RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Bob, No. A jury trial depends critically on the jury hearing and seeing the witness actually testify in person - and weighing truthfulness based on the witnesss demeanor and the handling of hard questions. IH would never agree to forego direct testimony by the most important witness in the case and the one most likely to crumble under pressure. And since when is a megawatt boiler not a boiler? Of course it is a boiler. From: Bob Cook I doubt that Rossi's device meets the definition of a boiler in the Florida code. In addition I would expect that his testimony (deposition) could be taken remotely, if he were out of the country. That deposition would substitute for his presence at the trial. In addition the misdemeanor charge may be a nit in the big picture that Peron sees. I would guess his lawyers would agree. He may even get immunity to such a charge from the Florida district attorney, since the issue is mute. Bob Cook From: Peter Gluck Ø dear Jones, some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, lawyers, hudges...everywhere. Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion unless you are implying that this trial will cost Rossi and IH together about $10 million, no matter what the verdict. That is 10% of ~100 million and probably not far off. Otherwise, you must be referring to Romania. In the USA, the sum in dispute is meaningless and often inflated so consequently, you are either paying on the clock (exorbitant hourly fee) or there is a contingency agreement in place which is typically one third of the actual judgment which is awarded, plus costs and fees. In the USA, contingency fees are based on the jury award, not the amount in dispute. One of the beauties of capitalism, no? Few lawyers would touch Rossis case on contingency, given his history of legal problems. Most likely the situation is that he is being bled, drop by drop by high hourly fees and his attorney would like to drag that blood-letting out as long as possible. Same on the other side. Looking ahead, I agree with Brian Ahern who has opined that as soon as it comes time to produce Penon for deposition, if he does not show up - then the entire case will be tossed since Penons testimony is critical and no data can be introduced at trial without his physical presence. It is futile to quibble over these small details about the filings, motions and posturing, until the depositions. Bottom line: both sides are being fleeced by the legal system. And both are probably deserving of that predicament, but for different reasons. BTW - If Penon shows up for deposition, and holds up against the IH legal team, then there could be a settlement, but chances are that he will be unavailable. It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida for operating a boiler without a license and failing to have US certification as a practicing engineer. Actual fraud has been mentioned by IH. If you were Penon, would you return?
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Jones-- I doubt that Rossi's device meets the definition of a boiler in the Florida code. In addition I would expect that his testimony (deposition) could be taken remotely, if he were out of the country. That deposition would substitute for his presence at the trial. In addition the misdemeanor charge may be a nit in the big picture that Peron sees. I would guess his lawyers would agree. He may even get immunity to such a charge from the Florida district attorney, since the issue is mute. Bob Cook From: Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 1:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity! From: Peter Gluck Ø dear Jones, some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, lawyers, hudges...everywhere. Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion... unless you are implying that this trial will cost Rossi and IH together about $10 million, no matter what the verdict. That is 10% of ~100 million and probably not far off. Otherwise, you must be referring to Romania. In the USA, the sum in dispute is meaningless and often inflated - so consequently, you are either paying on the clock (exorbitant hourly fee) or there is a contingency agreement in place ... which is typically one third of the actual judgment which is awarded, plus costs and fees. In the USA, contingency fees are based on the jury award, not the amount in dispute. One of the beauties of capitalism, no? Few lawyers would touch Rossi's case on contingency, given his history of legal problems. Most likely the situation is that he is being bled, drop by drop by high hourly fees and his attorney would like to drag that blood-letting out as long as possible. Same on the other side. Looking ahead, I agree with Brian Ahern who has opined that as soon as it comes time to produce Penon for deposition, if he does not show up - then the entire case will be tossed... since Penon's testimony is critical and no data can be introduced at trial without his physical presence. It is futile to quibble over these small details about the filings, motions and posturing, until the depositions. Bottom line: both sides are being fleeced by the legal system. And both are probably deserving of that predicament, but for different reasons. BTW - If Penon shows up for deposition, and holds up against the IH legal team, then there could be a settlement, but chances are that he will be unavailable. It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida for operating a boiler without a license and failing to have US certification as a practicing engineer. Actual fraud has been mentioned by IH. If you were Penon, would you return?
