[Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Greetings Vortex-L, http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA
[Vo]:Change in the air
Since the publication of the Rossi independent third party report on the ecat, I have noticed a distinct change in the attacks on Rossi and in more to the point, LENR in general. There has been a continual flood of ideas and papers regarding various aspects of LENR (and its various iterations) operation. I think that there is a general mood of acceptance that even though no one knows for sure the LENR mechanism, the mechanism exists. I see a rapidly increasing interest and very exciting times ahead. The floodgates have developed a crack, and the waters are rising. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8518 - Release Date: 11/05/14
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Looks like there are three related patents filed last year in May. I wonder when we'll seem them pop up. Also, why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. *Application Number**Filing Date**Patent Number*61818553May 2, 201361819058May 3, 201361821914May 10, 2013 On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:22 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings Vortex-L, http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Maybe Industrial Heat is using the USPTO's fast track service for this one: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/init_events/Track_One.jsp On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Looks like there are three related patents filed last year in May. I wonder when we'll seem them pop up. Also, why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. *Application Number**Filing Date**Patent Number*61818553May 2, 2013 61819058May 3, 201361821914May 10, 2013 On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:22 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings Vortex-L, http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA -- Frank Acland Publisher, E-Cat World http://www.e-catworld.com
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Blaze, interesting this was filed in April and Rossi was already describing the shadows cast by the coils far ahead of the controversy after the released report..and to give Rossi credit his explanation does have the ring of truth. The reacting material was much hotter than the heating coils making them by comparison into lamp shades/ insulators trapping some of the light and heat trying to escape the reaction. This seems like the simplest and therefore most likely explanation for the shadows. Fran From: Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 8:37 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today Looks like there are three related patents filed last year in May. I wonder when we'll seem them pop up. Also, why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. Application Number Filing Date Patent Number 61818553 May 2, 2013 61819058 May 3, 2013 61821914 May 10, 2013 On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:22 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.commailto:chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings Vortex-L, http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA
RE: [Vo]:Change in the air
Robert, yes I agree, especially some of the recent citations by Axil from Physic.org - even string theory is getting involved in this last push toward acceptance. Fran -Original Message- From: Robert Dorr [mailto:rod...@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 7:30 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Change in the air Since the publication of the Rossi independent third party report on the ecat, I have noticed a distinct change in the attacks on Rossi and in more to the point, LENR in general. There has been a continual flood of ideas and papers regarding various aspects of LENR (and its various iterations) operation. I think that there is a general mood of acceptance that even though no one knows for sure the LENR mechanism, the mechanism exists. I see a rapidly increasing interest and very exciting times ahead. The floodgates have developed a crack, and the waters are rising. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8518 - Release Date: 11/05/14
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Tomorrow, and next week's friday. 2014-11-06 11:37 GMT-02:00 Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com: Looks like there are three related patents filed last year in May. I wonder when we'll seem them pop up. Also, why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. *Application Number**Filing Date**Patent Number*61818553May 2, 2013 61819058May 3, 201361821914May 10, 2013 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Can the wave function of an electron be divided and trapped?
From: John Berry Also, if you seek a transient effect, does heat exist in a moment? Heat is a chaotic form of random microscopic changes in kinetic energy, if so there should be windows where there is no change in momentum which could be argued to be as localized moments of zero heat? John, That is an interesting thought from several perspectives. We could call it a “localized freeze” or simply “subradiance,” which is well-known under that name. Even though we do not normally think of semi-coherency as being related to “lack of” a parameter, there is no reason we cannot phrase it that way. First – whenever there is superradiance in a larger system, there is corresponding subradiance – for a net energy balance of zero, if no outside energy enters the system. Secondly, this goes back to the Fermi-Pasta-Ulam problem, first written up at Los Alamos 1955, which seeks to explain how seemingly chaotic systems often express regularly ordered periods (such as hot and cold bifurcations). In effect subradiance powers superradiance. Finally, a “localized moment of zero heat” is more likely in the situation where there is a bifurcation between superradiance and subradiance at extremely small dimensions, such as a nanometer sized cavity… and especially where there are gaps in the emission spectra due to Casimir dynamics. Jones Beene wrote: An interesting possibility about FQHE – in the context of LENR, is that there could be a transient version inside a Casimir cavity. The phenomenon of the fractional quantum Hall effect (FQHE) occurs when electrons are contained in two dimensions, cooled to near absolute zero temperature, and exposed to a strong magnetic field. On the surface, it would seem that this cannot happen in LENR as a static phenomenon, as the temperature is way too high… but electrons confined inside a dielectric Casimir cavity, which is inside a metal matrix - even at 500C could experience a transient version of FQHE in a situation where SPP are supplying the strong magnetic field, and virtual photon exclusion by the cavity walls provides the cooling effect, and the inside of a Casimir cavity can be modeled as 2-D. The first and last are found in prior scientific studies, but the cooling effect is not seen in the literature, AFAIK. Not sure what direction you are going with this – but in 2010 – we were talking about fractional electron charge (AKA: FQHE) as being the driving force behind one form of LENR – at least the non-nuclear version of LENR and possibly the Mills’ version - which happens at the nanoscale or in Casimir cavities. Several times since then, the fractional Hall effect has been tied to thermal anomalies. https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg40603.html “I won't go into all of the lore of monatomic hydrogen, going back to Langmuir, or the Mills' version of fractional hydrogen called the hydrino - except to say that there is another possibility that encompasses both of these phenomena - and it can explain other hot hydrogen (HH) phenomena or anomalies, so long as we limit it to two dimensions. This possibility would also suggest that a Casimir cavity is or acts 'as if' it were a two dimensional space. There are a number of papers on this second prerequisite, many of them by Calloni, but I will save that for another time. The argument is sound. According to Laughlin, electrons can form an exotic state with fractional charge in two dimensions. Unlike the putative hydrino, this seemingly odder beast is accepted by the mainstream. It has even won a Nobel. Consequently, taking this bit of insight to the next level - given that all electrons are happy to form pairs, it is suggested that HH is itself related to FQHE via paired electrons.”
