also use this custom imagery URL in Potlatch:

  http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/!/!/!.png

 Finally, there's WMS for use in JOSM:

  http://maps.nypl.org/relief/maps/wms/32?request=GetMapversion=1.1.1styles=format=image/pngsrs=epsg:4326exceptions=application/vnd.ogc.se_inimage;

 These URLs are using the exact same image as the gravitystorm.dev.osm
 server, but might be under less load...

Is the image (the nypl) as of now correctly placed if opened in JOSM?

I see many shifted building and somewhere also a problems with the
coastline. is this just older data that need to be moved around or is
there some shift in the imagery?

-- 
-S

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Re: [OSM-talk] Our work is used in Haiti.

Hi,

Sam Vekemans wrote:
 In the mean time, walkingpapers can print the cyclemap (contours) 
 regular version of the area.

For those with large printers/plotters (though there may not be many on 
the ground) I am doing large PNGs regularly, at 
labs.geofabrik.de/haiti/large-png-maps. Suitable for an A0 size 
printout. It's the same you would get from the export tab on the main 
osm site just that the export tab won't let you do that size (about 15k 
by 10k pixels).

Bye
Frederik


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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread John F. Eldredge

You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed 
thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via 
landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc.

--Original Message--
From: Simone Cortesi
Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
To: Schuyler Erle
Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd
Sent: Jan 15, 2010 9:58 AM

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 02:21, Schuyler Erle schuy...@nocat.net wrote:

  http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/$z/$x/$y.jpg

 You can also use this custom imagery URL in Potlatch:

  http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/!/!/!.png

 Finally, there's WMS for use in JOSM:

  http://maps.nypl.org/relief/maps/wms/32?request=GetMapversion=1.1.1styles=format=image/pngsrs=epsg:4326exceptions=application/vnd.ogc.se_inimage;

 These URLs are using the exact same image as the gravitystorm.dev.osm
 server, but might be under less load...

Is the image (the nypl) as of now correctly placed if opened in JOSM?

I see many shifted building and somewhere also a problems with the
coastline. is this just older data that need to be moved around or is
there some shift in the imagery?

-- 
-S

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Simone Cortesi

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:07, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
 You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed 
 thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via 
 landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc.

so, the image is correctly placed and I can safely move the coast
around to match it?

-- 
-S

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread John F. Eldredge

I haven't had a chance to compare the image to the map; I am just pointing out 
that some discrepancies are likely to be due to earthquake damage, not mapping 
errors.

--Original Message--
From: Simone Cortesi
To: John Eldredge
Cc: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
Cc: Schuyler Erle
Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd
Sent: Jan 15, 2010 10:11 AM

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:07, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
 You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed 
 thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via 
 landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc.

so, the image is correctly placed and I can safely move the coast
around to match it?

--
-S

-- 
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Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Joseph Reeves

Do you have a link to a bit that isn't right? There's been a lot of
coastline tidying since yesterday - wouldn't want to see us
duplicating effort.

Cheers, Joseph



2010/1/15 Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com:
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:07, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
 You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed 
 thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via 
 landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc.

 so, the image is correctly placed and I can safely move the coast
 around to match it?

 --
 -S

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[OSM-talk] For Heavy dissemination: GPS materials for GIS and non-GIS responders: OSM data as garmin img for GPS + loading instructions

The OpenStreetMap community is heavily mobilized to support the relief
efffort in Haiti. This results in a valuable data set available as
shapefile, WFS for GIS use and garmin images for use in GPS.
all available for download at http://labs.geofabrik.de/haiti/

It's important to HEAVILY DISSEMINATE these GPS resources (GPS extracts +
instructions) for the responders (specifically the non GISers) who are not
yet in Haiti so that they can download the data and take work out of the
hands of the GISers on the ground. The instruction are included below, and
if needed will be updated on the OSM Wiki Project at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti

Another resource worthy to mention for any collected tracks (regardless of
any attribution), is its upload on the OSM architecture. They can be used at
least for quality check on the geometrical quality of the produced
information
Once registered in OSM, this can be done in the OSM wiki at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces


GPS

1. garmin img at http://labs.geofabrik.de/haiti/latest.garmin.zip

2. Below, first draft of loading instructions, more to come; ideal to have
your views on its usefeulness.


To put this map onto your GPS follow these instructions:
* Download the map at
* Rename the file to gmapsupp.img
* Plug the GPS unit in “mass storage mode” (Setup-Interface-USB Mass
Storage)
* Put the file gmapsupp.img in the Garmin directory (create the directory if
it does not exist)
* Unplug the GPS unit

There will be continual updates made as new data becomes available in
OpenStreetMap.
Haiti view of OpenStreetMap:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.72lon=-72.68zoom=8layers=B000FTF

OpenStreetMap community is focusing on building a fully open dataset of
infrastructure data from historic maps, satellite imagery, and on the ground
reports. This data is available to users for putting onto their GPS units,
analysis, and route planning.

-- 
Nicolas Chavent
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Mobile (FRA): +33 6 75 14 29 70
Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread andrzej zaborowski

2010/1/15 Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com:
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:07, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
 You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed 
 thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via 
 landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc.

 so, the image is correctly placed and I can safely move the coast
 around to match it?

There are some imported roads in Haiti from before the earthquake and
some GPS traces, you can compare against them.  Generally I would
rather move the imagery than pre existing stuff, it's a common trap to
align to misaligned imagery.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Andy Allan

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:07, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
 You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed 
 thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via 
 landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc.

 so, the image is correctly placed and I can safely move the coast
 around to match it?

The imagery isn't rectified using ground control points obtained via
GPS units, if that's what you're asking, so no, it's not going to be
100% accurate. I'm not certain what was used to rectify it, but I
suspect either Yahoo imagery or OSM data itself.

If you find an area where all the OSM data is off by a fixed amount,
then don't worry about moving the data, move the imagery instead. And
don't worry about it overly much, since anyone on the ground with a
GPS unit will be able to cope with a 5-10m displacement.

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Simone Cortesi

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:27, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

 The imagery isn't rectified using ground control points obtained via
 GPS units, if that's what you're asking, so no, it's not going to be
 100% accurate. I'm not certain what was used to rectify it, but I
 suspect either Yahoo imagery or OSM data itself.

 If you find an area where all the OSM data is off by a fixed amount,
 then don't worry about moving the data, move the imagery instead. And
 don't worry about it overly much, since anyone on the ground with a
 GPS unit will be able to cope with a 5-10m displacement.

have a look here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=18.542645lon=-72.337311zoom=18tileurl=http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/!/!/!.png
(the 2 circles in the center of the image)

or here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=18.546683lon=-72.349488zoom=18
(coastline)

-- 
-S

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Micha Ruh

2010/1/15 Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com

 Is the image (the nypl) as of now correctly placed if opened in JOSM?


No!


 is this just older data that need to be moved around or is
 there some shift in the imagery?


No, please don't move around existing data without verifying with other
image layers, try comparing with Yahoo imagery and existing ways (watch for
primary and secondary roads, which where imported earlier), those are
expected to be most correct. Try aligning the nypl images to this.

Regards, Micha
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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Joseph Reeves

or here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=18.546683lon=-72.349488zoom=18

Looks fine to me...


2010/1/15 Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com:
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:27, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

 The imagery isn't rectified using ground control points obtained via
 GPS units, if that's what you're asking, so no, it's not going to be
 100% accurate. I'm not certain what was used to rectify it, but I
 suspect either Yahoo imagery or OSM data itself.

 If you find an area where all the OSM data is off by a fixed amount,
 then don't worry about moving the data, move the imagery instead. And
 don't worry about it overly much, since anyone on the ground with a
 GPS unit will be able to cope with a 5-10m displacement.

 have a look here:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=18.542645lon=-72.337311zoom=18tileurl=http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/!/!/!.png
 (the 2 circles in the center of the image)

 or here: 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=18.546683lon=-72.349488zoom=18
 (coastline)

 --
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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Andy Allan

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:27, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

The imagery isn't rectified using ground control points obtained via
GPS units, if that's what you're asking, so no, it's not going to be
100% accurate. I'm not certain what was used to rectify it, but I
suspect either Yahoo imagery or OSM data itself.

