Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I found that Nelson report reporting KCO3 usage by DGT http://ecatnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Summary-of-Visit-to-Defkalion.pdf Key point claimed by DGT, like did ENEA at ICCF15 is that NAE are linked to crystallography structure. ENEA talk of 100 vs 101 (seems to be cutting plan family, but I'm incompetent). DGT added they need of some vacancies in the crystal... Celani treatment should be studied around that idea maybe. 2013/5/29 Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation
If CB signal controls the eCat (which I doubt) then the problems of overheating, positive feedback will be solved easily. This is not the case. Otherwise a CB radio amateur could solve the eCat control issue if it was so easy and COP infinite. If EM enhances the reaction rate, then it should at a low frequency regarding the material used by Rossi to make its eCat. _ From: David L Babcock [mailto:ol...@rochester.rr.com] Sent: jeudi 30 mai 2013 02:57 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation If plenty of power is available, and stringent RF interference specs don't need to be met, the simple wires will work fine. But I must admit an engineer would always use a coax for such a task. But maybe not an engineer who is trying to obsfucate On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible . The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:19 PM Eric Walker wrote: ** - We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. The ends were cone-shaped AISI 316 steel caps that were hot-hammered into the ends. I don't think they were welded. This hot-hammering of the cone-shaped insert is a description of a type of cold welding. Cold welding is when two metal pieces are scrubbed together with great force, usually heated, causing them to permanently bond. The cold part is that it does not involve melting the metal to provide the welded bond.
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:27:51 AM The ends were cone-shaped AISI 316 steel caps that were hot-hammered into the ends. I don't think they were welded. This hot-hammering of the cone-shaped insert is a description of a type of cold welding. Cold welding is when two metal pieces are scrubbed together with great force, usually heated, causing them to permanently bond. The cold part is that it does not involve melting the metal to provide the welded bond. This type of metalwork used to be referred to as Cold Fusion. (eg Ben Franklin used the term). So ... does the Hotcat involve Cold Fusion? Yes!
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Yes Eric I can, but only in terms of my theory. As you know, I believe small gaps are required that are created by stress relief. So, what would Rossi have to react Ni with to create stress in the surface? The reaction would have to result in a compound having a high melting point, low sintering rate, a very small stress, and a brittle structure at the surface. A search of the various stable chemical compounds Ni can form reveal materials that can work. These are limited to formation of borides, silicides, or carbides. Further examination can isolate the concentration of each that would create the required stress. Once the require gap is formed and loaded with Hydrotons, it becomes stable and will not close or get larger without a large investment of energy. Rossi demonstrated that the gap is stable well above 800° C, which is an important revelation and essential to eventual application of the method. My guess is that he reacts the Ni with low pressure SiH4 gas before it is exposed to H2, after which it is heated to the operating temperature. This is something you do not want to do at home, but it may be a useful approach to explore. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Eric Walker wrote: On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Can you expand upon this thought? Eric
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation
I notice that in the pictures they are twisted pairs; could it be a transmission line. --On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:57 PM -0400 David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: If plenty of power is available, and stringent RF interference specs don't need to be met, the simple wires will work fine. But I must admit an engineer would always use a coax for such a task. But maybe not an engineer who is trying to obsfucate On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible … The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. __ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? __ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Hi, On 29-5-2013 16:29, Bob Higgins wrote: Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. What if this wire is wound in a coil shape? I believe the cylindrical outer heaters are just resistor coils embedded in a high thermal conductivity ceramic. I suspect that Andrea has at TWO sides of the power triangle more or less regular resistors connected and between the phases at the third side a resistor coil for a very specific frequency range. This may cause the huge phase shift of all the phases of the power signals and possibly also an oscillation needed for a resonance inside the reactor? Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
*The powder is still the active agent of the reaction. In the December test, the powder was concentrated in two places. This concentration produced hot spots, uneven distribution of heat who control was difficult leading to a meltdown.* * * * * *If the active agent were produced on the inside wall of the reaction tube, this powder concentration would not have caused the meltdown.* * * * * *Therefore, the reaction is still centered on the powder as the active agent of the reaction.* On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comwrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. - We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. - When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. - It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. - 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in *high thermal contact with the cylinder*. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a thermo-chemical modification of the surface to create the NAEs in high number on the inner textured Ni surface. Then, cold weld one end of the cylinder closed. Calculate the amount of metal hydride needed to release the desired pressure of H2 into the cylinder when it is heated and put this powder inside the cylinder. Cold weld seal the second end closed. Viola! You have a hotCat reactor core. Rossi has also described his cat and mouse where the mouse was added to enhance the performance of the hotCat. An easy speculation for this would be that he could take some of his previous Rossi micro-Ni + catalyst powder and add that as well to the hotCat as a means to help the reaction begin from a lower temperature. I believe the cylindrical outer heaters are just resistor coils embedded in a high thermal conductivity ceramic. Comments?