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Frank, I wonder if that means they're confident they have something and want to get patent rights sewn up ASAP. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 6:01 AM, Frank Acland ecatwo...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe Industrial Heat is using the USPTO's fast track service for this one: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/init_events/Track_One.jsp On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Looks like there are three related patents filed last year in May. I wonder when we'll seem them pop up. Also, why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. *Application Number**Filing Date**Patent Number*61818553May 2, 2013 61819058May 3, 201361821914May 10, 2013 On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:22 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings Vortex-L, http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA -- Frank Acland Publisher, E-Cat World http://www.e-catworld.com
RE: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
The USPTO has an 18 month embargo on publication, which is optional and not required - and they chose not to avail themselves of the delayed publication. That is a strategy choice. You can find this stature online: (35 U.S.C. 122 Confidential status of applications) The implication is that they want to get the most basic version of the device protected and in front of the public immediately if possible. These is a very limited scope patent – and could get through, but it may not protect very much. There is no mention of isotopes or a particular catalyst. This means that they cannot protect the use of any catalyst, other than as a trade secret, but catch-22 – if the devices is not described well enough so that a practitioner “skilled in the art” can make and use it, they are in trouble on the basic claim. This is the so-called “enablement requirement” of 35 U.S.C. 112. The purpose of the requirement that the specification describe the invention in such terms that one skilled in the art can make and use the claimed invention is to ensure that the invention is communicated to the interested public in a meaningful way. Thus if MFMP can replicate the device for any gain, then Rossi is in a good position. From: Frank Acland Maybe Industrial Heat is using the USPTO's fast track service for this one: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/init_events/Track_One.jsp … why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. Application Number Filing Date Patent Number 61818553May 2, 2013 61819058May 3, 2013 61821914May 10, 2013 Ron Kita wrote: Greetings Vortex-L, http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA -- Frank Acland Publisher, E-Cat World http://www.e-catworld.com
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Jones, that's mostly true. It depends on what they're specifically claiming though. with patents the devil is in the details. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The USPTO has an 18 month embargo on publication, which is* optional* and not required - and they chose not to avail themselves of the delayed publication. That is a strategy choice. You can find this stature online: (35 U.S.C. 122 Confidential status of applications) The implication is that they want to get the most basic version of the device protected and in front of the public immediately if possible. These is a very limited scope patent – and could get through, but it may not protect very much. There is no mention of isotopes or a particular catalyst. This means that they cannot protect the use of any catalyst, other than as a trade secret, but catch-22 – if the devices is not described well enough so that a practitioner “skilled in the art” can make and use it, they are in trouble on the basic claim. This is the so-called “enablement requirement ” of 35 U.S.C. 112. The purpose of the requirement that the specification describe the invention in such terms that one skilled in the art can make and use the claimed invention is to ensure that the invention is communicated to the interested public in a meaningful way. Thus if MFMP can replicate the device for any gain, then Rossi is in a good position. *From:* Frank Acland Maybe Industrial Heat is using the USPTO's fast track service for this one: *http://www.uspto.gov/patents/init_events/Track_One.jsp* http://www.uspto.gov/patents/init_events/Track_One.jsp … why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. * Application Number* * Filing Date** Patent Number* 61818553May 2, 2013 61819058May 3, 2013 61821914May 10, 2013 Ron Kita wrote: Greetings Vortex-L, *http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711* http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA -- Frank Acland Publisher, *E-Cat World* http://www.e-catworld.com
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
I think the 18 months, which are optional pretty much anywhere in the world, has ran out for the 1st application. So, the others will be published in due time. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
For example, look at the first indie claim: 1. A reactor device comprising: a sealed vessel defining an interior; a fuel material within the interior of the vessel; and a heating element proximal the vessel, wherein the fuel material comprises a solid including nickel and hydrogen, and further wherein the interior of the sealed vessel is not preloaded with a pressurized gas when in an initial state before activation of the heating element. I am sure a POSITA could replicate that. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:03 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Jones, that's mostly true. It depends on what they're specifically claiming though. with patents the devil is in the details. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The USPTO has an 18 month embargo on publication, which is* optional* and not required - and they chose not to avail themselves of the delayed publication. That is a strategy choice. You can find this stature online: (35 U.S.C. 122 Confidential status of applications) The implication is that they want to get the most basic version of the device protected and in front of the public immediately if possible. These is a very limited scope patent – and could get through, but it may not protect very much. There is no mention of isotopes or a particular catalyst. This means that they cannot protect the use of any catalyst, other than as a trade secret, but catch-22 – if the devices is not described well enough so that a practitioner “skilled in the art” can make and use it, they are in trouble on the basic claim. This is the so-called “enablement requirement” of 35 U.S.C. 112. The purpose of the requirement that the specification describe the invention in such terms that one skilled in the art can make and use the claimed invention is to ensure that the invention is communicated to the interested public in a meaningful way. Thus if MFMP can replicate the device for any gain, then Rossi is in a good position. *From:* Frank Acland Maybe Industrial Heat is using the USPTO's fast track service for this one: *http://www.uspto.gov/patents/init_events/Track_One.jsp* http://www.uspto.gov/patents/init_events/Track_One.jsp … why did this patent show up already? It was only filed in april of this year. * Application Number* * Filing Date** Patent Number* 61818553May 2, 2013 61819058May 3, 2013 61821914May 10, 2013 Ron Kita wrote: Greetings Vortex-L, *http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711* http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=20140326711.PGNR.OS=DN%2F20140326711RS=DN%2F20140326711 Ad Astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA -- Frank Acland Publisher, *E-Cat World* http://www.e-catworld.com
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: . . . interior of the sealed vessel is not preloaded with a pressurized gas when in an initial state before activation of the heating element. I am sure a POSITA could replicate that. PHOSITA (person having ordinary skill in the art) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
yeah, i'm a huge source of typos On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:20 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: . . . interior of the sealed vessel is not preloaded with a pressurized gas when in an initial state before activation of the heating element. I am sure a POSITA could replicate that. PHOSITA (person having ordinary skill in the art) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Quick read : most of it describes the physical structure and results of the first (2013) independent test. It says nothing about what the reaction is, other than it contains nickel and produces hydrogen. Banding/shadows : for the melted/banding run it gives the dimensions and positions of the bands and the heater elements. The dark parts are where the wires are. It ascribes these to shadow, though I still think those wires (based on the Penon pictures) were too thin to produce shadows from the internal, diffuse source. I think that the result from the different energy transfer of ceramic and the gaps in the ceramic (where the energy would have to be transferred by radiation or conduction through a gas). I deduce that the conduction through the ceramic won. It still means that the energy was coming from inside, and not from the heater wires. 600 is new - describing an assemblage of 18 reactors [0169] A system 600 for producing heat, according to at least one embodiment, is illustrated in FIG. 17. According to at least one embodiment, the system includes a high number of individual reactor devices. The reactor device 400 described above represents an exemplary choice for use in the system 600, although other reactor devices including reactor device 200 and others are within the scope of these description of the system 600. In a particular example of the system 600, a total number of 18 reactor devices are used. Each of the reactors may absorb a power of about 1.1 kW. ... This is used to generate STEAM --- the COP is reported as *** 11.07 ***
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Note that the inventor is Rossi, working for IH ... but the ASSIGNEE is still Leonardo Corporation, Miami. So apparently IH didn't get ALL the IP rights
RE: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
You say potato, I say potato… But the main implications which stands out on first read – if we try to interpret what is being claimed in this disclosure relative to what we already know… 1)Non-nuclear 2)Requires substantial electrical input and elevate temperature 3)Requires ceramic containment 4)If hydrogen is the active “agent” for gain, in the sense of Ni-H - then the hydrogen must be embedded in the nickel as a strongly bound hydride instead of as a more weakly bound absorbate , in such a way that hydrogen is not released at extreme temperature (as it usually is). 5)Otherwise, and this is more likely: the ceramic matrix would retain the diffuse hydrogen after thermal release from the nickel; and if it is porous, as sintered ceramic usually is (6-8% porosity is common), then this points to a Casimir modality… If I were the folks at Jovion, I would be feeling pretty good about this turn of events, having a granted patent- United States 7,379,286Quantum vacuum energy extraction Inventors: Haisch, Bernard (Redwood City, CA); Moddel, Garret (Boulder, CO) Assignee: Jovion Corporation (Menlo Park, CA) Abstract A system is disclosed for converting energy from the electromagnetic quantum vacuum available at any point in the universe to usable energy in the form of heat, electricity, mechanical energy or other forms of power. By suppressing electromagnetic quantum vacuum energy at appropriate frequencies a change may be effected in the electron energy levels which will result in the emission or release of energy. Mode suppression of electromagnetic quantum vacuum radiation is known to take place in Casimir cavities. A Casimir cavity refers to any region in which electromagnetic modes are suppressed or restricted. When atoms enter into suitable micro Casimir cavities a decrease in the orbital energies of electrons in atoms will thus occur. Such energy will be captured in the claimed devices. Upon emergence form such micro Casimir cavities the atoms will be re-energized by the ambient electromagnetic quantum vacuum. In this way energy is extracted locally and replenished globally from and by the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. This process may be repeated an unlimited number of times. This process is also consistent with the conservation of energy in that all usable energy does come at the expense of the energy content of the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. Similar effects may be produced by acting upon molecular bonds. Devices are described in which gas is recycled through a multiplicity of Casimir cavities. The disclosed devices are scalable in size and energy output for applications ranging from replacements for small batteries to power plant sized generators of electricity.