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
I agree with Axil. However, Jed must feel it is worthwhile pontificating like he does with the same old same old. Bob Cook From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 5:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity! Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote: Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes, ventilation holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a waste of time for yourself and everybody else. What are you talking about? Rossi claimed the device was producing 1 MW. He did not say it was producing 23 kW. Even if he had said that, we know that it produced no excess heat at all. We also know that Rossi made huge mistakes. And how do we know this? Because the pipe was half empty, and people were not dying from the heat. That's proof. It is not a "line of argument" that the pipe was half full. It is a physical fact. Why do you suddenly claim it is not proof or it does not matter? I think you need to get back to denying it the facts, and to claiming there is a magical endothermic reaction that swallows up the heat. Be consistent! You have made assertions that are contrary to the conservation of energy, and that any engineer or scientist on earth knows cannot be true. You believe these things only because Rossi said them. If anyone else had claimed there is magic endothermic process, you would instantly dismiss that. Either you stick with what you Rossi said, or you admit he is wrong. Do not suddenly say that his claims don't matter because hypothetically it might have been 23 kW. He said it was 1 MW. His calorimetry showed that, because the pipe was half full, and for various other reasons. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Axil Axilwrote: Rossi might lie all the time, but if that lie is not material in meeting > the legal requirements of the licence, then whatever Rossi might say is > immaterial. > There is no excess heat. The legal requirements of the license are not met for that reason. Also because Rossi did not teach I.H. his intellectual property. In that sense you right; it is not Rossi's words that matter, it is the fact that his machine does not work. Rossi claims that the ERV report is correct, and therefore I.H. owes him the $89 million. The report is wrong. The conclusions are wrong. It is true that what Rossi says does not matter, but that is because any scientist or engineer will testify that what he says violates the conservation of energy, and because there are no magic endothermic effects. If Rossi could prove there is an magic endothermic effect after all, his words would make a huge difference. He would win a Nobel prize for discovering the magic endothermic effect. What he says is immaterial only because it is nonsense. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Rossi might lie all the time, but if that lie is not material in meeting the legal requirements of the licence, then whatever Rossi might say is immaterial. Jed, you should take a course in systems engineering and understand how requirements are meet in a test. On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Axil Axil wrote: > > Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes, >> ventilation holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a >> waste of time for yourself and everybody else. >> > > What are you talking about? Rossi claimed the device was producing 1 MW. > He did not say it was producing 23 kW. Even if he had said that, we know > that it produced no excess heat at all. We also know that Rossi made huge > mistakes. And how do we know this? Because the pipe was half empty, and > people were not dying from the heat. That's proof. > > It is not a "line of argument" that the pipe was half full. It is a > physical fact. > > Why do you suddenly claim it is not proof or it does not matter? I think > you need to get back to denying it the facts, and to claiming there is a > magical endothermic reaction that swallows up the heat. Be consistent! You > have made assertions that are contrary to the conservation of energy, and > that any engineer or scientist on earth knows cannot be true. You believe > these things only because Rossi said them. If anyone else had claimed there > is magic endothermic process, you would instantly dismiss that. > > Either you stick with what you Rossi said, or you admit he is wrong. Do > not suddenly say that his claims don't matter because hypothetically it > might have been 23 kW. He said it was 1 MW. His calorimetry showed that, > because the pipe was half full, and for various other reasons. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Axil Axilwrote: Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes, > ventilation holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a > waste of time for yourself and everybody else. > What are you talking about? Rossi claimed the device was producing 1 MW. He did not say it was producing 23 kW. Even if he had said that, we know that it produced no excess heat at all. We also know that Rossi made huge mistakes. And how do we know this? Because the pipe was half empty, and people were not dying from the heat. That's proof. It is not a "line of argument" that the pipe was half full. It is a physical fact. Why do you suddenly claim it is not proof or it does not matter? I think you need to get back to denying it the facts, and to claiming there is a magical endothermic reaction that swallows up the heat. Be consistent! You have made assertions that are contrary to the conservation of energy, and that any engineer or scientist on earth knows cannot be true. You believe these things only because Rossi said them. If anyone else had claimed there is magic endothermic process, you would instantly dismiss that. Either you stick with what you Rossi said, or you admit he is wrong. Do not suddenly say that his claims don't matter because hypothetically it might have been 23 kW. He said it was 1 MW. His calorimetry showed that, because the pipe was half full, and for various other reasons. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes, ventilation holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a waste of time for yourself and everybody else. You are wasting megatones of internet ink for no proper effect. On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Axil Axil wrote: > > An power output of 3 KW would still meet the licence requirements. >> > > The input was ~20 kW. Do you mean a power output of 23 kW would satisfy > the requirements? > > I am sure that if I.H. had measured 23 kW with confidence, and Rossi had > transferred the IP, they would have paid the $89 million. They said they > were not that concerned about the letter of the contract. They just wanted > to see proof of excess heat. Unfortunately, a careful measurement of the > heat balance showed there was no excess heat. Not even 3 kW. > > 23 kW of output with 20 kW input would not measurably change the room > temperature, but you could measure it with proper calorimetry. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Axil Axilwrote: An power output of 3 KW would still meet the licence requirements. > The input was ~20 kW. Do you mean a power output of 23 kW would satisfy the requirements? I am sure that if I.H. had measured 23 kW with confidence, and Rossi had transferred the IP, they would have paid the $89 million. They said they were not that concerned about the letter of the contract. They just wanted to see proof of excess heat. Unfortunately, a careful measurement of the heat balance showed there was no excess heat. Not even 3 kW. 23 kW of output with 20 kW input would not measurably change the room temperature, but you could measure it with proper calorimetry. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
An power output of 3 KW would still meet the licence requirements. Can't you understand that power level is not required? Your arguments are classic red herring propaganda. On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Axil Axil wrote: > > The is no power requirement defined in the licence agreement. As long as >> the steam temperature is 100C and the COP is greater than 4, then >> requirements are meet. >> > > A COP of 4 would mean the output is 80 kW. The room would be quite warm if > there were this much heat. It was not warm. > > Also, the people from I.H. were able to do proper calorimetry, and they > confirmed there was no excess heat. > > If the COP were 4, and Rossi had given I.H. the intellectual property the > way he was contractually obligated to do, I.H. would have happily paid > Rossi $89 million, and we would not be having this conversation. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Axil Axilwrote: The is no power requirement defined in the licence agreement. As long as > the steam temperature is 100C and the COP is greater than 4, then > requirements are meet. > A COP of 4 would mean the output is 80 kW. The room would be quite warm if there were this much heat. It was not warm. Also, the people from I.H. were able to do proper calorimetry, and they confirmed there was no excess heat. If the COP were 4, and Rossi had given I.H. the intellectual property the way he was contractually obligated to do, I.H. would have happily paid Rossi $89 million, and we would not be having this conversation. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