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I believe the cylindrical outer heaters are just resistor coils embedded in a high thermal conductivity ceramic. I suspect that Andrea has at TWO sides of the power triangle more or less regular resistors connected and between the phases at the third side a resistor coil for a very specific frequency range. This may cause the huge phase shift of all the phases of the power signals and possibly also an oscillation needed for a resonance inside the reactor? Because the central cylinder is a thick, closed conductive cylinder, any AC (oscillatory) signals in the heater surrounding the cylinder will be reflected or absorbed as heat before reaching the inner confines of the cell where the H2 is. There will be a huge attenuation from the outside to the inside. If the exterior AC/RF is increased in amplitude, by the time enough RF energy is deposited into the H2 to cause any disassociation, you would probably have melted the stainless cell from the amount of RF that the cell converted to heat (absorbed in skin resistance). I just don't think this form of H2 excitation is possible with the present configuration. I think his reaction is being stimulated by heat (perhaps cycled heating).
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Hi, On 29-5-2013 17:11, Bob Higgins wrote: I think his reaction is being stimulated by heat (perhaps cycled heating). That's were the two more or less regular resistors play their role to heat up the system, while the third coil is responsible for the oscillation. Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Hi, What if the vessel is acting as a kind of capacitor and in conjunction with the coil creates the ideal oscillation circuit? Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
*Are you saying that the oscillations set up in the mouse (outer cylinder) induces oscillations inside the cat (inner cylinder)?* * * *The mouse pulls the cats tail?* On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Rob Dingemans manonbrid...@aim.comwrote: Hi, What if the vessel is acting as a kind of capacitor and in conjunction with the coil creates the ideal oscillation circuit? Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Hi, On 29-5-2013 17:24, Axil Axil wrote: *Are you saying that the oscillations set up in the mouse (outer cylinder) induces oscillations inside the cat (inner cylinder)?* ** *The mouse pulls the cats tail?* On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Rob Dingemans manonbrid...@aim.com mailto:manonbrid...@aim.com wrote: What if the vessel is acting as a kind of capacitor and in conjunction with the coil creates the ideal oscillation circuit? Who knows, but if my memory serves me right, then Andrea hinted something similar. Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in high thermal contact with the cylinder. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a thermo-chemical modification of the surface to create the NAEs in high number on the inner textured Ni surface. Then, cold weld one end of the cylinder closed. Calculate the amount of metal hydride needed to release the desired pressure of H2 into the cylinder when it is heated and put this powder inside the cylinder. Cold weld seal the second end closed. Viola! You have a hotCat reactor core. Rossi has also described his cat and mouse where the mouse was added to enhance the performance of the hotCat. An easy speculation for this would be that he could take some of his previous Rossi micro-Ni + catalyst powder and add that as well to the hotCat as a means to help the reaction begin from a lower temperature. I believe the cylindrical outer heaters are just resistor coils embedded in a high thermal conductivity ceramic. Comments?