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Jones you need to look at the claims. The abstract / background / etc are just context. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: You say potato, I say potato… But the main implications which stands out on first read – if we try to interpret what is being claimed in this disclosure relative to what we already know… 1)Non-nuclear 2)Requires substantial electrical input and elevate temperature 3)Requires ceramic containment 4)If hydrogen is the active “agent” for gain, in the sense of Ni-H - then the hydrogen must be embedded in the nickel as a strongly bound hydride instead of as a more weakly bound absorbate , in such a way that hydrogen is not released at extreme temperature (as it usually is). 5)Otherwise, and this is more likely: the ceramic matrix would retain the diffuse hydrogen after thermal release from the nickel; and if it is porous, as sintered ceramic usually is (6-8% porosity is common), then this points to a Casimir modality… If I were the folks at Jovion, I would be feeling pretty good about this turn of events, having a granted patent- United States 7,379,286*Quantum vacuum energy extraction* Inventors: Haisch, Bernard (Redwood City, CA); Moddel, Garret (Boulder, CO) Assignee: Jovion Corporation (Menlo Park, CA) Abstract A system is disclosed for converting energy from the electromagnetic quantum vacuum available at any point in the universe to usable energy in the form of heat, electricity, mechanical energy or other forms of power. By suppressing electromagnetic quantum vacuum energy at appropriate frequencies a change may be effected in the electron energy levels which will result in the emission or release of energy. Mode suppression of electromagnetic quantum vacuum radiation is known to take place in Casimir cavities. A Casimir cavity refers to any region in which electromagnetic modes are suppressed or restricted. When atoms enter into suitable micro Casimir cavities a decrease in the orbital energies of electrons in atoms will thus occur. Such energy will be captured in the claimed devices. Upon emergence form such micro Casimir cavities the atoms will be re-energized by the ambient electromagnetic quantum vacuum. In this way energy is extracted locally and replenished globally from and by the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. This process may be repeated an unlimited number of times. This process is also consistent with the conservation of energy in that all usable energy does come at the expense of the energy content of the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. Similar effects may be produced by acting upon molecular bonds. Devices are described in which gas is recycled through a multiplicity of Casimir cavities. The disclosed devices are scalable in size and energy output for applications ranging from replacements for small batteries to power plant sized generators of electricity.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 10:03:38 AM They can make plenty of money from a COP=6 thermal system, even with an electric drive. Reported elsewhere, but just for the record here. The new patent describes an 18-reactor hotcat system [600], generating steam, with a reported cop of 11.07
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Notice that the system including a number of reactors working together is similar to what I was describing in a posting yesterday. Perhaps that is why they decided to publish that information today. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:42 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today Quick read : most of it describes the physical structure and results of the first (2013) independent test. It says nothing about what the reaction is, other than it contains nickel and produces hydrogen. Banding/shadows : for the melted/banding run it gives the dimensions and positions of the bands and the heater elements. The dark parts are where the wires are. It ascribes these to shadow, though I still think those wires (based on the Penon pictures) were too thin to produce shadows from the internal, diffuse source. I think that the result from the different energy transfer of ceramic and the gaps in the ceramic (where the energy would have to be transferred by radiation or conduction through a gas). I deduce that the conduction through the ceramic won. It still means that the energy was coming from inside, and not from the heater wires. 600 is new - describing an assemblage of 18 reactors [0169] A system 600 for producing heat, according to at least one embodiment, is illustrated in FIG. 17. According to at least one embodiment, the system includes a high number of individual reactor devices. The reactor device 400 described above represents an exemplary choice for use in the system 600, although other reactor devices including reactor device 200 and others are within the scope of these description of the system 600. In a particular example of the system 600, a total number of 18 reactor devices are used. Each of the reactors may absorb a power of about 1.1 kW.... This is used to generate STEAM --- the COP is reported as *** 11.07 ***
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 8:41:48 AM 600 is new - describing an assemblage of 18 reactors This is used to generate STEAM --- the COP is reported as *** 11.07 *** No mention (that I can see) of steam quality or anything to measure it. [0196] Throughout the test, the temperatures of steam measured by the two probes have always been the same or very similar to each other. Throughout the test, the pressure of the steam was always equal to atmospheric pressure
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Seeing that the publication date was set by the USPTO, I doubt it =8-) - Original Message - From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:19:15 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today Notice that the system including a number of reactors working together is similar to what I was describing in a posting yesterday. Perhaps that is why they decided to publish that information today. Dave
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Are you not amazed that a patent is issued for a device of this type and not for one that claims cold fusion as the source of energy? What are the chances that the inventors actually brought one of these systems to the patent office to prove that it works? It is very sad that our field is treated as the unwanted kid while everyone else gets a free ride. It leads me to suspect that organizations with a large amount of influence have been aware of the potential of LENR type devices for a long time and have gone to great lengths to suppress their introduction into the world. If the technology has been known and kept from being developed then those responsible for this behavior should be taken to the shed out back and given a beating. This posting sounds a lot like a conspiracy theory and I suppose that is what it is, but the actions of the patent office give it credibility. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 12:01 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today You say potato, I say potato… But the main implications which stands out on first read – if we try to interpret what is being claimed in this disclosure relative to what we already know… 1)Non-nuclear 2)Requires substantial electrical input and elevate temperature 3)Requires ceramic containment 4)If hydrogen is the active “agent” for gain, in the sense of Ni-H - then the hydrogen must be embedded in the nickel as a strongly bound hydride instead of as a more weakly bound absorbate , in such a way that hydrogen is not released at extreme temperature (as it usually is). 5)Otherwise, and this is more likely: the ceramic matrix would retain the diffuse hydrogen after thermal release from the nickel; and if it is porous, as sintered ceramic usually is (6-8% porosity is common), then this points to a Casimir modality… If I were the folks at Jovion, I would be feeling pretty good about this turn of events, having a granted patent- United States 7,379,286Quantum vacuum energy extraction Inventors: Haisch, Bernard (Redwood City, CA); Moddel, Garret (Boulder, CO) Assignee: Jovion Corporation (Menlo Park, CA) Abstract A system is disclosed for converting energy from the electromagnetic quantum vacuum available at any point in the universe to usable energy in the form of heat, electricity, mechanical energy or other forms of power. By suppressing electromagnetic quantum vacuum energy at appropriate frequencies a change may be effected in the electron energy levels which will result in the emission or release of energy. Mode suppression of electromagnetic quantum vacuum radiation is known to take place in Casimir cavities. A Casimir cavity refers to any region in which electromagnetic modes are suppressed or restricted. When atoms enter into suitable micro Casimir cavities a decrease in the orbital energies of electrons in atoms will thus occur. Such energy will be captured in the claimed devices. Upon emergence form such micro Casimir cavities the atoms will be re-energized by the ambient electromagnetic quantum vacuum. In this way energy is extracted locally and replenished globally from and by the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. This process may be repeated an unlimited number of times. This process is also consistent with the conservation of energy in that all usable energy does come at the expense of the energy content of the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. Similar effects may be produced by acting upon molecular bonds. Devices are described in which gas is recycled through a multiplicity of Casimir cavities. The disclosed devices are scalable in size and energy output for applications ranging from replacements for small batteries to power plant sized generators of electricity.