If you find an area where all the OSM data is off by a fixed amount,
then don't worry about moving the data, move the imagery instead. And
don't worry about it overly much, since anyone on the ground with a
GPS unit will be able to cope with a 5-10m displacement.

have a look here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=18.542645lon=-72.337311zoom=18tileurl=http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/!/!/!.png
(the 2 circles in the center of the image)

or here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=18.546683lon=-72.349488zoom=18
(coastline)

Right, so the imagery and the OSM data are out of alignment by a few
metres. I'm not sure what answer you want?

Either the imagery is a few metres out, or the data is a few metres
out. I don't know any more than you do. The only way to fix it is for
someone there, with multiple GPSes, to go up and down the roads (and
up and down the hills, too) until we have sufficient GPS traces to
tell which is correct. Or, we do the best with what we've got.

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Daily Updates to CloudMade Routing

2010-01-15 Thread Nick Black

Hi Alex,

We just updated the tile set today with data from Tue 15th.  There are
minutely tiles available at mapzen.cloudmade.com - but they aren't
available through the API at the moment.

We're in the process of upgrading all services to daily updates - I
know the timelyness of data has been a problem in the past so I'm sure
this batch of updates will help.

--
Nick

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote:
 On 01/14/2010 05:10 AM, Nick Black wrote:
 Hi guys,

 Some of you use CloudMade's routing to debug your mapping.  We've had
 a lot of feedback that though useful, there are two problems:

 1 - The routing is out of date, often lagging many days behind
 2 - There are bugs with turn restrictions

 As of this week, we are updating routing every 24 hours which should
 help with checking mapping and finding errors.  Routing should update
 by early evening GMT (16.00 is the target time) with data from the
 previous day.  So at 16:00 on Friday 15th Dec, routing will have data
 up to 00:00 on Friday 15th Dec.   This is a new service, so exact
 completion times for the import will probably vary.

 Is this already happening?  Does it affect rendering, or just routing?
 Is it worldwide?  I have a road which I updated more than a week ago
 which has not updated on cloudmade’s maps yet.

 -Alex Mauer “hawke”


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-- 
-- 
Nick Black
twitter.com/nick_b

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[OSM-talk] Japanese government's satellite imaginary for Haiti Earthquake

2010-01-15 Thread Shun N. Watanabe

Hi,

Japanese government's satellite imaginary for Haiti Earthquake are permitted  
to be used for mapping.
See the detail at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#JAXA.27s_satellite_imaginary

This is low resolution but wide. I hope it can help people in Haiti.

 Shun N. Watanabe

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[OSM-talk] DG_crisis_even service ERROR

2010-01-15 Thread diego lesmes


DG_crisis_even service
This layer does not align properly with the other layer of geoeye here 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.53884lon=-72.42786zoom=16layers=B000FTF,
 use geofabrik shp and wms 
http://maps.geography.uc.edu/cgi-bin/mapserv?map=/home/cgn/public_html/maps/mapfiles/haiti.map
 shp
but useless so
 
best regards
harrierco
  
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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Paul Houle

Maybe I've missed it but is there any page that's easily accessable 
to OSM outsiders about the Haiti mapping efforts?  This page is full of 
info but intimidating:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Mapping_the_earthquake_area

I'd really like to see something that looks more like a press release...

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Emilie Laffray

On 15/01/2010 19:43, Paul Houle wrote:
 Maybe I've missed it but is there any page that's easily accessable 
 to OSM outsiders about the Haiti mapping efforts?  This page is full of 
 info but intimidating:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Mapping_the_earthquake_area

 I'd really like to see something that looks more like a press release...
   

+1
I have been trying to get people to pick up this page to raise awareness
on how they can help, but a better page would help for the neophyte.

Emilie Laffray



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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd

2010-01-15 Thread Patrick Kilian

Hi all,
 Maybe I've missed it but is there any page that's easily accessable 
 to OSM outsiders about the Haiti mapping efforts?  This page is full of 
 info but intimidating:
 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Mapping_the_earthquake_area
 
 I'd really like to see something that looks more like a press release...

I created a first stab at that at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti/Press_info


HTH,
Patrick Petschge Kilian

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Re: [OSM-talk] TAG-Suggestion: highway:trailer_shipment

2010-01-15 Thread Ulf Lamping

Am 15.01.2010 15:43, schrieb Carsten Moeller:
 Hey folks,

 first of all I'll have to apologize my bad english.
 I also hope that this is the right place for my question.

 I'm playing around with pgRouting and OSM - mainly in the north of
 Germany. (Schleswig-Holstein / Hamburg)
 I came across some annoying issues.
 There are several islands that can only be reached by ferry or train.
 So I filtered tags like railway=rail, route=ferry in combination with
 motorway=yes (For the germans: you all should know the Hindenburdamm to
 the island Sylt).
 The first thing that is quite wrong is that streets are connected to
 railroads the whole way long. In case of Sylt you exactly have one ramp
 in Niebuell and another in Westerland (Sylt). In between you have to go
 pickapack. By the way, it's the same problem with the ferries.

 So, as these kinds of transports' main purpose is replacing highways,
 they should be regardes AS highways.

 So what about tags like

 highway = trailer_railway
 highway = trailer_ferry

 we then could connect them to streets as if they were highways.

Just yesterday I've collected infos about a more general approach to 
this. However, I've focussed on the terminals and not on the way between 
them.

The problem: This stuff is also available for long distance (e.g. 
overnight) travel from north to south europe with varying routes, so 
simply using highway=trailer_railway probably won't work well here. 
Maybe better using a relation for this?

I've appended my first ideas for a proposal page.

Regards, ULFL


motorail

Regular transportation of car/motorcycle packed on a train and travels 
to the destination.
The driver travels together with it's vehicle and may need to stay 
inside the vehicle or travels in a normal (or sleeping) train waggon.

Both short term (e.g. through the channel tunnel) and long term (e.g. 
overnight from Hamburg to Vienna) travels are common.

This is *not* for plain car transportation, e.g. delivering a newly 
build car from the manufacturer to it's a customer.


What to tag:
The specific place to board the train.

Suggested tag:
amenity=motorail_terminal (on node or area)
name=* (e.g. Autozug Terminal München-Ost)
operator=* (e.g. Deutsch Bahn AG)

Clarify:
Also tag route/destinations? Maybe using relations?

See Also
amenity=ferry_terminal

Weblinks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoverladung (german)

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[OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

2010-01-15 Thread Stefan de Konink

As subject.

Can we just grant anyone that want to report news, help on site, to use 
vector and bitmap data without creative commons madness?

I think it is very ethical to say yes to the above.


Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

2010-01-15 Thread Claudius

We can't, because the idea of a license is that it applies to anyone 
in any situation, but... Nullum ius sine actione / Wo kein Kläger, da 
kein Richter / There is no judge, without a complainant

Claudius

Am 15.01.2010 22:04, Stefan de Konink:
 As subject.

 Can we just grant anyone that want to report news, help on site, to use
 vector and bitmap data without creative commons madness?

 I think it is very ethical to say yes to the above.


 Stefan



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Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

2010-01-15 Thread Stefan de Konink

Op 15-01-10 22:26, Claudius schreef:
 We can't, because the idea of a license is that it applies to anyone
 in any situation, but... Nullum ius sine actione / Wo kein Kläger, da
 kein Richter / There is no judge, without a complainant

So maybe anyone that as objectives to going PD for humanitarian missions 
can notice that on the wiki page.

It seems that commercial companies do get the point...


Stefan

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[OSM-talk] Extended GeoEye imagery now available for use on OSM

We just got permission from GeoEye to use some new imagery which
covers a lot more area than what we currently have, this shows the
extent:

http://v.nix.is/~avar/geoeye-extent.png

The imagery is 23 TIFF files which I'm mirroring here:

http://cassini.toolserver.org/haitiearthquake-geoeye-tiffs/

The Google server is very slow so please don't hammer it more. I'll
see about setting up a torrent or something when we've got it all.

These are orthorectified 8-bit compresed GeoTiffs, who can help with
turning these into something usable for OSM editors? I have no idea
how the TIFF - WMS|Tiles process goes.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

Hi,

Stefan de Konink wrote:
 It seems that commercial companies do get the point...

Yes but you're missing the point. I'm all for ditching the share-alike 
hassle but until we do that, everyone holds rights to their data and has 
*not* agreed to a clause that says the data is license-free for crisis 
mapping.