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Dennis, I do not believe a process of continuous creation and destruction of sites would be stable and would result in stable production of energy, The creation and destruction processes are independent of each other. Just by chance, one would get the upper hand over the other, resulting in unstable production. In any case, Rossi says he treats the Ni to a special treatment BEFORE heat is produced. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 10:19 AM, DJ Cravens wrote: He doesn't have to have constant stable sites. Perhaps instead it is a constant creation of sites. For example (there must be many), he could be creating and then creating sites with something like Nickel carbonyl that would could create sites and the CO then be allowed to react again. However, it would take the right kind of kinetics- I am not sure carbonyl would allow for the correct temp cycles. D2 CC: stor...@ix.netcom.com From: stor...@ix.netcom.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:42:32 -0600 Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
This is the dynamic NAE theory where ideally NAEs are formed and destroyed at a constant rate. But the Dynamic NAEs are centered on the nickel powder as a nucleating site. The Nickel powder must be evenly distributed to keep the heat production balanced. This is important, because this heat is the mechanism that produces the Dynamic NAEs in the first place. If the temperature of the reaction is kept close to constant, the production of NAE sites will remain relatively constant. If the heat increases too much, more NAE’s are produced in a positive feedback mode and the reactor melts down. If NAE’s were fixed in number, when the temperature increased, the NAEs would simply destroy themselves with the increase in heat level and the reaction would stop without melting the reactor down. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:19 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote: He doesn't have to have constant stable sites. Perhaps instead it is a constant creation of sites. For example (there must be many), he could be creating and then creating sites with something like Nickel carbonyl that would could create sites and the CO then be allowed to react again. However, it would take the right kind of kinetics- I am not sure carbonyl would allow for the correct temp cycles. D2 -- CC: stor...@ix.netcom.com From: stor...@ix.netcom.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:42:32 -0600 Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
If there is carbonyl nickel inside the hot-cat, a leakage will be extremely dangerous. Tetra carbonyl nickel is known as liquid death. . On Wed, 29 May 2013 10:19:03 -0600, DJ Cravens wrote: He doesn't have to have constant stable sites. Perhaps instead it is a constant creation of sites. For example (there must be many), he could be creating and then creating sites with something like Nickel carbonyl that would could create sites and the CO then be allowed to react again. However, it would take the right kind of kinetics- I am not sure carbonyl would allow for the correct temp cycles. D2 - CC: stor...@ix.netcom.com From: stor...@ix.netcom.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:42:32 -0600 Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:29:30 AM I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. The Penon report (Aug 2012 -- the first hotcat radiative test) http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf says about (what is now the inner) cylinder : The module is consists of an assembly of four components, plus the active charge (Nickel and catalyzer) and a tablet which acts as a hydrogen reserve. Tablet and charge masses are not known. The technology is probably identical, though the charge is now in the central cylinder. On page 4 there's a picture of a ceramic/resistor assembly. The ceramic IS mostly solid .. page 5 shows an end-view. The ceramic DOES seem to fit pretty tightly between the cylinders. In that version it's not at all clear where the charge fits in. As I posted earlier the bands on the meltdown picture are similar to the cogs on the ceramic, and may represent different conductivity (positive or negative, depending on your belief). The nickel powder? ... no idea. Where is the thermalization? Probably in the wall of the inner cylinder ... which will be filled with back-body radiation. Maybe it's Schrodinger powder ... a superposition of melted and unmelted powder, and Rossi has somehow rigged the system so that the cat always turns up live.
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
From: Rob Dingemans manonbrid...@aim.com Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:19:03 AM What if the vessel is acting as a kind of capacitor and in conjunction with the coil creates the ideal oscillation circuit? That's just like the (Biblical) Arc of the Covenant. A wood (cedar) insulator, with gold foil on each side .. and very clear instructions not to go near it.