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
The quality of the steam is not that important provided a method to accurately measure the amount of heat it contains is used. A COP of 11.07 is important and represents a significant improvement above the earlier specification of greater than 6. If you are concerned about the accuracy of the measurement then that is a different problem. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 12:23 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 8:41:48 AM 600 is new - describing an assemblage of 18 reactors This is used to generate STEAM --- the COP is reported as *** 11.07 *** No mention (that I can see) of steam quality or anything to measure it. [0196] Throughout the test, the temperatures of steam measured by the two probes have always been the same or very similar to each other. Throughout the test, the pressure of the steam was always equal to atmospheric pressure
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:39:11 AM The q uality of the steam is not that important provided a method to accurately measure the amount of heat it contains is used. A COP of 11.07 is important and represents a significant improvement above the earlier specification of greater than 6. If you are concerned about the accuracy of the measurement then that is a different problem. The steam quality is critically important, as it can range between 0% (NO water vaporized) and 100% (ALL the water vaporized). This is exactly the same configuration as was used for the original 1MW acceptance test -- generator, reactors, condensers in a recycling loop. I don't THINK this includes a heat exchanger, which (if the thermocouples are connected properly) can give an irrefutable measurement. The total output is 1.440113 MW --- so reactor 600 is most likely the initial on-site customer acceptance test for the new 1MW system
RE: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Alan: I don’t think that means that at all. At best you need to see the various agreements between the parties to make such a statement. Ransom From: Alan Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:47 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today Note that the inventor is Rossi, working for IH ... but the ASSIGNEE is still Leonardo Corporation, Miami. So apparently IH didn't get ALL the IP rights
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
That is a good point Alan. It is an interesting coincidence that the thought came into my mind just before it was published. That concept will become of much importance as applications for the CATs begin to appear. I can imagine that complex systems of these types of devices will be developed which depend upon the environment into which the individual units are imersed. Actions and control methods must be adjusted to take advantage of the local configuration. My simulation of an individual HotCat type device indicated that it should be possible to design it so that it remains stable over a large range of core operating temperatures. The forth order radiation power sink is a major component of that design plan. If these individual units are then grouped into a system such as a large oven, then the reverse radiation from the heated interior of that oven change the equation significantly. I can readily obtain a latching condition where the individual CATs continue to produce significant heat power without requiring any input heating from the built in electric heaters. As long as enough heat from electric heaters remains, then the overall COP for the complete system can become very large and hopefully under control. Of course the complete overall system has to be designed as a unit so that the oven can cool down once all of the electrical heating coils are turned off. The heat escaping the furnace must be larger than all of the heat power generated by the contributing latched CATs for this to happen. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 12:24 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today Seeing that the publication date was set by the USPTO, I doubt it =8-) From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:19:15 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today Notice that the system including a number of reactors working together is similar to what I was describing in a posting yesterday. Perhaps that is why they decided to publish that information today. Dave
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Everyone in Japan has a smartphone -- everyone!