There are 169 contributors to the OSM Haiti data set. If you get an OK 
from all of them, then the data can be released PD. You have my OK, and 
yours, so you'll just need another 167.

They are:

chippy, Elwood, Dave Smith, ikiya, bass, katpatuka, SK53, andygates, 
robert, olvagor, balrog-kun, AlNo, samlarsen1, harrierco, cetest, 
Lulu-Ann, fsteggink, Anthony Balico, Ithaca-import, Basstoelpel, Chris 
Parker, s_Frantz, toaster, bahnpirat, IknowJoseph, rendle, Hawkeye, 
neuhausr, Zambelli Limitada, florisje, vsandre, ColinMarquardt, 
davespod, Flacus, rurseekatze, FredB, Harry Wood, Esperanza36, alv, 
dmgroom, jaakkoh, vreimer, llibre, Mirko Küster, Phil Shipley, 
RDSantiago, Augustus Kling, ceyockey, zvenzzon, XBear, Leonardo 
Gutierrez, Gianfra, rjhale1971, Fairfield, jkjk, mbuege, Tim Litwiller, 
Jochen Plumeyer, Bráulio Bezerra, tomoki, AbeFroman, dankarran, Simone 
Gadenz, mightym, Andy Allan, JP CASSOU, AssetBurned, mapistanbul, MCA, 
daveemtb, AndrewL, seejay, aude, Black_Ivory_1986, nazotoko, JeLuF, lyx, 
AndreR, WillyBeato, mikes, -jha-, prantolima, rw__, om3g4, maning, kjon, 
miozzo, BugBuster, jgc, Ciprian, Bman, bri g, stuphi, higa4, Richard, 
Bikeman2000, wambacher, STA, RichardB, Eddy Frometa, Osbornec, Luther__, 
Hobby Navigator, Quentel, simone, Mountainman2, MatWay, nfrantz0, tiger, 
imapi, Gurduloo, ALE!, harfner, Ivanovici, muffu, Grausewitz, Diego 
Guidotti, Divebalu, Islanit, keinseier, ij_, MAPconcierge, ivansanchez, 
alfa91, tcarobruce, giovand, ajeba, jamesks, comsomol, kallam, 
GrdScarabe, Mathbau, amillar, EdLoach, springmeyer, David Paleino, 
Dalkvist, nickb, Gandhi, sadam, sim, riad, pitscheplatsch, Claudius 
Henrichs, Wag, JRA2, Frankie Roberto, Cyrond, alexaforever, mdroads, 
Helder, crashi, vdb, jvbrug, fluteflute, discostu, usuyu, FK270673, 
ulfl, Tom_G3X, timothylclark, robhedrick, Rene_A, rcr, Jesús Gómez, 
Damouns, Andre68.

(This might include a few people who have mapped in the DomRep or Cuba 
as these countries touch my excerpt area.)

If you are willing to release a partial map, for example one that only 
has 300.000 of the 336.000 objects, then you need only convince the 
first 25 of these people as they, together, account for over 90% of the 
data. Of course then you have to make sure that what these 25 did was 
not virulently affected by what the other 140 did whom you did not ask, 
and any of whom may later sue one of the charities you have given the 
data to.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

2010/1/16 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
 Hi,

 Stefan de Konink wrote:
 It seems that commercial companies do get the point...

 Yes but you're missing the point. I'm all for ditching the share-alike
 hassle but until we do that, everyone holds rights to their data and has
 *not* agreed to a clause that says the data is license-free for crisis
 mapping.

Even commercial companies aren't doing PD, they are allowing all uses
except commercial uses.

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Re: [OSM-talk] TAG-Suggestion: highway:trailer_shipment

2010-01-15 Thread Carsten Moeller

Ulf Lamping schrieb:
 Am 15.01.2010 15:43, schrieb Carsten Moeller:
 Hey folks,

 first of all I'll have to apologize my bad english.
 I also hope that this is the right place for my question.

 I'm playing around with pgRouting and OSM - mainly in the north of
 Germany. (Schleswig-Holstein / Hamburg)
 I came across some annoying issues.
 There are several islands that can only be reached by ferry or train.
 So I filtered tags like railway=rail, route=ferry in combination with
 motorway=yes (For the germans: you all should know the Hindenburdamm to
 the island Sylt).
 The first thing that is quite wrong is that streets are connected to
 railroads the whole way long. In case of Sylt you exactly have one ramp
 in Niebuell and another in Westerland (Sylt). In between you have to go
 pickapack. By the way, it's the same problem with the ferries.

 So, as these kinds of transports' main purpose is replacing highways,
 they should be regardes AS highways.

 So what about tags like

 highway = trailer_railway
 highway = trailer_ferry

 we then could connect them to streets as if they were highways.
 
 Just yesterday I've collected infos about a more general approach to 
 this. However, I've focussed on the terminals and not on the way between 
 them.
 
 The problem: This stuff is also available for long distance (e.g. 
 overnight) travel from north to south europe with varying routes, so 
 simply using highway=trailer_railway probably won't work well here. 
 Maybe better using a relation for this?
 
 I've appended my first ideas for a proposal page.
 
 Regards, ULFL
 
 
 motorail
 
 Regular transportation of car/motorcycle packed on a train and travels 
 to the destination.
 The driver travels together with it's vehicle and may need to stay 
 inside the vehicle or travels in a normal (or sleeping) train waggon.
 
 Both short term (e.g. through the channel tunnel) and long term (e.g. 
 overnight from Hamburg to Vienna) travels are common.
 
 This is *not* for plain car transportation, e.g. delivering a newly 
 build car from the manufacturer to it's a customer.
 
 
 What to tag:
 The specific place to board the train.
 
 Suggested tag:
 amenity=motorail_terminal (on node or area)
 name=* (e.g. Autozug Terminal München-Ost)
 operator=* (e.g. Deutsch Bahn AG)
 
 Clarify:
 Also tag route/destinations? Maybe using relations?
 
 See Also
 amenity=ferry_terminal
 
 Weblinks
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail
 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoverladung (german)
Hello Ulf ...

yes, osm relations are one possible solution. But from the view of a 
pgRouter it is a very stony way to collect that data back into a routing 
table. You are right, that there should be a tag like terminal or 
ramp or even simpler link.
 From the perspective of a street map a pickapack railway or ferry has 
the same quality as e.g. highway=pedestrian.
So I'd prefer sth. like highway=railway, highway=ferry, 
highway=railway_link and highway=ferry_link.
This info is enough for pgRouting to create a topology.
Additional properties can be assigned to amenity or railway of course.






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[OSM-talk] Arbeitsmatrix für Haiti

Hi,
ich versuche seit gestern Abend den Autor von dem Tool http://osm.m0nty.de/ zu 
erreichen, das wäre perfekt, um die Arbeit in Haiti zu koordinieren. Weiß 
jemand, ob das Tool OpenSource ist und wo wir den Source Code bekommen können? 
Hat jemand eine andere E-Mail-Adresse von dem Autor als die vom Impressum?
Leute, die das Tool dann anpassen und bereitstellen, sind schon bereit.

Gruß
Jonas
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[OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

Hi there

Here's a set of humanitarian data models for consideration in the making of
the OSM tags for the Haiti Operation to make our data easily readable and
interoperable with other established thematic data sets of relevance and
used by the hum mapping community in the response to the Haiti EQ.


*Transportation*.