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction... so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. * It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. * 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in high thermal contact with the cylinder. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a thermo-chemical modification of the surface to create the NAEs in high number on the inner textured Ni surface. Then, cold weld one end of the cylinder closed. Calculate the amount of metal hydride needed to release the desired pressure of H2 into the cylinder when it is heated and put this powder inside the cylinder. Cold weld seal the second end closed. Viola! You have a hotCat reactor core. Rossi has also described his cat and mouse where the mouse was added to enhance the performance of the hotCat. An easy speculation for this would be that he could take some of his previous Rossi micro-Ni + catalyst powder and add that as well to the hotCat as a means to help the reaction begin from a lower temperature. I believe the cylindrical outer heaters are just resistor coils embedded in a high thermal conductivity ceramic. Comments?
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in high thermal contact with the cylinder. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a thermo
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. * It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. * 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
If the reactor is entangled globally as indicated in nanoplasmonic theory, heat transfer would be isothermal based on super fluidic heat transfer. The hydrogen would be the same temperature as the powder. and so would the walls of the inner reactor tube. The secret sauce may be used to produce dynamic NAE formation through the creation of nanoparticle strings. Alkali metals will serve this function in the 500C to 1500C heat range. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. ** ** Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. - We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. - When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. - It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. - 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron* *** Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in *high thermal contact with the cylinder*. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a thermo-chemical modification of the surface to create the NAEs in high number on the inner textured Ni surface. ** ** Then, cold weld one end of the cylinder closed. Calculate the amount of metal hydride needed to release the desired pressure of H2 into the cylinder when it is heated and put this powder inside the cylinder. Cold weld seal the second end closed. Viola! You have a hotCat reactor core.* *** ** ** Rossi has also described his cat and mouse where the mouse was added to enhance the performance of the hotCat. An easy speculation for this would be that he could take some of his previous Rossi micro-Ni + catalyst powder and add that as well to the hotCat as a means to help the reaction begin from a lower temperature. ** ** I believe
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Ed, Is sintering necessarily bad? Could the sintering have also occurred to a lesser scale on the earlier ecat and actually be part of the NAE formation? Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction... so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. * It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. * 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. ** ** Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. **· **We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. **· **When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I wrote: That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. I mean the Double Structured (DS) cathodes. Those things were crammed full of Pd black, according to McKubre. I think he said that. Cramming them full ensured good contact with the walls. The walls were also Pd, used as a hydrogen filter. Some people suspected the Pd in the wall was reacting, along with the Pd black. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Fran, I have heated Ni many times and did not observe the sintering to produce LENR. It only creats a brick of material. Sintering can be prevented if the surface is partly oxidized or covered with a compound. I suspect Rossi has created a compound containing NI on the surface that forms the gaps I claim are important. If this is the case, the powder probably will not sinter. Unfortunately, we can only guess. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, Is sintering necessarily bad? Could the sintering have also occurred to a lesser scale on the earlier ecat and actually be part of the NAE formation? Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
In the Arata experiment, when the powder melted, the reaction stopped. In dynamic NAE creation, when the NAE is destroyed, new NAEs take its place and the cycle is constant. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. I mean the Double Structured (DS) cathodes. Those things were crammed full of Pd black, according to McKubre. I think he said that. Cramming them full ensured good contact with the walls. The walls were also Pd, used as a hydrogen filter. Some people suspected the Pd in the wall was reacting, along with the Pd black. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. · We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. · When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. · We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. · When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html. You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction. That's not a fact I know. _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.** ** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Amaud, I have no doubt EM stimulation will enhance the LENR reaction. The only question is whether Rossi is successfully applying such stimulation. Based on the design of the hot-e-Cat, I do not see any indication of EM being applied. The suggestion hat it is being created in the black box is pure guess. Rossi is an engineer. Engineers try to make their devices as efficient as possible. This design is not efficient for applying EM of any frequency. Therefore, I doubt this is being done here. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html . You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction. That’s not a fact I know. From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. *Why such a large cylinder?* - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. -mark From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