My browser couldn't translate. Synopses please? Ol' Bab On 11/4/2014 8:24 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: See: http://amenities-news.com/wp/?p=8345 --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
I was referring to the evidence supporting the claimed COP and not the usefulness of the steam itself. Accurate measurement of the heat power is the important issue at hand. Of course the guys calculating the COP must know how much heat the steam contains. That seems obvious and not needing to be stated. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 12:52 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:39:11 AM The quality of the steam is not that important provided a method to accurately measure the amount of heat it contains is used. A COP of 11.07 is important and represents a significant improvement above the earlier specification of greater than 6. If you are concerned about the accuracy of the measurement then that is a different problem. The steam quality is critically important, as it can range between 0% (NO water vaporized) and 100% (ALL the water vaporized). This is exactly the same configuration as was used for the original 1MW acceptance test -- generator, reactors, condensers in a recycling loop. I don't THINK this includes a heat exchanger, which (if the thermocouples are connected properly) can give an irrefutable measurement. The total output is 1.440113 MW --- so reactor 600 is most likely the initial on-site customer acceptance test for the new 1MW system
RE: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
From: David Roberson * Are you not amazed that a patent is issued for a device of this type and not for one that claims cold fusion as the source of energy? Not really – this is the dividing line between mainstream and fringe – and it is a narrow line. I’m assuming you are talking about the Haisch/Moddel device, which is an issued patent; but which could relate to the Rossi HT which is only an application, not granted. Rossi was wise to drop the nuclear claims. * What are the chances that the inventors actually brought one of these systems to the patent office to prove that it works? None but they built a prototype. These are extremely well credentialed inventors. Plus the Casimir force is real. There is no need for anything else to establish credibility, and IIRC when this patent was part of CoolEssence – they built a prototype which performed poorly! So the patent was granted, even though the device did not perform well. Roarty may know the details of the prototype. It is very sad that our field is treated as the unwanted kid while everyone else gets a free ride But realize – this is because there is no good proof of a nuclear reaction in the estimation of USPTO yet the Casimir force is proved. If it turns out the Rossi HT device is based on the Dynamical Casimir Effect (DCE) – which very well could be the case, who knows? … then USPTO was correct in rejecting anything to do with nuclear reactions, since there is no convincing evidence. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene You say potato, I say potato… But the main implications which stands out on first read – if we try to interpret what is being claimed in this disclosure relative to what we already know… 1)Non-nuclear 2)Requires substantial electrical input and elevate temperature 3)Requires ceramic containment 4)If hydrogen is the active “agent” for gain, in the sense of Ni-H - then the hydrogen must be embedded in the nickel as a strongly bound hydride instead of as a more weakly bound absorbate , in such a way that hydrogen is not released at extreme temperature (as it usually is). 5)Otherwise, and this is more likely: the ceramic matrix would retain the diffuse hydrogen after thermal release from the nickel; and if it is porous, as sintered ceramic usually is (6-8% porosity is common), then this points to a Casimir modality… If I were the folks at Jovion, I would be feeling pretty good about this turn of events, having a granted patent- United States 7,379,286Quantum vacuum energy extraction Inventors: Haisch, Bernard (Redwood City, CA); Moddel, Garret (Boulder, CO) Assignee: Jovion Corporation (Menlo Park, CA) Abstract A system is disclosed for converting energy from the electromagnetic quantum vacuum available at any point in the universe to usable energy in the form of heat, electricity, mechanical energy or other forms of power. By suppressing electromagnetic quantum vacuum energy at appropriate frequencies a change may be effected in the electron energy levels which will result in the emission or release of energy. Mode suppression of electromagnetic quantum vacuum radiation is known to take place in Casimir cavities. A Casimir cavity refers to any region in which electromagnetic modes are suppressed or restricted. When atoms enter into suitable micro Casimir cavities a decrease in the orbital energies of electrons in atoms will thus occur. Such energy will be captured in the claimed devices. Upon emergence form such micro Casimir cavities the atoms will be re-energized by the ambient electromagnetic quantum vacuum. In this way energy is extracted locally and replenished globally from and by the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. This process may be repeated an unlimited number of times. This process is also consistent with the conservation of energy in that all usable energy does come at the expense of the energy content of the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. Similar effects may be produced by acting upon molecular bonds. Devices are described in which gas is recycled through a multiplicity of Casimir cavities. The disclosed devices are scalable in size and energy output for applications ranging from replacements for small batteries to power plant sized generators of electricity.
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 10:09:13 AM I was referr ing to the evidence supporting the claimed COP and not the usefulness of the steam itself. Accurate measurement of the heat power is the important issue at hand. Of course the guys calculating the COP must know how much heat the steam contains. That seems obvious and not needing to be stated. Still needs to be taken into account. They don't describe the structure of the boiler. Since they're only aiming for 100C steam the hotcat heater elements are most likely immersed in a tank of water, so they just boil the water and don't super-heat the resulting steam. In that case it's most like a kettle boiler, which will typically (is this situation typical?) generate 95% steam quality. Depending on the application they might not even need dry 100C steam. In the original test they just had a simple outlet valve to check that no liquid water was escaping. They probably had that here, too, though it's not described. A real-life steam customer will be happy just seeing some steam vented, with no liquid water running out of the outlet. But it won't satisfy scientists and skeptics. Or the patent office?
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Everyone in Japan has a smartphone -- everyone!
David L. Babcock olb...@gmail.com wrote: My browser couldn't translate. Synopses please? You can run the text through: https://translate.google.com/ Anyway, the gist of it is that this is a photograph from the wildlife photographer of the year contest at the natural history Museum in London, England. That is a Japanese snow monkey in a hot spring pool. Someone was trying to take a picture of the monkey and got too close. The monkey swiped the smart phone and started playing with it as shown. Someone else took the picture. The monkey figured out how to use the built-in flash feature of the iPhone camera. This was one of the most popular pictures in the exhibit. I don't think it won an award but it was promoted to a special category. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Alan, The report notes that they ignored the energy needed to heat the steam beyond 100C and also underestimated the flow by 10% to be conservative. Does this affect your analysis? Jack On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: *From: *David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com *Sent: *Thursday, November 6, 2014 10:09:13 AM I was referring to the evidence supporting the claimed COP and not the usefulness of the steam itself. Accurate measurement of the heat power is the important issue at hand. Of course the guys calculating the COP must know how much heat the steam contains. That seems obvious and not needing to be stated. Still needs to be taken into account. They don't describe the structure of the boiler. Since they're only aiming for 100C steam the hotcat heater elements are most likely immersed in a tank of water, so they just boil the water and don't super-heat the resulting steam. In that case it's most like a kettle boiler, which will typically (is this situation typical?) generate 95% steam quality. Depending on the application they might not even need dry 100C steam. In the original test they just had a simple outlet valve to check that no liquid water was escaping. They probably had that here, too, though it's not described. A real-life steam customer will be happy just seeing some steam vented, with no liquid water running out of the outlet. But it won't satisfy scientists and skeptics. Or the patent office?