The United Nations Spatial Data Infrastructure for Transport (UNSDIT),
details available at
http://www.corporateaid.org/UNJLC/mapcenter/unsdi/unsdit-v2/index.html

Light Data model browsable
 at
http://www.corporateaid.org/UNJLC/mapcenter/unsdi/unsdit-v2/resolveuid/ebd2ace463b8de2644541aaf7a6d6950

This model had been developed by the late UN Joint Logistics Centre and is
now used by the UN logistics Centre, the World Food Programme and had been
adopted by many UN agencies to organize their transportation layers
It is interoperable with main transportation data models.
The following projects are using it:

GRIP http://geoservice.pbl.nl/website/GRIP/ Global Road Information
Project
gROADS http://www.codata.org/taskgroups/WGglobalroads/index.html Global
Roads Open Access Data Set
GIST https://gist.itos.uga.edu/Geogrpahical information support team:
their public domain road global data set is available under this model



*Health*

See attached Health Facility Data model in html built up for to support the
MapKibera project with WHO materials

OpenHealth Tagging System

   - Health facility (HFac)
  -

  date of the survey
  - HFacSurvDt
- Consistency needed there in date format

  health facility UID (country registry code)
  - HFacOUID

  health facility Survey UID
  - HFacUID

  health facility Official name (country registry code)
  - HFacONm

  health facility Current name (survey)
  - HFacCrtNm

  postal address (street number, city, postal code, other; in some
  circumstances, a facility may have some but not all of the postal address
  elements and in these cases the elements that are present should be
  recorded; if the facility has no postal address at all, this
element would
  be omitted)
  - HFacAdr

  main telephone number
  - HFacPhn

  main fax number
  - HFacFax

  main e-mail address
  - HFacEml

  name of the director
  - HFacDirNm

  director’s telephone phone number
  - HFacDirPhn

  facility’s geographic administrative unit level 1
  - AdmU1

  facility’s geographic administrative unit level 2
  - AdmU2

  Latitude
  - Lat

  Longitude
  - Long

  1. Power (a grid and/or functional generator with fuel)

  2. Improved water source within facility (UNICEF definitions)

  4. Toilet facilities for clients (UNICEF definitions)

  3. Room with auditory and visual privacy for patient consultations

  5. Communication equipment

  6. Emergency transport

  7. Overnight beds for 24 hour emergency care

  15. Antenatal Care (ANC)

  16. Facility-based delivery

  17. Family Planning

  18. Child immunization

  20. Sexually transmitted infection (STI) treatment

  19. Sick child care U5 (curative care for children offered daily)

  21. Prevention of mother to child transmission (PMTCT)

  22. Counseling  Testing for HIV

  23. Palliative care (including treatment of opportunistic infections)

  24. Antiretroviral treatment (ART) or follow up

  25. Tuberculosis (TB) treatment or follow up


and below the structure of WHO Global Health Fac Layer from the shapefile
downloadable on their geonetwork node.

The layer with WHO health facilities dataset is called *
WHO:world_healthfacility_point*http://apps.who.int/tools/geoserver/wms?bbox=-212.0655047731199,-182.81850477311988,179.9535047731199,209.2005047731199styles=Format=application/openlayersrequest=GetMapversion=1.1.1layers=WHO:world_healthfacility_pointwidth=600height=550srs=EPSG:4326
 http://apps.who.int/tools/geoserver/mapPreview.do

KML link:
http://apps.who.int/tools/geoserver/wms/kml?layers=WHO:world_healthfacility_point

The attributes are currently the following:
ID: 34
UnitId: BFH8
Lat: 14.049
Long: -0.026
Name: DORI
UnitType: 1
Code:
Num: 0.0
Comment:
ISO_Ctry: BF
Name_Ctry: Burkina Faso
UnitTypeNa: Hospital


*Damage assessment*

See attached in html the UNOSAT and ITHACA data models from their last
releases.

Damage Assessment Data model in support of OSM tagging

   - UNOSAT
  - Data model from UNOSAT KML
  - IDP Sites
  - Bridges
  - Obstacles
  - Operational Status
 - Closed
 - Restricted
   - ITHACA
  - Data model from ITHACA shp
  - Categories - Classes
 - collapsed buildings
 - damaged infrastructure
 - landslide
 - spontaneous camp




-- 
Nicolas Chavent
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Mobile (FRA): +33 6 75 14 29 70
Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ


Am 15.01.2010 um 23:06 schrieb nicolas chavent:

 
 Hi there
 
 Here's a set of humanitarian data models for consideration in the making of 
 the OSM tags for the Haiti Operation to make our data easily readable and 
 interoperable with other established thematic data sets of relevance and used 
 by the hum mapping community in the response to the Haiti EQ.
 
 [...]
 
 See attached in html the UNOSAT and ITHACA data models from their last 
 releases.
 
 Damage Assessment Data model in support of OSM tagging
 
 UNOSAT
 Data model from UNOSAT KML
 IDP Sites
 Bridges
 Obstacles
 Operational Status
 Closed
 Restricted
 ITHACA
 Data model from ITHACA shp
 Categories - Classes
 collapsed buildings
 damaged infrastructure
 landslide
 spontaneous camp

This data has been imported and I already got newer data. Help and suggestions 
for syncing and merging data in the future is needed.
More info on that: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import

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Re: [OSM-talk] Arbeitsmatrix für Haiti

Jonas Krückel wrote:
 Hi, ich versuche seit gestern Abend den Autor von dem Tool
 http://osm.m0nty.de/ zu erreichen, das wäre perfekt, um die Arbeit in
 Haiti zu koordinieren. Weiß jemand, ob das Tool OpenSource ist und wo
 wir den Source Code bekommen können? Hat jemand eine andere
 E-Mail-Adresse von dem Autor als die vom Impressum? Leute, die das
 Tool dann anpassen und bereitstellen, sind schon bereit.

This list is English language only. There is a German language list at
talk...@openstreetmap.org


Translation (pardon my rusty German) :

Hi, since yesterday evening I'm trying to contact the author of
http://osm.m0nty.de/ which would be perfect to coordinate work in Haiti.
Does anybody know if that tool is open source and where we can get the
source code ? Does anyone have the author's e-mail address ? People who
can customize the tool and then deploy it are standing ready.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Arbeitsmatrix für Haiti


Am 15.01.2010 um 23:17 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier:

 Jonas Krückel wrote:
 Hi, ich versuche seit gestern Abend den Autor von dem Tool
 http://osm.m0nty.de/ zu erreichen, das wäre perfekt, um die Arbeit in
 Haiti zu koordinieren. Weiß jemand, ob das Tool OpenSource ist und wo
 wir den Source Code bekommen können? Hat jemand eine andere
 E-Mail-Adresse von dem Autor als die vom Impressum? Leute, die das
 Tool dann anpassen und bereitstellen, sind schon bereit.
 
 This list is English language only. There is a German language list at
 talk...@openstreetmap.org

Sorry, sent to osm-talk by accident. Unfortunately you can't undo sent :-)

Jonas

P.S: Your German is really good :-)
 
 
 Translation (pardon my rusty German) :
 
 Hi, since yesterday evening I'm trying to contact the author of
 http://osm.m0nty.de/ which would be perfect to coordinate work in Haiti.
 Does anybody know if that tool is open source and where we can get the
 source code ? Does anyone have the author's e-mail address ? People who
 can customize the tool and then deploy it are standing ready.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

2010-01-15 Thread andrzej zaborowski

2010/1/15 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de:
 Can we just grant anyone that want to report news, help on site, to use
 vector and bitmap data without creative commons madness?

What's the particular need for this?  I might agree but I don't see
off the top of my head any problems anyone could have to comply with
the CC-By-SA, be it in a news report or help on site.

Cheers

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[OSM-talk] US diverts spy drones from Afganistan to Haiti

U.S. Diverts Spy Drone from Afghanistan to Haiti From the article:
As part of the Haiti relief effort, the U.S. military is sharing
imagery from one of its high-end, high-flying spy drones, the RQ-4
Global Hawk. [...] “Today we’re going after another 1,000 images,
which will all be unclassified,” McCleary quotes Butz as saying.
“SOUTHCOM will provide it to whoever needs it.” Sharing imagery from a
spy drone may sound like an unusual move, but it’s part of a larger
push within the Pentagon to declassify and share imagery in stability
operations and disaster relief.

http://appdomains.slashgeo.org/article.pl?sid=10/01/15/1847209from=rss

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[OSM-talk] GeoEye pictures of the area e.g. around the airport?

2010-01-15 Thread AssetBurned

Hi,

I was wondering why the satellite images are limited to that area. I mean the 
city is bigger and I saw some markers for camps outside of the area we got as 
sat images from GeoEye at the moment.
So I was wondering why we are limited to that area?
Is there a good reason why we can't use some material which is a bit more east 
of what we can use at the moment?

cu AssetBurned
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

Jonas Krückel wrote:
 Am 15.01.2010 um 23:06 schrieb nicolas chavent:
 * ITHACA
   o Data model from ITHACA shp
   o Categories - Classes
 + collapsed buildings
 + damaged infrastructure
 + landslide
 + spontaneous camp 
 
 This data has been imported and I already got newer data. Help and
 suggestions for syncing and merging data in the future is needed.