With such a small amount of powder involved, a supercharge heat transfer mechanism must be in play. I say that the system is super fluidic. There are pictures of the inside of the tube and it looks smooth. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:32 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. **Why such a large cylinder?** ** ** - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. ** ** -mark ** ** *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** If the powder sinters, I suppose: ** ** That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. ** ** That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. ** ** Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. ** ** I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed ** **
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.* *** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.** ** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible . The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
They stated that the chemical was potassium carbide or some other carbon potassium combo. Carbon will also make nana-particles when the compound vaporizes. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
K2CO3 ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:49 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat They stated that the chemical was potassium carbide or some other carbon potassium combo. Carbon will also make nana-particles when the compound vaporizes. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
OK, if you ask me to guess, I suspect the black box applies a variable power to the resistors in an effort to achieve the best average temperature for producing power without run away occurring. Dave is attempting to determine this waveform using his SPICE method. This variation needs to match the thermal impedance of the device. Rossi wants to keep this secret and also generate a distraction for people with excessive imagination. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I think that compound was also used in the high school reactor. They claim a COP of 4. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: K2CO3 ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:49 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** They stated that the chemical was potassium carbide or some other carbon potassium combo. Carbon will also make nana-particles when the compound vaporizes. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. ** ** How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. ** ** Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. ** ** Ed Storms ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. ** ** Ed Storms ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
So, are we are suggesting instead a much thinner layer [.3g] spread over the entire inner surface of the reactor only? Or a foaming fixation that makes the nickel powder expand to fill the cavity ? From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:33 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. *Why such a large cylinder?* - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. -mark From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
There are two ways to form a NAE: fixed of dynamic. If a fixed NAE cannot exist at 2000C, then the NAE must be dynamic On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.* *** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
The SCRs will give a giant di/dt but only once per cycle of the mains. From: Arnaud Kodeck [mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:34 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bemailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.commailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction... so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Hi Axil, If the pixs are with powder could you send me the link. Thanks Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:36 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat With such a small amount of powder involved, a supercharge heat transfer mechanism must be in play. I say that the system is super fluidic. There are pictures of the inside of the tube and it looks smooth. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:32 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netmailto:zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. *Why such a large cylinder?* - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. -mark From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.commailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On May 29, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Axil Axil wrote: There are two ways to form a NAE: fixed of dynamic. If a fixed NAE cannot exist at 2000C, then the NAE must be dynamic First of all, 2000° is above the melting point of Ni and stainless steel. Once either melted, the reaction would stop regardless of your conclusion. Second, why do you think the NAE is not stable at the temperatures used by Rossi? Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