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
The COP etc is meaningless without replication or at the very worst - third party verification. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote: Alan, The report notes that they ignored the energy needed to heat the steam beyond 100C and also underestimated the flow by 10% to be conservative. Does this affect your analysis? Jack On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: *From: *David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com *Sent: *Thursday, November 6, 2014 10:09:13 AM I was referring to the evidence supporting the claimed COP and not the usefulness of the steam itself. Accurate measurement of the heat power is the important issue at hand. Of course the guys calculating the COP must know how much heat the steam contains. That seems obvious and not needing to be stated. Still needs to be taken into account. They don't describe the structure of the boiler. Since they're only aiming for 100C steam the hotcat heater elements are most likely immersed in a tank of water, so they just boil the water and don't super-heat the resulting steam. In that case it's most like a kettle boiler, which will typically (is this situation typical?) generate 95% steam quality. Depending on the application they might not even need dry 100C steam. In the original test they just had a simple outlet valve to check that no liquid water was escaping. They probably had that here, too, though it's not described. A real-life steam customer will be happy just seeing some steam vented, with no liquid water running out of the outlet. But it won't satisfy scientists and skeptics. Or the patent office?
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
From: Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:24:13 PM The report notes that they ignored the energy needed to heat the steam beyond 100C and also underestimated the flow by 10% to be conservative. Does this affect your analysis? With my engineering hat on, the result is probably valid. (Assuming the steam quality's 95% there's an extra 5% leeway). With my scientific/anti-pseudo-skeptic hat : a loophole as big as a barn. They probably could have rented a steam-quality meter for $100 for a day to do a spot check on vented steam. $1000 with an expert to run it. Or they could have installed a steam/water separator in the output pipe and monitored it continually. Or sparged the output. Or something.
RE: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
To take this part of the thread (re: a putative DCE connection to the Rossi patent application) - to its natural conclusion, there is one big … no huge … advance made by Rossi - over the Haisch/Moddel disclosure. That would be assuming that Rossi has actually seen the level of gain which is claimed, whereas H/M saw little gain in their prototype … which could have been for any number of reasons but mainly because you also need SPP. Therefore - the natural question of looking at the two together is this – can the Casimir effect be enhanced by high temperature (and SPP)? Thanks to Google, we have an answer, since this citation pops up (behind an annoying paywall) which indicates that the Casimir is indeed enhanced at high temperature. Imagine that. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140709/ncomms5364/abs/ncomms5364.html Abstract: The temperature dependence of the Casimir–Polder interaction addresses fundamental issues for understanding vacuum and thermal fluctuations. It is highly sensitive to surface waves, which, in the near field, govern the thermal emission of a hot surface… the observed increase of the interaction with temperature, by up to 50%, relies on the coupling between atomic virtual transitions in the infrared range and thermally excited surface-polariton modes. In conclusion – the Haisch/Moddel patent may explain slight thermal gain via DCE, when hydrogen is absorbed into ceramic cavities of the proper size, but which the original inventors could not document enough gain to matter. Yet Rossi has found using a much higher temperature regime - which he may not have explained correctly in his patent application using SPP in combination with Casimir. Each got part of the answer, but it requires looking at both to see it all. So where do we go from here? From: David Roberson * Are you not amazed that a patent is issued for a device of this type and not for one that claims cold fusion as the source of energy? Not really – this is the dividing line between mainstream and fringe – and it is a narrow line. I’m assuming you are talking about the Haisch/Moddel device, which is an issued patent; but which could relate to the Rossi HT which is only an application, not granted. Rossi was wise to drop the nuclear claims. * What are the chances that the inventors actually brought one of these systems to the patent office to prove that it works? None but they built a prototype. These are extremely well credentialed inventors. Plus the Casimir force is real. There is no need for anything else to establish credibility, and IIRC when this patent was part of CoolEssence – they built a prototype which performed poorly! So the patent was granted, even though the device did not perform well. Roarty may know the details of the prototype. It is very sad that our field is treated as the unwanted kid while everyone else gets a free ride But realize – this is because there is no good proof of a nuclear reaction in the estimation of USPTO yet the Casimir force is proved. If it turns out the Rossi HT device is based on the Dynamical Casimir Effect (DCE) – which very well could be the case, who knows? … then USPTO was correct in rejecting anything to do with nuclear reactions, since there is no convincing evidence. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene You say potato, I say potato… But the main implications which stands out on first read – if we try to interpret what is being claimed in this disclosure relative to what we already know… 1)Non-nuclear 2)Requires substantial electrical input and elevate temperature 3)Requires ceramic containment 4)If hydrogen is the active “agent” for gain, in the sense of Ni-H - then the hydrogen must be embedded in the nickel as a strongly bound hydride instead of as a more weakly bound absorbate , in such a way that hydrogen is not released at extreme temperature (as it usually is). 5)Otherwise, and this is more likely: the ceramic matrix would retain the diffuse hydrogen after thermal release from the nickel; and if it is porous, as sintered ceramic usually is (6-8% porosity is common), then this points to a Casimir modality… If I were the folks at Jovion, I would be feeling pretty good about this turn of events, having a granted patent- United States 7,379,286Quantum vacuum energy extraction Inventors: Haisch, Bernard (Redwood City, CA); Moddel, Garret (Boulder, CO) Assignee: Jovion Corporation (Menlo Park, CA) Abstract A system is disclosed for converting energy from the electromagnetic quantum vacuum available at any point in the universe to usable energy in the form of heat, electricity, mechanical energy or other forms of power. By suppressing electromagnetic quantum vacuum energy at appropriate frequencies a change may be effected in the electron energy levels which will result in the emission or release of energy. Mode