 More info on
 that: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import

Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the dedicated
Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of earthquake:damage
tags has been done with a value of collapsed_buiding that of course
should be collapsed_building :

tag value   usesnode
earthquake:damage   collapsed_buiding   1,496   1,495

But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such typo...
Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ?

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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye pictures of the area e.g. around the airport?


Am 15.01.2010 um 23:30 schrieb AssetBurned:

 Hi,
 
 I was wondering why the satellite images are limited to that area. I mean the 
 city is bigger and I saw some markers for camps outside of the area we got as 
 sat images from GeoEye at the moment.
 So I was wondering why we are limited to that area?

We are not limited to that area. We have imagery from Digital Globe which has 
more coverages (but is sometimes slightly off) and we are currently working to 
get more GeoEye imagery up.

Jonas


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Re: [OSM-talk] US diverts spy drones from Afganistan to Haiti

John Smith wrote:
 U.S. Diverts Spy Drone from Afghanistan to Haiti From the article:
 As part of the Haiti relief effort, the U.S. military is sharing
 imagery from one of its high-end, high-flying spy drones, the RQ-4
 Global Hawk. [...] “Today we’re going after another 1,000 images,
 which will all be unclassified,” McCleary quotes Butz as saying.
 “SOUTHCOM will provide it to whoever needs it.” Sharing imagery from a
 spy drone may sound like an unusual move, but it’s part of a larger
 push within the Pentagon to declassify and share imagery in stability
 operations and disaster relief.
 
 http://appdomains.slashgeo.org/article.pl?sid=10/01/15/1847209from=rss

I spotted two of those pictures uploaded on Flickr earlier today :
- National Cathedral :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/usairforce/4276842020/
- Presidential Palace :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/usairforce/4276842014/


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Re: [OSM-talk] Extended GeoEye imagery now available for use on OSM

2010-01-15 Thread Jeffrey Ollie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
ava...@gmail.com wrote:

 These are orthorectified 8-bit compresed GeoTiffs, who can help with
 turning these into something usable for OSM editors? I have no idea
 how the TIFF - WMS|Tiles process goes.

MapServer should be able to take those TIFF files and serve them up as
WMS,  I've done it for a number of TIFFs for personal use.

http://mapserver.org/

-- 
Jeff Ollie

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ


Am 15.01.2010 um 23:32 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier:

 Jonas Krückel wrote:
 Am 15.01.2010 um 23:06 schrieb nicolas chavent:
* ITHACA
  o Data model from ITHACA shp
  o Categories - Classes
+ collapsed buildings
+ damaged infrastructure
+ landslide
+ spontaneous camp 
 
 This data has been imported and I already got newer data. Help and
 suggestions for syncing and merging data in the future is needed.
 
 More info on
 that: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import
 
 Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the dedicated
 Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of earthquake:damage
 tags has been done with a value of collapsed_buiding that of course
 should be collapsed_building :
 
 tag   value   usesnode
 earthquake:damage collapsed_buiding   1,496   1,495
 
 But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such typo...
 Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ?

I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/ and JOSM. 
No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed.

Jonas
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

2010/1/16 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org:
 But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such typo...
 Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ?

Use the search function in JOSM and just edit the tag in the tag pane.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

2010-01-15 Thread Patrick Kilian

Hi all,

 But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such
 typo... Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ?
 
 I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/
 and JOSM. No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed.
Looks good. Only 4 collapsed_buiding left.


Patrick Petschge Kilian

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

Jonas Krückel wrote:
 Am 15.01.2010 um 23:32 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier:
 
 Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the
 dedicated Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of
 earthquake:damage tags has been done with a value of
 collapsed_buiding that of course should be collapsed_building :
 
 I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/
 and JOSM. No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed.

Now we have :

tag value   uses
earthquake:damage   collapsed_building  1,499
fixme:building  collapsed   1,492
buildingcollapsed   787
earthquake_damage   collapsed   2

Time for harmonization ?

earthquake_damage should obviously be earthquake:damage.

fixme:building=collapsed looks like it should be
earthquake:damage=collapsed_building - but maybe there is a reason for
fixme that I'm not aware of.

earthquake:damage=collapsed_building is the ITHACA way. Should we
convert all the building=collapsed to it ? I would say yes, because
collapsed is not a type of building but a building attribute - the
ITHACA way is semantically superior.

If no one is depending on fixme:building=collapsed or
building=collapsed then I'll convert them. Does the map rendering of
collapsed buildings such as http://zvenzzon.mine.nu:81/map.html
understand earthquake:damage=collapsed_building ? Considering the
number of icons represented, it would appear so.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ


Am 16.01.2010 um 00:08 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier:

 Jonas Krückel wrote:
 Am 15.01.2010 um 23:32 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier:
 
 Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the
 dedicated Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of
 earthquake:damage tags has been done with a value of
 collapsed_buiding that of course should be collapsed_building :
 
 I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/
 and JOSM. No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed.
 
 Now we have :
 
 tag   value   uses
 earthquake:damage collapsed_building  1,499
 fixme:buildingcollapsed   1,492
 building  collapsed   787
 earthquake_damage collapsed   2
 
 Time for harmonization ?
 
 earthquake_damage should obviously be earthquake:damage.
 
 fixme:building=collapsed looks like it should be
 earthquake:damage=collapsed_building - but maybe there is a reason for
 fixme that I'm not aware of.
 
 earthquake:damage=collapsed_building is the ITHACA way. Should we
 convert all the building=collapsed to it ? I would say yes, because
 collapsed is not a type of building but a building attribute - the
 ITHACA way is semantically superior.
 
 If no one is depending on fixme:building=collapsed or
 building=collapsed then I'll convert them. Does the map rendering of
 collapsed buildings such as http://zvenzzon.mine.nu:81/map.html
 understand earthquake:damage=collapsed_building ? Considering the
 number of icons represented, it would appear so.

Please have a look at the information here: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import
Please do not change this tags right now. We are still not sure how to work on 
further updates of the data and Ithaca might also still need this tags.

Jonas

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Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

Hi,

John Smith wrote:
 2010/1/16 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
 Hi,

 Stefan de Konink wrote:
 It seems that commercial companies do get the point...
 Yes but you're missing the point. I'm all for ditching the share-alike
 hassle but until we do that, everyone holds rights to their data and has
 *not* agreed to a clause that says the data is license-free for crisis
 mapping.
 
 Even commercial companies aren't doing PD, they are allowing all uses
 except commercial uses.

So if a charity employs a freelance driver, the driver, being 
commercial, is not allowed to use the map, whereas the charity employee 
sitting next to him can? Great, I'm sure that helps feed the lawyers.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

Jonas Krückel wrote:
 Am 16.01.2010 um 00:08 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier:
 [..]
 fixme:building=collapsed looks like it should be 
 earthquake:damage=collapsed_building - but maybe there is a
 reason for fixme that I'm not aware of.
 [..]
 
 Please have a look at the information here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import 
 Please do not change this tags right now. We are still not sure how
 to work on further updates of the data and Ithaca might also still
 need this tags.

The text from the wiki at the above adresse :

---

After checking the data, please remove the fixme tags in front of the
other tags. Please keep the source tags.

To find data that needs fixing (data with FIXME= ), open the
ithaca-import-fixme.gpx from here in JOSM and zoom to the little crosses.

---

So yes, there is definitely a reason for fixme that I was not aware
of. I'll leave them alone !

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Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?

2010/1/16 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
 Even commercial companies aren't doing PD, they are allowing all uses
 except commercial uses.

 So if a charity employs a freelance driver, the driver, being commercial, is
 not allowed to use the map, whereas the charity employee sitting next to him
 can? Great, I'm sure that helps feed the lawyers.

No, eg GeoEye, anyone can do anything with their imagery except reselling it.

There is no commercial use limitation on the CC-BY-SA, changes just
have to be made available.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Extended GeoEye imagery now available for use on OSM

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 22:39, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
 ava...@gmail.com wrote:

 These are orthorectified 8-bit compresed GeoTiffs, who can help with
 turning these into something usable for OSM editors? I have no idea
 how the TIFF - WMS|Tiles process goes.