EM stimulation was discussed at length last week. Here is a summary: There is evidence and statements from Rossi that RF was used *at one time*, but we have NO evidence of that with the current design. The consensus last week was that the internal stainless steel cylinder is a Faraday cage, shielding the interior of the reactor from any EM fields beyond a few hundred Hz; perhaps much less. So this is probably NOT very likely with the new design. The non-magnetic (austenitic) 310 stainless steel WILL allow a static or VLF mag-field thru. This is probably the only remaining possibility for any kind of external 'field' influence. The magnetic field from the resistance heaters would penetrate the stainless steel. however, eddy currents from oscillating mag-flds would limit that influence to very low frequency; the PWM control would result in an ON/OFF static fld at the same duty cycle as is applied to the heaters. If a mag-fld 'assist' is being used, it would certainly explain the *NEED* for continued electrical power. If heat is ALL that is necessary to start and maintain the reaction, then the simplest design would use the suggestion that it be run in positive feedback mode and use a modulated heat extraction design to keep the temp within operating levels. So a fld assist does explain the added complexity and need for continued wall-socket power. -Mark Iverson From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:31 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, I have no doubt EM stimulation will enhance the LENR reaction. The only question is whether Rossi is successfully applying such stimulation. Based on the design of the hot-e-Cat, I do not see any indication of EM being applied. The suggestion hat it is being created in the black box is pure guess. Rossi is an engineer. Engineers try to make their devices as efficient as possible. This design is not efficient for applying EM of any frequency. Therefore, I doubt this is being done here. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html. You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction. That's not a fact I know. _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
At 2000C the clustering of potassium is large enough to exclude the requirement that nickel must nucleate the NAE. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Axil Axil wrote: There are two ways to form a NAE: fixed of dynamic. If a fixed NAE cannot exist at 2000C, then the NAE must be dynamic First of all, 2000° is above the melting point of Ni and stainless steel. Once either melted, the reaction would stop regardless of your conclusion. Second, why do you think the NAE is not stable at the temperatures used by Rossi? Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
The hydrogen and the molecular clusters that it contains are part of the heat producing activity. The hydrogen must be coherent, entangled and a super fluid. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: So, are we are suggesting instead a much thinner layer [.3g] spread over the entire inner surface of the reactor only? Or a foaming fixation that makes the nickel powder expand to fill the cavity ? ** ** *From:* MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:33 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. **Why such a large cylinder?** ** ** - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. ** ** -mark ** ** *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com jedrothw...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** If the powder sinters, I suppose: ** ** That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. ** ** That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. ** ** Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. ** ** I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed ** **
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I agree, the clues do not look good for RF. Rossi must have given up on RF when he went to the Cat and Mouse design. You can’t have everything Cat, Mouse and RF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:05 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: EM stimulation was discussed at length last week. Here is a summary: ** ** There is evidence and statements from Rossi that RF was used **at one time **, but we have NO evidence of that with the current design. ** ** The consensus last week was that the internal stainless steel cylinder is a Faraday cage, shielding the interior of the reactor from any EM fields beyond a few hundred Hz; perhaps much less. So this is probably NOT very likely with the new design. ** ** The non-magnetic (austenitic) 310 stainless steel WILL allow a static or VLF mag-field thru. This is probably the only remaining possibility for any kind of external ‘field’ influence. The magnetic field from the resistance heaters would penetrate the stainless steel… however, eddy currents from oscillating mag-flds would limit that influence to very low frequency; the PWM control would result in an ON/OFF static fld at the same duty cycle as is applied to the heaters. ** ** If a mag-fld ‘assist’ is being used, it would certainly explain the **NEED ** for continued electrical power. If heat is ALL that is necessary to start and maintain the reaction, then the simplest design would use the suggestion that it be run in positive feedback mode and use a modulated heat extraction design to keep the temp within operating levels. So a fld assist does explain the added complexity and need for continued wall-socket power. ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:31 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Amaud, I have no doubt EM stimulation will enhance the LENR reaction. The only question is whether Rossi is successfully applying such stimulation. Based on the design of the hot-e-Cat, I do not see any indication of EM being applied. The suggestion hat it is being created in the black box is pure guess. Rossi is an engineer. Engineers try to make their devices as efficient as possible. This design is not efficient for applying EM of any frequency. Therefore, I doubt this is being done here. ** ** ** ** ** ** Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html. You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction.*** * That’s not a fact I know. -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Hi Axil, If the pixs are with powder could you send me the link.*** * Thanks Fran ** ** *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:36 PM *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** With such a small amount of powder involved, a supercharge heat transfer mechanism must be in play. I say that the system is super fluidic. There are pictures of the inside of the tube and it looks smooth. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:32 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. **Why such a large cylinder?** - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. -mark *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed ** **