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
OK ... I re-read the paper more carefully. They only recorded data when the steam temperature was above 101C at atmospheric pressure, with actual steam temperatures rising from 121.3C to 139.7C So it MUST have been 100% dry, and super-heated -- no need to measure the quality. (OK : I could quibble a little, that the boiling point depends on the actual atmospheric pressure, or at least corrected for altitude.) I ran this through my steam calculator. They took water from two tanks, at slightly different temperatures --- starting at 21.6C and 22.4C, and ending at 54.9 and 46.8 so I used the highest value of 54.9 The time of the test is not given, so I set it to a nominal 1 hour. First, using their conservative values -- reducing the amount of water used (to 2295kg) and not counting the heating of the steam (Quality=1) This gives a COP of 11.081 -- which is close to their value. (The energy to heat he water to boiling, and then to superheat it is very small compared to the evaporation). http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=cefzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Conservativeedh=1edm=0eds=0eif=2295eip=140.7ecp=0eox=1eoxr=2et0=22.4ep0=1et1=54.9et2=100er2=1 However, their procedure complicates things : they apparently return the water straight back to the same tank, so it actually rises from 21.6 to a final value of 54.4 and a highest value of 54.9 (and similarly for the second tank). As the inlet water temperature rises, so does the steam temperature. They use the highest temperature values in their calculations, so they again under-estimate the COP. To try and estimate the true COP, I divided the time and water flow by 100, and then used the start and end temperature values. (In each case I use the highest temperature of the two tanks -- I could use a weighted average.), and the full volume of water. This still assumes that all the generator power goes into heating. This gave a COP of 13.2 at the start, and 12.7 at the end So I'd say that the actual COP is around 13
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
Good grief! 3 years on, and I've just noticed a bug in my calculator. I calculate COP = output/input (AND say so on the output). It's actually COP = (input+output)/input The values will be even higher than I reported!
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Everyone in Japan has a smartphone -- everyone!
Great photo Jed, BTW, when we were still living in Taiwan I had a pet monkey steal my glasses. I was about five or six years old at the time. I watched him chew on the frames. I think he was trying to determine whether it was edible or not. My mother saw the swipe as it happened. She freaked out. When the monkey's owners finally retrieved my glasses I recall my mother taking them to the bathroom to wash it down - I guess from filthy monkey spit or whatever. She was sobbing. Other than a few teeth marks I couldn't figure out what all the fuss was about. Shoot, I generated more teeth marks on any pencil I managed to get my paws on. I didn't like wearing glasses. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson svjart.orionworks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Everyone in Japan has a smartphone -- everyone!
Also further down there is a video of a cell phone playing a video of worms, many frogs come up and try to eat the videoed worms. Quite impressive. On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Great photo Jed, BTW, when we were still living in Taiwan I had a pet monkey steal my glasses. I was about five or six years old at the time. I watched him chew on the frames. I think he was trying to determine whether it was edible or not. My mother saw the swipe as it happened. She freaked out. When the monkey's owners finally retrieved my glasses I recall my mother taking them to the bathroom to wash it down - I guess from filthy monkey spit or whatever. She was sobbing. Other than a few teeth marks I couldn't figure out what all the fuss was about. Shoot, I generated more teeth marks on any pencil I managed to get my paws on. I didn't like wearing glasses. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson svjart.orionworks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Everyone in Japan has a smartphone -- everyone!
From John, Also further down there is a video of a cell phone playing a video of worms, many frogs come up and try to eat the videoed worms. Quite impressive. This reminds me of yet another animal intelligence story. If you have ever seen the PBS NATURE program titled A Murder of Crows get a copy if you have cats. One of our kitties, Zoey, when bonkers watching the black feathered creatures. We ended up putting a chair in front of the flat screen TV just for Zoey to crouch on. Eventually, she lunged at the screen and attempted to capture a couple of crows. Later she checked behind the screen. Very intelligent creatures, crows and felines. I'm not sure how intelligent simians are, but it was at least entertaining to me. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson svjart.orionworks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
My new calculations are : Nominal 12.08 (1 more than their result) Start: 14.2 End 13.7 Calculator : Nominal http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=defzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Conservativeedh=1edm=0eds=0eif=2295eip=140.7ecp=0eox=1eoxr=2et0=22.4ep0=1et1=54.9et2=100er2=1 Start http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=defzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Startedh=0edm=0eds=36eif=25.50eip=140.7ecp=0et3=121ep3=1eoxr=3et0=22.4ep0=1et1=22.4et2=100er2=1 End http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=defzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Endedh=0edm=0eds=36eif=25.50eip=140.7ecp=0et3=139.7ep3=1eoxr=3et0=22.4ep0=1et1=54.9et2=100er2=1
Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today
I forgot to subtract the generator power at the start of the run : My VERY new calculations are : Nominal 12.8 Start: 15.1 End 14.6