 MapServer should be able to take those TIFF files and serve them up as
 WMS,  I've done it for a number of TIFFs for personal use.

I just meant to mirror them to something faster than the  Google
server (the OSM cluster should get ~30MB/s from cassini).

It would be better if someone else could set up the actual tile/wms serving.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Extended GeoEye imagery now available for use on OSM

2010-01-15 Thread Ian Dees

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
ava...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 22:39, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:
  On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
  ava...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  These are orthorectified 8-bit compresed GeoTiffs, who can help with
  turning these into something usable for OSM editors? I have no idea
  how the TIFF - WMS|Tiles process goes.
 
  MapServer should be able to take those TIFF files and serve them up as
  WMS,  I've done it for a number of TIFFs for personal use.

 I just meant to mirror them to something faster than the  Google
 server (the OSM cluster should get ~30MB/s from cassini).

 It would be better if someone else could set up the actual tile/wms
 serving.


Once we have the images someone will start tiling them. If I don't start as
soon as the images are done, I'm sure Andy will.
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Re: [OSM-talk] US diverts spy drones from Afganistan to Haiti

Hi,

John Smith wrote:
 Sharing imagery from a
 spy drone may sound like an unusual move

I thought they did so routinely ;-)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Cycle route won't render

2010-01-15 Thread Steve Bennett

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Felix Hartmann
extremecar...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I took it out again. I will be too confusing to have network=mtb.
 a) there are also networks for mtb routes. (e.g. Alpentour Austria, a 21 day
 mtb route going from Vienna, over Lower Austria into Styria )
 b) route=mtb is already in wide use. Even though there could be borderline
 cases of what is a supereasy mtb route, or a bicycle route along very badly
 maintained tracks the decision should usually be easy. At least in Europe
 the route maintainer will allways classify as bicycle or mtb route.

Suggestion: if the Cycle Map supports a given tag, then we should
document that fact. Now, whether we want to deprecate it is a separate
question, but removing correct, relevant information doesn't really
help the cause.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Cycle route won't render

2010-01-15 Thread Cartinus

On Saturday 16 January 2010 00:47:43 Steve Bennett wrote:
 Suggestion: if the Cycle Map supports a given tag, then we should
 document that fact. Now, whether we want to deprecate it is a separate
 question, but removing correct, relevant information doesn't really
 help the cause.

If renderer XYZ renders amenity=llibrary with a library icon (to catch 
a common typo), then we could document that somewhere on a page about 
renderer XYX. However we definitely should not document this as a valid tag 
on the amenity page.

-- 
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: [OSM-talk] Cycle route won't render

2010-01-15 Thread Felix Hartmann



On 16.01.2010 01:27, Cartinus wrote:
 On Saturday 16 January 2010 00:47:43 Steve Bennett wrote:

 Suggestion: if the Cycle Map supports a given tag, then we should
 document that fact. Now, whether we want to deprecate it is a separate
 question, but removing correct, relevant information doesn't really
 help the cause.
  
 If renderer XYZ renders amenity=llibrary with a library icon (to catch
 a common typo), then we could document that somewhere on a page about
 renderer XYX. However we definitely should not document this as a valid tag
 on the amenity page.


I have had some e-mails about this with Richard Mann too.

Network=mtb makes not much sense in my eye (and was never discussed, 
approved, proposed...) as we can't differentiate then anymore between 
local and regional mtb routes.
The question therefore is, what values do we want to use for network?

Should we use ncn/rcn/lcn (because this is already quite commonly used 
for route=mtb and the differentitation to cycle routes can be done 
because we use route=mtb and not route=bicycle) or maybe nmn/rmn/lmn 
(this would go in accoradance with ncn Cycle Network and nwn Walking 
Network), or maybe go without accronyms and use network=regional_mtb, 
network=local_mtb .

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
 
 Now we have :
 
 tag   value   uses
 earthquake:damage collapsed_building  1,499
 fixme:buildingcollapsed   1,492
 building  collapsed   787
 earthquake_damage collapsed   2
 
 Time for harmonization ?
 
 earthquake_damage should obviously be earthquake:damage.

Corrected two occurences. Edit at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3628429

 fixme:building=collapsed looks like it should be
 earthquake:damage=collapsed_building - but maybe there is a reason for
 fixme that I'm not aware of.

As explained earlier, there is a reason for that, so I did not touch
anything with fixme:

 earthquake:damage=collapsed_building is the ITHACA way. Should we
 convert all the building=collapsed to it ? I would say yes, because
 collapsed is not a type of building but a building attribute - the
 ITHACA way is semantically superior.

Where a building=collapsed was present, I want to set
earthquake:damage=collapsed_building instead. This would touch about
815 objects.

Everywhere earthquake:damage=collapsed_building was present, I want to
add building=yes which seems logical and helps proper rendering. This
would touch 2290 objects.

All that seems logical to me, and I embarked upon doing it. I managed to
make clean selections and edit them - but then on uploading my changeset
would conflict with other data.

I tried to get http://labs.geofabrik.de/haiti/latest.osm.bz2 and then as
fast as I could (that is - not so fast on my four years old laptop) to
replace building=collapsed with earthquake:damage=collapsed_building
and then add building=yes everywhere
earthquake:damage=collapsed_building was set... And everytime a
conflict would prevent upload.

I tried again five times... I give up for now - I'm going to bed - feel
free to take it from there.

Am I doing something wrong ? Is JOSM the right tool for editing tags on
3k objects or is there another way I sould use ?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Extended GeoEye imagery now available for use on OSM

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 21:35, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote:
 We just got permission from GeoEye to use some new imagery which
 covers a lot more area than what we currently have, this shows the
 extent:

    http://v.nix.is/~avar/geoeye-extent.png

 The imagery is 23 TIFF files which I'm mirroring here:

    http://cassini.toolserver.org/haitiearthquake-geoeye-tiffs/

 The Google server is very slow so please don't hammer it more. I'll
 see about setting up a torrent or something when we've got it all.

 These are orthorectified 8-bit compresed GeoTiffs, who can help with
 turning these into something usable for OSM editors? I have no idea
 how the TIFF - WMS|Tiles process goes.

Google just split up all their tar files (their webserver couldn't
handle 2GB files). They're trickling into Cassini at the same URL.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Extended GeoEye imagery now available for use on OSM

2010-01-15 Thread Schuyler Erle

* On 15-Jan-2010 at  6:32PM EST, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason said:
 
 I just meant to mirror them to something faster than the  Google
 server (the OSM cluster should get ~30MB/s from cassini).
 
 It would be better if someone else could set up the actual tile/wms serving.

I'm working on that now, hope to have something up by morning!

SDE

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Re: [OSM-talk] TAG-Suggestion: highway:trailer_shipment

2010-01-15 Thread Ulf Lamping

Am 15.01.2010 23:02, schrieb Carsten Moeller:
 yes, osm relations are one possible solution. But from the view of a
 pgRouter it is a very stony way to collect that data back into a routing
 table. You are right, that there should be a tag like terminal or
 ramp or even simpler link.

Seems there's at least no difference in principle that this would be 
useful :-)

We already have the established amenity=ferry_terminal and an 
amenity=motorail_terminal wouldn't be very different in functionality - 
no need to develop a complete new name IMHO.

As you certainly want to have a different rendering for these two, it 
might not be a good idea to have just a single tag like amenity=terminal 
for this.

   From the perspective of a street map a pickapack railway or ferry has
 the same quality as e.g. highway=pedestrian.

Sorry, i don't get your point here. On highway=pedestrian I'm not 
allowed to drive (except maybe for un-/loading at specific times) - 
which is completely different IMHO.

 So I'd prefer sth. like highway=railway, highway=ferry,
 highway=railway_link and highway=ferry_link.
 This info is enough for pgRouting to create a topology.
 Additional properties can be assigned to amenity or railway of course.

For a ferry (if all is tagged well), this can already be achieved. 
You'll travel:

highway=service
amenity=ferry_terminal (if it allows cargo=vehicle)
ferry route (as tagged and displayed already on the maps)
amenity=ferry_terminal (again with cargo=vehicle)
highway=service

The same principle applies for a railway as well:

highway=service
amenity=motorail_terminal
motorail route (see below)
amenity=motorail_terminal
highway=service

The exception for the railway - compared with ferries - is, that the 
railway grid will physically connect a lot of places. There's 
certainly a physical railway connection from the sylt shuttle mainland 
station to italy. But the railway company just won't offer you that 
service :-)

Now you can invent a special tag (as you intended) for the short 
distance or point to point connections, like sylt shuttle, channel 
tunnel and alike applies for several short distance tunnel services in 
the alps.

Then you'll need *another* mechanism for the long distance travel from 
hamburg to vienna (Deutsche Bahn is offering about roughly 20 such 
dedicated routes - not more) with just exactly the same problem: Travel 
with your car pickapack on a train from A to B. That's why I was 
thinking about relations.


However, as you may want to display on a map only short distance but not 
long distance pickapack, it even makes sense IMO to have two different 
ways to tag this. One to tag point to point connections as you'd 
suggested and one for long distance connection grid connections using 
relations.


May I suggest to just keep existing stuff for ferries and use 
amenity=motorail_terminal and highway=motorail (which seems to be the 
right translation for german Autoverladung/Autoreisezug) for the short 
distance ways?

Regards, ULFL

P.S: Next time, using the tagging mailing list seems more natural for 
these or similar discussions ;-)

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ

2010-01-15 Thread Micha Ruh

2010/1/16 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org

 Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
 I tried to
 replace building=collapsed with earthquake:damage=collapsed_building


Please don't, it's useless, if not harmful.

Why do you want to replace a simple, understandable, well established,
broadly supported tag with something THAT complicated?
It's ok, that another tag with the same meaning exists due to imports, but
please DO NOT change well known and used tags with another one coming from
an import.

Especially not when the new tag is 35 chars long. Try editing that in
potlatch.


Thank you.

Regards, Micha
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[OSM-talk] Florist apologises: A florist says changing competitors' details on Google Maps 'became an addiction'.

2010-01-15 Thread Robin Paulson

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3234636/Florist-apologises-to-online-victims

a case of the streisand effect? free publicity for google map maker? a
salient warning vandals will get caught?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Florist apologises: A florist says changing competitors' details on Google Maps 'became an addiction'.

2010/1/16 Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com:
 http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3234636/Florist-apologises-to-online-victims

 a case of the streisand effect? free publicity for google map maker? a
 salient warning vandals will get caught?

Wonder if the police would bother pursuing the matter if people were
caught for the same offence on OSM?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Extended GeoEye imagery now available for use on OSM

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 03:13, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 21:35, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 We just got permission from GeoEye to use some new imagery which
 covers a lot more area than what we currently have, this shows the
 extent:

    http://v.nix.is/~avar/geoeye-extent.png

 The imagery is 23 TIFF files which I'm mirroring here:

    http://cassini.toolserver.org/haitiearthquake-geoeye-tiffs/

 The Google server is very slow so please don't hammer it more. I'll
 see about setting up a torrent or something when we've got it all.

 These are orthorectified 8-bit compresed GeoTiffs, who can help with
 turning these into something usable for OSM editors? I have no idea
 how the TIFF - WMS|Tiles process goes.

 Google just split up all their tar files (their webserver couldn't
 handle 2GB files). They're trickling into Cassini at the same URL.

There's also a .torrent:
http://cassini.toolserver.org/haitiearthquake-geoeye-tiffs/geoeye_00156730.torrent

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe website

2010-01-15 Thread Lambert Carsten

Ook van mij heel veel complimenten. Fantastisch werk, overzichtelijk en 
begrijpelijk. Echt een site om iedereen met een gerust hart naar te 
verwijzen. 

Een technisch probleem dat mij opviel bij openstreetmap.nl die niet speelt bij 
openstreetmaps.nl is dat bij het inzoomen (Ctrl+wiel) van de pagina (dus niet 
op de kaart zélf in map mode) het venster gedeeltelijk buiten beeld valt 
onderaan. De scroll balk rechts komt wel tevoorschijn maar laat mij niet 
voldoende naar beneden scrollen. Probleem doet zich voor in Firefox en Opera 
op een Linux systeem. 

Dit bericht heb ik ook met screenshots verstuurd maar de 'moderator' moet die 
goedkeuren vanwege de grootte. Als die wordt geweigerd en er is toch behoefte 
aan ter verduidelijking dan stuur ik ze wel verschaald.

m.vr.gr.

Lambert

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe website

2010-01-15 Thread Stefan de Konink

Uiteraard wordt alle hulp om OpenLayers, Internet Explorer en UX bugs  
te fixen gewaardeerd. Mensen die er goed in zijn stuur vooral patches  
of commit verbeteringen.

Het is onze site, dus laten we er ook met z'n allen wat aan doen.

Stefan

Op 15 jan 2010 om 10:47 heeft Lambert Carsten lhc@solcon.nl het  
volgende geschreven:\

 Ook van mij heel veel complimenten. Fantastisch werk, overzichtelijk  
 en
 begrijpelijk. Echt een site om iedereen met een gerust hart naar te
 verwijzen.

 Een technisch probleem dat mij opviel bij openstreetmap.nl die niet  
 speelt bij
 openstreetmaps.nl is dat bij het inzoomen (Ctrl+wiel) van de pagina  
 (dus niet
 op de kaart zélf in map mode) het venster gedeeltelijk buiten beeld  
 valt
 onderaan. De scroll balk rechts komt wel tevoorschijn maar laat mij  
 niet
 voldoende naar beneden scrollen. Probleem doet zich voor in Firefox  
 en Opera
 op een Linux systeem.

 Dit bericht heb ik ook met screenshots verstuurd maar de 'moderator'  
 moet die
 goedkeuren vanwege de grootte. Als die wordt geweigerd en er is toch  
 behoefte
 aan ter verduidelijking dan stuur ik ze wel verschaald.

 m.vr.gr.

 Lambert

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Re: [talk-au] Alcohol Free / Prohibited Zones

2010/1/15  cam_...@fastmail.fm:
 Alcohol prohibited: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/384683
 it doesn't highlight St Leonard's Park.  - Perhaps this is a bug I
 should file? (and where would I file it to?)

I don't think child relations do anything/much... this isn't so much a
bug as a feature enhancement.

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Re: [talk-au] access=destination

2010-01-15 Thread Roy Wallace

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can you legally ride a bike
 through a Local Traffic Only area?

The closest I could find, for Queensland is from:
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR09.pdf

97 (1) Road access signs: A driver must not drive on a length of road
to which a road access sign applies if information on or with the sign
indicates that the driver or the driver's vehicle is not permitted
beyond the sign.

However, there's no explicit mention or definition of Local Traffic
Only signs. Interestingly, the above clause applies to A driver.
This is defined as:

16 Who is a driver: (1) A driver is the person who is driving a
vehicle (except a motorbike, bicycle, animal or animal-drawn vehicle).
(2) However, a driver does not include a person pushing a motorised
wheelchair.

So this would seem to infer that motorbike riders don't have to obey
Local Traffic Only signs. Strange (and/or incorrect).

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Re: [talk-au] access=destination

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Roy Wallace wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote:
  Can you legally ride a bike
  through a Local Traffic Only area?
 
 The closest I could find, for Queensland is from:
 http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR09.pdf
 

I 'read' the SA road rules and a search did not find the phrase local 
traffic

so perhaps the signs are actually meaningless in law
they appear in council minutes so perhaps its a local council job

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Re: [talk-au] access=destination

2010/1/15 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
 So this would seem to infer that motorbike riders don't have to obey
 Local Traffic Only signs. Strange (and/or incorrect).

Motorbike riders are exempt from a number of things cars aren't,
they're allowed to be in transit lanes without any other passengers,
they're allowed in bus lanes, they can ignore most if not all
directions on how to park (eg 60 degrees, 90 degrees, no reverse
parking) etc, at least in Sydney/NSW, can't comment on other state
laws.

So doesn't entirely surprise me.

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Re: [talk-au] OSM in Haiti

2010-01-15 Thread Alex (Maxious) Sadleir

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:56 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/1/14 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#2010_Earthquake_Response
 http://blog.ushahidi.com/index.php/2010/01/13/haiti-earthquake/

 I'm not trying to detract from how badly off people are in Haiti...
 but nothing like this occurred when Australia had those really bad
 fires recently.