The is no power requirement defined in the licence agreement. As long as the steam temperature is 100C and the COP is greater than 4, then requirements are meet. The reactor could be off for 23.95 hours, be when it functions, it must been the "100C and the COP is greater than 4" requirement. Your arguments are Red herrings. On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Peter Gluck wrote: > > >> The photos up;oaded have nothing to do with the plant . . . >> > > You are wrong. Those are photos of the plant, and the plant ceiling, which > has no ventilation equipment capable of removing 1 MW, or even 100 kW. > > I am sure those are photos of the plant. Eyewitnesses have told me this, > and Rossi's lawyers have not denied it. > > > >> , you must know well the diagram and half full pipes are not good even as >> joke >> The idea of not pressurized is a new ineptness. >> > > I am quite certain the pipes were half full, from the description of the > rust and from eyewitness reports. I am quite sure that you are wrong, and > that unpressurized pipes are often half full. > > > >> Are you aware that if Rosi does not explain thee nergy consuume to the >> Judge the Trial is lost by him simply? >> > > You mean the jury. If Rossi cannot explain how 1 MW of energy disappears, > any scientist or engineer will testify that Rossi is a fraud and that his > claims are impossible. > > You yourself understand the conservation of energy, and you know there can > be no edothermic process absorbing the heat. I am sure you would agree if > anyone other than Rossi made this claim. You are blinded by your intense > desire to believe his claims are real. > > > >> If for you the consume use dumping of the heat of 1.4 tons of steam per >> hour is such an impossibility better stay with IT. >> > > 1.4 tons of steam cannot magically disappear. It has to be released to the > atmosphere, and heat plume was detected. Or it has to be flushed in cold > water, and it is not possible to have this much water in this building. > > The hot air or steam would be easily detected, and it is not. Furthermore, > there is no conceivable reason why Rossi would take steps to hide the heat, > since it would prove his claims are real. He would be paid $89 million for > demonstrating this heat is real. He would not hide it. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
On 09/18/2016 04:54 PM, Jones Beene wrote: *From:*Peter Gluck Ødear Jones,some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, lawyers, hudges...everywhere. Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion… Hasn't been that, for at least a couple months. It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida for operating a boiler without a license and failing to have US certification as a practicing engineer. Actual fraud has been mentioned by IH. If you were Penon, would you return? Only if I were extradited. It was a dirty job, and he's surely glad it's over.
RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
From: Peter Gluck Ø dear Jones, some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, lawyers, hudges...everywhere. Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion… unless you are implying that this trial will cost Rossi and IH together about $10 million, no matter what the verdict. That is 10% of ~100 million and probably not far off. Otherwise, you must be referring to Romania. In the USA, the sum in dispute is meaningless and often inflated – so consequently, you are either paying on the clock (exorbitant hourly fee) or there is a contingency agreement in place … which is typically one third of the actual judgment which is awarded, plus costs and fees. In the USA, contingency fees are based on the jury award, not the amount in dispute. One of the beauties of capitalism, no? Few lawyers would touch Rossi’s case on contingency, given his history of legal problems. Most likely the situation is that he is being bled, drop by drop by high hourly fees and his attorney would like to drag that blood-letting out as long as possible. Same on the other side. Looking ahead, I agree with Brian Ahern who has opined that as soon as it comes time to produce Penon for deposition, if he does not show up - then the entire case will be tossed… since Penon’s testimony is critical and no data can be introduced at trial without his physical presence. It is futile to quibble over these small details about the filings, motions and posturing, until the depositions. Bottom line: both sides are being fleeced by the legal system. And both are probably deserving of that predicament, but for different reasons. BTW - If Penon shows up for deposition, and holds up against the IH legal team, then there could be a settlement, but chances are that he will be unavailable. It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida for operating a boiler without a license and failing to have US certification as a practicing engineer. Actual fraud has been mentioned by IH. If you were Penon, would you return?
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
I mean to say: 1.4 tons of steam cannot magically disappear. It has to be released to the atmosphere, and NO heat plume was detected. No plume of hot air or steam. This would be easy to detect. It would be impossible to hide. There is no reason why Rossi would hide it, as I said. He claimed that the process underway in the JM factory was secret, but nothing about ordinary ventilation equipment would be secret. There was, in fact, no process underway in the JM facility. No one went in or came out. No raw materials were brought or finished products removed. It was an empty room. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Peter Gluckwrote: > The photos up;oaded have nothing to do with the plant . . . > You are wrong. Those are photos of the plant, and the plant ceiling, which has no ventilation equipment capable of removing 1 MW, or even 100 kW. I am sure those are photos of the plant. Eyewitnesses have told me this, and Rossi's lawyers have not denied it. > , you must know well the diagram and half full pipes are not good even as > joke > The idea of not pressurized is a new ineptness. > I am quite certain the pipes were half full, from the description of the rust and from eyewitness reports. I am quite sure that you are wrong, and that unpressurized pipes are often half full. > Are you aware that if Rosi does not explain thee nergy consuume to the > Judge the Trial is lost by him simply? > You mean the jury. If Rossi cannot explain how 1 MW of energy disappears, any scientist or engineer will testify that Rossi is a fraud and that his claims are impossible. You yourself understand the conservation of energy, and you know there can be no edothermic process absorbing the heat. I am sure you would agree if anyone other than Rossi made this claim. You are blinded by your intense desire to believe his claims are real. > If for you the consume use dumping of the heat of 1.4 tons of steam per > hour is such an impossibility better stay with IT. > 1.4 tons of steam cannot magically disappear. It has to be released to the atmosphere, and heat plume was detected. Or it has to be flushed in cold water, and it is not possible to have this much water in this building. The hot air or steam would be easily detected, and it is not. Furthermore, there is no conceivable reason why Rossi would take steps to hide the heat, since it would prove his claims are real. He would be paid $89 million for demonstrating this heat is real. He would not hide it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Jed, The photos up;oaded have nothing to do with the plant, you must know well the diagram and half full pipes are not good even as joke The idea of not pressurized is a new ineptness. Kind of kitschy vaudeville. Are you aware that if Rosi does not explain thee nergy consuume to the Judge the Trial is lost by him simply? If for you the consume use dumping of the heat of 1.4 tons of steam per hour is such an impossibility better stay with IT. peter On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Peter Gluck wrote: > > You cannot go to a Trial with incredible storiesas half full pipes in the >> plant (you defended it heroically but I am convinced you do not take it >> seriously) >> > > Of course I am serious. I have uploaded photos of half-full pipes. This > pipe is not pressurized so it can easily be half full. > > When Rossi tells you he as an endothermic industrial process that absorbs > 1 MW of heat continuously for months, you take that seriously. You believe > it. I do not accuse you of pretending. So you should not accuse me of not > believing something that anyone can easily produce with any open pipe and > flow of water. > > > >> and the other stories - the Judge already knows how was the energy >> consumed and who is Bass so now IH has to came with a better set, probably. >> > > No one "knows how the energy was consumed." Rossi's explanation is > impossible. Only you believe it, because you believe anything Rossi says. > If anyone else had told you this, with your engineering background you > would instantly see that it is nonsense. > > - Jed > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Peter Gluckwrote: You cannot go to a Trial with incredible storiesas half full pipes in the > plant (you defended it heroically but I am convinced you do not take it > seriously) > Of course I am serious. I have uploaded photos of half-full pipes. This pipe is not pressurized so it can easily be half full. When Rossi tells you he as an endothermic industrial process that absorbs 1 MW of heat continuously for months, you take that seriously. You believe it. I do not accuse you of pretending. So you should not accuse me of not believing something that anyone can easily produce with any open pipe and flow of water. > and the other stories - the Judge already knows how was the energy > consumed and who is Bass so now IH has to came with a better set, probably. > No one "knows how the energy was consumed." Rossi's explanation is impossible. Only you believe it, because you believe anything Rossi says. If anyone else had told you this, with your engineering background you would instantly see that it is nonsense. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
dear Jones, some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, lawyers, hudges...everywhere. Te problem depends on the reality of the technology of Rossi and on the billionaire or not statuses of Darden and Vaughn. peter On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Jones Beenewrote: > To be brutally honest – why should any of us waste time over the minutiae > of this case? It’s all about “billable hours” … and if anything changes > before the trial, usually it’s less likely to favor the plaintiff. > > > > The going rate for top corporate law firms is over $1000 per hour. (Forbes > says its over $1500 !). The only winners, as in most lawsuits, will be the > attorneys. Think of each of these filings as a new Mercedes. > > > > Rossi and IH are both bleeding and in death throes … neither will survive, > but sadly, the biggest loser of all is the LENR community. What we need to > get out of this funk is any kind of valid scientific breakthrough, even a > modest one, so we can forget Rossigate and move on. > > > > *From:* Jed Rothwell > > > > Peter Gluck wrote: > > > > you can now prove that you have good sources of information; > > can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker > > explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY? > > > > I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document. > You should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us. > > > > > > Is this an "elastic" withdrawal? > > > > If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See: > > > > http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice > > > > - Jed > > > > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
To be brutally honest – why should any of us waste time over the minutiae of this case? It’s all about “billable hours” … and if anything changes before the trial, usually it’s less likely to favor the plaintiff. The going rate for top corporate law firms is over $1000 per hour. (Forbes says its over $1500 !). The only winners, as in most lawsuits, will be the attorneys. Think of each of these filings as a new Mercedes. Rossi and IH are both bleeding and in death throes … neither will survive, but sadly, the biggest loser of all is the LENR community. What we need to get out of this funk is any kind of valid scientific breakthrough, even a modest one, so we can forget Rossigate and move on. From: Jed Rothwell Peter Gluckwrote: you can now prove that you have good sources of information; can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY? I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document. You should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us. Is this an "elastic" withdrawal? If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Thanks! What has surprised me (beyond the genuine legal aspects) was the chlorotic (weakling) character of their arguments as I have shown in my EGO OUT editorials of: Sep 06- "A Stake in Dracula's Heart..(Exhibit 5); Sep 13- Myths of proofs You cannot go to a Trial with incredible storiesas half full pipes in the plant (you defended it heroically but I am convinced you do not take it seriously) and the other stories - the Judge already knows how was the energy consumed and who is Bass so now IH has to came with a better set, probably. Do not answer please without solid arguments it seems IH and Co has not 6 Aces in their cards just small values. Peter On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Peter Gluck wrote: > > you can now prove that you have good sources of information; >> can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker >> explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY? >> > > I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document. > You should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us. > > > >> Is this an "elastic" withdrawal? >> > > If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See: > > http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice > > - Jed > > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Peter Gluckwrote: you can now prove that you have good sources of information; > can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker > explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY? > I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document. You should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us. > Is this an "elastic" withdrawal? > If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Jed, you can now prove that you have good sources of information; can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY? Is this an "elastic" withdrawal? Anyway it sounds not well for "somebody" claiming to have 6 aces in their cards, isn't it? peter On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > a.ashfield wrote: > > >> I don't know where you are getting your information from but it looks to >> me that others in academia are taking a wait and see stand rather than >> dismissing Rossi as you do. >> > > I get my information from the researchers. I meet with them every few > years at ICCF conferences, and we often exchange message when I copy-edit > their papers. > > Where do you get your information? You are wrong. > > If you have any doubt about my report, I suggest you contact some > researchers yourself. > > >> It also seems there is more research going on in Ni/LAH/Li systems with >> other governments now starting to back it. >> > > There has been for some time. It has little or nothing to do with Rossi. > Anyway, Rossi's own credibility is gone, for obvious reasons. Seriously, do > you think that any scientist or engineer would believe there might be 1 MW > of heat released in that warehouse facility? Do you think anyone outside of > Planet Rossi believes there can be an endothermic process that magically > swallows up that much heat, 24 hours a day, for months? That's crazy. No > one with a scientific or technical background would believe such nonsense > if they were not deeply in thrall of Rossi's deceptions. If someone not > named Rossi said things like that, you and Peter Gluck would instantly > dismiss them. You only believe it because you are emotionally invested in > Rossi, you are engaged in wishful thinking, and you cannot face reality. > > > >> The problem with the better proven electrolysis route is that it is not >> clear how it can be scaled up. >> > > That's incorrect. Many large scale electrolytic devices have been built, > for various purposes. > > > >> I expect to see a commercial unit from Rossi in 6 - 12 months. >> > > You are deluded, as I said. If anything Rossi said were true, he and the > people in that warehouse facility would be dead. You saw the photos of it; > you know that as well as I do. You just cannot admit it even to yourself. > > It's over. You need to let go of Rossi. > > - Jed > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
a.ashfieldwrote: > I don't know where you are getting your information from but it looks to > me that others in academia are taking a wait and see stand rather than > dismissing Rossi as you do. > I get my information from the researchers. I meet with them every few years at ICCF conferences, and we often exchange message when I copy-edit their papers. Where do you get your information? You are wrong. If you have any doubt about my report, I suggest you contact some researchers yourself. > It also seems there is more research going on in Ni/LAH/Li systems with > other governments now starting to back it. > There has been for some time. It has little or nothing to do with Rossi. Anyway, Rossi's own credibility is gone, for obvious reasons. Seriously, do you think that any scientist or engineer would believe there might be 1 MW of heat released in that warehouse facility? Do you think anyone outside of Planet Rossi believes there can be an endothermic process that magically swallows up that much heat, 24 hours a day, for months? That's crazy. No one with a scientific or technical background would believe such nonsense if they were not deeply in thrall of Rossi's deceptions. If someone not named Rossi said things like that, you and Peter Gluck would instantly dismiss them. You only believe it because you are emotionally invested in Rossi, you are engaged in wishful thinking, and you cannot face reality. > The problem with the better proven electrolysis route is that it is not > clear how it can be scaled up. > That's incorrect. Many large scale electrolytic devices have been built, for various purposes. > I expect to see a commercial unit from Rossi in 6 - 12 months. > You are deluded, as I said. If anything Rossi said were true, he and the people in that warehouse facility would be dead. You saw the photos of it; you know that as well as I do. You just cannot admit it even to yourself. It's over. You need to let go of Rossi. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Jed, I don't know where you are getting your information from but it looks to me that others in academia are taking a wait and see stand rather than dismissing Rossi as you do. It also seems there is more research going on in Ni/LAH/Li systems with other governments now starting to back it. The problem with the better proven electrolysis route is that it is not clear how it can be scaled up. I expect to see a commercial unit from Rossi in 6 - 12 months. AA On 9/16/2016 4:24 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Axil Axil> wrote: LENR should breakup into two independent sects, the Rossi sect and the Rothwell sect. That is more or less what has happened. However, you should not call it the "Rothwell sect." That gives the impression that I am part of a minority, or that I somehow lead the effort. Ask around and you will see that nearly all researchers in this field think Rossi is a flimflam man and a liar. Rossi has no support among the conventional academic researchers. As I pointed out before, Pam boss seems to despise him even more than I do. I do not know anyone who is actually doing research or has published papers in this field who supports Rossi. There were a few years ago, but not now. You Rossi supporters are a small minority. A few of you apparently still believe Defkalion. I find that mind-boggling, in light of the Gamberale report: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf It makes me wonder what do these people have to do before you will finally see they are liars. It seems you will excuse anything. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Axil Axilwrote: LENR should breakup into two independent sects, the Rossi sect and the > Rothwell sect. > That is more or less what has happened. However, you should not call it the "Rothwell sect." That gives the impression that I am part of a minority, or that I somehow lead the effort. Ask around and you will see that nearly all researchers in this field think Rossi is a flimflam man and a liar. Rossi has no support among the conventional academic researchers. As I pointed out before, Pam boss seems to despise him even more than I do. I do not know anyone who is actually doing research or has published papers in this field who supports Rossi. There were a few years ago, but not now. You Rossi supporters are a small minority. A few of you apparently still believe Defkalion. I find that mind-boggling, in light of the Gamberale report: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf It makes me wonder what do these people have to do before you will finally see they are liars. It seems you will excuse anything. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Stephen A. Lawrencewrote: A researcher with a good experiment should contact I.H. They might fund the >> research. No one else will. No government will. >> > > Once burned twice shy. > > Do you really think I.H. would take another flier on cold fusion at this > point? > They are supporting other researchers. I know this because I am contact with I.H. and also with some of the researchers. I do not know how many researchers are working with them. > Rossi did a great job. He has totally nuked the chances of CF to go > anywhere for a long, long time to come. Between getting egg on a lot of > people's faces, costing some people a lot of money, and making some CF > experts look like idiots for not seeing through him sooner . . . whatever > aura of respectability the field might have had has gone in the dumper at > this point. > I agree. However, I.H. has not given up, fortunately. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
LENR should breakup into two independent sects, the Rossi sect and the Rothwell sect. Each of these sects should ignore the other. On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Stephen A. Lawrencewrote: > > > On 09/16/2016 03:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> >> A researcher with a good experiment should contact I.H. They might fund >> the research. No one else will. No government will. >> > > Once burned twice shy. > > Do you really think I.H. would take another flier on cold fusion at this > point? > > Rossi did a great job. He has totally nuked the chances of CF to go > anywhere for a long, long time to come. Between getting egg on a lot of > people's faces, costing some people a lot of money, and making some CF > experts look like idiots for not seeing through him sooner (which should > have surprised nobody -- con man versus scientists, con man usually wins), > whatever aura of respectability the field might have had has gone in the > dumper at this point. > > Anyhow that's my sad opinion on the situation :-( > >
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
On 09/16/2016 03:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: A researcher with a good experiment should contact I.H. They might fund the research. No one else will. No government will. Once burned twice shy. Do you really think I.H. would take another flier on cold fusion at this point? Rossi did a great job. He has totally nuked the chances of CF to go anywhere for a long, long time to come. Between getting egg on a lot of people's faces, costing some people a lot of money, and making some CF experts look like idiots for not seeing through him sooner (which should have surprised nobody -- con man versus scientists, con man usually wins), whatever aura of respectability the field might have had has gone in the dumper at this point. Anyhow that's my sad opinion on the situation :-(
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
Peter Gluckwrote: It happens I thought first about the classic LENR community. > You might as well try to herd cats. > But your idea can be taken in consideration, what about a league and a > movement of Sucessful Competitors of the Rossi Technology- as claimed by > Rossi? > Rossi has no technology. If he claims there are competitors, he lies. > Do yiu see a personality r an organization > able to unify LENR- in some extent? > Given the personalities of the researchers I think this is a forlorn hope. I do not see much use for unity at this stage. A researcher with a good experiment should contact I.H. They might fund the research. No one else will. No government will. > As Lennart has said there is still no verdict regarding the Rossi > Technology. > He is wrong. The verdict is clear. If Rossi's claims were true everyone in the warehouse would be dead. If Rossi's claims were even partly true, the warehouse would have been very hot, and it was not. The details are spelled out in Exhibit 5, but all you really need to know is that the warehouse was not as hot as an oven. As you see from the photos it would have been if there had actually been a 1 MW heat source. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
It happens I thought first about the classic LENR community. But your idea can be taken in consideration, what about a league and a movement of Sucessful Competitors of the Rossi Technology- as claimed by Rossi? If unity pro goes with difficulty perhaps unity against something is more stimulative? What is your personal strategy? Do yiu see a personality r an organization able to unify LENR- in some extent? As Lennart has said there is still no verdict regarding the Rossi Technology. peter On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:06 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > We sure as hell do should not unify behind Rossi, if that is what you are > thinking. If researchers endorse flimflam artists such as Rossi and > Defkalion it will be the end of cold fusion. > > - Jed > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
One should not judge without all info. One does not need to believe that AR has anything, but 'we sure as hell should' give him the right to prove himself before judgement. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM) On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > We sure as hell do should not unify behind Rossi, if that is what you are > thinking. If researchers endorse flimflam artists such as Rossi and > Defkalion it will be the end of cold fusion. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!
We sure as hell do should not unify behind Rossi, if that is what you are thinking. If researchers endorse flimflam artists such as Rossi and Defkalion it will be the end of cold fusion. - Jed