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf On p. 6. Very revealing!! - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Mark, according to my understanding, ANY material can be made nuclear active as long as H+ can dissolve in the material. The challenge is to know what change has to occur too create the NAE. Each theory suggests a different change. Simply making alloys is a waste of time unless this additional step is understood and implemented. Very little progress has been made because people are searching for the wrong variable. Until the method to create the NAE is discovered, no material will produce a reliable nuclear reaction. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 3:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson
RE: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Hi Fran, Plenty of evidence that LENR processes, if conditions are right, produce a lot of heat very quickly, so heat transfer is a major design requirement, thus, maximizing surface area is one way to achieve this requirement; much thinner layer coated on inner wall. 99% of interior volume empty. Could be that even Rossi's designs are not optimal and that even more E/higher temps are possible. Foaming fixation probably would have the thermal conductivity of the 'foam', which doesn't seem like would be hi enough. -Mark From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat So, are we are suggesting instead a much thinner layer [.3g] spread over the entire inner surface of the reactor only? Or a foaming fixation that makes the nickel powder expand to fill the cavity ? From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:33 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. *Why such a large cylinder?* - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. -mark From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
no, no, no...cheese power requires a cheese sauce! ;-) Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I wrote: http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf On p. 6. Very revealing!! Oops. Cancel. Not so revealing. That's just putty. I didn't think Andrea would reveal so much. He is not Nature Unveiling Herself Before Science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_Nature_se_d%C3%A9voilant_a_la_Science,_Mus%C3%A9e_d%27Orsay,_photo_by_emilee_rader_1.jpg - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Hmmm when the nickel starts to melt would bubbles of H2 form within the nickel? Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: So, are we are suggesting instead a much thinner layer [.3g] spread over the entire inner surface of the reactor only? Or a foaming fixation that makes the nickel powder expand to fill the cavity ? ** ** *From:* MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:33 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. **Why such a large cylinder?** ** ** - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. ** ** -mark ** ** *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com jedrothw...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** If the powder sinters, I suppose: ** ** That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. ** ** That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. ** ** Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. ** ** I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed ** **
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson I know that adding copper to nickel raises the melting point a little. Harry
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Harry, I suggest you consult the literature. Addition of Cu LOWERS the mp of Ni. Ni and Cu form a continuous soild solution. The melting point is close to being linear between 1083° and 1453°, the mp of Ni. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson I know that adding copper to nickel raises the melting point a little. Harry
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Really? I did consult the literature a few weeks ago. My memory is playing tricks on me. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Harry, I suggest you consult the literature. Addition of Cu LOWERS the mp of Ni. Ni and Cu form a continuous soild solution. The melting point is close to being linear between 1083° and 1453°, the mp of Ni. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson I know that adding copper to nickel raises the melting point a little. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about HotCat
-Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. Look no further than the hydride, but beware.Nickel hydride has a number of specialized meanings in metallurgy - one of which is a true alloy made by combining nickel and a small amount of hydrogen under pressure. Once alloyed properly, the proton does not come out of this alloy before it is melted. If there is about one hydrogen atom absorbed for every fourteen nickel atoms, the properties are very different from common NiH (stoichiometric) or anything in between. Here is a picture of the FCC crystal, which represents possibly the best way that nickel reacts gainfully to produce a 300 eV photon. There are fourteen Ni atoms and the crystal will absorb only one proton. More hydrogen than one converts the structure to another phase. http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki/files/50/200px-FCC_crystal_structure.sv g.png Nickel hydride with optimum hydrogen content is harder, stronger and more resistant to sintering at the expense of ductility. Normally, nickel is the