There's an international charter On Cooperation To Achieve The
Coordinated Use Of Space Facilities In The Event Of Natural Or
Technological Disasters. It did get activated for the Australian
bushfires but the USGS were the only ones to act on it and there's no
published imagery:
http://www.disasterscharter.org/web/charter/activation_details?p_r_p_1415474252_assetId=ACT-244

The Haiti response is a lot more open and thus OSM is able to gain the
required access to help:
http://www.disasterscharter.org/web/charter/activation_details?p_r_p_1415474252_assetId=ACT-287

If we could have helped with mapping, we would have. The CFA already
have several GIS projects/officers to track and manage fire
incidences: http://bit.ly/5SDJEg

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Re: [talk-au] OSM in Haiti

2010-01-15 Thread David Murn

On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 06:56 +1000, John Smith wrote:
 2010/1/14 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com:
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#2010_Earthquake_Response
  http://blog.ushahidi.com/index.php/2010/01/13/haiti-earthquake/
 
 I'm not trying to detract from how badly off people are in Haiti...
 but nothing like this occurred when Australia had those really bad
 fires recently.

Last time I checked, a bushfire doesnt change the geographical location
of *everything*, like a 7.0 earthquake does.  Im sure there were OSM
updates in Australia after the fires of damaged infrastructure, but we
didnt have roads and buildings changing their geographical coordinates
with the ground shifting.

David


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Re: [talk-au] OSM in Haiti

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010, David Murn wrote:
 On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 06:56 +1000, John Smith wrote:
  2010/1/14 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com:
   http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#2010_Earthquake_Re
  sponse http://blog.ushahidi.com/index.php/2010/01/13/haiti-earthquake/
 
  I'm not trying to detract from how badly off people are in Haiti...
  but nothing like this occurred when Australia had those really bad
  fires recently.
 
 Last time I checked, a bushfire doesnt change the geographical location
 of *everything*, like a 7.0 earthquake does.  Im sure there were OSM
 updates in Australia after the fires of damaged infrastructure, but we
 didnt have roads and buildings changing their geographical coordinates
 with the ground shifting.
 
 David
 
Most of the mapping effort appears to be marking destroyed buildings. The 
original mapping isn't apparently good enough to be sure if things have 
shifted a couple of metres.


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Re: [talk-au] OSM in Haiti

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010, Liz wrote:
 On Sat, 16 Jan 2010, David Murn wrote:
  On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 06:56 +1000, John Smith wrote:
   2010/1/14 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#2010_Earthquake_
   Re sponse
http://blog.ushahidi.com/index.php/2010/01/13/haiti-earthquake/
  
   I'm not trying to detract from how badly off people are in Haiti...
   but nothing like this occurred when Australia had those really bad
   fires recently.
 
  Last time I checked, a bushfire doesnt change the geographical location
  of *everything*, like a 7.0 earthquake does.  Im sure there were OSM
  updates in Australia after the fires of damaged infrastructure, but we
  didnt have roads and buildings changing their geographical coordinates
  with the ground shifting.
 
  David
 
 Most of the mapping effort appears to be marking destroyed buildings. The
 original mapping isn't apparently good enough to be sure if things have
 shifted a couple of metres.
 
 
correction
http://www.opengeodata.org/2010/01/14/haiti-openstreetmap-response/
so lots of mapping gone into putting streets on the map
but also lots of marking destroyed buildings


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Re: [talk-au] access=destination

2010-01-15 Thread Roy Wallace

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:56 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:

 Motorbike riders are exempt from a number of things cars aren't,
...
 So doesn't entirely surprise me.

Interesting. So this potentially means all access=destination tags
should be changed to motor_vehicle=destination + motorcycle=yes. Would
be better to first get confirmation from government on the sign's
meaning though...

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Re: [talk-au] OSM in Haiti

2010/1/16 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com:
 Technological Disasters. It did get activated for the Australian
 bushfires but the USGS were the only ones to act on it and there's no
 published imagery:
 http://www.disasterscharter.org/web/charter/activation_details?p_r_p_1415474252_assetId=ACT-244

If I were aware of this, I would have sent off some emails to try and
asked companies to help too, because even though Australia is mostly
mapped commercially, maps go out of date and most if not all
commercial maps have lots of mistakes. In the case of a bush fire we'd
need imagery just before the event since smoke would be blanketing any
coverage of the ground.

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Re: [talk-au] OSM in Haiti

2010/1/16 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au:
 Last time I checked, a bushfire doesnt change the geographical location
 of *everything*, like a 7.0 earthquake does.  Im sure there were OSM
 updates in Australia after the fires of damaged infrastructure, but we

Damaged infrasturcture is only one issue, having accurate up to date
maps is useful for planning.

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[talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community

2010-01-15 Thread morb . gis

Hi everyone,

As I work to bring CommonMap to fruition I'm heartened that I'm not the only one
that wants to see it happen.

If you're handy to Brisbane tonight then come join the CommonMap association as
part of the Samford Mapping Party
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Samford_Mapping_Party_January_2010)
and vote to see it incorporated
(http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association/Incorporation/Agenda).

With reference to the blog post below, I'm just putting it out there that
CommonMap is designed to be a place where that conflation happens.  With your
help perhaps we can be ready for the next time the world needs it.


Thanks,
Brendan


http://geosquan.blogspot.com/2010/01/haitian-earthquake-emphasizes-danger-of.html:


But OSM and MapMaker aren't talking and I think it is a big problem - if you
want to help rescue efforts in Haiti where do you go to digitize? OSM?
MapMaker?

As it stands right now, even though the MapMaker data is free for non-profit
use, projects like OSM can't use the data because there are commercial uses for
OSM and the data belongs to Google, not OSM.

The data is similar, but different, and needs to be conflated. Where that
conflation happens, how it happens, I don't know - but I do know that we need
to do something to fix this split before it gets people hurt.



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Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community

2010/1/16  morb@beagle.com.au:
 Hi everyone,

 As I work to bring CommonMap to fruition I'm heartened that I'm not the only 
 one
 that wants to see it happen.

 If you're handy to Brisbane tonight then come join the CommonMap association 
 as
 part of the Samford Mapping Party
 (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Samford_Mapping_Party_January_2010)
 and vote to see it incorporated
 (http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association/Incorporation/Agenda).

I would have liked to attend, because I would have liked to discuss
this further with you in person.

 As it stands right now, even though the MapMaker data is free for non-profit
 use, projects like OSM can't use the data because there are commercial uses 
 for
 OSM and the data belongs to Google, not OSM.

This seems like a spurious argument, ok your suggestion will allow
both projects to profit from your data, but any additions can't be
shared back with your suggested project, nor will Google share any of
it's data back, unless it's in Google's own best interest, any data
Google releases won't allow commercial use, so you still wouldn't be
able to incorporate it.

So Google gets free labour, and you get nothing in return... sounds
win-loose to me.

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Re: [talk-au] access=destination

2010-01-15 Thread Roy Wallace

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:41 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/1/16 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
 Interesting. So this potentially means all access=destination tags
 should be changed to motor_vehicle=destination + motorcycle=yes. Would
 be better to first get confirmation from government on the sign's
 meaning though...

 Does this mean we should tag bus lanes in NSW as motorcycle=yes?

 Personally I don't think we should do either, we're tagging what's on
 the ground, not what's on the legal books. That doesn't mean we can't
 make a note about this on the wiki.

The main issue that access=destination (i.e. applying to all traffic
modes) is wrong - it isn't on the ground, and (quite probably...)
isn't even in the legal books.

How should Local Traffic Only signs be encoded in the database,
given that we want to tag the meaning of the sign, rather than the
sign itself? access=local_traffic_only? I'd prefer
[something]=destination. Or are you saying we should ignore these
signs altogether?

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Re: [talk-au] access=destination

2010/1/16 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
 The main issue that access=destination (i.e. applying to all traffic
 modes) is wrong - it isn't on the ground, and (quite probably...)
 isn't even in the legal books.

I haven't seen any signs that distinguish between traffic, they just
state Local Traffic Only anything else would have to be defined in
law, so we are mapping what's on the ground, what isn't on the ground
is what the sign means legally.

 [something]=destination. Or are you saying we should ignore these
 signs altogether?

We're tagging what the sign states, what it means will vary between
legal jurisdictions...

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Re: [talk-au] access=destination