face-centered cubic or FCC structure called alpha-nickel. As soon as anything more disruptive than a single proton alloys with it, it tends to go into the beta-phase, which has a different crystal structure. http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/uploads/RTEmagicC_AnnealingPaperClips -BCC_02.png.png Hydrogen atoms bond strongly with any nickel surface (either alpha or beta) so for now, we are only talking about crystal properties and phases for fully alloyed hydrides. Bottom line: In this alternative interpretation of Millsean hydrogen deep redundancy (to below ground state) - it can happen several ways - one of which is when a proton is lodged in the center of a true alpha-nickel FCC crystal. That does not happen unless the nickel alloy is specially made with only a lesser amount of hydrogen being absorbed (few parts per thousand by mass). However, this can happen inadvertently if nickel is aged under pressure in hydrogen for an extended time period (weeks). If one is very lucky and gets it right... or else if one knows where to buy the right hydrided alloy - bingo. (perhaps it is made by a dwarf who lives in the cellar in an Italian castle :) Jones
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
As mentioned in a previous thread, it may be possible for the stainless cell to get hotter than the Ni, particularly if the inner coating is thin. If the heat is conveyed from the NAE via photons, the photons could be absorbed in the 3mm thick stainless cell rather than in the thin Ni coating. If the reaction flashed, it could cause a meltdown that wouldn't or maybe couldn't happen if the transport was phonons. Think about a thermonuclear device where a fission fuse creates X-rays which are focussed on the fusion pit to compress it. The photonic compression occurs before the fission reaction blows the apparatus apart. A rapid Ni-H LENR could cause a tremendous photon flash that could melt the SS cell. However, there is only anecdotal evidence of a meltdown was caused by a Ni-H LENR. If the reactor over-heats slowly from photons (or anything else), then it is likely that the reaction will self-extinguish as the NAE is destroyed at a temperature long before a melting of Ni or the SS would happen. In another speculation, Rossi said that he had tried other catalysts but had not found one that was as high performance as his original catalyst. However, one of those other catalysts may have been higher temperature but lower COP. Rossi may have switched catalysts to get to the higher temperature operation. I am experimenting with Fe nanopowder that I believe may have been Rossi's original catalyst. His alternative may be zirconia nanopowder. In either case, I believe the nanopowder is not just mixed in - it is thermo-chemically processed after being mixed on a nanoscale with the micro-Ni to create the NAE. Zirconia is a more durable oxide that may remain in a useful nano form on Ni to a higher temperature. Think of the nano-particles, partly oxidized, as nano-wedges to create cracks. Bob On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Harry, I suggest you consult the literature. Addition of Cu LOWERS the mp of Ni. Ni and Cu form a continuous soild solution. The melting point is close to being linear between 1083° and 1453°, the mp of Ni. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson I know that adding copper to nickel raises the melting point a little. Harry
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation
If plenty of power is available, and stringent RF interference specs don't need to be met, the simple wires will work fine. But I must admit an engineer would always use a coax for such a task. But maybe not an engineer who is trying to obsfucate On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible ... The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. *From:*Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? *From:*Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB band
Whoops! Hit the send button instead of spell check. ... obfuscate things, hide IP. Might take a chance at spilling some CB band junk just to mislead casual observation. Jeez, this sounds like we're beating the fraud horse. No, no, it's back to how does he stimulate/control ECat. Ol' Bab On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible ... The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE.
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comwrote: - We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. The ends were cone-shaped AISI 316 steel caps that were hot-hammered into the ends. I don't think they were welded. - When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. I don't think any nickel charge came out when they opened the device. Apparently the nickel charge was carried in one or more 33 mm x 3 mm cylinders, which were opened and the contents weighed. If the Hot-Cat HT is anything like the device tested in August 2012, the inside looks like the image shown on page 6 of [1]. Notice that there is putty sealant that does produce a kind of powder. [1] http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Can you expand upon this thought? Eric
RE: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
The small bit of powder that came out when the reactor was cut open was likely the hydride that, when heated, pressurized the reactor with H2 gas… From: Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:17 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. The ends were cone-shaped AISI 316 steel caps that were hot-hammered into the ends. I don't think they were welded. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. I don't think any nickel charge came out when they opened the device. Apparently the nickel charge was carried in one or more 33 mm x 3 mm cylinders, which were opened and the contents weighed. If the Hot-Cat HT is anything like the device tested in August 2012, the inside looks like the image shown on page 6 of [1]. Notice that there is putty sealant that does produce a kind of powder. [1] http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf